When a provider gives a client references, what kind of information do they share about you?  Is it just the, "yes I saw him and he's a nice guy" type thing, or do they give more than that?

thanks

Naw, they talk about your bad breath and how you sweet all over them and that big mole on your ass. Just kidding.
They talk about are you a decent guy, do you treat them well and are you good about paying them for their services.

I would expect many do just what you said, however I have seen providers who told me that my reference spoke very highly of me.  More than  "yes I saw him and he's a nice guy"

Because with an answer like that, some providers write back and say, ok give me some more detail about him, like what he looks like, where did you see him at, etc.

Also, if I didn't have a good time, I tell the ladies also. For example, he might be a bit rough or he likes greek, etc.

So I do try to warn the ladies if its a bad time and I tell them to enjoy themselves if I had a great time.

Shaye

What if it has been 4-5 months since you've seen
your reference? You are 6'0" tall,have brown hair,
and your name is Mike. Sometimes I wonder how they
could possibly come up with ANY credible info about
you specifically(sp?).Now I can understand if your
reference is your ATF,and she knows you personally.
But,what if you are one of those guys that doesn't
do repeats very often or at all? Do you get turned
down because your reference couldn't give any info
that was usable,because you look just like every
other guy she has seen for the last 4 months?

I know,alot of what if's,and questions.
Subjects like this one,have a tendency of making me
step out of the box,and look in from other angles.
Just my .02

If ladies are seeking references, I always add a YMMV disclaimer, at the end of my emails. Also I do provide little tidbits about him, which might make her company with him more enjoyable. Or, if he has a tendency to have stinky breath, an unwashed butt, I will tell her of my experience, but also add it doesn't mean that the same outcome will happen to her (goes back to YMMV).

Also I have a 6month limit. As time goes on, a person's memory does tend to fade. If a client tells a lady he had seen me more than 6 months , and I cannot remember him, I will ask the provider for him to email meh directly, and explain when, where, and how we met. If I find that I am still unable to remember him, then I will suggest to him that he should provide the provider with either an alternative reference or his employment info to her. I also tell the provider who is seeking, that she should ask for another provider reference, or his employment info for further screening.

As for me asking for references, I do ask, what can you tell me about this gentleman? Or, is there anything out of the ordinary, that I should know? I find that the added information, DOES help me along in making my decision to see him. I always want to be sure that I will be comfortable in meeting with every gentleman, who are inquiring to meet with me. If a provider writes to me, and just says, he is okay. the end. I will write her back for more info. For that could tell me that she really doesn't remember him, which warning bells will ring off in my head-which has happened before. I will then write him back, asking him for either another provider back up (if the provider refuses to give me more info), or his employment info for further screening. I need to always feel safe, in whatever environment, that I may go into.



-- Modified on 1/30/2004 12:32:26 PM

Why?

what about getting references from new providers with the chance that it is a sting.ive been reading the san diego messages

references and i tell the guys if they need a references feel free to give my name. all i say is yes he is cool. if he has a * by his name in my pink book i just say tell him hello for me. i do not get into what we did. then i say enjoy i did. we need to be safe and if i can help in any way i do.

Some providers only give the yes he's a nice guys sort of thing.  Others engage in a long discussion and give every detail they can remember including your social security number, visa card number and the mole on your left cheek. And others operate somewhere between the first two extremes.

Who gives detailed references?!?

I ask for them ALL THE TIME.

The most I get is, "have a good time" and maybe a general description for safety purposes!

I don't know who you are or what ladies you have contacted for references.  

I do know that there are several ladies that I no longer see because when used as referrals they provided much more information than "have a good time".  I do know that on several occasions I gave references to new ladies and they not only contacted the references given them but other ladies that I had reviewed for references without my knowledge.

As a result I seldom give references but when I do they are ladies that know how to be discreet and I never give out my TER review handle.  If asked I pretend that I have never heard of TER.

I am sorry but just getting back one sentence saying "yes he is fine" doesn't cut the mustard with me. Why should I just feel comfortable with a woman just saying" yep we met". For all I know you (in general)could have met with this woman many moons ago and the fact that she couldn't remember she was scared to say hey I don't remember him. Honestly I would rather have a woman be honest and say that does not remember you than to bullsh%t me around and put me in a situation that could be dangerous.  I don't know of any other woman out there who is in this business not looking to get caught would be comfortable with just a one liner. If a woman is serious about being safe she will always ask questions and nor should she ever feel uncomfortable in doing sofor her own safety. I am very adamant about asking questions about you (in general). No I don't need to know how many times you came,because you are a man and your penis is trained to cum. I am more concerned with whether or not you if  have a hygiene problem, or if you tend to be rough. If the lady writes me back saying he was nice but just to be on the safe side you might not agree with him wanting to be a submissive domme sticking a a finger up his aZZ or anything which may make me uncomfortable OR want to question him further on his needs. Also I don't know of any woman who asks for a social security number! Hell NOOOOOOOO..should any woman ask for one then she really needs to be out of the business.  It sounds like to me, that maybe a provider might have fessed up about you not being cleaned properly? Or maybe you were a bit rough with her but she still had a good time? Or, you might be a fellow who has a tendency to stay over the clock? Is there something that you are hiding? If not then you shouldn't worry about getting bad references then.
And what makes this so different than what you do (in general again) when you want to know more about the lady, and you back channel with the buddies, getting the inside scoop? All that is without the provider's persmission, but it's done anyways, correct? All of us providers do like to think that what happens between you and me stays between you and me. But lets face it it's all bullcrap. In reality, I can say "boo" to you, and you can let Tom/Dick/Harry who was seeking info about me, that I said boo to you. I don't see where getting a detailed reference about about me from a back channel buddy makes it any different from me getting a detailed reference about you from another provider.  To me, it eliminates the bad apples from the bowl of good ones (making sure that you are the stand up guy that you are stating to be when you are making an appt. to see me). Lets stop the b*tching and moaning, and lets all get real here. There will always be back channeling with the ladies and the gentlemen as long as there will always be escorts and johns. If a lady is afraid of the men back channeling about her then she needs to get out of the business. If the guy is afraid of the ladies back channeling about him, then maybe it's time that he went and brought an inflatible doll for a piece of plastic can't hear talk nor think.






-- Modified on 1/31/2004 5:57:26 AM

Well, our memories may not be that good, but if we had a bad client or one whom didn't pay as agreed we sure would remember that.... thus we'd not give a good reference.

Reon't you think that a lady needs to feel comfortable meeting with you???

I find it interesting how defensive and attacking your tone has become just because I will not provide all of the information that is on your wish list.

Why are you so angry?  What is your problem?  What I do works for me and I am able to see almost all of the ladies that I want to see.  I am not trying to get you to change your screening methods.  Are you afraid that a few guys may follow my example and you will not be able to get every salacious tidbit of information that you want on them.  

First of all I never had a woman complain about my hygiene or my being rough.  Any of the women that I have reviewed are willing to see me again including one that I gave very poor marks.  

Secondly I am not worried about bad references but just because I tell Provider A something does not mean I wish it broadcast to every other provider who happens to call for a reference.  That information might be screening information that I have given her that I will not give to other providers or other personal information.

Also guys do not have such a great back channel system.  In most cases the guy will tell you very little more than what is said in his review.  In some cases he will just refer you to that review.  And believe me if he does speak to you he is not going to tell you that he gave her a 9 - 9 when she is really  a 3 - 3 because he was afraid to give her a bad review.

I never said that a one sentence reference saying "yes he is fine" should be sufficient.  But since you bring that subject up two of the most respected female posters on this board made several posts this summer on this and the Los Angeles Board encouraging clients to provide references to providers because the only questions that needed to be asked were "Do you know him?" and "Would you be willing to see him again?"  

If we want some real fun I can hunt up those statements, mention the ladies names and we can liven up this discussion.  Based upon your statements it sounds like those ladies were less than candid about what information the ladies are really seeking.

In fact that lack of candor is one of the reasons that I protect my information in the manner described.  I have seen enough contradictory statements from providers that I question their veracity.  I don't know whether many providers are generally just less truthful than the average person or that they figure that if it is acceptable to lie to a "john" in bed and tell him how great he was it is acceptable to lie to him about everything.  Maybe you can tell us which it is ?

Since I don't need the inflatable doll maybe you should save it for the next hobbyist who is busted by his wife because a provider was not discreet.  After the divorce settlement it may be all he can afford.

Reon't you think that a lady needs to feel comfortable meeting with you???

Hi hon!

I think you misunderstand.  I do not ONLY rely on references.  All I want, ask for, and NEED to know when checking references:
1.  Gent was a gent when he saw other ladies
2.  Enough info to know the gent the ladies saw is the one I'm communicating with.

References are never enough by themself, but I speak with the gent about it... not other ladies!

Reon't you think that a lady needs to feel comfortable meeting with you???

I know this message wasn't for me, but your comment about contradictory statements and honesty...

What each lady does is different from one to the next, and sometimes ladies will change their protocol.  If you see inconsistencies... well yes!  Because there is not "one way" that works for every lady to feel secure.  This does not mean that they are dishonest.

Thank you for keeping this in mind before you question the integrity of a large pool of women.

Devie

Reon't you think that a lady needs to feel comfortable meeting with you???

I agree that what each lady does may be different from the next.

However if prominent ladies make general statements on this board as to how all ladies use the information and what information is requested in the referral process then I am only left with a limited number of ways to view these statements.

1. They are naive and presumptuous in pretending to speak in a general way for all ladies.

2. They are being intentionally dishonest and self serving in an attempt to persuade potential clients to provide this information without question to any provider because all providers use the referral information in the way that they describe.

Personally I dismiss as BS a lot of statements made on this board.  However I can concerned that newbies may actually think that what these ladies are saying should be regarded as the truth and that they have nothing to lose by blinding providing all of the information requested.  

I apologize if I have offended you but felt that is was appropriate to reply to 6monthsuareout in the same tone as she responded to me.


-- Modified on 2/1/2004 7:51:18 PM

Those who are inconsistent, show themselves to be naive, presumptuous, dishonest, or selfserving...
they generally show it in their posts.

Hey - we gotta' do our homework, whatever screening/reference checking that we feel we need for our safety.  So do you!  Pick your ladies well, after doing your reading and research.

I understand that someone in the cycle must TOFTT... but this is about decisions that each of us should made individually for our comfort and safety, in fact - it is a responsibility.

I'm not offended in the least.  
: )

Actually we almost agree.  I am doing what I feel I need to do to protect myself from ladies who might be indiscreet, etc and you are doing what you need to do to protect yourself from LE, bad actors, etc.

Apparently the only one who has a problem with that is 6monthsanduareout.  

Oh and yes it does matter somewhat between 1 and 2.  Although the result may be the same I tend to view someone who is being dishonest in a worse light than someone who is just naive.

-- Modified on 2/2/2004 1:00:54 AM

You know that saying "Thou protest too much", could really be applied to your case, since you were the one that brought up some issues in previous posts WHICH I only had responded to. So if a person responds to your threads, then that person is considered defensive? How sad (( I will only speak for myself here! Each lady has a way of screening, which may not reflect the entire the entire provider community. To be honest, nor do I want to be a "spokesperson" either. Because I care about my well being, I will do what is right for myself, by taking extra steps, going the extra mile, to make sure that I am walking into a safe and comfortable situation

-- Modified on 2/2/2004 2:24:39 AM

Yes, yes - I hear you.

In my personal life, it matters a great deal.  In my professional life not as much... I prefer to avoid both.

: )

I love references. They make life so much easier.
Thanks girls! I appreciate your help.