I cant understand why more hobbyists and providers dont utilize paypal.

- they have a good reputation (Economist magazine named them #1 internet payment method, & #1 method of choice for ebay users, etc)

- the provider doesnt get you credti card info, you pay paypal (by credit card, bank account etc) and they pay the provider on your behalf.

- all that shows up on your credit card statement is paypal

- u dont have to worry about the law, no cash ever changed hands, and that seems to be the main point at which providers say they can get caught, i.e. the cash changing hands.

- Its easy to sign up and use.

I love it. I just walk in, enjoy my session and walk out.

Just be sure you read the PayPal privacy policy, and consider that this hobby is an illegal activity.

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/privacy-outside

3. We disclose information that we in good faith believe is appropriate to cooperate in investigations of fraud or other illegal activity.

4. We disclose information in response to a subpoena, warrant, court order, levy, attachment, order of a court-appointed receiver or other comparable legal process, including subpoenas from private parties in a civil action.

Bottom line is Paypal leaves a trail that can be disclosed and used as evidence in a court of law.

The prostitution law refers to "sex for money", not "sex for cash".  I'm sure that "sex for paypal" can be prosecuted.

Anyone who would use paypal is entering into heaven knows what. They don't even have a number or address on their site. Thus, they aren't accountable.

I would never deal with a company that didn't have a street address. One can assume it's 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

HB

and inferences, and problems of which you are not aware, but right now am recovering from an awesome bbjteoku by a naughty Netherlandisch ultravixen who also forced too many ounces of champagne upon my innocent soul. LOL.
As usual Heather is curvy and way ahead of the curve.
The Unholy Father
Professor of Evidence Emeritus, and
woefully dehydrated.

It's great for deposits!  I've been making and accepting payments through PayPal for a year and a half and have never had a problem.  Not even a chargeback.

While I disagree that it will keep you out of legal trouble (this is definitely "money or other consideration"), I agree with your other points that it's safe and convenient for both the client and the provider.  In addition to the client not having to give the provider his credit card info and the discretion of having his credit card billed only as "PayPal", as you pointed out,

--he doesn't have to carry as much cash with him when he sees her, which can be good for both him and her,

--no one has to go pick up the payment, whether it be to her or a refund from her, at a payment location, as you do with Western Union or with overnight-type deliveries,

--the transaction is instantaneous, so she knows right away which potential clients are serious and which aren't.  Fewer no-shows could make her less likely to overbook appointments.

Long live PayPal!

-- Modified on 5/18/2002 8:59:22 PM

Paypal is good for buying cd's and software. I like less of a paper (or electronic) trail when I am contracting for other things.

...I prefer not to have my money floating around in cyberspace--I'd rather just leave it on the dresser.

-- Modified on 5/18/2002 10:29:58 PM

or who need to send a deposit, PayPal is a great tool.  Some people want no paper trail, and I allow clients who do not want to use PayPal to send me a cash deposit.  It's not for everyone, but I also don't think it's just for idiots, as Heather seems to be saying.

the key, I believe is offering options. there are as many opinions about online transactions/paypal as there are tastes.
I've lost business by NOT having paypal/online credit options !Never thought I'd see the day that I'd consider using paypal; but after talking to quite a few people, decided to use it as an OPTION for CERTAIN things.  For local one hour or two hour bookings, I agree it doesnt make sense.  

For touring deposits (yes, either that or fedex cash/mo - again, options) an online merchandise store (you can also send me a m.0.), or to a membership section on a site. (Of course, some men have no interest in buying a membership to a site, wont pay a deposit on a touring girl, hate fedex, etc.)  

Regardng security risks....

Gents, just do what you  feel comfortable doing  that reminds me, I need to put info about money order payments in my paypal section as an option.  )

Let me go so far as to say that some clients are so concerned that they wont even use email for booking an appointment except for initial contact, and then want everything by phone after that.

I've even had some clients who are worried about using the phone. We are all comfortable with different things at different points in time .... or ..... never.  hehehe.

Good question Mr. Soze.  I did a survey on this, but I didnt think to ask on the boards...

xoxo

ff

Celebrate life.



-- Modified on 5/19/2002 12:08:44 AM

Because I firmly believe that knowing is half the battle... and please don't come back and say "Well that hasn't happened to ME!" It hasn't happened to me either, altho I use paypal very rarely, but the bottom line is it COULD. Paypal is NOT a bank although they are presenting themselves as one, and as such is NOT subject to federal regulations or the restraints and safety systems of banks.

I love the salon article as a start, they sum it up verrrry well...
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/02/23/pay_pal/

http://www.paypalwarning.com/
http://www.paypalsucks.com
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/

Go to any search engine and plug in paypal, or paypal complaint, and see what you find. It's better to KNOW ahead of time!

Hugs*
Nicole

This thread is a real education for me, across the spectrum of analysis, pros, cons, and more. Thank you, especially you very smart women with pouty lips. LOL. The Sexy Curves cites are a MUST READ for a reality check on PayPal.
These are my two cents as an Evidence Professor Emeritus with a bit of paranoia.
I have never used PayPal and stick with cash and phone cards or  untraceable cell phones, so I've missed a few fine experiences with vixens who require deposits. Ronnie, Diana, Heather (which Heather would that be?){Gotta write an article - All of the Heathers on Eros - LOL}
A deposit is Exhibit "A" at your divorce or solicitation trial, or tax audit, or job firing.
If it is paid to Pay Pal, that is only one small step to proving the ultimate recipient. That's easy for a skilled prosecutor or hostile divorce lawer. Especially because Pay Pal does not fight subpoenas and is not offshore. They hand the information, files, and records over to avoid the hassle and expense of lawyering up. AOL is the worst about that. Paralegals can create and serve subpoenas in an hour, like the pizza people. Ignore it and you share a cell with Tyrone, or Big Vixen the SuperDyke.
Prepaid cell phones, phonecards, and cash-only offer enough anonymity that I prefer them, a new one every month, with the address as the Archdiocese Office, Heterosexual Division. They'll never notice or find it if they do. You might also give the return addresses of selected individuals such as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and a whole list of very bad dickless right wingers.
Deposits, e-mails, checks of any kind, ATM withdrawals, CCs, phone records, are all retrievable evidence that can f**k up your life big time.

You don't have to be a litigator to use FindLaw.com and it's free. Go to Cases & Codes. Click on all Circuits, meaning all of the US Courts of Appeal in the United States. Search "Prostitution."
You will retrieve the last 100 federal appeals involving prostitution directly or indirectly. That translates into 20X as many federal prosecutions, and 100X state prosecutions. Federal appeals are the tip of the iceburg.
Read a few of the decisions, looking for what kind of evidence the feds used: Credit Cards, phone records, coerced witnesses.
Read about how they confiscate your assets.
1/ The IDEA. A PayPal alternative, with offshore banking and server in a nice resort country that has no US tax treaties. Then the US Feds cannot subpoena records of the transaction, or even get close to the records. You use Chinese boxes within boxes to hide the actual physical server itself in the mysterious country, so even they cannot find it physically.
2/ You give it a name that evokes no suspicions, the Jesus Fund, Holy Transactions, Science, Nature, the Vixen Fund, etc.
Actually you give it a boring name of the kind that evokes zero suspicion, something everyone buys, i.e., VITAMINS ONLINE maybe, AEROBIC INFO, FITNESS, or AWESOME BLOWJOBS.  LOL.
3/ You can then serve the escort industry, and many others in time.
4/ You move the enterprise around every 18 months to avoid any remote chance of detection.
5/ Encryption and multinational multi-banking make it even safer.
You keep the transactions in low dollar amounts so tight-asses do not whine and worry that a $75 deposit is lost or delayed.
Tight ass military retirees in San Antonio and civil servants looking for $39 bjs are a much bigger problem than the FBI!

As to Pay Pal, I suspect their days are numbered and their usefulness is especially weak in the adult field.
They will not fight and delay subpoenas! They might as well be informants. They may be better than nothing, but a few pals and I will explore this offshore idea because the risks can be very low and the benefits far beyond Pay Pal. Belize and St Lucia are nice.

-- Modified on 5/19/2002 12:35:25 PM

I'd rather move to a country in which prostitution is legal and not worry about it anymore.  Or just stick with cash and phone cards.

-- Modified on 5/19/2002 11:57:36 AM

but that's just the point, I dont know about u, but I have never broken the law. My payments are solely for time shared - anything else occuring is between 2 consenting adults, and not to be construed as payment for sex in any way shape or form.

Cmono guys, use your heads.

http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=1&Page=1&Messageid=41192

I was going to use IBill or ccBill, but heard of dissatisfaction on both, now I ask myself what to do ...?  I ask you because I believe you said that you work on websites in some capacity ...  My own webmistress uses IBill.

Personally I prefer no online transactions, however there are some things that will necessitate using an online provider. i was going to use paypal...

thanks.

FF



-- Modified on 5/20/2002 12:31:49 AM

I have a little idea involving a web payment processor, deposits, and a website. I'm wondering how gentlemen would feel about paying for a deposit by paying say, $50 for a lifetime membership to a porn site I would create... and that $50 would not only gain them access to the website, but also be applied to their first appointment. Guys, what would you think of something like that? Believe me when I say that I can make a website you would *enjoy!* hehe!

I have used Ibill... they were WONDERFUL for me, let me tell you that years ago I broke up with a boyfriend who had done some work with me on one of my best websites... and he tried very, very hard to steal my income from the web right out from under me. Ibill handled it incredibly professionally, had their lawyers in touch with me, and basically told him to take a flying leap.  I will always love them for that! They are indeed reliable and you will get your money from them. Charges from those companies come thru on a credit card as something like "Ibill LLC" and don't say anything "fishy".  I also like Globill (http://www.globill-systems.com) a lot and I use them now... I switched a few years ago primarily because they had the capability to handle passwords sooner than Ibill did, but I believe they BOTH can do it now, are similarly priced, and it's six of one half a dozen of the other, kinda thing with them now.  

Love to hear feedback! Especially from you guys with legal concerns because there actually would be a tangible *product* so to speak, sold here... the website!

Hugs*
Nicole

There are some online alternatives to PayPal, and some that DO use the offshore idea...
http://www.paypalwarning.com/Alternatives/Default.htm
http://www.paypalsucks.com/options.shtml

Hugs*
Nicole

I think it's prudent not to keep a large balance in a PayPal account, so that if there is a problem and they freeze the account, one's cash flow isn't severely affected.

These risks affect the receiver, not the sender, so in my case I am the one at risk and not the client.  A client always faces some risk when sending a deposit to a provider by any means, but that's another topic.  

There are risks with cash, too.  It can be stolen from me, it can be counterfeit, and I can be short-changed.  This business is fraught with risks, and each of us decides which ones we're willing to take.

I still think PayPal is a great tool and poses minimal risk if used responsibly.  I am careful about from whom I accept payments.  I ask for a deposit IN ADDITION to my usual careful screening, and I require a confirmed billing address.  As I wrote before, I have never had a charge back.  

I'm open to suggestions for alternative ways to transfer money online, too.

BTW, I had no difficulty finding PayPal's customer service number the other day when I needed to contact them for help (that they "hide" the phone number is a common complaint on those sites you listed).  However, when one is upset, I'm sure it can be more difficult.  They do steer you to try to find the answer to your question in the Help section before you call or write to them, but that is not unreasonable, and they navigate you through it well.  I called them twice, and they answered quickly both times and were very helpful.

I dropped PayPal (I only used it as a purchaser, not a merchant - I don't sell my stuff - I only acquire) immediately upon their request for "intrusive information" and their insistence on starting to extract $$$ from my checking account despite the fact that I have never, ever contested a charge.  (I've been lucky.  I never had to.)

All you PayPal fans better read all 4 links.

problem is... it's not really your opinions on breaking the law and the purpose of the payment that count, but the Judge/jury's.