(see link)

Anyone who writes a blanket statement like this loses credibility with me:

"All prostitution causes harm to women."



-- Modified on 11/8/2003 10:58:54 PM

What rock did that bunch crawl out from under. I bet they believe that masterbation will cause blindness also. People that narrow minded, judgementle & stupid should not be allowed to put a pen to paper much less have it published. I wish there was some kind of light that would kill people like that.

I think that I would never care to know the people who wrote that drivel!  I am curious as to who they represent and why they were compelled to do this "study."  I think that it sounds like their research was mostly comprised of watching those awful "Angel-Hollywood Hooker" movies that came out in the 80's and reading those fictional books, published by some religious group, about teenage runaways who turned to prostitution and drugs, but are "saved" in the end by finding God.

-- Modified on 11/9/2003 12:02:12 AM

Glad to see the author kept on open mind and had no personal agenda.  I'm surprised a bikini clad model posing next to car isn't considered by the authors to be a form of abuse.

I think it's important to acknowledge that many forms of prostitution are abusive and promote violence against women.  However this collection of articles doesn't even allow for the possibility that some women freely choose to enter the adult entertainment industry, are not being exploited and view it as a perfectly acceptable profession.  Hopefully these are the only women we come into contact with via TER.

Well they don't have some of their facts straight, but a lot of what they say is true, (and didn't you think some of their stuff was funny in a sarcastic way?)  I mean, we're dealing on this board and others like it with a pretty rarefied area of the sex trade, I think there's far more that goes on on the "dark side" of the biz that someone like me would never be aware of.  They don't make allowances for women with their heads on straight who simply choose to be in the biz for their own reasons, but if you're trying to make political points I guess the idea is to make the message as simple as possible.  I think many (most?) people would find the idea that so many women CHOOSE to be involved in the sex trade unpalatable.  I think we're still that Victorian in North America.

In actual fact, they're making the argument FOR legalization in my opinion, because all that shady stuff wouldn't be able to flourish if the business was legal and out in the open.

-Anya

Just seems to me that every time I read an article about this profession it is totally biased.  

Rarely if ever do they interview girls who are educated, well rounded, employed in other areas outside the business and choose to do this for fun. People have a set notion in the minds about prostitution and they refuse to see the other side.  They need to talk to some of us here before they start painting all with the same brush.

Is it just me or does any one else see Atty Ashcroft and the Dept of Justice with their hands dipped in this crap.

Granted, it looks as though they are basing their research on street people which is a whole different world, yet a life that probably would lend to their viewpoints.

Each lady can view herself however she wants. Some escorts DO refer to themselves as prostitutes; some as whores, and that's ok for them. I'm not a prostitute in my mind; nor am I a whore.
I think of what I do as a hired date/companion (paid date); a consultant, or subcontractor.

I rarely watch TV, but had it on last week, and I think it was "Third Watch" (maybe?), and the lady cop was telling her new lady cop partner that they needed to do this sting. I got excited when the new partner said "why, what's the big deal? Don't we have more important things to do??" and I thought 'yes!' - I can't believe they are actually going to be right about it, but, no, that's not what happened. The lady cop quickly said "It's AGAINST THE LAW and is wrong, and it will bring drugs and violence into the neighborhood!". Now, mind you, this wasn't street stuff - this was more like a brothel that she was trying to sting.
It's ridiculous the way they want to portray the sex industry. Our country has some really messed up ideas.

I think, since the number of women going into this profession is increasing, they are working overtime at making the image even worse.

If this website mentioned more about escorting, etc, I would ask the ladies if they thought it would be a good idea to compile some letters and send them off, but this website doesn't even deserve my time.
With that, ladies, what do you think?

Several thoughts come to mind when reading this link.....

It is written by a nonprofit group who has worked with street-level prostitutes. The women (probably some men as well) who they have worked with probably fit the mold that they portray. I am sure they have horror stories and are in their own way trying to aid those who need help. Are they biased and stereotyping the women who become prostitutes? Yes. They make broad generalizations that merely captures a percentage of the women in this profession.


The opinions and research presented has a specific agenda and target audience; to solicit (intentional use of the word) funding for PRE. To suggest that there is a legitimate portion of women in the profession would be counterproductive to thier agenda. All research is inherently biased when blanket generalizations are made.

I have no doubts that the study presented has been given kudos by colleagues and like orginizations and has been recieved well by people/institutions who would likely donate funds. But, that is who it is written for and thus no surprise it has the slant that it has.

I went to the site and focused on "Why I became a prostitute"  the reasons listed were at best, absurd. I felt like the comments came from some type of air headed woman! I don't consider myself an airhead, the exact opposite actually. From what I have read by other providers here at TER neither are they. I'm sure in some parts of this business some are abused, but articles such as these only serve to inflame as opposed to shedding light.

... I know we're in for rough sledding to put it gently...

crap//
I hit reset that sucks.
I think more than one man in that group has had a backstage HJ or BJ and is now too quilty to confront his longing for the "full deal" so their playing pity party to the "victims" Streetwalker Thai Brothel Hot House Hookers...
Really ALOT different from a paid accomplice in kink.
What do I call myself.. on a rather sassy day absolutely I can be a concubine biatch hooker hoe or BRAT. In Pvc Leather and Boots I am a Dominatrix Maitreiss Mistress Princess
In between the sheets I am your lover your friend your confidant and a place and space in time for you to turn off the world and just be in the now...
Whatever I play that out to be is no biz of theirs cause I fuggin love it and thats just a dang crying shame . .. lol I dont cater to stereotypes or opinions I am way to narcisistic and comfortable in my own skin to pay attention.
I think most ladies here are so comfy in who they are.. titles.. just dont stab them ...

I think the age notation is way off. I have never met a provider who started out at 13 or 14. Many have lived active, full, professional lives, dated, married, divorced, traveled, settled down, bungy jumped and even knit quilts between travel dates.

Again, this article stereotypes women as victims, stupid, low self esteem, no control, drug addicted losers. This article is not a investigative report. It is one person's summation based upon an assumption of what it must be like on the "inside" when that person isn't and has never been on the inside.

I have never met a provider with a "manager". I don't feel powerful. On the flip side, I don't feel controlled either. I feel none of that. I feel pleased, paid and content.

Under help wanted, I note the task "being hung from trees". Humm, never had that happen.

I found the article on black women interesting.  All I kept thinking was, well maybe, in South Florida.

"Today, middle-class white men from the suburbs drive through the ghettos of America to pick out whichever Black women or girls they want to have XXX with, as if our cities were their own private plantations. No, prostitution is not tolerated in the Black community any more than African-American slaves tolerated it on the plantation; it is imposed upon us."

Imposed by white men? Shame on you white m***** f'ers.

"Straight hair is "good" hair; thick, tightly curled hair is "bad" hair.

So I take it Cindy Spice is black. ??

Under "Why I entered the field".

6. My vocational counselor and I discussed a whole lot of possibilities: doctor, lawyer, women's-studies teacher, legal secretary. I was offered a four-year scholarship at Stanford, but frankly, prostitution seemed the most rewarding job option available.

Mom, dad. I'm forgoing college to take ****. Thanks for all your love and support. You just saved 40 grand. See you at the country club.

HB

There is a basic flaw in their theory that all prostitution, pornography, etc, is based on male dominance over women.

The problem with their theory is that gay men are just as likely to see prostitutes, call phone sex lines, and look at porn, as straight men.  Except obviously in the case of gay men, there are no women involved at all, so how can it be based on men trying to dominate women?

I'd also like to point out that there is another school of feminism, opposed to the Andrea Dworkin types, referred to as sex-positive feminism.

I've included a link here to an amazon.com list of a bunch of books relating to sex-positive feminism, many relating to prostitution.

No, I don't think this is Ashcroft's brand of getting the message out.  Without dragging this too much into politics, I will just say this is more like a "totalitarian left" viewpoint.

-Hoot.



-- Modified on 11/9/2003 4:19:32 PM

I like to think of providers as sex therapists.

Gimme a break! The ladies I have met are outstanding folks. I treat them with the utmost courtesy and respect. Hell, I have encountered providers who have given discounts in exchange for showing proof of making a donations to the American Cancer Society during Breast Cancer Awareness month, or who have provided discounts AND matching fund donations to a list of local charities listed on their web sites. They do this because they are civic minded and want to give something back to the community. It seems to me that they have a greater social consciousness than the average CEO or Wall Street executive and greater morals and ethics than the average politician. Just my humble opinion....

to go beyond our own individual experience if we are to understand anything of the big world out there.  Here at TER we deal with the very privileged upper crust of the sex industry.  For the most part those providers who have a web presence, and certainly those who participate in these discussions, are far from typical, and the life described by some of the articles on this site are altogether too common.  And ladies, for the most part they're not talking about you, they're not even thinking about you.  They're dealing with what they regard (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) as the vast majority of more "typical" cases.

Do they over generalize?  Sure!  Is their tone a bit too strident to appeal to most of us?  Absolutely!  Is some of what they say really stupid.  Uh huh.  Does any of this negate the valid points they make?  Hell no!  So let's stop personalizing and start thinking.  I've posted a link to a site I just stumbled on while trying to research some of the issues raised.  It' a lot more balanced, and presents more facts and less opinion.  I particularly recommend the "San Francisco Task Force" and the "Compiled Statistics" links.

Let me tell you a little story.  It's not about the "sex industry" but I think by the end you'll find it relevant.  It's about a lady I know personally.  In order to come to this "land of promise and opportunity" she made an agreement to accept transportation and security from Immigration at the expense of the person bringing her here.  In return, she was to provide uncompensated domestic service for this person or clients until her passage was paid off (at minimum wage or less).  In her native country this is a legally binding contract.

So she decides after a while that she really doesn't like being a slave here.  What can she do?  Her visa depends on the sponsorship of the contractor.  If she just walks out, the contractor reports her to INS, she's deported to her home country TO FACE CHARGES OF BREAKING THE VALID CONTRACT which obligated her to slavery here.  Oh, the end of this story is that she found a husband here so she can stay legally but still had to pay off the contractor in cash.  

Now for a plausibility argument, i.e. I have no solid evidence to back this up but "it seems reasonable".  What about all the new Russian agencies springing up everywhere, or those Asian clubs here in LA where you can get  FS for $1/2 including the agency fee?  Are all those women simply following a freely chosen career path?  If you believe so, I suggest that you need to see about a new pair of glasses, without the rose tinting this time.

I'm suggesting that we should NOT emulate the folks at prostitutionresearch.com by denying those aspects of reality which don't fit our nice picture of the world but rather we should be in the forefront of cleaning up these abuses.  I'm reminded of the classic movie "M", where Peter Lorre, a child molester, is put on trial by the criminal community of Berlin for debasing what it is to be criminal.

Finally, kudos to SomeNerd and Anya for having the objectivity to recognize this.

-- Modified on 11/9/2003 8:09:13 PM

Personally,I think that the articles were geared more on a global scale,and toward the street sex workers.My meaning is if You take into consideration how an South African sex worker is treated and debased,Yes,You can see a point,Or a Thai brothel worker may be indentured.But,here and now,just how many ladies have pimps?In America the majority of sex workers are not on the streets.It was just a broad generalization to keep the funding going for someones personal adjenda.The moral majority uses these types services just as much as the liberal minded folks out there,"They just don't admit it."If there was no demand,there would be no supply.But I suppose My case in point would be watching Hbo's hookers at the point.The Ladies interviewed there were of a different class all together,The other end of the spectrum is Xaviera Hollander or Heidi Fleiss.But its all still the same in the end.My opinion is decriminalization and health regulating is a more viable option.Keeping it a crime,just gives the criminal element all the more leverage.