This story just won't die.  The New York Times reported this afternoon that the 78-year-old lawyer who was accidentally shot by Vice President Dick Cheney on Saturday suffered a mild heart attack today after bird shot migrated to his heart.

In an unrelated article, former Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson is quoted blaming the victim: "This is a hunting accident, created by the victim. Dick Cheney didn't do anything. He's a master hunter."

Well, at least he got one thing right; Cheney is good at doing nothing -- he didn't even tell the WH about the incident.

So he shot a lawyer.

They say he didn't have a game bird stamp, but since when is a lawyer a game bird?

That the stupid left-leaning media make a big deal of this is proof positive that they are out of touch.

Who did Ted Kennedy tell about Mary Jo.  Oh, and speaking of telling - what do they call it when you lie before a GJ?  "white lie??" or perjury?  I always seem to forget that....  Point being - an ambulance was dispatched - they guy was treated and until notification of his family well, why should anyone else be told?  I'm sorry but this just doesn't make sense to me....

Oh, and while we are on the subject - why should anyone have to tell the press?  isn't that their job - finding and reporting news... but since they now have to spin and slant the news to fit an agenda - guess they don't have time for investigative reporting... oh well -

CHENEY WAS FUCKIN' DRUNK!  Makes the 'accident' a crime and SO LONG DICK HEAD!  Oh, and by the way, Cheney is the worst VEEP in the history of the country and Bush is the worst Prez, bar none, hands down, no contest, end of story, period!  EOM MA

1. Ted Kennedy should have gone to jail for Mary Jo.  Has no bearing on this case. 2. Who lied before a grand jury?  You referring to Clinton.  Get over it.  He got a fucking blow job, which, since you are a hobbyist, you probably do too.  3. The FUCKING Vice President of the FUCKING USA shoots a guy and it's nobody's business?  Are you outta yer fucking skull????  IF he was drunk -- which would explaint he 14 hour delay in reporting the shooting -- it is a crime and a coverup.  And, since he did not meet with a local cop for 14 hours, we'll never know, but my guess they were tanked and Cheney was rightfully afraid of criminal liability....  And if the atty dies, well, can you say 'criminally negligent homicide?'  Sure you can, Bizarrodork.... 4. Are you implying that the WH should never tell the press anything?  If so, then why the fuck did that traitorous, treasonous piece of shit Rove tell Libby about Valeri Plame, which Libby revealed to the world.  

The Bush fuckwards are the worst pack of scumbag lying traitors and war criminals ever to inhabit the WH, and your pathetic and illogical attempt to explain/justify possible criminal, certainly immoral behaviour is foolish, dishonest and STOOOPIT....  EOM MA

Actually, this situation could be quite like ol' Ted and Mary Jo.  See, Cheney refused to speak with the sheriff's office for about 18 hours, which would give him plenty of time to sober up.  The ranch owner has been quoted saying that "a couple" of beers were drunk during lunch before the "hunt".

If indeed Dick was drunk, then it's moving on into felony land, just like Ted.  So either this situation is a big deal (assuming we find out something conclusive about the drinking), or Chappaquiddick is not a big deal.

Telling the press is, indeed, not all that relevant except that it's yet more secrecy from this administration.  Avoiding the cops long enough to give Cheney time to sober up is another matter.

As for lying before a GJ, who exactly are you referring to?  I mean, we've got Mr. Libby now indited for perjury, and Mr. Rove is still under investigation for perjury, and it's not clear if Cheney comitted perjury either....or were you talking about the lying-before-congress variety of perjury done by Alito and Gonzalez?

And frankly, shouldn't this thread be on the "Politics" board?

-- Modified on 2/15/2006 12:49:05 AM

I did not put it here - manic depressive - did - I am responding to that post.

Second - for those keeping score... yea, there may be some negligence - but to the level of Ted and Mary Jo?  Really don't think so.  especially given the rate of "incidents" surrounding the Kennedy Clan And  yes, drinking and going hunting or drinking and driving a young lady around in a  relatively isolated and rough road are both activities to be avoided -

At least Cheney did not abandon the scene of the incident - whatever it is.  HE GOT HELP!  so help me out here - exactly where are these alike with respect to passing the test of who would you rather be with under the circumstances - Teddy?  or Dickey?  

Second with respect to perjury - interesting that you should bring that up- Reps who lie go to jail and serve time - no argument there - as it should be.... Dems who lie - get off scott free - and IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE LIE IS ABOUT - it is still a lie....  

And Alito lie before congress ??? About what?  Gonzalez--?? About what?

With respect to the press - I'm sorry - I just cannot agree that Everything is as important as the press seems to think - they don't report stuff they should report - and they make up stuff as they go along - Just ask little Danny Rather - a lowly graduate of a state teachers college in Huntsville Texas - who at the Demo Natl Convention in Chicago in 1968 refused to comply with public safety ordinances and had to be forceably ejected from the convention.  Later it is this same Rather who comments that he had the facts of the story wrong - but the story was true?  comeon!  investigative reporting - they just make it up to suit their needs....   why feed the sharks?

With respect to getting a blow job?  huh?  It was not the blow job - it was lying that caught clinton... and yea, if he had just said - "hey, I abuse my power to coerce interns to have sex with me - get over it" - I guess I would have just gone to my intern in the corp world and said - "hey sweetie - have sex with me for xxx position...."

But now that I think of it Bill didn't even fulfill that promise to Monica....   in short - he didn't put the bills in the envelope...  not only is he a lier - but he is cheap as well.  

So - in short - I have not responded to all the other "Dick is bad" posts in here - but I agree these belong on the politics board... so tell you other postin libs that as well...

Thank you.

-- Modified on 2/15/2006 2:10:35 AM

running for a second term - I mean come on  - the reason that he is so vitriolic is because he was such a poor leader.  Maliase?  yea- First name Jimmy.  Sheltering the Shah? Than ya jimmy-   comeon - why do you think this has been aimed at the US?  instead of where it should be aimed - the You're-a-peeins.

So please - and for the record - I am disgusted wtih both parties with respect to their inability to protect national integrity.

Folks, let's try to focus on the REALLY IMPORTANT things going on in the world.  What the VP did, or didn't do is just not that important.  Nothing is going to change.  He'll still be VP next week, next month, next year.  It's time for people to face the fact that the current administration is not going away.  Face it, and get on with your life.  BTW, I voted for Perot.LOL

There is no comparison. There were plenty of eye-witnesses, it was not an option.

As for the seeking of medical. Medical help were right there and an ambulance was on standby.

I did post this topic here - quite accidentally as it happens.  I tend to roam among the various and, doofus that I am, I thought I was on the Politics Board when I posted.  My apologies.

That having been said, aren't there a few differences, between "Mr. Chapacquitted's" incident and Mr. Cheney's?  Kennedy was alone when the car went into the water.  There were no witnesses, allowing Kennedy full rein in controlling the aftermath.  

Cheney, on the other hand, was surrounded by witnesses; Secret Service Agents, 3 other unidentified members of his party and his medical attendants.  I doubt that Cheney was drunk given the presence of these witnesses.  The delay in meeting with the Sheriff can be explained by the fact that it was the SS who notified the sheriff and they may have given assurances that it was a simple accident, causing the sheriff not to rush to see the Veep.  

Altogether, the more I read, the less I believe the Cheney shooting is indicative of any wrongdoing.  It’s just a fun story susceptible to a lot of joking around.  And, it illustrates that Cheney has his own set of operating rules that deviate distinctly from those that govern the rest of the Administration.

I agree.  Family, faith, and doing what you can to ameliorate the suffering of others. Supporting causes (including politicians) that rationally and effectively combat the atrocities committed aound the world, terrorism, and the political instability that threatens the stability of the globe.  These among many others are the REALLY IMPORTANT topics in our lives.  

But I don't see that a little humor, or innocent digressions diminsh those REALLY IMPORTANT things in any way. After all, isn't the hobby at least at some level about more than just getting your rocks off? Isn't it also in part a way to escape from the oppression of those REALLY IMPORTANT things?

We can't resist following it because it's a man-bites-dog kind of story, but politically and legally speaking, it's a non-issue.  

Most politically significant part of this, I guess, was finding out that Cheney goes hunting attended by a medical team.  

For Karma's sake, I wish it would turn into a Vince Foster-like rumor orgy.

but it is this type of soundbite journalism that keeps many skilled and able people from running for office.  The incredible need to destroy reputations with respect to anyone achieving success.   Witness the feeding frenzy surrounding Wayne Gretzky and the alleged gambling issue.  Now that the investigation is providing evidence that Gretzky is probably innocent of any and all wrong doing - the papers are suddenly speaking in a whisper.  They should be shouting that perhaps they made an error.  The man's incredible career, and contributions to the sport have now been dwarfed by the writings of those of significantly lesser achievements.  

Who among us would care to have that happen to us.  As incredible as it may seem, the disgraceful behaviour by our press seeds our sometimes inaccurate perception, not just of current events, but also what occured in the past.  As another example, recently at CS King's funeral, JCarter went on to talk about the wiretaps of ML King's phone calls.  The implication, by omission, is that it was a Republican administration that ordered the taps.  It wasn't, it was the drunken senator from MA's brother - atty gen. Robert Kennedy who ordered the taps.  So, please give me good candidates so I can vote too.

Ok, ok - I'll run - but only if Lex agrees to the VEEP position!  with CiaraPhx as my Sec of Defense!  Avalon Rose can be the sec of HHS, CiaraHasFun will be the Sec of state....  well, you get the picture....

lol

Halliburton played a role in this, just how we don't know yet....

if this happened to Joe Sixpack, he'd have his ass busted for negligent A&B and be out on $5,000 bail.  If you're the veep however....

Get a life and a brain, Bizzaroturd.  Clinton is no longer president, and Teddy (and as I said in my original post, he should've gone to jail for Mary Jo) is not presently involved in anything nefarious.  It is DICK CHENEY, the current Veep of the USA who shot a guy in the face in a hunting accident (and nobody, I think, suggests it is anything more than that, an accident).  To withhold news of that nature for a day goes against the norm -- i.e., it is suspicious.  It raises questions of drunken and therefore criminally negligent behaviour.  It stinks of coverup.  It reeks of, at very least, ineptitude....

So, let's forget about Bill C's blow job, shall we (although I think he should have been impeached for BAD TASTE!  Ugh...  Monica? -- a 6/6 at best)...

As for Alito and Gonzales (by the way, it is spelled with an 's' at the end, not a 'z'), yes, Bizzarodope, they did lie -- by refusing to answer a question under oath.  Lied by omisson, lied by obfuscation (look it up -- you must have a 12th grade dictionary somewhere, left over no doubt from your last year of education), lied by misdirection, lied by disdain for the truth, the system, for honesty and for the oath.  Alito is a right-wing idiot-logue (don't look that up, I made it up), and we can kiss Roe v. Wade adios, but he did not have the balls to say so....  Gonzales is a lying piece of shit who is defending a power grab so clearly unconstitutional that it defies refutation (how does one refute that which needs no refutation?)....

To sum up in short sentences so you can follow, my brain-damaged friend: Clinton not under investigation here.  Clinton gone.  Cheney here.  Cheney bad.  Cheney shoot man.  Cheney drunk.  Cheney not tell police.  Cheney coverup.  Cheney go to jail.  

MA

Like cancer, the Bushies will eventually go away, either having been driven out of office by voters with enough sense to realize they have been lied to about virtually every issue of the day (WMD, Osama and Sadam, Global Warming, Social Security, Alito, Wiretapping, the Budget Deficit, the Trade Imbalance, Katrina and N'awleans, etc), or, like a cancer that succeeds, they will destroy this country.  

MA

It MIGHT be or might have been a big story if Dick C was drunk on his ass when he got out of his car and blasted his buddy.  But we'll never know because no breath-o-lyzer was given because the cops were not called because Cheney sat on the story for a day....  If that was you or me, our sorry kiesters would be in the slammer and we'd be calling out, in the words of the late Warren Zevon, for "lawyers, guns and money...."  Ok, maybe not guns....  MA

What was covered up! And by the way, since when is refusing to answer a question lying?  While it may not be a preferred way to go, it is not lieing.  And yes, I will keep bringing up the sins of the past from the Demos because they were never handled properly in the first case... had they been, I would not dwell on them....

And by the way - you would give Monica a 6/6!  No wonder you demos and libs are ashamed of the US.  Man, I do not even consider myself a hard grader but 6/6 seems a tad high....   I mean after all, she goes beyond BBW....  and she seems the Fatal Attraction type.... hummmm.....?

..who was the provider and who was the hobbyist in this story?

our VP blasted someone with a shotgun. Have you been watching Leno, Letterman, Kimmel or Jon Stewart over the last few days? Too funny. What happens if this guy dies? The buffoonery of this admin is unrivaled.

NSF

I love it that he drives liberals and democrats so nuts that they become conspiracy theorists and driveling idiots.

We do not KNOW IF anything was covered up....  That is the point....  That is why cops come to a shooting ASAP, to see what the IMMEDIATE (possible) crime scene says as close to the shooting as possible....  IF -- and I am not saying it is true...only an IF -- IF Cheney was drunk (and let's be honest, boozing and blasting away with shotguns is as Uhmerikin as apple pie), the evidence of that is gone gone GONE by the time a day has passed....  So, it is NOT that there IS a coverup, it simply stinks to high heaven that this shooting was not dealt with in the normal course of action for a hunting accident.  If YOU were out hunting and blasted a pal, the police would be there in TEN SECONDS, not a day....

As for Monica...well, I was being kind....

As for being ashamed of the USA?  I cry when the national anthem is sung, I adore my country, I love our constitution, I served in the military and would do so again in a minute if they had called for volunteers to go into Afghanistan (and I thought for a moment I could heft a 100 lb backpack and a 18 lb BAR)....  Ashamed?  How about proud as punch, but not blind.  Not blind to torture and ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL eavesdropping (especially when the FISA legislation allows the feds to place a tap ANYTIME and ANYWHERE and WITHOUT a warrant, as long as they go to the courts within 72 hours!)....  MA

MA, you claim that Bill's crime was one of bad taste, with Monica being a 6/6.  I get the looks part, but as for performance...it would seem that she provided a BBBJ, in spite of misplacing the seed.  There was evidence of other activities (i.e. cigars), which would lead me to believe that a 6 in performance is harsh grading.

Other than that, and your insulting tone towards our greenish fellow member, I tend to agree with your conclusions.

....since the stain must be semen, the gal must've spit...so cannot give her a 10....

....as for insulting tone, I was not aware of it....  greenish means inexperienced, and everybody was inexperienced at one time....  I only mean to be insulting to blockheads, knownothings, obscurantists, obfuscantists and republicans....  EOM MA

My comment about this belonging on the politics board was addressed to everyone in the thread, not you specifically.

As for Kennedy vs Cheney and severity, it's really going to depend on what happens next.  Obviously if Cheney doesn't end up killing someone, then his indiscression is less severe.  As for summoning help, there's little indication that Cheney did much of anything.  He was surrounded by other hunters, the secret service, and had a medical team close by already.  With that large crowd, help's coming even if Cheney doesn't want it.  And none of us have any way to know if he would have summoned help.

On perjury: If the dems got off "scot free", then they didn't commit perjury.  The Clinton administration was the most investigated in history.  If a crime was actually committed, you can be sure someone would have at least been indicted.  If you're specifically referring to Clinton, he didn't lie, he mislead (an ethical violation).  The judge in the case defined sex only as 'traditional' intercourse.  So Clinton could honestly say he never had sex with Monica, because the judge blew it (no pun intended).

As for lying by Democrats in general, well there's this whole Iraq mess that you should probably address before casting stones at the Democrats.

Also, I didn't bring up any convicted perjurous Republicans.  None of the people I mentioned have served any jail time.  I brought up the people I did because your post was tarring all Democrats as perjurers.

Btw, Alito: Lied in his previous confirmation hearing about ruling in a case that involved Vanguard Securities.  In his SCOTUS confirmation hearings, lied about not remembering his membership in an anti-women and anti-minority group of Prinston alumni...or at least there's significant evidence he did.

Gonzalez: Lied before Congress about the existence of the domestic NSA wiretapping.  In his appearance recently, the Republicans "investigating" the program allowed him to not be under oath while testifying, a rather unusual situation which would insulate him from any further perjury charges because what he said then wasn't true either (assuming we believe the 'leaks' coming from the program over the AG).

The press: yes, if you look back I said it was not important for Cheney's people to talk to the press immediately.  As for the Rather story specifically, there is ample evidence that the basics of the desertion charge is true.  For example, there's a lack of records showing W finished his tour, and nobody from the Alabama unit remember him showing up, even with a $10,000 reward for information.  What turned out to be false were the memos in the Rather story.  Hence, Rather's comment that the specific facts in the story (the memos) were wrong, but the basic story (disertion) is true.

As for Bill and Monica, you seem to have confused several different parts of the case.  Bill never promised Moncia anything.  Paula Jones claims that Bill asked her for sexual favors, and thus sued Clinton for sexual harrassment.  Nevermind that there was no basis for the suit (if everything Paula claimed was true, there was no actual sexual harassment in her story).  Monica became a 'big deal' because Paula's attorneys wanted to show a pattern of harrassment to try and strengthen her case, and to embarass and weaken the Clinton administration.

The comment about the BJ was to demonstrate the difference in the lies.  Lying about a BJ: Not as critical as lying to Congress during a hearing, or lying to cover up outing a covert CIA agent, or lying to start a war.

In all the media hoopla not one word about Cheney's intended target: the bobwhite quail.  So what happened? Was it a Clean kill? Miss? Or a wounded bird coasting to a rest in the brush?  Did Cheney recover the bird?  Did he leave it to die a slow death? The answers to these questions would tell me more about whether or not VP is a true "sportsman," we already know he is a careless and negligent hunter.

a secret service agent friend of mine says Cheney was so shitfaced he didn't even know he'd fired his gun, let alone hit anyone. When he realized what had happened he gave everyone present a BBBJCIM, then let several of them top him for round 2. That is what caused the 18 hour delay. And that's the truth!

-- Modified on 2/15/2006 7:56:53 PM

a secret service agent friend of mine says Cheney was so shitfaced he didn't even know he'd fired his gun, let alone hit anyone. When he realized what had happened he gave everyone present a BBBJCIM, then let several of them top him for round 2. That is what caused the 18 hour delay. And that's the truth! That would make Cheney the provider, even though in lieu of cash he accepted stonewalling with the White House press corp. And those cocksuckers might qualify as providers too!

The sheriff was called very soon after the accident.
The press was notified my the ranch owned soon after
deputies interviewed Cheney and the victim.  If you want to work up a conspiracy theory consider this--the ranch owners father hired Cheney at Halliburton. Oh, my GoD!

...safely returned to it's nest in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan.