then why are you making the post ?
Don't say anything, think you are going to change a cheapskate ?
doubtful - let's talk about something good.
xo lisa
Guys, I have a question for you...
There are many fine hobbyists out there to which this doesn't apply, but I am absolutely curious about this one.... I don't encounter hagglers generally and am not at a loss for men trying to see me, but I see lots of debates about this on various boards.
If there is someone you want to see outside of your price range, why don't you just go see someone that's cheaper? I see these discussions about capping rates, about forcing down prices so guys can see certain ladies and it all looks to be rather pathetic, honestly.
why not just see someone in the price range you want to spend? There are many fine ladies out there who charge lower rates as well.
What often goes unsaid in these debates is a detectable amount of resentment towards the ladies (not in all, but plenty), having to pay for it, or the thought that providers are making hand over fist much more money than they are, so they should give it up cheap.
Gents don't understand what goes into this- the price of ads, incalls for the ladies that do it, etc... and sometimes, despite your assertions, it isn't profitable to have low prices. (A big duh on that one.)
Why bitch and moan rather than seeing someone who asks for less? If I can't afford a nice article of clothing or purse I want, I buy a cheaper version. End of story. We can't all be living the fab life.
Katie
Nope, I'm sure no one likes hagglers....unless you mean Marvelous Marvin Hagler
aka the "Brockton Bomber", and one of the greatest middleweight champions.....I wish I could afford some of the higher priced provider's, but I've been more than satisfied with those in my price range
Katie, there's always going to be guys who see your pics, and read your wit and straight talk, and know they have to be with you, and no other will do. But, alas, they reach in their pockets and find they cannot reach you.
I'm being a bit silly but I think there is allot of truth in what I'm saying. But, I don't blame you for being upset when they attempt to have you meet their needs on their terms. Time for them to face reality and move on.
the only ones that will do that are the cheap bastards who like to haggle. If they do It'll allow you ladies to put them on your "don't see" lists. More than likely they will post under an alias.
BBxxx
thought and info to totally fill this puzzle. First of all define haggling? I keep hearing this term. Is it someone asking you specifically for a lower amount than advertised or is haggling a gent asking if your offering any specials, or both? I think these send two different messages. The first would be insulting, the later I would chaulk up to inquisitive.
During these trying times, many providers, as you stated, lower their $, and many advertise "early bird" specials, limited time offers, etc, etc. What I have seen is ladies stating on their web sight that prices are non-negotiable, thus preventing the haggling. (definition?).
I have owned and still own a premier lodge both in the US and abroad. Many prospective clientel have asked for "off season" rates, extended stay discounts, etc. This was nice because I could fill vacancies I otherwise wouldn't have and I didn't have to advertise different rates for different time periods. If there were none at the time I merely said so with no offense taken.
This is my .01 worth of professional wisdom and please don't think I'm comparing you ladies to a lodge!
Fire away!
I'm typing with wet nails, so this will be slow... lol.
I don't get hagglers, usually, but I take them to be men who ask ladies to lower their rates, the guys who bitch and complain that rates are too high. So see someone else, right?
I was thinking about this because I've noticed on various boards some guys think they're going to institute caps on ladies' donations, that ladies aren't worth over 150, complaining about the market price being much lower than what ladies ask for their time, etc...
Personally, I don't see the point in bitching and moaning rather than seeing someone in your range. Someone said to me on the LA board yesterday that women find it most profitable at 250-300 and that's how it should be, the higher rates are for ego. Not so for me at least. I find that I'm too busy as it is and thought I might need to raise rates. Then again, they also found my argument of cost of living increases about the ladies raising rates from bargain basement poon to market price not very helpful.
Katie
Wow! That was some exchange. You really held your own.
then why are you making the post ?
Don't say anything, think you are going to change a cheapskate ?
doubtful - let's talk about something good.
xo lisa
I appreciate Katie's concern for the other ladies in this profession who are harassed by the type of men described here. Instead of stifling the dialog, I think it should be entered into by all in an effort to create a big picture that can be shared by escorts and hobbyists, alike. After all, when we cease to understand each other's function, the whole business becomes moot and ceases to be helpful to any of us.
Instead of the "us against them" attitude that has become so prevalent, let's figure out ways to meet in the middle, right??
And even though I no longer escort (for now), this is a conversation that I enjoy entering into. I have information that might be just as valuable to ladies and to hobbyists as the info provided by those still active in the business.
Because a Honda will get you from point A to Z. But it will NEVER be a BMW.
Also some guys have nothing better to do.
I agree... It is what it is. In some, and I would underline some if I could, businesses there is room for negotiation. In others it's not even an option. People sometimes can't distinguish between the two. It takes a little common sense, which unfortunately, many people don't seem to have now days. I see some guys openly complain to a woman that they could see two other girls for what she charges. So what. Don't go see her then. You don't need to complain to her. How rude. Move along. If you can't afford to play, move along. It seems that common sense and common decency has been throw out the window. Haggling for a lower price on the guys side is just like ladies who upsell. Either would absolutely ruin the meeting for me. So to the guys who want to haggle, I suggest trying the red light district. Again, if you don't like the price, move along and shut up. No one wants to hear you bitch about prices. If you want to bitch about something bitch about the price of gas. $3.69 a gallon here.
IMHO,
BBxxx
But there have been a couple of times that I found a lady that I really wanted to see who was a little above that cap. I just saved up a little more money, saw the ladies, and I'm glad that I did. Needless to say, that maximum no longer applies. If I'm really attracted to a lady, I'm going to see her one way or another. I don't haggle. I think it's insulting, and wouldn't want anyone trying to barter my talents down to fit their needs. I just pay the price, and so far, I've been very fortunate.
Concerning rates, I dislike when the charge is higher for an outcall for EACH hour. Seems reasonable to charge an additional fee, but I see where many charge additional per hour. So for a multi-hour date the charges add up. I'm in a wheelchair, active and in good health though, so I get an accessible room, and doubtful that the incall location is an appropiate option.
since this is being discussed in a general context in terms of the subject always coming up, I think it also fair to state that something often get overloooked in these conversations. And that fact is that some ladies do bargain.
I understand how annoying it must be for a lady to have to deal with haggling when she does not want to. I really do. But if a given hobbyist has found success doing this in the past then he will try to do so again. That much is for certain. So at times I am perplexed at the degree of annoyance this causes for some ladies. If he asks, just say no. If he persists then I'm 100% on your side, i.e you are dealing with a jerk who does not take no for an answer. But being that bargaining and discounts do in fact occur in this biz at times, it is somewhat unrealistic to expect it to go away.
-- Modified on 4/18/2008 2:12:36 PM
I think there are a few things that happen here. First of all I tend to think there's a way ladies present themselves. You want to present yourself in ways that would attract the type of clients you want to see.
And then there are men who decide to complain. Then the ladies who decide to participate in the complaints. There's a lot of decision making here. We can always decide not to create or aggravate the situation.
So to answer your question, it's because they choose to.
that it's all about the benjamins with you girls. Bottom line: It all comes down to the dollars and cents.
~~I don't think so, yet I do value my time and in a market where my time can be greatly valued, why not. I have no shame in this and neither should any one else.
By the way...this is my JOB!!
Do you do your job for free?
Do you expect to be paid what your time is worth?
Well so do the rest of us.
I take that as a sign that this type of opinion is in the minority
What am I going to do with you? Thou protest it too much...
"I don't encounter hagglers generally and am not at a loss for men trying to see me, but I see lots of debates about this on various boards."
It's more than just a debate that you saw...clearly it's something personal that bothers you as we can see the passion leap off the page in your posts on this topic.
A long passionate post leading to one of the longest threads on this page.... isn't it obvious???.... it's about "money, money, money" It's ok to admit it.
The quote you are alluding to is from Hamlet, Act III Scene II spoken by the Queen to Hamlet: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" after Hamlet asks her "Madam, how like you this play?
However, I posed the question to facilitate discussion... if it's a problem, why bitch rather than moving on? I ask this because I'm trying to gain perspective.
However, Mr. Obviously not my biggest fan, I think you would be remiss if you didn't think that money played into this. You pay us, we let you. You receive a certain amount of satisfaction (whatever that is) from it and life goes on...
Rather than trying to tear down the ladies providing this service for you while simultaneously ignoring that you utilize this service, why not engage constructively in the conversation?
Katie
If haggling doesn't affect you.....
why bitch and moan about it?
I posted my comment because your first post seemed a little disingenuous. Why do you always have to bring up the fact that you're doing well and none of the problems you bring up ever affect you? Yeah right. Is it some self-concious protective wall thing. Just be trutful and admit that this is a personal experience that you've encountered and not something you happened to read about. If you want an open and honest discussion, then you're going to have to start doing the same.
What is there to debate on this topic anyway? It's obvious, the guys that haggle are cheap. Just politely say no and move on. Why would anyone want to haggle anyway? First of all, you're already starting off on the wrong foot. The girl's not selling an everyday service. She will take it personally and even if she agrees to it, she'll take it out on you in the session. Admit that it bugs the heck out of you and let's move on.
This wasn't written because I experience it, but rather I read it online all over the place, I see these discussions and wonder why in the hell they start these things rather than just voting with their wallets and moving on.
I am being perfectly open and honest, sweetie, and truth be told, my original post was completely honest and genuine, motivated by these discussions I read, not personal experience.
Katie
This is their job, their income to pay bills and rent and food. Your own job is all about the dollars and cents just like everyone else on the planet.
It does not matter one whit at all whether someone likes or dislikes their job. There are plenty of professions out there that people love doing, but the bottom line on everything is the dollars and cents. You can't live without it, everyone needs it.
So, Mr. The Obvious, you are totally correct in what you said, but it not only applies to providers but to everyone else who wants a roof over their head and food on the table, including you and me.
b-
very good points on all sides. I would just like to add that it seems some are under the impression since we are "self employed" we are able to lower our rates if we choose to unlike lets say an agency would. They don't take into account as was stated "overhead" and they don't really understand what that consists of. I am a freelance artist as well and I will give an estimate for a mural lets say and less than one third of the time there is always someone who either tries to bargain down my rate or they act as though they would like to. They don't feel it should cost so much. But it does. Its out of the norm its an exclusive talent, none other like it one of a kind and its a luxury. So that being said I have the ability to charge more than a straight house painter who will just come and roll paint over your walls.
After overhead ect...you charge what you are comfortable with charging for your time.
Some men are also under the impression we are all on our backs from 9 am to midnight and we must see several men in one day making a killing doing so. Thats mostly so untrue, and being low volume you do charge more its Quality and not quantity.
There are also some men who see woman as easy to try and talk down, so thats another issue. I see that in the painting biz as well. I just think stick to what you prefer, they will see you or they won't and either way its all good. I get turned off by a haggler anyway. Doesn't happen too often but it has happened.
Play safe Everybody~~
Nicole~~
-- Modified on 4/18/2008 4:10:29 PM
I love high quality low volume provides, and your time is worth more because of it!
I guess what I'm trying to say is you can't control other people in what they do or don't, but you can control yourself. There'll always be undesirable things, and you can either let it bother you or not.
Although I am kind of a newbie (just over a year of hobbying), I don't think it ever crossed my mind to haggle or bargain with the rates that were listed on each gals site. As some have said, I have an amount that I know is my cap and that is the area that I stay in. I have slightly gone above my cap but that is only once in awhile. I own my own business and I wouldn't want someone to try and bargain with me. My price is my price and I think that this is not a seasonal thing we are talking about so that is that. If an individual wants to offer a special or a discount, they will put it out there for us all to see.
There are a lot of men who don't want to pay "retail". It's how they operate in Corporate America as well as their personal life. They negotiate EVERYTHING. These men feel better about themselves when they can negotiate a favorable compromise and I don't think it's specific to hobbying. Don't take haggling personally.
Personally, I wouldn't dream of spending my time haggling with a lady which goes both ways. I don't haggle so the lady shouldn't upsell which is VERY common in escorting. IMHO, adults should get the donation out of the way as smoothly as possible so the companionship can begin.
Personally I can't imagine bargaining for services provided, most providers clearly indicate their pricing structure in their ads.
I firmly believe that pricing should be based on several factors, overall physical appearance, menu and quality of service provided. The market dictates what price level works for each individual provider.
In another thread I was flamed for stating my belief that it was IMO better to charge more and work less than to charge less and work more.
I am more apt to chose a provider that gives a slight price advantage for multiple hour appointments (my preference) and less likely to pick one that just lists a straight hourly rate.
I prefer an all inclusive price rather than a base price+ (so tacky). I would never ask for a discount regardless.
I think when one person tries to have another person reduce their rate, for a professional service, it can often be for the purpose of gaining a "one-up" position, while the person reducing their rate is put in a one-down position. From their one-up position the person often exerts pressure to get even more special treatment. I always keep the playing field level. In some circumstances it can even become dangerous not to do so.
Another possibility is that getting a reduced rate fights off conflicted feelings, like when getting a great pair of shoes on sale. You desire the shoes, but feel guilty for the thought of buying another pair, because you know you have plenty in your closet. But, the 10% off the normal sales price makes you feel less guilty, or more justified in your purchase.
Just my 2 cents
And not because I'm fabulously wealthy. (Would that I were!) I just believe in a free market. A provider sets a price and I decide if it seems worth it for me. It's a simple business decision for the both of us. And I'm sure a smart provider listens to market feedback: if she isn't getting as many calls as she'd like in spite of advertising, then perhaps her rates are too high. And likewise for the opposite situation.
No resentment at all.
--b.
I really don’t think that hard core “haggling’ is as wide spread as many think. There’s quite difference between bitching about the price of gas at the pump vs. asking the attendant if he’ll cut you a deal. A lot of people (including you and me I think) do the former, but how many actually do the latter? I think that those that make a lot of noise about provider prices are trying indirectly to affect the market psychologically.
-- Modified on 4/19/2008 12:03:17 PM
Reguardless of rates, if it weren't for you ladies, I wouldn't have gotten laid becuase honestly I don't go out much and am very shy. It's definetly better then spending $40 on an STD loaded street crackwhore in the projects, then get busted afterwards.
1) Just because people are talking about it does not mean that it is happening. People complain about all kinds of prices, but they take very little action about them.
2) Why do you think you are relatively immune from haggling? Are you unique? Again, maybe it's not actually happening. I gave you my reasons as to why you see the bitching and moaning.
Underneath the guise of a worthy point...
that was the most egotistical thing that I have ever read on TER.
Congrats!
And stating an observation/opinion. It sounds like you have a problem with the latter. I understand that. It's rude to openly suggest that an individual provider's rates appear to be out of whack with going rates and I'm sure providers are offended by it. But it isn't bitching and moaning. It's a legitimate topic for discussion.
If somebody told me I was paid too much for what I do, I'd tell them they're right and that I don't have any guilt about it.
based on some discussions I've read around the boards where men are calling for a capping of ladies' rates, the worth of providers overall as objects, etc... I posted this. I posted to facilitate discussion and somewhere it became labelled haggling...
Katie
They keep buying tickets or they swear off going to games unless someone gives them a free ticket.
Believe me, there will never be a successful boycott of hobbying. I would cross the picket line.
A gentleman who doesn't say a word about your requested donation (and even tips you)- now that's super sexy. Just a form of natural selection ... -e
I never haggle. Seeing a lady is not buying a car or TV. If I have a problem with rates, you will never know, as I will not contact you if that's an issue. When I make contact, I am dead serious. Maybe that's why bat over .800 when I do so? And I have great references...
CD
Another reason, imo, is for some guys it's about the chase. They can have it for a price. But some think that if they can haggle a lower price, then they are better than the rest of us who pay retail.
I'm glad to hear you never complain about rising prices of the things you buy. I hear people doing that all the time.
and I would NEVER ask you that. I do not know how guys could possibly expect a woman to give her all in a session that was "negotiated".
My guess is that most of the posts you see are in relation to lower-priced providers. Don't let it get you worked up, it's just the nature of the beast. There's a lot more haggling done on the lower end of every economy.
-- Modified on 4/19/2008 7:19:42 AM
Like everything else in a free market economy! This isn't rocket science. If a girl can make a certain price, then good for her. If she finds herself speding the hours alone in a hotel room, then her rates are too high. If she is too busy, her rates are too low....Ideally, she is like Goldilocks....just right!
in the a$$ about rates and not understand the word "no", he might not want to understand the word "no" to a particular boundary you may have as well when behind closed doors.
I can't afford the five star restaurants but I can find a great meal at many other very good restaurants.
Totally agree. I can’t afford a million dollar house on the beach, and I don’t call the listing agent and complain that the price is to high. I can’t afford to drive a Ferrari, so I don’t go to the dealership and complain that they are too expensive. I can’t afford to be with a $10,000 a night provider, I don’t contact her to complain.
I do find that there are houses, cars, and providers that I can afford, and I’m very happy with the lifestyle I’m able to live. I do consider myself fortunate. I suppose if I couldn’t afford to see providers, there would always be porn and hand lotion.