The other day I was looking over my email...I am a member of several escort Yahoo Groups and I noticed this one womans ad

Her price was outrageously low(especially considering what she said was on her menu)...so I checked out her pics and boy is she hot too!

OK but the problem was she was way too far away so I thought what the hell...I'd ask her if she ever travelled and if so would she come to a particular town much closer to me...what do I have to lose right?

Well despite my offer to help her get other guys signed up if she took the trip she declined BUT she said if I would commit to her for a four hour appointment she would make the long drive anyway just for me and stay overnight for that price and breakfast the next day(she said she liked what I wrote in my initial email to her)

My first thought was WOW!  This seems too good to be true

She's new and as far as I can tell has no reviews anywhere so that worries me some but on the other hand if she's willing to drive ALL day to get to me(over 300 miles) from another state a couple of the things guy usually have to watch out for seem be eliminated right out the gate

I doubt she could be LE(they surely wouldn't go to THAT much trouble to get someone would they?)

I doubt she's a cash and dash chick...coming that far might not totally remove that possibility but it seems to be stretching things more than a bit...don't they usually do things like that in their home territory?

Since this appointment is an allnighter the MSOG thing would be a given

As much as I liked her pics...her emails are what has convinced  me enough to try to set this up...it's not just what she says but HOW she says it that make me think I could in for a hell of a good time

So I'm asking you guys with more experience in this than me...what am I overlooking?  Even I know I'm thinking with the little head not the big one but I really think this is worth a shot

I can also take numbers with me to the town as back ups if for some reason she cancels on me

If this works out she says this could become a monthly event and I have to say if she's even remotely like she's presenting herself this would almost be a certainty on my part

I'm using a fake ID because if people when answering this post come up with a zillion things that can go wrong...I'd just as soon not feel like an idiot here in future postings...plus I don't want a bunch of PMs asking me who the woman is(maybe after I meet her...I'll feel differently about this)

So what am I overlooking?

Sounds fishy. She is supposedly new, no reviews but is hip enough to say this could become a monthly thing? Baby, Le ALWAYS sets up a multiple hour appt. Also she declined your help in setting up appts. with other guys, which is also crazy. I don't like seeing more than one a day because I feel my performance declines, but a new gal will be money driven, and will want as much money as she can make for a long trip. I could say more but I don't want to make certain enforcers of the law jobs easier so we can PM this more if you like. Bottomline: don't do it. If you do go ahead and decide to do it, which you probably will, then follow my step by step advice regarding not getting busted in an earlier thread not long ago. WTF you doing snooping around in Yahoo user groups when you know you're playing with fire? Whatever.

"Price was outrageously low considering what was on her menu?"  So you mean she spelled out exactly what she would do for x amount of dollars?  That is breaking the law and, coupled with an *outrageously* low price (theoretically, one should know what certain acts are*worth*), reeks of LE at worst or at best, someone who is genuinely clueless and will eventually end up getting her own self in trouble in the not so distant future. Proceed with caution if you even decide to go that route!

HTH,
NM

Before you go, you'll probably need one.

She did the whole "languages" dealie...that's the thing...her emails were very provocative without being explicit

They were intensely feminine...I really doubt a guy would even think of saying what she did and yet the way she said those things pushed my buttons

Sure I thought her pics were sexy but if it weren't for her manner of writing in the emails I'd be saying oh well shes just too far away and look closer to home

Oh yeah I'll be getting the hotel...once she shows up(if she does) can't I lock the door from the inside and not commit myself until I'm comfortable she's not LE?

I thought it would be riskier for me to do an incall under this situation

Besides I just can't see LE running something that crosses state lines for just me(who would think she'd get an inquiry from someone so far away?)...if she were LE their target would be guys in THAT state not MY state

I was wondering if there wasn't some kind of scam known to YOU guys that could possibly be tried on me from HER as an independent woman not LE

But I also was thinking that most of the time if the woman is going to try something she would do it on HER home turf not hundreds of miles away

Like I said though I can't even pretend to know every type scam out there

To be honest I may as well tell ya that unless someone comes up with something hinky that fits everything as I know it...I am going to take the risk and set this up

It's just that I can't ignore that old proverb..."If it looks to good to be true then it probably is"

Maybe I'm hanging my hope that this proverb is just as true

"The exception proves the rule"

PS About her rate...the area she primarily works the going rate is much lower than my area so her rate may still be a bit lower for her part of the country but it doesn't throw up red flags either for being TOO low

-- Modified on 3/3/2004 7:09:11 AM

Ok, emails of an enticing nature are one thing, but isn't it possible the number you called is a cel phone?
My biz partner lives in the 818(San Pornando Valley) area code, but his cel phone is a 619 (San Diego area) area code.

Say we are talking about LA to Vegas (about 300 miles or so).
If this WERE an LE sting in progress, would it not be easy to use a 702 (Vegas) area code celphone in the LA area and claim to be willing to "drive 300 miles"?

Just a thought.

The Yahoo Group she was advertising in was for escorts in the midwest and she told the area that she operates in

She or LE for that matter would have no idea someone from so far away would try to contact her...especially from out of state

I have never called her yet on the phone...still all emails...once we set time and day then I'd like to talk to her on the phone...that's how I normally do it when setting something up days in advance

You mentioned her pictures--how hot she looks, etc.

Do they look like professional studio pictures, or are they more amateur, taken with a home digital camera, which is what you might expect with someone just starting out?

We've all seen the gorgeous professional Playboy type pics on Eros.....and then usually the girl who shows up is not anything like them...or if so, they were taken of her 10 years ago.

I agree with you that LE would be unlikely to cross state lines.

But I'd look at those pics closely again.

Good luck if you decide to meet her.

About the same thing happen to me and I got rob at gun point so be damn sure  she alone and you have control of the meetin

you make the investment of time to go where she is and meet her.  You can always set it up in a way to give you an easy out:  agree to meet her in a hotel lobby, coffee shop, etc. and chat with her a bit.  Ask her point blank if she's LE.  If she says no, then you're probably okay taking her upstairs -- otherwise it would be entrapment.  

But, all things considered, for the attributes you're placing such a high value on, I suspect other providers close by are available.

You know the old saying about something being "too good to be true?" That sounds like the case here. From what you described, I'd be very, very cautious. In fact, I wouldn't do it. Even if she's not LE, this just reeks of too much risk.

--b.

... and I don't play one on TV.  But I might be concerned if I convinced an underaged person to cross state lines.  Are you sure there is no question of her being underaged?  

I would meet her in a coffeeshop and check things out a bit before I took her to a hotel room or my residence...Harry

-- Modified on 3/3/2004 9:51:29 AM

I'd be more than happy to accommodate you in a threesome! I
think I'd best leave it up to you to entice her, though. . .

First thing detectives are taught to do is to look you straight in the eye and lie. They can lie and say they are not a cop. That dissapeared along with all sorts of things like Miranda rights. Where are your street smarts? Haven't you heard of undercover having sexual relations with prostitutes before they bust them? C'mon people. A little lap dance, a little BJ, a snort of coke before they nail the druglord. Please...its not called entrapment anymore. Its called being very good at what you do. I ask them all the time if they are a cop, but I don't listen to what they say, I read their body language, and I know when they are lying. I am willing to put my life on the line when I make the choices that I make. I am always better at what I do than a dick-tective. Are you? Trust your gut instinct, but I hope you make the right choice.

-- Modified on 3/3/2004 9:33:58 PM

Guess you helped clarify things a bit.  Umm..still a little iffy, though...because what everyone is saying is true, you have no out, or if you do it is more uncomfortable if she isn't what you expected.  And, yes, are the pics very professional or just candids.  Also, FYI, I think even "language" speaking and allusions to sexual activity is on shaky ground; although from your latest post, she seems less like LE.  

Any way, I had a client actually fly me to another city when I was relatively new (although still reviewed) and we got on famously.  She might just be young and inexperienced in the game but genuine.  I'd allow for more time, though, for her to become a bit well-known if you are having further misgivings.  Let someone closer to her take one for the team and review her!

Who is this gal?  Can you pass us the info too.  Maybe I can engage in her monthly services too

One look at my tattoo and that is the best piece of mouse cheese ever. We will be comparing tattoos and clothes will be slipping off, the next thing leads to another and once my toungue touches her skin, she's all mine. Prooven tested working theory. Patent pending.

...she said she is far, and you have a phone number to prove it...she could be just down the block.    If she is such a deal, have her over, for dinner...if she is inexperienced, she won't ask for the money up front.  If she is experienced (which she isn't by her own words) she will ask for the money up front.  Pay it.  Serve her dinner.  Kiss her goodnight...see what happens.  If she is LE, she will give up or on a day off.

I'm sure others would like to know what you decided or will decide to do, I know I'm wondering. Lots of great opinions/suggestions on what to do were posted. I would do the same as someone else mentioned and thats meet her somewhere public. Have breakfeast, dinner, lunch, whatever. Get to know her. Feel it out. Ask her if she's LE. Before you sit down at the table, hug her, tightly. feel Anything weird? If at any point during the meeting with her at this public place feels weird, then just leave. Go with your gut feeling! I've found my gut feeling to always be right. Put aside your little friend's feelings and just imagine sitting in a jail cell!

Good Luck!!

Guz

by J. D. Obenberger, Attorney at Law

© 1998 J. D. Obenberger

There is a lot of dangerous misinformation about arrest and police conduct that I have heard from clients over the years, and it is important that you have an understanding of what the law actually says. It is not my intent to get into the philosophy of whether it is right or wrong for the police to use dishonest of deception, but instead, just to candidly report to you what the law permits peace officers to do.

Police Deception in Detecting Crime

There is a widespread belief out there that police officers are required by the law to act like Boy Scouts, that they can never lie, that if they do lie, it means that you can beat a case, that they have to read you your rights and if they don't do it, you can beat the case, etc., etc. and more etc.

It is simply not true that a police officer has to tell you the truth if you ask him (or her) whether he (or she) is a police officer. It is simply not true that a police officer will not take off his clothes in a prostitution investigation of massage or escort. It is not against the law for a police officer to proposition a prostitution suspect for sex for money. It is not necessarily entrapment for an attractive female decoy to dress provocatively at night on the streets, make eye contact with drivers, and beckon them, and try to induce an agreement for commercial sex. I have not read many reported decisions in which the Courts have been enthusiastic about trick, deception, and artifice by law enforcement personnel, but the Courts do understand that in the real word, a world in which crime loves darkness, stealth, and concealment, crime can sometimes only be detected and prosecuted through those same means.

It is not entrapment for the police to provide someone with an opportunity for a crime. Entrapment only exists as a defense when it can fairly be said that the government actually created the crime. The focus of the entrapment defense is on the state of mind of the accused. If he or she readily accepts an invitation to break the law, it shows pre-disposition to commit the offense, and so it cannot be fairly said that the government created the crime. Police Deception in Interrogation

The use of deception, trick, artifice, and dishonesty in interrogation is not a mere aberration or fluke that sometimes happens. It is simply routine in almost every law enforcement agency, and it remains routine because it is effective


Because most courts take the view that deception is acceptable in custodial interrogation so long as it is not likely to elicit false statements from a suspect, it is a widely accepted practice to tell the suspect untruths about his case. He will be told that his co-arrestees have made a statement and have identified him as the ringleader, even when they have remained silent. He will be told that his fingerprints were found at the crime scene even when it is not true. None of this will make his subsequent confession involuntary and inadmissible against him at trial.


It should be noted that just as life is not always fair, the law is not always fair either. You do not have any reciprocal right to lie to a police officer

The most important rule to remember, if you are arrested, is that nobody ever got hanged for what they didn't say.  When Miranda was first decided, police officers and chiefs, from coast to coast, predicted that law enforcement would become unworkable, because suspects would heed the warnings, make no statement, demand a lawyer, and refuse to cooperate. Well, needless to say, the sky did not fall in on law enforcement. That is because the suspects kept talking.

It is actually rare for a suspect to invoke his Miranda rights and refuse to answer questions. The reasons are complex. Some people think that they can talk their way out of an arrest or out of jail. Some people feel the need to confess guilt. Some respond easily to a police officer who comes across like a friend. Some are convinced that they will go down anyway, and that "things will go easier" with a statement. For whatever reason, the police were amazed and chagrined to learn, that rights warning or not, defendants kept singing like canaries and manufacturing cases against themselves.
No matter how bleak the situation seems to you at that moment, you should make no statement about the offense you are being charged with or investigated for until you have consulted with a lawyer. Do not consent to the search of your vehicle or your house, or anything that belongs to you until you consult with a lawyer.
But do not consent until you have talked to a lawyer. This requires courage, because the presence of the officer and his partners, and your uncertain situation, impels you to want to get on the right side of the officer. The situation is inherently intimidating. Do not believe a statement that the officer can get a warrant anyway. If he didn't want your consent, he wouldn't ask for it. Maybe he needs it, maybe he doesn't. You don't know. But, if you have the choice, and he has, after all asked you to make a choice, your choice is "With respect, officer, I'll have to decline to give that consent until I talk with a lawyer." You can give that response whether or not you have been advised of your rights.

Joe Obenberger is a Chicago Loop lawyer concentrating in the law of free expression and liberty under the United States Constitution. His firm has represented many owners, employees, and customers of adult-oriented businesses, both online and in the “real world”. His practice extends to First Amendment cases, municipal zoning and licensing, the law of privacy, criminal law and civil rights. He can be reached in the office at 312 558-6420 or paged at 312 250-4118 in any emergency. His e-mail address is [email protected]

OK Here's the update so far

The pics are not professionally done but well...I don't know how to explain this...the pics seem to fit with the emails and the manner she presents herself in both places...if that makes any sense

I got another email and she asks if I could get two rooms close by each other in the same hotel...one for her driver(she doesn't want to drive all that way by herself)...OK that's understandable but I'm kind of uncomfortable being responsible for a room for someone I don't know then finding out the next day the whole time I was with her the driver is running up an enormous bill in the other room or cleaning the room out before they check out the next day leaving ME with the bill

I wouldn't mind paying for the room then having the driver check in for his/herself...I'd still be way ahead if everything else goes the way I hope

The whole idea of a driver doesn't raise as much of a red flag as you might think since I can understand her point of view...I may be taking a risk with her(as you guys have so ably pointed out)but in the scheme of things she is taking a much bigger one meeting someone she doesn't know so far from home

The above paragraph was my little head talking...now my big head is gonna speak

Her having a driver and having him/her(probably him) close by raises possibilities of certain types of rip offs that COULD happen...is there anything I could do to lessen THOSE chances?

I know enough to make sure I don't have a pile of extra cash on hand or my CCs in my wallet in the room or in fact anything in the room I couldn't live without if the worst happened

Anything else or have the conditions so changed that even those who were wavering on if this was a good idea now firmly on the side that this is a baaad idea now with the addition of the driver into the mix?

-- Modified on 3/4/2004 8:44:09 AM

i.e you pay for a separate adjoining room for her driver ???????!!!!!!!!!????????
Are you F-ing nuts ????????

The possibilities for this ending badly for you are multiple !!!!
Let's see ...

1.  Very worst case.  Driver sneaks into your room thru adjoining door and robs you at gunpoint, shoots you so there are no witnesses. You are dead.  

2.  Bad case, not as bad as #1:  You get robbed of all your cash, credit cards, watch, car keys, etc. either by driver, or your cutie who escapes with conveniently located driver in adjacent room.

3.  Semi-bad case:  You give the 4-hour $$$$$$ amount envelope to cutie, who says, "I'll just give this to me driver next door for safe keeping, I'll be right back ..."  She, of course, exits thru the adjoining room door, obstenibly for just a moment, and ...... never returns, they're off to the next john at the next hotel.  At least you only lost your fee.

4.  A really bad case, where you keep your money, and lose everything elese, like your dignity, wife and kids:  The cutie is LE and the adjoining room for which you so generously and conveniently paid is used by the LE surveilience team who uses your paid-guest room to audio & video tape you and then use the adjoining room door to enter your room and arrest you.

The second room is going to be occupied by either her pimp or LE, neither of which is worth the risk.

i.e you pay for a separate adjoining room for her driver ???????!!!!!!!!!????????
Are you F-ing nuts ????????

The possibilities for this ending badly for you are multiple !!!!
Let's see ...

1.  Very worst case.  Driver sneaks into your room thru adjoining door and robs you at gunpoint, shoots you so there are no witnesses. You are dead.




First since it will be ME who reserves the room...close by means in the same wing of the hotel NOT the next room with a connecting door...I'll make sure of that




2.  Bad case, not as bad as #1:  You get robbed of all your cash, credit cards, watch, car keys, etc. either by driver, or your cutie who escapes with conveniently located driver in adjacent room.




Second since I am only reserving the other room the DRIVER is the one going to pay and SHOW HIS ID to the clerk to get the room

I will be standing there when he registers for the room to be sure he shows ID...no ID the deal is off(no money other than what his room cost will change hands UNTIL he registers)

I also will be at the hotel long before they can possibly get there...when they do...by then I will have nothing in the room I can't afford to lose if they are incredibly stupid and try something(except of course the fee)




3.  Semi-bad case:  You give the 4-hour $$$$$$ amount envelope to cutie, who says, "I'll just give this to me driver next door for safe keeping, I'll be right back ..."  She, of course, exits thru the adjoining room door, obstenibly for just a moment, and ...... never returns, they're off to the next john at the next hotel.  At least you only lost your fee.



This is covered by my last answer...if this happens then I have the drivers real name and address AND the motivation to use them




4.  A really bad case, where you keep your money, and lose everything elese, like your dignity, wife and kids:  The cutie is LE and the adjoining room for which you so generously and conveniently paid is used by the LE surveilience team who uses your paid-guest room to audio & video tape you and then use the adjoining room door to enter your room and arrest you.




I'm not currently married nor do I have a SO(no kids either)...I doubt for MANY reasons she will be LE...the rip off aspect is what I'm trying avoid

________________________________________________________________

OK now look...despite my having a "schwing" moment...I do tend to think with my BIG head(usually anyway)...hey no muttering from the peanut gallery

I want to do this BUT I also want to lessen any undo risks I may face...I think I have...sure it still has it's elements of risk but it's approaching the level of risks we take everytime we see someone new

I live in an area where there are few available providers and I have to think up ways to see who I'd like to see using a little creativity...alas you can't see the reviews I've put up here since I'm using an alias but if you could you'd see many of the ladies reviewed by me have never been reviewed by anyone until I saw them

I've had remarkable luck in getting ladies from relatively far away to come either to my city or even to my home and for the most part I would be delighted to see any of them again

In fact I have a review all ready to go up of a woman who drove 157 miles to see me in my hometown...I had a VERY nice time with this lady(she also had never been reviewed before)

Part of that is luck and part is how carefully I select who I choose to approach in the first place

I HAVE been ripped off before when I haven't taken the proper precautions...I'm not pretending to be sucessful 100% of the time

That's what this whole thread was about in the first place...what are my risks...what precautions should I take...is this even doable?

Right now I think my biggest risk is I show up and she doesn't and if that happens well there are REVIEWED ladies that are available in that town I can use as my back up

Since it is obvious you are gonna go ahead with this, be sure to let us all know how it turns out.

Think about it: If the gal WAS planning a robbery using an accomplice, what does she gain by letting littlehead know she is bringing a driver? Wouldn't she want to do everything in her power to lull the mark into complacency, rather than raising his suspicions as well as allowing him to take certain precautions? (e.g. -- watching the driver provide his ID to the desk clerk.) There are so many ways to plan the robbery without using an extra room or even letting littlhead know that she's bringing a "friend." Also, I can't imagine LE getting this elaborate. The fact that her safety seems to be a priority adds a degree of legitimacy to the scenario. It's still an extremely risky venture, however, and I'd proceed with EXTREME caution and abort the mission at the slighest hint .

OK Update time though I don't know if anyone is gonna see this now it's off the first page but anyway...

She agreed to have her driver register for his or herself...she understood my concerns and as an added bonus she told me she was appearing on the home page of another Yahoo Group for her area...apparently I wasn't the only one impressed by her

It's one thing to be a rip off girl but it's entirely another to have pics(with face showing) of yourself all over the net where you can be identified

We've set the day and time to meet and the place...now all I have to do is wait

I'll tell you what...if things go well after I get back I'll put up a picture of her here so you can see why I've gone to so much trouble to see his woman

"...therefore, clearly I could not have placed the poison drink in front of you!"