Maybe its the season influencing my saying this, Maybe its just my memories of the year past and the great people I have come to know here. Our future here truly relies on watching each others back. Provider and Hobbyist alike share in the risks associated with the hobby, neither is immune from being outcast  by family, friends or employer or wind up with serious legal problems if outed or caught

  Lets always remember to put ourselves in the others shoes/Heels during the awkward screening stage. Never forget gentlemen how much of themselves these ladies give and ladies never forget how hard won the contents of that envelope was for the gentleman.

  Lets all keep the "flake factor" down to the minimum. We are all valuable here and so is our time. The ladies count on the gentlemen being there for them and the gentlemen count on the ladies. No one is above or below common courtesy.

  To those with favorites or an ATF never take them for granted and ladies you should remember to always value your repeat and regular gentlemen all the more.

  As noted in the thread below there have been several busts over the last few months. LE is getting more savvy in getting into our internet haven. We as a community will have to be all that much more vigilant. The more understanding of each other and sense of community we establish the harder it will be for LE to victomize us.

  Happy Holidays everyone

    FR.

         

who take part in this situation as being victims of LE.  We have to remind ourselves that it is the law and we are breaking it.  I'm sure though that no one here needs that reminder. Most in this community doesn't agree with this law but their are others in this world who do and its their for a reason.  So many reasons why it should be legal and so many why it shouldn't be.

We in general have met some very great individuals and of course wish that nothing would happen to them such as LE busts or even worse getting harmed by some FREAK.  But there are others out there who are forced, robs and FREAKS that makes this situation needed to be policed.

Just my thoughts on the subject.  

Thanks again FR and Happy Holidays to you and all.

                                  jammers

As long as both consumers as well as providers are careful, the law enforcement folks will have a hard time catching us. A few of the things that I mean about being careful is for example: ID checks and asking a client if he or she is with a law enforcement agency, many states require that if it is asked, they must reveal. Big point here is that a consumer and provider both should not be offended if they choose to take extra safety percautions. It will keep this hobby going strong.

stupid southern hick jokes.  "Hey, uh jus asked em and he said he wuzzent a cop.  He lied ta me!?!"....(sound of rebel yelling as he's being cuffed)

I often wonder when I hear the statement that this is the law and we are breaking it...is the law the law?  Not meaning to sound like Clinton, but no one is committing murder, rape, child molestation, or even stealing a candy bar when he/she is in a provider/client situation.  Undoubtedly we need laws to keep society intact, but history clearly shows that the edges of many laws are worn down to the point that the laws are changed by those who choose to break them.  Look at prohibition and its repeal.  Look at Texas sodomy laws.  Look at racial purity laws in Nazi Germany.  THe FREAKs refered to by jammers will unfortunately always need policing.  They are more free to be 'unlawful' when they operate in a situation where laws don't apply.  How many rape trials use the notion that the woman was asking for it just because she was dressed in a provacative manner or even asked the guy into her house?  OK, I am starting to ramble here, but hopefully my point is made.  We need to be wary of LE and try to discourage them from wasting time on us.  Somewhere a child will not even eat this Christmas for less than a fraction of the money to arrange a big bust of providers...what misplaced justice and hypocritical moral values.  I hope things change for 2004.

Agreed GND...  I've said this in previous posts too.  The layperson has a TV-distorted view of what can and can't be used to claim entrapment as a defense.  Case law shows consitently that in every circuit, false statements by police officers undercover are not illegal.  I'm not a lawyer, but I've never heard of any jurisdiction where undercover officers have ever been required to reveal themselves.  This would bring undercover operations to an unconditional stop overnight.

An entrapment defense places the burden of proof on the defendant that they were not predisposed to have committed the crime, and that the police created a set of circumstances where a reasonable person who would otherwise not have committed the crime was induced to do so.

I would really like to see a discussion thread on TER about how providers really can create meaningful safeguards.  I have seen so many hokey maneuvers, some of which have actually cracked me up.

#1 I am not a cop!!! Is there any part of that statement that no one understands? #2 I have never been busted or ever will! That is because I a paralaw degree and just too much comon sense. I know that is hard to believe, A Texan like me with "smarts". Gee, bigotry has no boundries, it cuts so many ways. #3 and last, yes there is a way to get a jump on law enforcement, you must do your homework. As a footnote, If those of you who are that afraid of the police, no big deal; quit the hobby.


                         Rebel Yell Crimson Tide Alumnus

it merely referred to the link to dispell the LE cant lie about being LE myth. Other than that, you are right about doing homework etc... I just used common sense to understand what GND intended.

Please forgive me, it was kind of early for me in the morning(post Sat night) and I read into it too much.

that many people still have.


-- Modified on 12/21/2003 4:41:40 PM