First, I figure the odds are that the woman already is in a civie relationship that she is quite happy with. I could be wrong, but each woman I've known would have no trouble in getting a good catch, which leads to point number two. Though I'm quite happy with my life and myself, each woman that I've known could do much better than me regarding looks, money and personality. So I just keep my big mouth shut and enjoy my time with her.
Especially if you've just met her. She is a provider, and you are a client. If you push that envelope, you'll be someone else's client. Repeat with her, if you like, but leave it at that, at least for now.
but be prepared for the consequences if she does not share your interest and you come across as overly agressive in your request.
My advice if you really like this lady is to drop some hints to see if she is receptive, and if, and only if she warms to the idea be clear that you are just looking to spend some time on a purely "sex optional" basis. If she thinks you are just looking for a freebie, you'll just look like another cheapskate trying get over.
I have dated many a provider and I have always made it very clear that if any sex was going to happen on the "first date" that she would be the one initiating it. Keep in mind that it's sort of like asking out the extremely hot bartender, I am sure she gets hit on all the time. You certainly don't want to become an ex-client by pushing the wrong button.
BTW, I hope you are single,if you are not blurring the lines is even worse, for both of you.
she is incredible, when I order from her, she actaully puts her hand on my arm and laughs a little. She teases me to get me to laugh, and seems to know enough about me to ask questions that indicate she remembers our conversations.
She is a goddess, has been invited and gone to the Playboy mansion, has been offered photo spreads... and is just great to hang with...
just do not have the nerve to really ask her out... 'fraid of rejection - and don't tell me to jokingly bring up the topic... tried that, got nowhere... as i have noticed many others try that route... so I think she thinks we are all kidding.... any hits would be appreciated.... Oh, and the kicker - she works in a strip club - but is the hottest gal in the room, bar none.
be different than as you stated "all the rest of the guys" do. For real, your a grown-up I assume and not a college kid, so come right and say "look everyone here beats around the bush trying to ask you out, I'd like to have dinner with you so what time should I pick you. I've got the perfect place and I'll make all the arrangements". If that fails then who cares, she wouldn't go out with you any way and move on finding someone else to ask out. She'll respect you for being upfront and a "mature man" about silly things like gettin' the nerve to ask someone out?
Chances are, if she is a good bartender, she is just doing her job and flirting/taking an interest in her customers to keep them coming back. Her salary is tip based and the nicer she is, the better the tips. If you have jokingly asked her out and she blew you off, chances are she doesnt want to go out with you, but doesnt want to hurt your feelings.
You could always casually mention an event you were going to and ask if she would be your "date" for the evening. That way it's no pressure on her to say yes or no. You know the saying "nothing ventured, nothing gained."
(btw- I am a part time bartender, so I have an idea of what you are talking about)
has to balance her desire to "keep it businness" and keep the fantasy going for her customers. An overly harsh brush off will hurt both of them in the pocket book, so guys don't put them in that awkward position to be forced to burst your bubble.
There is nothing wrong with taking a chance and asking out the "hot bartender", but remember there is always the chance that you will ruin the fantasy when you find out that she is either already involved, not interested, or even worse not willing to see you professionally any more becuase of your blurring of the lines.
Well I had that fear of rejection problem most of my life which limited my dating options. I definitely never was a ladies man but there was usually a few that made it obvious they liked me and after I was sure I would get a yes I would ask them out. Anyway I am only addressing the fear of asking part of your question. I would suggest challenging your fear by writing down your fear on a sheet of paper and then writing down counter aruguments. Things such as:
I will survivive if she says no. Its not the end of the world. Even if she says no it may not have anything to do with me personally. I will not let her saying no affect my self esteem. I can still enjoy her company at the bar if she says no. She may say yes.
You will come up with better challenges because they will come from you.
A therapist named Albert Ellis used make a home work assignment for guys with this fear telling them to go ask a hundred women out. If only one said yes then the guys goal was met, he got a date. The 99 rejections were not important. Now in reality that is a hard attitude to adopt but its a pretty good way to look at it.
I don't think you should ask her out until you are fully prepared for a yes or no and can accept it without getting down on yourself.
I love to take gals on dates: Dining, plays, movies, museums, travel - you name it, it sure brightens up my life.
But what you are refering to perhaps is changing from a pay to play to a civie type arrangement.
That is not proper unless you get very strong signals from her that it's OK, and then you have to be very upfront and avoid any confusion lest some nasty circumstances ensue.
Finally, if you are contemplating civie dating because you will save some money, let me disabuse you from that notion. There is no greater bargain in the world for NST sex than this hobby. I know because I still do both in a way.
The only good reason to want to start a civie relationship is because you two really like each other enough and your personal situations are such that a nice civie relationship will work and benefit both.
and I am combining posts... you will have to find another gal to play with - either for pay or not.
You will also have to let her set the parameters for the relationship - and you will have to accept her business... as if it were none of yours. before you go here, can you do that?
I cannot tell you how many providers have told me that they cut guys off who get too close too fast.... it is a hazzard in the biz... a guy gets connected to the gal... and she feels the walls closing in....
to paraphrase: "I met her today, and I've never felt this way before." (yeah, I remember the first time I got laid, too
Ask her out. What are the possibilities? 1) she feels the same way. it's kismet. you fall in love and a) ride off into the sunset together b) you become her pimp.
2) she likes you well enough, but she is a pro and does not want to see you "off the clock".
3) she thinks you are a sap for falling for a pro after one night in the sack, and takes you for everything you are worth.
4) she thinks you are creepy for falling for a pro after one night in the sack, and changes her phone number and e-mail address.
5) she agrees to go on a date with you. you have a great time and end up in bed. you have the best sex you've ever had, for hours on end. you fall asleep in each others arms, sweaty and exhausted. In the morning she presents you with a bill equal to a month's salary.
there may be a few other possibilities I haven't thought of...
You have a great time, have wild unimmaginable sex... and you realize that it was just lust...
She on the other hand feels that she has found her soulmate... The universe, as we know it, will cease to exist without your permanant unification.... She wants your seed to implant her and she will bear your endless fruit.... She abandons all others and the biz, takes out her savings and stalks... forever making public statements about her undying devotion to you... and well, it does not end well....
In a session, she's on a job and it's probably hard to know if she has a real feelings for you. I think you'd want to wait till you see her a few more times. If you really want to, you could drop some hints that you want to see her outside the session, but be ready to get rejected.
be who she really is, so you are becoming infatuated with someone who may not even exist beyond the session. Before you get defensive, consider this. Conceding that everyone presents their best side when meeting someone new, civie or not, and you can't really get to know someone until you know them, Providers are providing fantasy, so that "best" side is magnified tenfold. Good providers are even better at the fantasy. There are some threads about this if you search, but just about every provider who responded on those threads said about the same thing - the real them is not what you get, just a part of the real them.
So, she may very well be what you think she is, and she may even be much better, but you should step back, count to ten days, and reconsider making a move based on one session with a provider who made that great connection with you beyond the sex. If you still want to go for it, see her professionally six or seven times before you even hint that you want to go further. If you don't, chances are you will not only scare her away, but give her undue grief about having to deal with a boundary crosser. These ladies have to worry about so many things, and the love sick puppy dog is one of them. I'm not calling you that, but you have to consider that, since she can't read your mind, she has no way of knowing that you are not when you make the move, and any sane provider probably wouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt because she can't afford to be wrong.
IMHO, you have a better chance of hitting the lottery than succeeding with this kind of thing. For all of the success stories you will hear, there are so many more failures. But, then again, there are lottery winners out there.
I agree that the provider should be the one to initiate an off the clock date. If you ask her for a "real date" as you put it, it puts her in an awkward position of trying to respond to that. I would say don't ask her for a real date because you may never get to see her for a hobby date again.
I wouldn't ask, but that's just my view. Some people do and they work out just fine. Most don't. So I would like to gently tell you that while I'm sure she values your time together, I wouldn't expect it to turn into something more.
First, I figure the odds are that the woman already is in a civie relationship that she is quite happy with. I could be wrong, but each woman I've known would have no trouble in getting a good catch, which leads to point number two. Though I'm quite happy with my life and myself, each woman that I've known could do much better than me regarding looks, money and personality. So I just keep my big mouth shut and enjoy my time with her.
And it was wonderful for six weeks then the worst pain I've felt in years.
In a session, particularly first session, you have paid for and received an NSA experience of the best side of her she has to offer and no indication of what her full reality is, what s.o. she may be involved with, what baggage she carries, etc.
My situation was first session was a four hour that turned in to an overnight and it was so apparent that it was mutual that I made the step you are contemplating- but I did that after multiple emails initiated by her indicating her feelings too.
We had a whirlwind relationship- the most wonderful thing I've ever experienced until her s.o. that I did not know about surfaced and threatened to out me. Things went downhill fast and she is back with her s.o. and ..... crap.
My advice would be to keep seeing her on a p4p basis and see what develops, and to see others too to help keep your head on straight.
If it is meant to be--- or not meant to be.... it will be better and more reality based discovered over time than after first meeting!
One other thought- the "GFE" went to "GF" pretty fast- didn't matter since I was 'in love'. In fact that has been a reality even with provider's I didn't cross the line with but got to be friends with! Food for thought..........
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