I don't want to anger anyone but why do some hobbyists see a provider if they are in a relationship or married? I guess I'm old school but if I'm in a relationship I will go dark and hold any and all memberships I have and I will delete them when I settle. I just don't believe in infidelity, it's your life I'm not judging I just want some insight that's all. again I apologize if I have upset you.

Most people would probably feel like you in the beginning. But when that fire dims down and your eating everything insight, your living life doing the same things over and over, and your not excited anymore. You might just want a little fixing, something to spark that flame back up, to have you standing tall again!.... people who have settled for years will most likely venture out just to feel important or whatever it is that the searching for.

...and that's probably a low estimate.  I'm certain that without married men, most providers would starve to death.

I don't feel judged here--but I do think that you don't understand how many men are "trapped" in marriages from which they cannot easily break free--whether it's because of children, an inability to take the financial hit involved in divorce, whatever; and at the same time, need some kind of outlet for their passions, and to be with a woman who will (for short periods of time, at least) make them feel like a hero rather than the zero their wives undoubtedly do.

In case it's not obvious, I'm married.  I didn't decide to start pursuing the hobby whimsically or capriciously--it was my least bad option amongst a range of poor alternatives.

Someday perhaps I'll be able to cut myself loose from my commitments, and be more willing to seek "what I really want in life" (whatever the hell that means) in the civilian world--or I'll just be able to continue hobbying with a little less need for discretion.

I hope you have a long happy monogamous life with the girl of your dreams, OP--the rest of us are just forced to make do from time to time, in whatever way we can best manage to do so.

I can't be sure of exactly what the ladies will say on this topic, but I'm going to take an educated guess:  Most of them will prefer the married men as clients--as a general rule, they will tend to be more reliable, more generous, more inclined to treat them well, less inclined to "fall in love" with them, or otherwise try to maneuver the relationship in a civvie direction, etc.

"Old school"?  Sorry, at this stage of the game, I'm too old to have the luxury of being able to feel "old school" on this topic.

Sorry to sound like such a cynic--this particular question popped up at a particularly frustrating time in this particular married hobbyist's life..

This...  well, most of this, anyway.  Life gets complicated the longer you live it.

I will get back to you when I get that figured out.  

I am a believer in the concept of polyamory, or the sharing of sexual activity among many partners.  I also feel that nature has designed us to be that way, and that the societal norms that eschew polyamory are synthetic, and not in the best interest of today's society.  They are, in fact, carryovers from a medieval time and were meant to subjugate rather than enhance life.

That said, the hobby is an avenue to restore the natural order of things, and should be encouraged, not penalized.  I think some day in the far future, this will come to pass.

So, on the subject of commitment to one's SO, I feel that this can be accomplished within the scope of polyamory by simply holding up one's end of the commitment both in terms of financial support, as well as time and caring (If those feelings still exist, that is.) within the bounds of the various situations that your lives afford.  

Of course as pointed out earlier, sometimes those feelings of commitment no longer have any basis in fact, and should be legally disposed of.

To summarize:  sexual fidelity and other forms of fidelity should be viewed separately, and treated appropriately for the individual situation rather than held as some inviolable scripture.

*OK, maybe that was more than 2 cents.

You've done it again, my lad.  Can't disagree with any of it.  My posture is, first of all, I try hard not to judge others.  Personally, both times I was married I practiced sexual fidelity.  That was what made me comfortable.  In hindsight, perhaps it was a mistake, but I don't regret it.
No matter how many scenarios you can imagine for someone else's life, you'll never encompass all the reasons people stay married and how they rationalize their obligations.  I don't think marriage is sacred and, given the fact that half of them fail, many other people don't either.  So I don't judge.

Many reasons for those in relationships to seek physical intimacy outside that relationship. Health is one. I was married to a lady who lost all interest in sex due to a health condition. Not her fault - but a strain on us nonetheless. Most other parts of our relationship were good, we enjoyed many wonderful times together - but the physical intimacy was absent. In situations like this you can either grin and bear it, have an affair or seek the comfort of one of the lovely ladies on this board. This wonderful hobby offers an uncomplicated way to manage through these situations. We tend to define fidelity in a sexual context only but, in my opinion, that is only one dimension of a loving relationship.

many things in this world that has no answers especially for those are still stuck in old school.  

In a purely evolutionary sense, what was 'morally right' was what got kin birthed, and helped them survive to produce a new generation. I read someplace that (temporary) monogamy evolved to help the mothers raise and protect their children when they were young and helpless.

Many men are in warm, loving, deeply committed relationships in which health related issues have robbed the wife of sexual desire. The alternatives are years of abstinence ( try it, not fun and certainly not natural!), having an affair with its emotional baggage and much more problematic than  satisfying ones needs and desires in the hobby world. I'm sure that for many men, and probably for many women for entirely different reasons, the decision to enter this hobby world is not an easy one on many levels. I for one have found a level of comfort with myself and thus I am an overall happier individual than I was during the long years of marriage without! I am consequently a happier and more satisfied person in general and that means at home too!

Offered with respect and deep sensitivity to what you are saying.
Try going 10-15 years without sex and then repost. You may have a different perspective!

My examples were generalized, not totally based on my life (primarily in the sense that I don't have kids--although many other married hobbyists do, I'm sure).

My father had four children, and while (AFAIK) he never hobbied, he did have a wonderful mistress (not really a sugar baby, I don't think--my dad never earned the big bucks) for many years.  Was it suspected by his children at various points?  Yeah.  Did my mother ever suspect?  Absolutely not.

Do I think my own relationship with my father would have been better if he left my mother?  No way.  And the financial hit that would have ensued if my folks ever split up would have taken my mother, siblings and me straight out of the lower-middle class, and right into the multi-generational death spiral of the welfare system.  Not to sound "consciously hypocritical", but I think everybody came out ahead in my family--I think a little bit more constructive hypocrisy would be a good thing for our society in general.

Kids don't always "see the truth".  That's a lot of BS pumped out by Hollywood, where the kids are wise beyond their years, and the parents are immature and stupid.  Kids are kids for reasons which are not just physical, but also because they haven't yet acquired the skills of critical thinking that allow them to analyze situations accurately.

As for "so what if she gets half your money" thing:  I'm calling BS again.  While I refuse to start disclosing numbers in some sort of weird d--- measuring contest, let me just say that in a divorce, I'd probably end up with far less than I believe to be my "fair share".  I've worked too hard for too long to rebuild at this stage in my life, and I would never be able to "market myself successfully" with women (civvie or provider) if I were forced to start from scratch.  It's simply an untenable situation for me to consider.  When you ain't got that much to lose, it's a whole different ball game, as compared with having a relatively complex financial structure.  I'm just not gonna let that happen to me.

If I understand your post correctly, you're 25 years old at present?  I've got you more or less lapped, my friend.  I hope you do have one of those great monagamous marriages, and much financial success--really.  But in case you don't achieve that goal, I'd love to be able to compare notes in another 25 years or so and see if you feel the same way.  Speaking for myself personally, questions of morality and right vs wrong were much easier to answer when I was your age than the same questions are today.

I am very happily married for 33 years and we have a great sex life, but the boundaries of our great sex are well-defined by years of comfort.  Btw, she is hot and still drives me crazy after all these years!  But if I want something outside those boundaries, it is uncomfortable and stressful for one of us.  Secondly, variety is important to me, and an affair is out of the question (although it would be easily available in my profession).  So, while I never hobby in my hometown, I see providers on my travels for variety and menu items that are not available from my wonderful wife.  

that those who do practice sexual fidelity are somehow misguided.

I can see how some people regard sexual fidelity as important to them and their beliefs, and as the US is the land of freedom, I say good for them.

My post was to focus on the opposite also being fully in tune with the same principles of freedom.

the gents I see are married or are in some type of relationship.
If I only saw the gents who were single I would be starving!
Before being in this business I felt the same way you felt if you are in a relationship you are with that one person.After a relationship is over you are free to date more than one person.
Since I have been in this business my outlook on relationships have changed a bit.

Since you are probably the least judgmental creature on this board, I can't imagine any way you could possibly offend me.
Oh, an FYATWYRIO!

Might change from "toilet" to "build-it-yourself table", but definitely a good, usable metaphor.  

Posted By: tg_baby

In a purely evolutionary sense, what was 'morally right' was what got kin birthed, and helped them survive to produce a new generation. I read someplace that (temporary) monogamy evolved to help the mothers raise and protect their children when they were young and helpless.  
   
 Anyway, if survival isn't an issue, obviously, as history shows us, there are endless possible variations of partnership(s), and many reasons to moralize/legislate over sexual behavior. But we live in a society where, at least theoretically, we are free to do whatever and marry whomever, as long as it doesn't harm anybody else.  
   
 So here's a snippet from a different book. Nerd point to anybody who knows it I'll summarize the metaphor since I don't have the book handy. Somebody purchased a toilet repair kit. In it was a bunch of parts and tools, and a note saying, 'All parts are included, but not all installations require every part.' It was a metaphor for relationships. From all of my hobby and dating relationships ( I consider long-standing regulars a certain type of relationship since it's never strictly business) ...each one has used a different 'part' of me, and I consider myself richer for it than if I'd limited myself to traditional dating.

Amen!

Why? No drama for the most part, but every now and again you get those poor saps who fall for a hooker, but that is not the norm. Married men 'for the most part' only want a distraction and are easy to get along with. They pay the rate, show up on time, do the deed, and are gone. Can't really find something to hate about that scenario.

LMAO...yup. The lame excuses do get a bit old. I like the guys who outright post, "I fk providers because I am a scum bag" lol.

I felt guilty the first time.  Tried to improve things in my relationship in many ways without any real results.  Now you (and many others) can say that I and other guys in this situation should break up and just be single.  Well that is a lot easier said then done.  We all have reasons why we don't take this step and we can all justify them until we are blue in the face, it won't make you or others with your belief feel better or change your minds.  But I can tell you this, I still treat my SO very well, and the hobby has made me feel a lot better about my life since I'm getting what I want too.  And frankly it is nice that I can spend some of my hard earned money on something that really does make me happy.  I take as much precaution as I can to keep my hobby secret so I don't hurt my SO, and if I do get caught at some point then I'll take what's coming.  As far as the ladies I see, I would hope they don't judge me for it but rather enjoy the spoils I try to give to them for spending a small amount of time once in a while with me.

my experiences with this board started several years ago after one of our monthly 'meetings' when I was told by her "that's too personal ....I think I recall it was kissing! Said to myself "ok" and here I am.

I am sending Satan after you!

So big that it kind of makes you an ass.  Walk in our married shoes, or more like sleep in our sexless beds,  for about 10 years before you lay those judgments on us.  

Why cant married men be doing this just for a different piece of p*ssy. Its the only reason this married man does it. I have a great sex life at home and we get along great. Married young is the only problem. As its just about a different body.

Sex and love are two separate things. You can have both with two separate people at the same exact time. Things change in a marriage. A Provider provides something that the significant other isn't without the complication of a girlfriend that you have to worry about an attachment. A provider isn't upset if she you see another provider. A Provider will help you explore things that your spouse might not be open to. I've been married and divorced and to be honest a Provider makes things a lot less complicated than marriage. You can freely communicate with a Provider without judgement or the worries of losing half your shit!