I am a rather congenial guy and I will talk to almost anybody, including women that I have ZERO interest in sexually. What I find hilarious is that they really think that I am interested in them just because I am nice to them and engage them in conversation, many of them are shocked when either I don't hit on them or even worse, when I turn down their advances.

and yes, I own a mirror and I know damn well that I will never be on the cover of GQ, but I guess when you are over fifty and you still have most of your hair, all of your teeth, and are financially secure, that makes you "A Catch"

No Russ, you are not alone.

but maybe I'm just oblivious to it all.

I identify as a nerdish type and had few friends in school, and in fact I'm still a loner and homebody.

But I agree that the hobby gives an amazing amount of freedom in the social regard.

The only time I do recall that women seemed to throw themselves (more or less) at me is when I was married (Married for 20 years and divorced for the last 12.)  I never succumbed to the temptation and thank the hobby for giving me the backbone.  (Among other bones.)

I've always been a nerd, never been one of the "cool kids" and that's perfectly fine. I couldn't participate in High School extra curricular activities, because I had to work, been working a real job since I was 14. Not that I ever wanted for anything sustenance wise, my Mom provided a roof over my head and food in my belly but if I wanted something, like a car when I turned 16 I had to work and save up and buy it with my own money, which I did. But I was not popular in High School, I went on very few dates and I was never in demand. I was fortunate enough in College to have a girlfriend (also a bookish type, but she was quietly sexy) who used me as her personal sex toy, damn she was one cool woman. So, a common theme in my life has been that I've never been a "cool kid".

The reason I bring that all up and explained it all is that now I'm 50, a transplant to a small town in the deep south. And, guess what? Now I'm in demand. I joined a Country Club when I got down here last May, I'm not Country Club material but it's the only nice Golf course within a 45 minute drive. So anyway, they had the annual kick off celebration last night and oh my goodness. You should have seen all the (I'll call them career wives) they were "presenting". I had a permanent smile on my face last night and not because I was one of the guys being presented to but because I was fighting back laughter "at" these stupid bitches. One of the member's wife said to me, "my you are smiling a lot tonight", lmao, if she only knew I was laughing at them on the inside. These are the same cheerleaders or cool girls in High school that wouldn't look twice at me. You see if it weren't for the hobby, I'd have to settle for one of these golddiggers. But now, I can just ignore their presenting, and the best part is, that they can't figure it out. They all know where I work and where I live, the nosey people down here, just a bunch of busy bodies. They all know I'm single and not dating, so it just seems to be baffling them as to why I'm not falling all over myself to flirt with them. The hobby is their kryptonite. I know I probably shouldn't get so much amusement from this, but I do.

So, do any of you other guys find that the hobby allows you to not have to settle for the golddigging bitches you'd otherwise have to settle for? I know, I know some of you guys in here are gorgeous hunks who can get any woman anytime he wants, but in reality there are those of us who can't. I get to spend time with beautiful, hot women who rock my world for a given amount of time for a given amount of money, and I absolutely no doubt, know what their motivation is. No hidden agenda, and they make me feel like a King for a short period of time. And then it's "good night sweetheart, see you next time". No bullshit, no drama.

Damn, I love the hobby, I feel empowered.

Happy Hobbying.

Yes, thank God for the hobby and the beautiful ladies (and yes great conversations) I have had have made me more confident in my life and allowed me to open up as a person once the ice is broken.  Only problem I have is doing that with civvies.  Its breaking that ice and moving from great friend to great lover that was always my challenge.  With a provider its easy.  Everyone knows what's going to happen, it happens and we all go home either satisfied (me) or slightly richer (herlay.  I can spin a story, tell a joke, talk to strangers, but try to get laid, hah, yeah right.  Providers don't need that step.  Its a phone call/text/email and we've bridged the gap.

I can relate to this strongly from the other side of the coin. I cannot tell you how many wealthy men in the ‘civvie’ world expect that an attractive young woman will be impressed by their status and vie for their affections. Maybe in another life I would have been but like you, I stand back and giggle and watch the confusion when I fail to sharpen my pickaxe and dig. I enjoy getting to sample such gentlemen without the maintenance and dating nonsense.
This world does bring a sense of balance and calmness to your personal life and I am thankful for that. It helps me keep things in perspective and reminds me of how truly happy I am to be single, happy, and free.
Well, not quite ‘free’- pun intended . Lol.

S

However I wouldn't exactly be clicking my heels about pulling the wool over anyone's eyes either.  Remember you are paying the hookers to tell you how great you are.  Nothing wrong with buying the illusion...but it's still just an illusion.

Maybe try and "pick up" one of these career wives wannabe's and see if you really have learned anything by consorting with prostitutes.  You may actually be surprised that many of those career wives in training are just as lonely as you seem to be.  And nothing wrong with really gaining some confidence in fucking for free a civvy gal.  Of course others may suggest it's not free...but you won't be dropping an envelope per se.  And she won't be lying to you about what a stud you are...unless there is a modicum of truth in it.

Finding gals to fuck or just to be pals with was never an issue for me.  But then I'm a pretty outgoing sort who isn't afraid of the occasional rejection either.  Frankly some of my favorite gals here have never gotten a nickel from me for a session.  Others have morphed into the "let's do lunch" gals after we had met for a session.  While others I still greedily am happy to pay for a fuck...and of course the OTC lunch.

It amazes me how many dudes seem to have very little game with the gals...and I suspect people in general.  Don't be the schmuck sitting in the corner smirking at the gals who are showing an interest in you because you're now afraid to make conversation with them.  What you don't need to do is fuck them...that much you know you can do without the drama (in most cases anyhow  LOL).

Simply to think that the gals here are so mesmerized with you is just an illusion more often than not.  If you want to know who the gal really is here...she's quite often going to be no different than a civvy gal with all the issues that surround that.  Go for it russ...life's way too short to be afraid.

but I never dated the super-popular cheerleader-types. Didn't want to, either!! (one exception)

But you are right... there are soooo many women out there looking and they are much more aggressive about it than ever, I think. I don't see them all as golddiggers, but it is kind of interesting to see the tables turned a bit.

I enjoy the attention, and I guess I am much more aware of it now, if it ever truly existed before.  

I don't prefer providers over civvies, or civvies over providers. I simply prefer the women I like, the ones whose company I enjoy, and I'll choose those over the others every time.  

Good thread!

So long as they were petite and tiny.  And there seemed to be no shortage of them in HS or college.

And this one looks like she is all about the "Bucs". They always are.

never went for the ones who were interested in nothing but status and their own sense of self-importance. I guess the same holds true today.

And isn't the lack of a shortage of hotties the whole point? You can find them in shallow and vapid, or intelligent and deep. And you can choose, whether within the hobby or outside the hobby.

Nah...I'll bet they'd be fun at parties...gals like these always seemed to like parties.

This has happened between you and I before, so I'll admit I may not be as articulate as I'd like to be.

Allow me to be clear, by stating so, I don't want anything to do with these career wives, nothing! I didn't go to the Annual Kickoff event to mingle with these gold digging bitches. If they didn't know where I work and where I live, they wouldn't be presenting to me. They think because they have a pussy, that they have a chance of getting half of my portfolio and pension. It's not happening.

I don't have confidence issues, I talk to people all the time, women, including good looking women, but because of the hobby (their kryptonite) they don't get any attention from me other than professional and/or friendliness and as GaGambler mentioned "many of them are shocked when either I don't hit on them or even worse, when I turn down their advances". I was not sitting in the corner smirking, I was nearly openly laughing in their golddigging faces as they attempted to present to me and the few other single members. I did make conversation with them and others, I am not at all shy or even reserved, but it was clear that their presenting wasn't working for them as they had planned. I don't need or want to play their stupid games or listen to their bullshit and drama to get laid.

Let me perfectly clear about something else, I have no illusions that any of the women in here are mesmerized by me or anything of the like. I don't really want OTC time, because that comes with a price, perhaps not directly but a price none the less. You may want to refer to my original post  
"I get to spend time with beautiful, hot women who rock my world for a given amount of time for a given amount of money, and I absolutely no doubt, know what their motivation is. No hidden agenda, and they make me feel like a King for a short period of time. And then it's "good night sweetheart, see you next time". No bullshit, no drama". I don't think they want anything more than the envelope, and that's fucking perfect!

I don't like the thrill of the chase, the guys that are good at picking women up in bars are good at being someone they are not. I am me, I'm very happy with who I am. But I'm terrible at being someone that I'm not, so I don't do well in that environment. So, in the hobby I get what I want, for as long as I want, with who I want and different women for a set amount. Dude, you know this, you are paying for pussy either way, why not just get the paying up front and know how much. Let's say I pick a woman up in a bar (which as I've stated I'm not good at because I won't try to be someone I'm not just to get laid), but let's say I did, she goes home with me, we have sex and then she wants to call me all the time or spend time with me all the time and I have to listen to her bullshit and drama and I can't see other women. Fuck that! I've been married, it ain't happening again.

Ultra ribbed, for maximum pleasure.

unless you met them..talked and maybe dated a few times.

I found that the "unapproachable" gals were the ones that were indeed fun to be with.  But that's just how I played...then and now.

If I got bored with them...on to the next one(s).  And there is never a shortage of hot gals looking for "fun".

What I found in college was that I was more interested in the gymnasts and dancers than the cheerleader types.  Funny that I'm still more interested in that today all these years later.  And if they provide good stories and entertainment...what more could you ask for?

I can relate to you GaGambler.  While I do not harbor disdain toward women in general, there have been times, where a poster with the following phrase would have been appropriate:  "Just because I am carrying a sincere conversation with you, DOES NOT MEAN, I want to SLEEP with you"!  For the most part, I have always been accepted by my peers.  Never been considered cool, but not a nerd either. Just out there with a twisted sense of humor.  Very comfortable now in my own skin. Remember,  I cannot offer you legal advice, but TheGovernor can offer you an unconditional pardon!

But I also have never suggested that you need to marry..or date anyone either.

Simply that mocking those women is infantile.  And it's self-serving to bolster your confidence.

But since you aren't seeing it that way...perhaps I did misread it  LOL

I thought you were gone for good, Jan 2012 was a good month for me, I had the opportunity to meet you. You are/were one of the wonderful women that have given me the kryptonite. I cannot express in words how thankful I am to you lovely ladies because I too am "truly happy I am to be single, happy, and free".

Life in the hobby is wonderful.

were often the ones with fewest dates on the weekends... 'cause all the dudes were afraid to ask them out

I don't take myself that seriously. Evidently, you think I was mocking these women, and you are entitled to your opinion. I don't see it as mocking, I see it as they don't have the power that they once may have had on me or that they do have with the other single guys and it confuses them, I find that very funny. But I don't see how that mocks them. I was there to be social as that was the kind of event that it was, I was social. They are there to get their hooks into someone that they know is successful. I volunteer a lot, for many different causes and the women that I interact with at volunteering events don't act or put on an act like these career wives do, they are themselves and nice because they are doing good for someone else that needs their help. See the women I've met volunteering don't have the same agenda as the CC career wives. One of these women at the CC has been married to 3 different men who were successful and has taken all 3 to the cleaners (I only know that because some of the golfers warned me about her shortly after I joined). She is getting older now and she's losing the attractiveness that got her the previous 3 marriages, so yes, I laugh at her when she presents to me, because she ain't getting anywhere with it, I don't need what she's selling. This was my point, apparently you missed that, and it seems that many other people didn't miss that. So perhaps your perception is the problem and not my articulation.  

As far as the infantile bolstering of my self confidence, I don't need to. I am perfectly happy with who I am, where I came from and where I'm going. Confidence is high sir (old military saying). I worked damn hard for everything I have in life. I'm in a totally different social class than I started life at but I remember, clearly, where I came from. I personally think it's infantile of these CC ladies to think that just because the have a pussy and they came from money that they somehow deserve to get their hooks into a successful guy so that they don't have to work and support themselves.  

That's my opinion, I didn't charge you for it and that's what its worth.

Neither was anyone else wasn't a "cool kid". So what?  

And now, when women are nice to you your response is:  fck those stupid gold-digging bitches I can pay for it any time I want? Congrats.  

Without having seen any of the interaction you reference, who knows what was happening; maybe there was some ulterior motive on these women's part, and maybe not. Given generally expected social conventions, in small towns, in the south, and in a country club fer christ's sake, what you're interpreting as all of these women wanting you could simply be women being friendly and polite in a social setting. The equivalent of the ubiquitous southern 'bless his heart...."  

And even if every single one of them really wants to ravish you there's no need for the 'stupid bitches' thing.  
You're not 14 anymore.

And continued to interpret what Russ was saying in subsequent posts.

I feel that no one has any power over me unless I give them that power.  I think that's what Russ is finally discovering...although nearly forty years later than he should have.

The two of you seem to have the same perception.

But to answer your statement about these women being nice, friendly or polite in a social setting. I can assure you that my observations are correct. The CC ladies association are the ones responsible for placing people at their tables for dinner (this process is much like when you go to a wedding) and the single members were put at the same table and the single goldiggers were parading or as I like to put it presenting to us. these golddiggers are just that, they weren't being nice, friendly or polite to be so, they had an agenda. When you go to buy a car and the salesman is super nice and attentive almost syrupy, do you think he really cares how your day is going or what your interests are? No, if you do think he's being nice and attentive for any other reason than to sell you a car you're a fool. The exact same attitude is what I and the other single newbies at the CC experienced, in fact we discussed it, so it's not just my observation, it's others as well. These women are just as I described, career wives, they came from money or married into and divorced out of money and they don't want to have to work, succeed or support themselves so they want to get their hooks into some unsuspecting single guy. I think that attempt at deception is despicable. I have no illusions that the women in the hobby want anything more than the envelope, and they are working and supporting themselves and working towards their future success and not latching on to some guy like a leach. We have appointments for a prescribed time and amount and then we go our separate ways, the motivation is clear for both parties. No drama, no bullshit and no hidden agenda.

In the country club presentation you spoke of, did you avoid involvement with the career wives because none of them seemed particularly attractive, not your type, that sort of reaction? Or did you remain aloof (my interpretation, without any basis except my picturing the situation)... did you remain aloof from them out of resolve that you did not want to have any relationship with them BECAUSE they were the career wives in that social situation?

I've recently seen some of the women that I found absolutely stunning in my younger days, and NOW they are not really "sexually attractive" to me at all. They still are very interesting people, and maybe that's because their careers keep them in long-distance contact with each other. But, when we were working together, I slept with a couple of them and wanted to sleep with a few more. It's not due much to aging, it's something else. Kind of growing away from them (my career changed drastically, and I don't visit the home city very often), and MAYBE it's because through our current lifestyle (hobby-- I don't really like referring to it that way... But I digress as usual-- and nowadays I can enjoy fantasies with women of any variation of beauty that I want.

If your reaction applies to the first question-- you just didn't see anyone you thought you'd click with or who you couldn't see being very exciting in bed-- then you might consider being open to OTHER social situations where you stand a chance of getting to know women who you're not likely to meet at the country club. You know, maybe slum it a little, not bars, but... you'll find a place where women go with the hope of meeting sensible gentlemen. Even in the Deep South there's gotta be some outlet. Church? You'll find it.

If it's because of the second reason-- you resolved ahead of time to not attach yourself to anyone at the club-- that's something else. Often it's wise to not get attached to anyone in a group of people you'll have future dealings with.

BUT, IMO, I think it would be kind of sad if your experiences with escorts (and mine, since we're in the same ship of fools here), is in effect preventing you from simple human relationships (including the possibility of sex) with women you interact with in your albeit new social scene.

I'd like to read your response.

Thank you very much. That was very nice to hear. I am still very much around and well.  
Cheers to people like us!

SW

In the same small southern town, when I've socialized with women during my volunteer work they've treated me just like another person, which is all that I want or could ask for. The volunteer women don't know where I live, where I work (although a Yankee in this small town it's probably assumed) they don't know how financially successful I am. I don't drive a flashy car or wear designer clothes, I could, but those kinds of things don't interest me. So these ladies are being nice and friendly because it's who they are. These are the kind of women that I could over time end up dating to some extent. There doesn't seem to be a hidden agenda.

Conversely, the women at the CC know where I work, where I live and they have a pretty good idea based upon that information how financially secure I am. They are syrupy nice and friendly and it's very clear to myself and two other of the single CC newbies that they have an agenda. So yes, that makes them stupid bitches, or perhaps smart because it might work on some guys. But I don't need what they are selling, because of the hobby, so it's their kryptonite.

It was fun talking to the both of you, it filled up my evening and I enjoy a good debate and/or difference of opinion. Allow me to be perfectly clear, I don't care one ounce what either of you thinks of me. As I said I was never one of the cool kids (that's OK too because if everyone were cool, then nobody would be) and I got over not being a cool kid long ago, getting over that small  adversity has made me the person I am today. Two of the cool kids from my High School are in prison and another one (High School Starting QB) is a heroine addict, so I'm good with how I turned out.

I'd say primarily that I was aloof with them because of the second reason. Some of them were still attractive. But, they were syrupy nice, friendly and polite like a Car Salesman is when you go to a dealership to buy a car. I and two of the other single newbies noticed the parading and presenting of these career wives, so it wasn't just my interpretation/observation. I fairly confident that the other guys don't have the kryptonite of the hobby. My apprehension (for lack of a better word) is that they know where I work and where I live and because of that information they have a pretty good idea of my financial success/security and they are being too nice and too attentive like a car salesman would be. If anyone goes to buy a car and think the car salesman really cares how your day is going or what your interests are then you're simply a fool. The car salesman only cares about making the sale and they'll make any false promise or statement they can to achieve the sale. So, when these career wives remind me of a car salesman, I put them at more than arms length.

I added in another response to a post that I've met women through my volunteer work who don't know where I live or where I work, and I don't drive a flashy car or wear designer clothes and so those women have no idea of my financial success and they just treat me like a normal person and have no hidden agendas. I'd be interested in developing some kind of relationship over time with this kind of woman, but not the CC women. I'm not a particularly good looking man (that's in no way being insecure, if everyone was beautiful, then no one would be beautiful). So these CC women trying to impress me or give me extra attention (flirting) is motivated by a different agenda. They are either from money or married into and divorced men of money, so they are looking for another fine dining meal ticket, and that's not going to be me.

I came from humble beginnings and I know how people in that life are treated, now I live a much more comfortable life and so I recognize when someone is treating you with kindness and politeness because that's who they are and when someone is doing so because they know you have something and the want to get that something from you.

Or so I thought. I got out of my marriage for $225 and half of everything (she got my dog though, sniff, I miss my dog), I consider myself a very lucky man and I can assure you I'll NEVER enter into that bullshit union again. That's a lose/lose for men and a win/win for women. After the vows, she can deny the husband sex, or dish it out in small chunks using it like a tool to get her way or get the husband to do things and there's nothing the man can do but divorce her and lose half of everything including his portfolio and pension. No, I don't think, or I guess I should say I know I won't fall for that bullshit again. I worked too hard all my life for what I have, when I die it's all going St. Judes Children hospital, nobody else gets any of it unless I put it in an envelope.

my wonderful experiences with escorts do not prevent me from simple human relationships (including the possibility of sex) with women that I interact with in my new social scene. Perhaps some of these ladies that I'm volunteering with who don't know my financial situation and who treat me like a regular person I could see myself reaching out to, I would however put the hobby on hiatus if I met and started dating someone.

But, I am not a man of faith, so the meeting of women will not happen at Church.

If the hottest women in your town are country club wives ,  that sounds like a horridly  
  depressing place to live , or your  country club members  are Rock stars .  
   I've noticed the best looking women in most country clubs work for the caterers .  
     
If I was in your shoes I wouldn't waste my time fraternizing with desperate house wives , I'd peek in the kitchen and find some extra fine thighs .  
   
  I'm certainly no gorgeous hunk but I would be downsizing if I had to act rich to find a Hot woman .  

  It's good you love the hobby , enjoy your empowered feeling ,  until death do you part .

  Or , with a bit more practicing your game  with the Stepford wives , you might be ready to come out  
into the real  World .
 
   I don't know if you realize it or not , some women you might think are stupid ,are a whole lot wiser than you  , lol probably most of them .  Don't forget about the mind readers .  

  Until then , enjoy your life the best way you  can ..
  Once it's gone ,  no rewinding .  

 
   
     
     -- Modified on 3/17/2014 12:07:42 AM

...and I know that feeling of disdain for those born into better conditions.

Of course these women are going to present themselves as available and as such they with to some degree flirt with you.  When you were 14 and working while getting an education, they were playing dress-up and having slumber parties with their elite group, giggling about guys and coaching each other on how women use their wiles to lure, seduce, and still keep their suiters at a respectable distance. It is as natural to then as cleaning up a workroom and clocking out is to you.

That is what they feel compelled to do in order to survive. They cloak their survival terms of ambition and respectability, but in the end it's the same struggle as the homeless trying to keep their body temperature sufficiently warm through the night. Although we understand this aspect of their inner lives, they never show, mustn't show it, and as gentlemen we are obliged to pretend that we don't see it. That alone makes us subservient to them, buying the lie that is buried so deeply in them that they are able to forget about it. But that's just how it is. You can't punish a dog for being a dog or a horse for being a horse, and you can't punish a rich twit's woman for being a rich twit's woman. We can only resent them, and that means recanting wealth, and we learn ways to fight back. Getting some of their money is one way, showing disdain for money by drinking, gambling, and whoring is another way that seems to work.

You really might seriously consider seeking out female companionship from the shop women and office girls in the town. Women who also are struggling to keep body and soul together, but who understand the struggle in the same terms you do. I know too well that urge to date the rich kids and have all the toys, but in my experience, going back to the poor side of town and connecting with the women there is far more rewarding. And the "hobby" is there so we don't have to be anxious or needy. It's like having some money in a fund that you can draw on when needed, but still playing the game of not drawing on it except when necessary.

It must be rough going through all this down south. The people there are... Well you know how they are better than I do.

Good luck, Russ. Get a good night's sleep.

Yeah, I kind of thought that from a thread awhile back. I'm hardly a man of faith myself. If any of the women you volunteer with seem attractive, I'd say go for it. That's the other problem. The women available aren't always that sultry and alluring. It's an interesting puzzle, isn't it.

I won't date civvies.  I don't want a relationship in the traditional sense.  I've busted out of two marriages and am not interested in a third.
That said, I do like having relationships with compatible women.  But the women with whom I'm compatible are hookers.
So I book with gals I think are hot, and if we click, more can happen and sometimes does.  
Unlike civvies, we get the sex out of the way first.  Works for me.
I believe April is "Take a Hooker to Dinner Month."  I believe all the other months are, too.
Just remember my #1 rule: I will happily pay you for sex.  I will happily buy you dinner. I just will not pay to watch you eat it.
If you can buy into that, we're all good.  I am very lucky so many girls are fine with this.
Bottom line: who needs civvies?

...was a blonde. I looked at your reviews. All of them had blond hair. I'm guessing you try to relive that experience with the women you select. That's a beautiful "illusion," isn't it.

You worry too much.  It will not help you walk on air.
Hint: you are not here to find women who will make you walk on air.  You are here to find women who will give you hot sex if you pay them money.  If you don't know the difference between these two concepts you are:
1) stupid
2) disappointed

You would have said that the world turns turns due to spherical angular momentum sustaining the rotation in frictionless space.

But do you really think being a certified nerd has anything to do with not getting a girl / anti-social?  Nerdy does NOT equal any of that. I blended with many crowds in HS: cool crowd, fashion show crowd, nerdy crowd. I'm a nerdy guy but ever since I had pubic hair I had no problems getting a date in hs/college. I did accidentally burnt some pubes off in HS after lighting my fart on fire, but still managed to hook up with good looking girls that other 'cooler kids' had a crush on.    

In fact, I was almost never single in my hs/college days. I've learned that one does not need to be an extroverted smooth talker to build a good functioning social connection. Occasionally, I revert to hermit mode working on nerdy shit for weeks on end.  But I also revert to party mode for weeks on end as well. At one point in college, I became the guy known to throw crazy wild parties which IMO was very ironic since I considered myself an introvert too shy for wild parties.  I have blown too many chunks and never had a moment of clarity during that time, but have no regrets.  

Seeing escorts didn't change anything on the civvy front, other than being able to reduce drama and wining dining costs. I guess I'm able to spot the time wasters early on...

Cuz I got bronchitis, Ain't Nobody Got Time Fo Dat!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k

 

 

 

-- Modified on 3/17/2014 3:28:02 AM

My right hand needs to hold my beer.

Hate to butt in, but isn't that a little harsh? All of the talk going on in this thread relates to how the P4P game functions in our lives, how we view it, and what effect it has on the other aspects of our lives. I don't find that comparing the arrangements made with escorts to our social lives away from here a meaningless pursuit. No, none of us will walk on air tonight even if we do have somewhere to go besides to bed. But this should not cause anyone to be depressed. Maybe a tad sad with empathy, but that's not depressed.

FYI, sad is listening to the plaintive songs of Billie Holiday or the riffs of Regina Carter's violin on "Wanna Talk to you Tonight."
Depressed is like being deaf.

In the civvie world, every knows what they would like to happen but play silly games to m ale it not happen.  

Centuries of puritanical teaching, sex is sin kind of thing

Maybe you'll get your 'm ale' order bride.  

... Infantile too.

Neither you or your stupid socalled "term" are going to catch on around here. and reading posts by you are  a sure way to form and uniformed conclusion GIGO.

The other reason I doubt you are going to last even long enough here  to win this year's SPOTY is the fact you are looking for "true love" If you find it, you will be ashamed of ever having been here, and of ever having fucked a prostitute. I predict you will flame out in a few months, but unlike our bat shit crazy friend Taylor, when you leave here, my money says it's forever.

When I was in high school I was the head of the cheerleading squad - for Nirvana LOL. Goth, socially awkward, terrible grades, etc. I always dreamed of the grunge guys - and the gothic or baby-doll girls. None of which gave me the time of day. I never liked nerds until college, when I actually started using my brain. Then the nerdy type became attractive to me because they could feed my brain.  

Why I didn't finish school is another story, but I did get crushes on the challenging professors. I will finish dammit!

In a real relationship, yeah, I'd like it if a guy would pay for a damn date as it makes me feel pursued and like he's trying to impress me, but if he's got money and can't feed me intellectually and sexually, I just can't do it.  

I guess I'm glad that I wasn't in high demand either because I would have settled for marriage without knowing what really happens in a marriage. I feel hearing a lot of your stories and reading things here do help me realize just how devastating a gold digger can be. When I date IRL, I actually buy the guy expensive gifts and take him out or throw in the tab for dates, (after he's proven to me he thinks I'm worth paying for the first couple of dates.)  

At first doing this was very tough for me because I used to never let a guy even open a door for me, let alone pay for a date or buy me gifts. This has taught me how to accept gifts from men, how to set an expectation and tactfully set boundaries and rates. (I still screw this up at times lol.)

I guess I want to be that dream woman for someone - one who truly loves the guy and doesn't have a hidden agenda. I think guys know when there's a hidden agenda, but lie to themselves about it. I knew this when I was a 'sugar mama' in the past before this, (which is one of the reasons I started doing this - to make up for the financial loss…) It's painful to know the person you're spending your time with doesn't want you, they want your money and your pussy. For a guy I'm assuming it's just money and not the cock? IDK.

I am enjoying this and learning a lot through it, but do understand to an extent what you're talking about here. It's good you know what your past has saved you from lol. Many feel sorry for themselves, but really it's a blessing in disguise!

xoxo

C

-- Modified on 3/17/2014 7:03:21 AM

Some of us were "cool" cheerleaders in high school AND turned into reasonably good people. Don't be a hater, man.

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Courtney???

Did I guess? Did I guess?

Nerbs need TLC too.Nothing wrong with nerbs.

Second of all his lame little acronym has yet to be used by anyone else, while Tardwell is now memorialized forever in The Urban Dictionary and used by many on this board.
He gets nothing but abuse here, not because we're particularly mean but because he's excruciatingly dumb.
But he's too dumb to get that.

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that he's not remotely GQ material.  Then again, neither am I! LOL!

-- Modified on 3/17/2014 9:38:17 AM

They are actually having a St Paddy's day party here at the Del Rey today, not really a surprise considering virtually all the patrons are gringos.

So far I have resisted the urge to start celebrating just yet, I am still in coffee mode right now.

and I don't mean the OP, because I get what he is saying even if I don't really share his "It's my turn now" mentality, but I can see a little bit of gotcha in watching the former prom queens pandering themselves for a few pieces of silver as their looks wane in the twilight of their lives. Come on, you've got to see at least some poetic justice from the perspective of someone who was unpopular in high school, yet "made it" in his adult life.

As for hookers gloating, where have you been, I see hookers, (mainly jaded and bitter ones) doing that here all the time. They are far from the majority and almost always post from behind the safety of an alias, but there are numerous posts here by "gloating hookers" just like you describe.

Maybe I'm a pollyanna, but I just never reveled in the failure of others. Plus, you know the saying, it doesn't matter if everyone else failed the test too...

I'm sorry you weren't cool, but you obviously still care if the "stupid bitches" pay attention to you. All those women were doing was behaving exactly the way the majority of men behave when they see a beautiful woman. No one calls a guy a dumbass for seeing something he wants and going after it, in fact, you glorify doing so in the hobby. And yet a woman with the nerve to be nice to you needs to do it because she's just the second coming of Mother Theresa? What do you want them to do? Apologize for getting lucky enough to make it into the country club too? Be rude to you in an obviously singles-mingle type of situation? If they had ignored you as always, would they suddenly have "substance" compared to when they were nice? They are in this social circle, just like you, and everyone is just trying to make the best of it. Don't let a childhood filled with feelings of inadequacy cause you to be so hard on others that you can't handle a little social interaction with those who are different than you.  

I get where you're coming from, I do. No one likes to feel used. But your attitude towards these women really is dripping with sexism. And while I know this post will be flamed, I would appreciate anyone with these sentiments towards other people never coming to see me. Charlotte's PSA of the day.

Interesting perspective. How would you take a hooker gloating that she is lightening the wallets of the ugly, the fat, the socially challenged with as much glee as you are using?  

Sometimes I wonder how you guys do it. And by that I mean, deal with the fact that you have to pay a woman to be with you that otherwise would not.  

Possibly the same way that the ladies can deal with fucking someone they would not but for the money. I guess everyone sells themselves out a bit to be able to do this.

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Damn. No, that's not the reason, but I did know the name Courtney because of Courtney Love. I hope, however, that's not the affect I have on people! LOL

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Courtney Love is waayyy too messed up for me. I much prefer the "dot ova" Courtney!

indulging in my final Tica.  Off to the airport now.  Adios, Costa Rica!

Yep, I do see your point. And yes hookers do it too.  

Here's my question, by "Made it", am I to understand correctly that your reference to making it is paying women to fuck you and  not reacting to the advances of women in a social setting? Or that he has a decent job? Because his tall tale is representative of merely snubbing those advances and commenting how hookers are way better. Sure they are to some degree if all you want is what they offer.  

I think I might have received his post better if he had grown past 5th grade and omitted calling them bitches

Awesome. I'll rock for you lol

Regarding that part about defining people by how they make their living, what kind of terms do you use for those I refer to as "thief," "mugger," "burger?"  

I don't like ANY of the terms for "providers" commonly used. Inicky suggested the term "companion," and that or "paid companion" sounds the most palatable to me. But to some extent we have to shrug and take the attitude that the value judgment attached to the word lies in the ear of the beholder, as well as in the speaker's mind. There ARE derogatory terms that I really find out of bounds, mostly referring to race or ethnicity, but the profession one CHOOSES seem within bounds.

We can live up to our own sense of propriety without judging others who fail to adhere to the same code. People who do that used to be called "rugged individuals." I don't what terms people use to refer to such folk nowadays.

Recently I was with an African-American woman who wore blond hair. She kind of had all the corners of the market covered.

And, yes, I guess I did notice a redhead or two. I tend to lump blondes and redheads in the same basket. A flaw in world outlook.

It seems strange that we feel that women who agree to share sexual playtime are taking advantage because the man is agreeing to share currency. Playtime seems at least as precious as cash.

...how do you feel about people with handicaps... er, physically challenges? Sometimes men feel that women are reluctant to have playtime with them because imperfections of a physical sort are often viewed as repulsive to TABs (Temporarily Able-Bodied). Considering that such a person might be quite capable of carrying on a passably intelligent conversation, might be a very good lover in bed and a witty companion on the street, and might have managed to garner enough money to gleefully enjoy himself in a variety of ways, would you feel that if he decided he'd like to share playtime with you, and he didn't mention in his screening email that he was somewhat disfigured or deformed, would you be shocked when you opened your door with a smile on your face and wearing a brand-new baby doll negligee? Just wondering...

...and when I go to their homes they usually offer me a drink and we sit down, talk, and have a good time.

But there's a saloon just down the street, and every single time I go in there, the goddamn bartenders, doesn't matter who's behind the bar, CHARGE me! Those creeps make me PAY for what I get for FREE on a social visit to someone's home! What the hell is up with THAT?!

Man, you don't know how ugly I feel going to that bar! They make me feel like a real LOSER! It REALLY depresses me that they make me pay for what others give me for free!

Playtime  is to him as cash is to her. I don't have a problem with that at all.  

The issue I have is the term gold digger. It is not like the dude is just handing her money, she is giving him what he wants and needs.

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-- Modified on 3/17/2014 1:06:39 PM

And cash on the barrel head for hot women who are good at what they do with very little bullshit and/or drama vs. 1/2 your wealth for some so so looking socialite that only does mish and you have to listen to her bullshit and drama. Hmmm, no brainer there. Call me what you will, I'll take the hot women (by the way more than one with no jealousy) who will rock my world for cash on the barrel head, then leave

They need a payout for putting out. Sorry guys but when you guys approach it like this, the you can't blame the ladies for wanting their share. I know, makes the relationship more like a business but all I hear pretty much hear on here how most dislike the institution of marriage.  

I say pay as you go.

But I actually prefer "courtesan."  At the moment.  But I don't think the girls at the Del Rey would answer to either.

And the same applies for the lady who goes home with "can't fuck or lick his way out of a paper bag with a giant hole it" and he gets his and she is left wondering  what the fuck. Or worse she marries him and he never gets any better and she has to deal with his bullshit, filthy underwear and nose picking,

So for every man that wants this, there is a woman who should be getting paid for her trouble too. I say let every woman charge and let's all forget about marriage and the obvious bullshit it causes for both.

And for the record I get it. I won't even bother with a relationship let alone marriage. But I am not putting the blame on one side, both contribute and so both need compensation for their part.

It's quite common with second/third/fourth and so on marriages.  Heck...it makes sense on the first one as well assuming one or both of you have something to bring to the marriage.

Or just continue to spew nonsense as your rationale that all those "bitches" are checking out your financial condition.  I would be a tad surprised if most of those women can't buy and sell you...and THEY want a pre-nup!!

You really do sound like a kid in 7th grade whining about how the cute girls won't pay attention to you.  And now you are a 50 y/o man who has the same inferiority complex.  Get over yourself...it's pathetic

in this case I meant it as "they are pursuing him instead of him pursuing them" and just as he was snubbed once upon a time, payback is a bitch.

and yes it might have come across as a little harsh, but just think of the revelation a person might have had coming to the realization that at one point in his life he might have wanted the friendship and approval of these same empty, shallow, vapid people. Hey I am willing to cut him a bit of slack,

and although I can't really speak for the OP, I think yes, hookers offer him everything that he wants in his life at this present moment. Whether that is true for you or me, or even him sometime down the road is a different matter.

As for calling them bitches, have you ever been around the "Country Club" crowd? I think calling those vapid cunts bitches is an insult to female dogs. Now I don't mean all women of a "certain age" I am talking about the "Southern Country Club crowd" I have spent some time around those people and talk about ruining a great day of golf. At least in Russ' case thirty years ago he could have at least entered through the front door, I would have had to use the servants entrance. lol

I'm hearing Walter Cronkite saying "And that's the way it is".

Either/or, both/and-- it's all the same.

Somehow I get the feeling you didn't look down your nose at people when you were the cool Cheerleader either. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think so

Oh, I forgot! That was the thread where the Hound decided it was time to grow up. My mistake.

-- Modified on 3/17/2014 3:29:32 PM

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"So for every man that wants this, there is a woman who should be getting paid for her trouble too. I say let every woman charge and let's all forget about marriage and the obvious bullshit it causes for both".  

I'm all in, in fact that's the exact thing that I want and will have for the rest of my life! You have hit the nail directly on the head. You get it. You should get paid for it, no doubt in my mind. and then when the time is up either I'll politely leave or ask you to. Everybody is happy. That's perfect. Win/win. I can go on and on about the perfect scenario that you describe.  

And for the record, I'm not putting the blame on one side, both contribute and so both need compensation for their part. I couldn't agree more.

And no need to be concerned about our species going on and on because there's enough religious people around to ensure that there will always be marriages, kids and divorce and theirs is a perpetual cycle.

I would do what I normally don't do and go directly to him and plant a big wet kiss and big affectionate hug on him.  

It would be totally awesome to be a part in making someone's day that much better, and I wouldn't want to make them feel discouraged or insecure in any way, but immediately welcome.  

Most guys in the typical John situation probably feel genuinely ok in these situations, but they may not. I would hope anyone would.

I'm in a position right now where I may lose my ability to play with the ladies in a few weeks, maybe forever.  (surgery)  Right now I am concentrating on collecting all the wonderful memories I can and if it costs me a few thousand dollars over the next few weeks, fuck that.  I worked hard to earn it.  Right now I've got some money but I may not have too much more time to use it to lie with a beautiful woman and make whoppee.  The priority to me is easy.

Sometimes cash is king, sometimes it's the least important thing in the world.

I apologize for taking so long to reply to you questions, but I had to work today and your inquiries took more thought and explanations than some others.  

I've re read my OP over and over, and no where that I can see, did I complain about not being one of the cool kids. In fact my very first sentence was "I've always been a nerd, never been one of the "cool kids" and that's perfectly fine". I mean really, if everyone was cool and if everyone was good looking then no one would be cool and good looking. If I could go back I wouldn't change a thing. I rather like who I ended up being, where I am in life, where I'm going and that I have compassion for my fellow human, and contempt for those that treat others with disrespect. The years up to and including college were those that formed my future, the minor adversity of not being in the "in crowd" motivated me to further success, and honestly provided me the time to study, get good grades and then acceptance to a great University. And if I weren't the nerd that I was, I wouldn't have spent 3 wonderful years with my college GF who was the first woman to "rock my world" sexually and emotionally. Perhaps if I was in the "cool crowd" I would have been partying and not paying attention to my studies and therefore not reached the level of success that I have. So perhaps you mistook my explanation of my modest start in life as feelings of inadequacy. I assure you, that you can say that over and over again in an attempt to insult me, but I'll always feel fortunate for that modest start in life. I'll give up a few years in the front half of my life for the levels of independence, fun, enjoyment, security and comfort in this second half of my life (not that I'll ever reach 100 y/o, but you get the idea I'm sure). I was able to support my Mom in the years before she passed, and it would have broken my heart if I wasn't able to be there for her as she was for me.

Allow me to explain further. These ahem, women (someone who I respect pointed out to me in a PM that my choice of descriptive words were perhaps ill advised), so I'll call them career wives from here on out. I suspect if you had been there and seen the scene you may have had a different opinion. First, these career wives treat the help like they are their personal slaves and like they are second hand citizens. Bullshit! They are working their way through school or perhaps just supporting themselves the best that they can. They deserve the same respect as anyone else who is working to better themselves. The only people I don't have respect for is people who live off the community perpetually, but who could be working and bettering themselves. Second, all these women have done to get to this place in life is to marry well and divorce well. And, they are trying to find another victim. This event that I speak of was not a singles-mingle type of situation. It was the yearly club opening (kickoff) event. As I explained, it was assigned seating (like when you go to a wedding) and the CC ladies association was responsible for the seating arrangement and the subsequent parade of the single ladies in front of us. I was not the only single newbie that noticed this, 2 others and I discussed it after dinner. Perhaps I was just the only one who was so amused with the "presenting".

"And yet a woman with the nerve to be nice to you";  They were sickening, syrupy nice and polite, just as a car salesman is when you go buy a new car. When a car salesman asks you how your day is going and what your interests are in that sickening, syrupy way, do you believe that they really care how your day is or what your interests are? I can assure you the answer is hell no, they only care about the sale, you are a number to them, the more people they talk to in a day the more cars they will sell, it's a numbers game. The new method of buying a car is to do your research online ahead of time, have your trade in assessed for it's worth, know how much the car will cost that you want and have the funds prepared to make up the delta between what the new car costs and trade-in is worth. Sound familiar? Then go to the dealership, explain in no uncertain terms the research you've done and cut the check and walk away with the new car. Sound familiar? The beauty is two fold, the car salesman doesn't need to put on the bullshit dog and pony show and therefore the amount of time spent working with you is shortened and thus the salesman can see more customers, increasing the numbers game, a win for them. You get what you want, your new car, without having to deal with the bullshit dog and pony show, a win for you. Sound familiar? I don't mean to downgrade or minimize the provider/hobbyist experience with this analogy but I suspect you get the point. The career wife is sickeningly and syrupy nice and polite like the car salesman because she wants to be the new and only other car you'll ever drive, but only because she makes the assumption that she's your only and best option. No thanks, I'm not buying what she's selling.

 
What do you want them to do?  
Be themselves, talk to me and everyone else like a normal person with no hidden agenda, like the women I've volunteered with who don't have an idea of my financial success and be respectful to the help and quit looking down their noses at them just because they married and divorced well.

Apologize for getting lucky enough to make it into the country club too?  
I said it in my OP and I'll say it again, I'm not Country Club material. The only reason I am a member is because it's the only nice Golf Course within a 45 minute drive, and I really enjoy playing Golf, not very good but I enjoy it just the same. I'm not lucky enough to make it into a Country Club, I can afford to be and choose to spend my money on such a thing. I was not born with a Silver spoon in my mouth, I've studied and worked hard to get to this comfortable position. I'm not going to reward a career wife socialite with any of that security, especially one who treats people who don't have money like they are somehow lower class than they are. True Class cannot be purchased, it must be earned and I'm working hard everyday to earn True Class. Hopefully, I'll get there some day.

This wasn't in any way an attempt to flame you, merely an attempt at honestly answering your questions. I recognize that you would appreciate that I never come to see you, while that's unfortunate, I respect your wishes. I'll never tell you what you want to hear or not be myself so that I may have the opportunity to spend time with you. If I were to do so, I'd be acting similarly to those career wives that I've come to have such contempt for, and that would make me a hypocrite.  

Reluctantly, I'll admit that my choices of descriptive words about the career wives were insensitive and perhaps not necessary, for that I apologize (the persons respect, who PM'd me, is more important than my own petty contempt)

Just get over his obsession with being an asswipe.  And now I see he wrote part one of his dissertation on how to interpret his OP.

Bullshit on that noise...he's still blaming his childhood on his insecurities nearly 45 years later.  

Fucking pathetic....but there's still time for him to realize that the broads at the club aren't chasing him for his bucks...and frankly I doubt they are chasing him at all.  They can afford to buy the cabana boy if they like...why settle for a middle aged nerd with inferiority complex syndrome.

And given his description of "the club"...sounds like a smile and a Benjie get's anyone in.  

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The way you write in your OP is very telling, and the way you respond is very telling. You may have changed the wording, but you have not changed the sentiment.

The thing is, for as much as you think you do, you don't actually know very much about these women. You assume they are stupid, you assume they are looking for a husband, you assume that all they've done with their lives is marry and divorce well. Here they are giving you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you're a nice guy, and you've run to a hooker board to basically call them soulless harpies, looking for their next big divorce. They are just as single as you are, and had just as much choice in the seating arrangement. They were just trying to make the best of the situation. Why not?

And yes, you were in a singles situation. The moment all the single people were sat at the same table, the point was for you to meet and be friendly with each other. This isn't your volunteer work, where you're all actively working on something and in all sorts of various personal relationships. You were just plopped next to each other and told to have at it because you were "alone". Awkward even with a good mix of people, admittedly possibly more so when surrounded by southern women. Sometimes, we overdo it. So does everyone.

Why are you so angry with these women, but not the providers you see? I realize providers are easy, you don't need to explain that to me. What I wonder about is why a woman who is looking for a legitimate partner is more upsetting than someone who wants very little to do with you outside of your cut and dry relationship. Even the most hardened gold digger would like her next husband to be her last, you know? Maybe I just grew up in a small southern town with a lot of this kind of socializing. I really do recognize that there can be cattiness and bad intentions, but they usually aren't all that bad if you give them a chance.

And please, I really was not trying to insult you. You are just luckier than you realize and less aware than you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6wbugWrfLU

Loved your "vapid cunt" reference and I shall use it. No, never been around that and if I had, most likely would have felt as you do. Cheers my man!