.... any more than going to a concert or a sporting event is only about the money.

This is a general response to some of the threads below that seem to focus on the 'fuck for bucks' part and the envelope to the apparent exclusion of everything else.

As I see it, once you have agreed to pay for a service - whether entertainment, a meal, a provider or some other profession - then it becomes about the quality of the service.

I would hope that I can connect with the doctors I see as well as I connect with many of the ladies I meet.

And when it doesn't work I don't go back - doctor, lawyer, restaurant or lady.

MH50

For the providers, it is about the money. It is what most of them do for a living. Without the money, they wouldn't let you in their pants.
It may not be about money for you, but to the providers it is. Just ask one of them for a freebie, and you will see I am right.

Like in sales, its better to have repeat business.  Ladies run the risk of danger everytime they start up with somebody new.  In my job renewals are easier than the new sale.  Much the same with a client base who repeats......

Like in sales, its better to have repeat business.  Ladies run the risk of danger everytime they start up with somebody new.  In my job renewals are easier than the new sale.  Much the same with a client base who repeats......

I know you might of thought a gangbang would occur if you used your member name but I always wonder who's behind an alias.

Most of the ladies here do have friends they see on a regular basis and care very much about them. I enjoy seeing the same people over and over again. I have seen friends for years and can tell you their wifes name and all their childrens names. We have spent so many years together that at times i'm considered the other women by them. We have laughed, cried and worked out many problems together.

I am not just a service but a caring human being who has her guard down and her front door open for new friends. Yes the envelope get's you your seat at the concert but your interest in more than a service gets you a backstage pass and a glimpse into a more private me.

Not everyone is interested in any more than dropping the envelope and moving on to the next mail slot. There are as many addresses as you could possibly want to visit here on TER and some plan to do just that.

Kisses Haley

So how many visits does it take for you before you develop feelings for the customer ?

Well I can tell you I have seen a lady 3 times this year and it gets better each time....

but stays that way, in many cases, ONLY is the gentleman wants it that way and is simply looking for the immediate gratification. So many of these visits, as has been stated, turn into friendships and last for years.

It is unfortunate that some simply look at a provider as a service instead of a woman. Yes, it's a business ... no doubt. Yes, there's a financial involvement. But, if there is a repeat visit, and a somewhat regular arrangement, think of what can develop (of course, not with everyone though).

I see very UTR ladies, and a very high level lady when she visits this way, so don't let the 1 review of mine mislead you into thinking I'm a newbie. But,you said, to paraphrase ... "ask for a freebie and see what happens." Well, I've never asked, but have enjoyed ... many extra "off-the-clock" hours, dinners, and my high level friend took me to see "Mama Mia" in NY, front row center. Yes, she receives an envelope, but what I receive is far more ... a frienship without the drama.

Your statement that it's all about the money is not totally accurate and a generalization that has no basis in fact. Perhaps the ladies you see are that way, but TER has a multitude of real women who, although they accept the envelope, can return more to a gentleman than just a body. Some of us like that ... me included.

But will you repeat with me for free?

I appreciate your comments, Haley.
Nonetheless, unless you are giving freebies to your customers the envelope is a necessity.
I understand that some providers have the attitude that the envelope is secondary, and performance is primary, and that is to be commended. Unfortunately, that is not the reality with most.
It can be said in a thread for public consumption, but not in the mirror.

I don't think any provider could last too long at this work unless there was some passion in her for it.

Hobbyist:  Ask yourself if your job is just about the money?

If you answer yes, then you have my condolences.

Fortunately, I find some satisfaction in my job, but I still wouldn't do it if I didn't get a paycheck.

you may have since you use it a lot. in this context it runs like this:

either there are freebies or it is all about the envelope.

the reason this is a false argument is that the world is much more subtle than this statement.

sure the envelope permits an encounter to occur but the quality of that encounter may be heightened by chemistry, intangibles and factors that evade the unsubtle mind that sees the world in black and white and is color blind to the possibilities that that chemistry or simply being human permits. this is what "all about the envelope" completely misses and why your argument is at its core, rotten.

was what I needed to hear.

There is always some sort of give and take. It might be taking somebody out to a nice dinner, it could be a LTR.

The ladies here make it easy be spelling everything out and by being discreet.

I am very happy they do. They have made my life very, very enjoyable.

You admitted the envelope permits the encounter. Nuff said! I rest my case!

your favorite restaurant that treats you well, does it still present a bill to you at the end of the meal....of course, and if you're rude to the staff you know what happens. SO why are you aliases trying to put down the people trying to see you have a good time.
In the civie world there are many beautiful women that no matter what you do will not give you the time of day. I for one appreciate the fact that for some financial assistance these ladies here will make me more comfortable and provide better sex than most civie girls.

No you can not repeat for free but you don't have to pay my rent or car payment neither do you have to feed and cloathe me. I promise I won't make little ones that you will have to take care of for at least 18 years. There are no strings so you may leave when you damn well please and I promise not to having PMS when you arrive.

I will be honest about whatever you ask me to be honest about. Please don't divulge any personal information you don't want shared between the two of us. I am thoughtful and will take an interest if given the opportunity to do so. I am your friend and do want to hear from you but understand that you may want to see others something a wife will never understand. Will I miss you when our time has run it's course ? Hell yes but will I call or bother you..Never

Seems like you have a choice here that looks pretty good to me. Once the emotions are on the table and you peel back the real you who really thinks about that white envelope. It's just a momentary slip in time that passes ever so quickly.

Kisses Haley

didn't mention how much FUN guys have when they are with you.

since you pretend that your argument is valid and that your nonexistent case can be rested even as it is unmade.

i don't do my job for free. if i only did my job for the money it wouldn't be worth doing. occasionally someone can get my attention with an interesting problem and i'll do a little extra, maybe some OTC. that (as mr fisher has pointed out below) is a concrete example why your argument is bogus.

the envelope permits the encounter but the quality of the encounter transcends the envelope and its contents. so if you still think it is all about the contents of the envelope.... well i feel sorry for you.

when a Fav lady does this...  it's not about the envolupe.  She's already got that.  I have Favs that we just let things run it's course...  sometimes considerably beyond a set time.  They know my name, my other hobbies & interests...  and I know theirs.  
skb

Please publish a list of providers who will see you WITHOUT the envelope. This I gotta see.
I would love to see a show of hands of providers who will participate in the hobby without the envelope. This I gotta see.

Notice I did not ask for a list of providers who performed AFTER the envelope. I already know that! Get it now?

everyone.  Both of you have had your say.  Anything posted on this track after this will be pulled.

I have never been a provider (O if only I were irresistible to women), but I am a physician.  My income as a physician always came from a Dean and is tied more to my research than to my clinical practice since I received millions in NIH funding and coud earn nothing like that as a geriatrician/internist.  

I see patients.  I become attached to them.  When one suffers, I suffer; when one dies, I often lose a friend.  Do patients pay? No, but their insurance does.  I need the money I earn.  But that does not detract from the deep feelings I have for my patients.  I berlieve I am like a good provider.  She gets paid because she did not inherit millions nor win a Power Ball pay off like I get paid, but she provides intimate loving service like I do.

I know physicians who view their patients as pains in the neck and distractions, I am sure there are providers who feel that way about their clients, but those physicians are not excellent and I would bet beither are those providers.

.... it's like a religious war but with a difference.

someone once said that a religious war is like an argument over which party had the superior imaginary friend. but this topic is more like a dispute between those with imagination and those without that happy burden.

reality is a good thing, don't get me wrong. but when you start to oversimplify reality to the point that your view is too simple to be real  you get into trouble. this is what may be happening with some of the "it's only the envelope" folks. it is a delusionally simple view of the business.

nevertheless they can see that those of us on both sides of the client-provider relationship who have the wit and imagination to see beyond a transaction involving $s for Os are enjoying a reality that they can't share.

it is a very safe way to play this game. you adopt the John's Creed: "it's only pay for play and no one should give the illusion of giving a damn". you pay your cash take your shot(s) and go home happy.

but you don't get greater rewards without assuming greater risks. that is what some won't or can't get.

i am sure that when you are engaged with your patients on a personal level that your service improves. i see the same thing in my own practice. whether it is this P4P business, medical or other professional practice, it's just better when there is at least the illusion or reality of genuine caring on both sides. that is no delusion.

of course one must take care it doesn't go too far and create some damage as a result of forgetting that there is a service business involved. but that is something one can be either grown up enough to handle, or not. it's everybody's choice. i've made mine and i'm damn happy with it so far.

ok to some it IS just about the money, lets face it.
To some it IS just about a NSA sex encounter.
To some its not either of those.
we all know what brings us here, what we seek and what we hope to find.
No there are no freebies here, and it sounds as though thats a bug up someones asss because they have to pay. Get over it.
You don't eat out for free either that doesn't make that restaurant less than a good experience. Nothing in life is free. Get over it.
I don't see any point in defending why I am here and what I bring into the game.
It appears you would rather bitch about everything you don't like than be happy with whatyou can get here.

Sometimes the chemistry, the experience and the connection overrides the fact that it is basically a business transaction.

I agree with the previous point its not all about the money.

The reason this is a valid point is that there are times when it is not about the envelope so I give the envelope back and try to as politely as possible giving whatever circumstances to say "scoot".

xo Lisa

www.lisareal.com

a dirty little slut that likes to get a good pounding and take my cum.  I have all sorts of fantasies about it actually which is why I hobby.  I guess non of my fantasies involve the escort being a girlfriend or wife.  I have that already so I am looking for more than that.  

I think you can also do a lot of men a disservice when you oversimplify the motivations of other people.  This is true for both sides of the debate obviously as you have stated.  

Just because you are in a GFE fantasy with the escort does not mean that the feeling is mutual.  Nor because you extend this GFE fantasy on these boards does it imply you are risking more emotionally than the "stick it in and leave" man. And it does not mean you receive more in return from the escort or that you are more nuanced and evolved in your affairs with escorts.  

As long as we are clean and respectful of the gals boundaries I think they are fine with being treated like a filthy cum whore.  It is a fantasy after all and we pay for that consideration.

I think for me I simply object to the "ass kissing" aspect of some posts.  Not because men who do it ARE pussies but because these men SOUND like pussies.  I think there is a distinction there.  

This is a debate involving a lot of men on this board.  I feel like I am in the minority in my opinions.  But I post them nevertheless because we are all anonymous anyways so what the hell.  

I hope the gals recognize my posts are not meant to slander their work (sex) and that I have the utmost thanks for the gals who have serviced me well.  

TER is fun for me because I get to talk about fucking girls besides my wife.  And I get to act out fantasies with the escorts I would never do with my wife.  Not out of respect for my wife but really out of fear of being seen as a person with a perverted sense of view.  Which I am pretty sure I have.  It actually is a show of trust sometimes to really tell some escorts what you really really want.  I have come to a place in my life where I am brutally honest about myself because I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  I have said this before... I like young hot and compliant little whores.  That is my fantasy.

i respect your POV and the fact that you have no need to hide behind an alias.

some times i like it rough and dirty. but i also like it soft and sweet. sometimes i like to fight and then "kiss and make up". i like to start sweet and end in a PSE romp. i like to get (safely) messy with fluids. i like to play many roles.

the GFE fantasy is just that. it gets beyond that at the ladies invitation as far as i am concerned. there are 1 or 2 i count as friends and have _exchanged_ favors that have nothing to do with the P4P business.  

certainly anything that can be stated in a post is an oversimplification of reality, motives. i think that the "it's just the envelop" folks dish out a huge amount of oversimplification and need to see some coming back at them, especialy the alias boyz. so i oversimplify to hold up a mirror. turn about is fair play.

you may theorize that the more "nuanced" approach doesn't get more, but you can't know that unless you've done the experiment. i've done my experiment and know what works for me.

your objections to some of the "ass kissing" posts? why should anyone else care as long as you don't make that into some personal attack on a poster? likely this whole controversy started with someone on one side or the other launching a personal attack, there was a counter, groups were formed.... at that point it becomes hard to tell the difference between a discussion board and the monkey/proto-hominid scene at the start of 2001.

BTW you don't sound _so_ perverted to me. i have no problem with you. (sarcastic humor alert) it's just those posts from little boyz hiding behind their pansy assed alias skirts i object to.

I think we all can agree that all guys know plenty of beautiful women who won't have sex with us no matter how much game you have or money, charm or whatever. They just won't give it up. Frustrating enough, we've all ended up here for any # of reasons.

So here's the great idea, let's insult and harass the few ladies that are inclined to let us have a shot with them, albeit for $, but they will treat us right if we treat them right. hmmmmm I wonder are some guys here that dumb as to try to annoy and goad these fine ladies to the point that they consider quiting this profession.

In civie world just as here you pay for service and acting like an ass is more often going to get you bad service or as many a sign says...we reserve the right to refuse service.

Yes these women are paid and so is your Doctor or landscaper, would they work for free. NO! But that doesn't mean they don't care about you but only your money. Why do some hobbyists equate this interaction as such a non caring one. If you get so little out of this hobby....run, don't walk to the sports store and find something else you actually enjoy.

I have OTC relationships with a few of the ladies I've met in this business. One I even brought a puppy with, and yes when it comes to sex I still pay them, as it is their line of work. I'm friends with my mechanic and his family comes over for BBQ's but when he works on my car I still pay him too.

I feel bad for those of you unable to relax your feelings about it being a paid act and really get to know and enjoy the time you spend with a good provider as they can provide a lot more than sex.

Even though my favorite and I are friends, she still indulges my fantasies and yes, one is her being my little slut and truth be told it's also something that turns her on.

Pissing in a gals mouth is about as far as I go.

that is not happening with my wife lol.

more like she pisses on me all day everyday lol!

And you wonder why I see escorts....

Georgebenson,
            I totally understand where your coming from with your fantasies and I doubt you look for the GFE and pick this provider for your nasty fantasies but to call other guys names for being raised to respect all women (young, old, fat, skinny,kinky ect.)is not your place. you have your taste and we have ours we don't bash you so you shouln't bash us.

PS.Do you beat your wife? Just courious!

Yes my well paying job is ALL about the money, without the money I wouldn't do it. My satisfaction with my job comes from opening up my envelope and see my ridiculous pay for what I do.

The sex business is ALL about the money because she wouldn't fuck you for free. The best orgasm she gets is when she opens up the envelope and see all the green!

but if you find a provider freely willing and able to accomodate you, that's between you and her. it is none of my damn business.

likewise if i find a provider with whom i want to play the adoration game, it's nobody else's damn business.

it is easier to play my game on a discussion board, that's all.

i am completely serious in asking - who and what helped shape your outlook. this needs to be taught to both women and men.

certainly this is not a life view for everyone but it is an important one that should be recognized and accepted by society. i applaud you as - dare i say it? - a perfect woman

It's only all about the envelope if you, the hobbyist, make it that way.

WIthout even thinking hard I can remember about 6 freebies from ladies with whom I was a regular and with whom I had a great rapport.

And that doesn't count all the other gifts, meals and goodies that providers have provided me. It really is delightful to have a lady ask you to stay for a meal and then cook for you.

But to each his own.

MH50

I described the behavior I objected to in terms that might piss some off but I never made it personal.  It was a point of view as opposed to a personal attack.  As I said there is a distinction.  
As as matter of fact I have respect for all women. And If I bash certain actions by some men it is my comment to the posts and not a direct comment about the character of any particular posters.  And I am pretty careful in my posts to try to stay away from any personal attacks.  But with the written words on a hooker review site it is hard to deduce true intent so if I have offended you it was not meant to be a personal assault on anyone's character or demeanor.  

And about my wife... No I do not beat my wife.  What kind of stupid question is that?  This seems to be a sneaky way of trying to put me down and it is frankly stupid and it promotes the very actions you accused me of in your post to me.  jeez.  My wife can probably kick my ass, she is in totally good shape.  Probably kick your ass too as a matter of fact.  She takes self defense classes and stuff.