Re: "in charge", I'm not talking about in bed, mostly about the non-sexual aspects of a relationship.
Men are like dogs! Duty, loyalty and love,(no offense guys) but they always see things in black and white terms. Men either commit to duty,loyalty or they don't. There is no degree. Women are like cats, they are independent and they want to be love when they want to be love under their own term. ex. A cat will come up and rub itself against your leg when it want to be patted and once it feels that it has been patted enough it will simply roll over and bite you to let you know when it has had enough.
Some men will do anything for their women , but Unfortunately women will see this as a sign of weakness. I shake your hand for being brave enough to post the post that you posted. (I can't wait to see the response)
When it comes to relationships, the ideal situation should involves communication and equal partaking in both the decision-making and responsibilities. Consider the fact that being in control as a man means being secure enough to be equal as well.
But in some relationship most couples In general, it is usually one spouse who ultimately takes control assuming it's the man. because it is a natural response for him to bare the control.
I personally believe that it is the man's fine duty to control the decision-making process of all family related decisions -- or at least pretend he does. Why? Because like it or not, it is probably the only thing left in his life he can still lay claim to. Once he lose it, he no longer have anything to look forward to. It is hard for a man to balance out a relationship once he loose control.
Men are taught to be in control even though they spend most of their time thinking with their other little head. Unless you have a marriage such as Bill and Hillary without Monica, I highly recommend that you wear the pants before your wife does.
Otherwise, before you know it, you'll be wearing a skirt around the house while dusting the furniture. (I know i will get flame for this one)
-- Modified on 9/25/2002 9:47:25 PM
on is that ever since I have my cat, I have a deeper understanding of how to deal with a woman.
-- Modified on 9/25/2002 11:02:34 PM
I just want to pet my cookie and kiss my toes and just when I think I have you wrapped around my finger, I want you to flip me over and spank my bottom, pull my hair and make me say "Yes Daddy!! Yes!" when you ask me who my daddy is.
Now who says girls are confusing????
ehehehe.
hey I could do that for you!!! 
Ouch , Ashly you are hot!
So when are you going to come to Dallas to see me?
Sheesh girl dont hold out on me..........
Hugs;
Scot.
I at least am much more like a dog. Happy, open, loving... hurt my feelings and see me hide under the bed all sad and pouting. Praise me and pet me and watch me wiggle, smile, and smother you with kisses! I might walk away, but I don't typically bite like a cat would!
Hugs*
Nicole
Actually, you're a playful puppy.
You (unfortunately for so many men) speak the truth and I wish I would have known these things many years ago. I could have saved myself alot of grief. Maybe it's not too late to get my balls back from the locked box my wife has had them in for so long.
Unfortunately you describe a state of affairs that is seen too often. Personally I have seen it often enough that I usually assume a married guy is cat-whipped until proven otherwise.
No woman who is interested in having a good relationship with a man wants a man who will "do anything" for her. A man who submerges his own identity to that extent lacks self-respect. A good relationship is one in which neither person "whips" the other. That kind of thing just breeds contempt.
The two keys to good relationships are respect and communication. To respect someone else, you first have to respect yourself.
"When it comes to relationships, the ideal situation should involves communication and equal partaking in both the decision-making and responsibilities. Consider the fact that being in control as a man means being secure enough to be equal as well".
Performanceperfe, you are absolutely right when you say this. But then you go on to say that it's good for men to be in control (or at least think they are), basically because it's all they have to look forward to, and you imply that women should let them have this. But a marriage in which both people are equals can also be something for a man to look forward to every day, because in the end it is more rewarding. Neither men nor women have to fall into this trap of thinking that the man isn't a real man if he treats his wife as an equal. For a man, learning to treat his wife as an equal, instead of feeling threatened by his wife's equality, can be a great thing.
Regarding the "mystery" of women, I think that the fact that women are complex, and have many moods, is one of their great appeals. It's one of the things that makes them women, and women are definitely different than men! This is actually what I was referring to in my original post when I said that they want to be in charge at those times when they feel like being in charge. It varies from time to time for each woman. Some women, unfortunately, think it is not "feminine" to ever want to be in charge, or at minimum think that they will be robbing their man of his masculinity if they don't let him at least think he is in charge all the time. But in a good relationship, both people can "take turns" being in charge when it is most important to them. At those times when both want to be in charge at the same time, they need to work it out, finding a mutually agreeable middle ground. By the way, when I say "in charge", I mean in a way that is always respectful of the other person - no whipping!
But a woman can overdo the "mysterious woman of many moods" bit. For example, a problem in many relationships (it certainly was in my marriage until my wife and I figured it out) was that a woman thinks that a man should magically know what whe wants without her having to express it. Both parties think it is unromantic for her to simply ask for what she wants, as if that would be too boring and unromantic, and not "mysterious" enough. My advice to the women is to take some of the "mystery" out and just ask for what you want. Like I said, good communication is key to a good relationship.
"For example, a problem in many relationships (it certainly was in my marriage until my wife and I figured it out) was that a woman thinks that a man should magically know what whe wants without her having to express it. "
Man, truer words were never spoken. Some time ago I finally decied the way to deal with this game was to not play it at all...that even on those occassions where I could reasonbly guess the other persons expectations, I wouldn't act on them unless life or limb (or something nearly as serious) were involved. This was born out of A) The desire to break the habit on the part of the otehr person and B) my own personal distaste for assumptions being made about my desires and intentions.
My rule is, if you didn't say it, I don't know it. Period.
Am a Single "Lady" today. Could never get that Guy to drop his Ego off at the door before entering my world of love, compassion & respect. I like equality, why not just skip through all the BS right off the bat which is horrible anyway because you are planning to spend a lifetime together, so why not make it a loving peacefull environment so you can enjoy each other instead of battling over this & that which no one enjoys being beaten to the ground everyday. Relationships aren't built on Ego's & Pride, they are built on Love, Compassion, Trust, Respect & most of all "Open" Communicaton. If a man wants to date me & I see him with a great big inflated Ego, I tell him "Sorry, I just don't feel I have the kind of time it would take for you to turn into a "Gentleman" & you didn't get that way overnight! Then, I get "Teach Me"! I used to be a hell of a teacher, now I've Graduated. "LiL" Darlyn
and it should involves communication and equal partaking in both the decision-making and responsibilities. No one really in charge.
Thank you for not getting pissed at me...You are a sweetie
Kisses
Hug's
But I only partly agree. That may be what women WANT, for a longer period of time, to feel fulfilled. But it most often is NOT what women RESPOND TO, and it therefore is not something that is guaranteed to KEEP a woman interested even if she is getting it, because someone else might provide her with something she RESPONDS positively to, even if you are providing her with what she wants. Confusing, hunh?
So, your formula may be helpful for a type of developing dynamic between a couple who have known each other a while and have broken the ice. For me, I'm learning to be less concerned about providing the other person with what she wants, what she thinks she wants, or what she thinks she's supposed to want (or generally a variegated mix of all of the above, depending on her phase of life). Rather, I'm stopping trying to be her slave, and I'm learning to be responsive to my OWN desires, first and foremost by approaching attractive women in such a way that I end up getting laid WHETHER OR NOT she actually thinks that's on her own agenda. I don't mean to say I refuse women the right to choose -- that would be rape. But I do mean to say I cause them to choose in my favor. By the time I'm done with them, they no longer want "what women want," they want ME. Or, I at least try to create that response in them. And that causation has only tangential relation to "what women want," the topic of this thread; but a great deal of relation to "what women will respond to."
Your commentary about the dual nature of power has me convinced, that you know what you're talking about there, as well. The "masculinity" of a take-charge kind of guy DOES get a lady's motor revving, but a guy who only THINKS he's a take-charge kind of guy, but is actually putting on a thinly veiled ACT of dominance, will be immediately smelled out as a poseur and will be rejected rather than lusted after. Further, every take-charge kind of guy knows that his best method of leadership is to allow his follower to feel secure, by never being insecure in his own strength (a.k.a., by never needing to be OVERbearing or domineering), and by being secure in the other person's strength (a.k.a., by giving over some decisions to her, with a keen eye to deciding which decisions are the appropriate ones for someone other than him).
To learn to come across as dominant but not insecure, as confident but not swaggering, as sure of yourself while also sensitive to feminine "needs" (none of which, it turns out, are really as mandatory to satisfactory fucking as a young lady will tell you they are) ... all of this is a compliated balancing act. I don't claim to be an expert.
But I do claim, categorically, that once I stopped listening to women telling me what they wanted, they started to want me a whole heck of a lot more than they ever had before, and soon enough I was getting laid enough that OTHER women wondered what wonderful mojo I had. THEN the women were saying, that "what women want" was a guy like me. I only sometimes hit my stride on this type of mojo, but I still must say, that "what women want" is not necessarily "soveraynite" (sovereignty, or dominance, as Chaucer said in the Wife of Bath's tale). "What women want" is a man with that kind of mojo.
Women respond to funny shit. They like for other people to make their decisions for them -- either in the form of a male who is slightly more aggressive than is currently politically correct; or in the form of social sanction and approval from a group of female peers -- while also feeling that they've always been in control of their own decisions. They ARE like cats, rather than dogs, as someone else in this thread posted.
I personally hate cats. They are unreliable, flighty, and profoundly self-motivated in a manner that a human male can only intellectualize but seldom internalize. I'm allergic to them. But at least nowadays I have a little bit better handle on how to pet the kitty so that it doesn't bite me.
I would welcome emails on this subject, as I have come a long way from my obsessively hobbying days of only a few years ago. Maybe I'm just growing up, but really I do believe that my own lack of frustration about what women want, is a major factor in a growing sense of happiness and self-development. I owe a large portion of it to some web-sites, which I would share with people who are willing to take them seriously.
I don't use the internal email here at TER, because I don't always keep my membership up to full status. In fact, I'm trying to wean myself from TER altogether, as I intend to no longer need providers except for those special rare occasions such as bachelor parties and overnight stags to Rio (which I can't afford, so that's just a pipe-dream). So, if you can find me at mail dot com, I'm willing to chat, and I look forward to it.
BG
-- Modified on 9/26/2002 4:41:57 PM
