I have a pretty good relationship with my wife.  Nice lifestyle, common interests, common goals, etc.

However, since we married a few years ago, she has put on some weight and at first the intimacy deteriorated into no sex (my choice) but she still gave me head once or twice a week.  However, I found this very frustrating because, ultimately, I want just want to thrust my cock in a hole with reckless abandon and, truthfully, I wasn't attracted to her enough to climax from sex anymore.  So, for the last seven or eight months, I have given up all sexual relations with her and now it is pretty much only with providers.  We still hold hands in public, hang out all the time, kiss (more pecks than DFK, for sure), but the intimacy is 100% gone for now.

Am I asking for big problems if I don't correct this situation right away or is that just the way some marriages go (without necessarily ending in messy divorces)?

Trust me, we used to have great sex up until a couple years ago and then it all went to shit when she gained weight (a size 6 to a size 14 and holding).  I am trying to exercise with her but if I don't push the issue then she pretty much doesn't do anything but go to an expensive weight loss clinic every now and then or join this fad gym or that fad gym only to go a couple times and then stop.  Talk about frustration!  We are still young and while she could be wearing the best clothes, instead she is letting her prime pass her by.  Every time I see a 40 year old+ woman that looks better than her it takes everything in my power not to lose my cool (and I do lose my cool quite frequently).

How many hobbyists here are still married, have no intimacy with their spouse, and still expect to be married in a few years?

I don't know what else to do.  I've promised her she could retire by 35 (we have no kids and don't want any) if she would just take care of herself and make herself back into the arm candy that she temporarily was for me before we married.  I've bought her a nice car, take her on nice vacations, etc., but nothing seems to motivate her.  If this is a lost cause, I think I would be better off reconsidering whether or not I want to spend too much longer in this marriage.

I understand completely. My wife is not interested in taking care of her physical being though she still looks younger than her age. Our sex life went down hill years ago and thus only have sex very, very infrequently. We're in our 50s and don't intend to divorce over this one issue even though it is important to me but not to her. And I don't ever get BJs. So, started hobbying 9 months ago. This past week wife wanted sex night before I was to see escort who I see regularly. Had to say NO...didn't want to spend myself on bad sex when ATF gives all I ask for and more. I don't think I'm stupid. My wife can do without as she has now for years and I can't give up the great sex I discovered is out there. I tried to hire a personal trainer for her, suggested a therapist to help her get over inability to please me, etc. It has not worked...she has no interest in her sexuality any longer and my sexual needs.

My wife and I married at eighteen.  She was drop-dead gorgeous.  I like to think I wasn't malformed, either.  Things were generally good (sex was, well...it was okay) until my son was born after about five years of marriage.  

Shortly after my son's arrival, my wife began to gain weight.  I'll admit, I no longer fit into my prom tux, either, but I didn't go as far as she.  What was worse, my wife seemed to stop caring how she looked.  She no longer fussed over her hair, stopped wearing make up, and began wearing really unattractive clothes.  

As one might expect, my adavnces toward my wife became fewer, but I still wanted the closeness and release of physical intimacy.  Yet, even my occasional overtures were rebuffed, to the point where I just gave up.

After about fifteen years, I had a messy affair with my secretary.  My wife was fully aware of the situation.  Without going into the details of the matter (which appear in an earlier post), I ended my affair after about a year and a half.  

My wife and I began to work together to rebuild our marriage. We both lost weight, got involved in mutually interesting activities, and became the very best of friends.  I learned that my wife needed affection, even when I wasn't interested in sex.  So, I began to do little things around the house; tell her how pretty she was; touch her or kiss her in a non-sexual way.

Gradually, sex returned to the picture, and it was, well...she was better than even the best provider I know.  I didn't know who this woman was, but I was sure glad I was married to her.

During the rebuilding process, my wife and I learned a number of things about ourselves.  Regarding my wife's originally cool attitude toward sex, and her huge weight gain, much of these problems stemmed from abuse at the hands of her father.  The abuse was both mental and physical, making it very difficult for her to manage physical and emotional intimacy.  In effect, my wife was building a wall to protect herself from having to have sex with me.

After realizing this, we began behaving in ways designed to make the event more relaxing and comforatble for my wife.  As I said, eventually, the problems not only disappeared, but completely reveresed themselves.

There are few things as rewarding or fulfilling as a good marriage and a devoted life partner.  Believe me, I know.  Do everything you can to communicate with yor wife about how you feel, and really LISTEN to her when she tells you how SHE feels.  Remember, it will likely be in code.  Work with her to help you decipher what she's saying.  You may need outside help.  And never, NEVER, tell her about your hobby.  Take it to your grave.  

If you love this woman, it's worth the effort.  Truly.  

Just make sure she gets an annual cancer screening.

I am willing to bet that a lot of my co workers do as much marraige counseling as um... er... mattress work.

The problem with that is that we are doing so with only one of the parties involved...

Hobbying is a good venting experience... but if you are using it as a sexual outlet to the exclusion of any in you marraige... then, yes sadly, you are being stupid.  Or at least unfair.  To both you and your wife.

If you love her.... and wish to go on being married.... then push the excercise issue.  And TELL her WHY there is a problem.  Be aware though that you to need to make some accomodations.  And that may include forgoing hobbying.

If she isn't willing to work on it... then you re consider your options.  If she says she likes the way things are now... status quo and you can live with that.  Well there you are.  

My .02 cents a provider.  Hope it helps
Rebecca

Lets face it, we men need stroking.  Hobbying provides esteem building.  My wife lost both breasts to cancer and is on Timoxifin, a steroidal cancer drug that has taken her from 130# to 210#.  I know she feels bad about her appearance and I try to compliment her constantly, but, overweight people won't accept compliments because they think they don't deserve them.  My providers, especially my ATF, make me feel like I can please any woman.  I bring that feeling home to my wife, whom I make love to more passionatly than ever.  This makes my wife feel more loved than any verbal compliments ever could.  And it all starts with a provider making ME feel good about myself.

My opinion on this is..........
If you really love your wife her weight will not be the deciding factor on whether on not you remain with her.

I believe what you need to do is let her know how much you love her and how much you still desire her instead of making her feel worse than I am sure she already does.  By not sleeping with her I am sure you are telling her over and over (with your actions) That you do not love her and you are not attracted to her.  

Maybe some positive feedback from you is what she needs.  Tell her you love her and that you are still attracted to her, that will give her the incentive to want to please you.  Why would she want to please the man who only loved her when she was a trophy?   I remember when I went through this situation, I used to think "if I am not good enough for him fat, then why bother because he obviously never loved me anyway"

Just my opinion,

Good Luck

Ashley

-- Modified on 5/5/2003 12:18:59 PM

Isn't this to some degree lying to her though?  And is that fair?

I realize that in a perfect world, looks/weight wouldn't matter.

But if he just ISN'T attracted to her, is it fair to ask him to tell her he is?  And then if she does initiate sex and he is unable to perform... I don't know seems almost as bad as the "trophy" thing.

One of the things that I understand after this job is that some gents really CAN'T see past "type".  It is what allows ALL of us to work succsessfully in this industry.

Anyway just a question.  I too am a big girl and completely understand the confidence issues that can go with it.  For my part I would rather know he cared enough to be honest with me than lie to me.  Even if it is meant for my own sake.


Rebecca

My point is that, when you love someone you take the good with the bad, you do not bail because she is not longer a hard body.  To me that does not say love.

I was not suggesting he lie to her, just give her positive encouragement instead of negative.

And as I said if he cannot get over her looks, then let her go so she can find some who will love her for who she is, not how she looks.

Being a full figured woman, I would rather know he loved me for the person I am inside, not because I am "arm candy"

As a Therapist, as well as a Provider, I can tell you, this is a very common thing in marriages. We all get our "Warm Fuzzies" one way or the other. That's what I call addictions. Over eating is just one way that some women fill the void, others may shop, or drink to "self medicate" for a lack of Intimacy. If your wife was small once, she can be again, but she has to want to do it for herself, not you.!! As an Intimacy Specialist, I teach workshops and council with couples who seek the lost intimacy in their lives. I saw a wonderful movie the other night called "BLISS" made in 1997 by Sony(See it..!!!). WOW, it was something every married man should see. Each of us carries baggage thoughout life, that forms who we are. I believe, if a couple truly wants to stay together, they must work together to make it happen. That's why I don't work with just one partner, since you can't "Repair one side of a fence". I do believe however, there are people who are just non-sensual, they can play act at sensuality, to achieve a goal(Marriage, pro-creation, manipulation)but it's not the core of their being, as it it with the truly sensual. Non-sensuals, can turn it on and off, like a light switch. The true sensuals, need intimacy and touch, like they need oxygen.  Without it they begin to die from within. Let me ask you...Have you ever gone to a Provider WITH your wife...? What about a Swing club...? This isn't for everyone, but since you seem to feel your wife still has the interest, it's just you that's having the problem with not wanting to have sex with her, sometimes, going to an environment of variety, can help. First, it allows you to watch other couples of all shapes and sizes who are comfortable with their sexuality, secondly, your wife will find men who enjoy her body type, as well as smaller women for your enjoyment. Thirdly, she may feel so good about herself, that she will want to look nicer and you will see her with new eyes, as other men are turned on by your wife....Remember, I said this isn't for everyone, but it is certainly an option, that would allow your wife some pleasure, as well as yourself and may allow you to bond again as a loving couple, while enjoying a wonderful,exciting journey together. For those who's partner is non-sensual and yet they've decided to remain in the marriage, I do feel seeing Providers is a great alternative, if you can do it without the anger or guilt. With anger, you get sloppy, leaving clues, trying to hurt your partner...Not good..!!! Guilt helps no one...If you can see a Provider, keep the sessions on a (Neccesity) business level, like going to the gym, only better *wink*, you'll be a much happier guy, better to live with and as a result, you won't be so focused on changing your wife...Good luck Sweetie, cuz it sounds like you really do care about this gal....Hugs, Robyn

Size 14 is TOO LARGE!

Sir, I hope someone that is man enough to appreciate your lady discovers her before you figure it out.  Size 14 is NOT too large for wonderful sex and I bet from your description she is a fire ball in bed.

Better yet, send me her email address and I'll take care of things for you in the bedroom department.  And to top it off, I'll get it longer, better, more passionate, and for free.

If your solution is to act like nothing is bothering him and to treat her the same, even though he doesn't feel the same about her as before, then that will cause an even bigger problem for the relationship in the long run.  Although some of you may disagree with the way he is feeling, those feelings are his, and he has to do something to not feel that way anymore.  I personally think he should confront her with the truth of why he hasn't touched her in over a year, and see how much she wants to make their relationship work.  Losing weight takes lots of dedication, but it can be done.  I've done it, and so have many women friends of mine who gained weight after having a child.  As for continuing to have sexual relations with her, men can't fake arousal.  Our anatomy just doesn't allow for it.  Many of us probably wish we could fake it for situations like this.  And, since he doesn't seem to be into the BBW look, your solution is probably not very helpful.

I agree with you that one shouldn't bail just because his/her spouse is no longer a hard body.  Yet, being married also means that you should make a real effort to keep your partner happy.  It appears that his wife just wants him to accept her the way she is, which shows little or no effort on her part.  As for giving her positive encouragement, positive reinforcement works when you reward actions favorable to the desired outcome. It does not appear that she has done anything, with respect to the issue that is troubling him, to rectify the situation, and therefore does not deserve any positive reinforcement.  Now, if he confronts her, and she starts going to the gym thereafter, then positive encouragement is the way to go.

You know, now that I read the original post again, I'm begining to feel a little like LOARTHAN.  When my wife died she was a size 14, and still one of the most beautiful, talented, intelligent, funny, and loving women I've ever known.  And she was hot right up until she got sick.  

You should be ashamed.  

Stop messing around, and address the problem.  If you stopped feeling anything for YOUR WIFE just because she put on a few pounds (and LOARTHAN's right; size 14 is NOT too big), you should ask yourself if you ever REALLY loved her.  Your, "arm candy," comment speaks volumes.

One day, you'll be old, ugly, and probably impotent.  At that point, all you'll have left is the love of a good woman.

But I would say you are a true Gentleman!

Loathran, I am counting down the days to finally meet you!!!


Mel ;

-- Modified on 5/5/2003 4:20:53 PM

It's easy to call a guy superficial, but if a relationship blossomed and the attraction was established while the two people in the relationship looked a certain way, I think that for one of the two to completely let themselves go is a slap in the face to the other person.

What if I were to decide I didn't want a high-pressure (and high paying) job anymore, took a severe paycut and did something I really enjoyed at 1/3 the income???  I don't suppose too many spouses would appreciate that.  Well, for a spouse to gain weight and let herself go, in my mind, is not any different.

It has nothing to do with not loving the other person.  This is not a case where the woman has grown old and I want to replace her with another woman 15 years her junior.  My wife is beautiful at a certain weight and not so beautiful 60 pounds later.  She could be cruising around in her luxury sedan, wearing the best clothes, etc. if she would just eat right and exercise.  I don't see why I should be accepting of a once beautiful woman that due to pure laziness and overeating has allowed herself to become the average size 14 American woman.
Just because other woman are that size doesn't mean that I want my spouse to be that size.

I am not being an average man and earning $40,000 per year or whatever the median income is for an American male in his early 30's.  Instead, I am going above and beyond and I have not gained any weight since our wedding day and that is only because I make the time and effort to exercise instead of sleeping in and extra couple hours or instead of getting home a couple hours earlier.  Call me ignorant but I think most people are fat because they are too lazy to eat right and exercise.

Trust me, it was only worse when I attempted sex with her after her weight gain but in the end could not bust a nut and I KNOW this has everything to do with her weight gain, because that is exactly how it was in the beginning of our relationship.  

When I met her she was a size 10, a little too big for me and it is amazing that our relationship survived because I didn't bust a nut with her until she lost about 15 pounds and it only got better with the more weight she lost and the tighter her body became from working out.  She did not lose the weight by binging and purging but instead by HARD WORK.  She did go from a 12 to a 10 prior to our wedding only to shoot all the way up to a 14.

For all the guys that want to fuck my size 14 wife...go find your own BBW, there are PLENTY of them out there.  Just because she is a BBW doesn't mean that she still doesn't have standards and will fuck all you guys that will fuck anything that moves.  Size 14 IS too big, unless a woman is like 6' tall!  An average woman of 5'4" should be no more than a size 8 and to look good should be a size 4-6.  Don't talk to me about what size your wife was when she died...my wife just turned 30 and should be in her prime not on her death bed.  If my wife takes care of herself, there is no reason why we cannot be intimate for 30 more years.  However, if she doesn't, I don't see the point in staying married when there are so many women in their mid to upper 20's looking for a guy my age that do take care of themselves and are into physical fitness.  If I do ever have to do this thing over again, I will definitely pick a woman that is into yoga, pilates or running, even if it means she doesn't know how to cook and I may even have to hire an interior decorator in case she isn't very good at that either.  Would still be a lot cheaper than hobbying once a week.

I really have no desire to see a provider or to swing with my wife (nor does she).  I just believe that a marriage should be exclusive, other than my hobbying of course.  And, honestly, if she ever did something on the side and was as discreet as I am, I wouldn't mind.  How could I mind if I didn't know about it?

I am very tight-lipped with my hobbying and would never divulge it to my wife.  I agree with you that men that confess to such activities are ultimately just trying to hurt their partners but play it off as they cannot live with the guilt.  I do not feel any guilt from my hobbying but I also do not feel any guilt by not having a 3 carat diamond ring on my wife's finger, which I could probably put there with every continued year of hobbying, amongst other goodies (last time I checked, she only had 10 fingers).

While my hobbying may not end entirely, I am sure I would scale back to probably once a month if I had a happy sex life at home.  We have been together since she was 21 and I was 22.  It's not like I had money to hobby at 22 but 10 years later I do.  For the first five years we were exclusive and enjoyed our sex lives very much but now its like she stopped caring.  While she still needs the constant companionship and hugs and kisses, she doesn't seem to miss the sex all that much, but I really think it is as a result of my disapproval of her weight gain, knowing that I have no desire to be sexual with her anymore.

The stupid thing is that she gets mad at me when she sees that I have been looking at porn on the computer.  While it would be nice to hobby five times a week, I still must masturbate more often than I hobby, at least until I double my already ample salary.  Its like I am off limits to touch my dick, off limits to have sex with other women and all the while she is doing nothing to improve herself.

If it doesn't change, I don't see any other outcome than an unfortunate divorce that will split apart best friends and college sweethearts.  While I love her deeply, I am not willing to be celibate for the rest of my life or to fake liking BBW's.
I am an active person and I like to do physical activities that she cannot participate in due to her weight.  Anybody that says size 14 for a woman is not too big is ignorant.  A size 14 woman sure doesn't hike up a mountain very well, run a 10K very well, play tennis very well or HAVE SEX VERY WELL WITHOUT CRUSHING ME HALF TO DEATH!!!  (And I am not a small guy, either)

I have suggested counseling and have been rejected each time.  It is coming to the point where if she does not begin losing weight or at least agree to marriage counseling that the relationship will not survive any longer.  She can point to my faults as often as she likes (I spend too much money, I don't help around the house (she has a housekeeper...helllloooo!!!), I don't pay the bills (she leaves for work two hours later than I do and arrives home two hours earlier and I think this is ample time to write a couple checks), etc., but in the end most of our problems are a direct result of her weight gain.

You are saying you will end your marriage if she does not lose weight, you have never once mentioned you loved her.   I think you are looking for a way out.  I have to say, I honestly hope you do let her go so she can find someone who knows how to love with their heart, not their hands and eyes.    I feel sorry for you if you will leave a woman who loves you to find yourself a young hardbody. What happens when you start to age and midlife creeps up on you?  Should the new wife stay with you or find herself a younger, harder, man?

Reoesn't a woman have a responsibility to keep herself looking good???.....

I do think a woman should keep herself looking good for her husband, I just really think if you love someone you will support her.  There is a reason she is letting herself go, maybe she is depressed because her husband does not touch her anymore.

I have said numerous times that I love her and that she is my best friend.  If this was such an easy thing to do, then I would've done it already and gone out and gotten a 22 or 23 year old woman if it was an AGE thing.

I fell in love with my wife for her personality but I married her when I thought that she would make a good partner.  Being in a sexless marriage is NOT being with a good partner.

If you have chosen to stop taking care of yourself, that is your prerogative.  If my wife has chosen to do so, that is also her prerogative, but I don't have to be there to support it.

I also sweetness, I also! (evil grin)

... that this woman has not given you any children or had to put up with you for any period of time.  You sound self-absorbed and self-centered.  I hope you take these comments personally, because that is the way I intend them to come across.

Most folks change over time.  Yes, there are some truly beautiful women that seem to be ageless.  The rest of us suffer from time, gravity, and age.

My parents are in their 80's and are as playful today as they were before my birth (48 years ago).  Neither of them is the same as they were then, but they both think the other is a thing of beauty and a joy to (be)hold.

Treat that woman nicely, she is the only one who is going to love you when you get old and gray.

The providers are wonderful, but remember that it is business for them.  Your wife will be there for you when you are shitting in your diaper in your old age (for her sake, I hope not).



-- Modified on 5/5/2003 7:40:35 PM

-- Modified on 5/5/2003 7:41:13 PM

.

You never once mentioned you love your wife until you responded to Robin.  All you ever mentioned was that she was "eye candy"  and she is not anymore and you are not interested in her. I am curious, don't you think she realizes you do not want to touch her?  Did you ever stop to think that maybe you are the reason she does not try to lose the weight?  People (men and women) want to be loved for who they are, not becasue they look good sitting in their luxury sedan dressed to kill!

I can commend you for giving her a good life, however, I find it really hard to believe that you tell her you love her.  

do you usually say something like......"you are fat, you don't turn me on, I love you, Goodnight?   or do you just leave the I love you out of it?  

I am not trying to come down on you, I just really think you are not loving her because she is fatter than when you married her.  

I just think that is really wrong.  

I am not saying anything in support of Willie Wonka but I can't help but wonder whether there is some hypocrisy in the replies to his post.

Based upon what a number of non-provider female friends have told me I think that some women may tolerate a man that develops a paunch after they are married, but many of these same ladies would not have walked down the aisle with a man who already had a paunch.

The results of one of the TER surveys indicated that approximately 50% of the hobbyists are married.  The 50% does not include those hobbyists who have SO's but are not married.

Out of this group who are married or have a SO I wonder how many get sex once a year on their birthday.  Are they only getting sex once a year because they have developed a beer belly and their wives are no longer physically attracted to them?

I do not pretend to have the definitive answer to the above question but I am interested in what other people honestly think.

With that type of attitude, and if I were your wife, I would tell you to take your glad rags and be gone.

perhaps a 4-6 if she is small boned and slender. BUT...you said she was a size 12 prior to marriage and got down to a size 10 for your wedding. That's not a big difference from what she is now.

And it seems you should have known if she was active or not before you married her. Did she spend hours at the gym, hiking, running, doing yoga at that time? It doesn't sound like she did. Why are you surprised she isn't now?

I'm sorry but you do sound very shallow. I agree, she is heavy for her size if she is average height and since she has never given birth she doesn't even have that excuse...BUT...you do sound very shallow and cold and I'm sure if we can pick up on that through the computer screen too. There are many reasons people gain weight - there is laziness, yes, but also depression, inertia, loneliness, hormone changes, thyroid problems, a change in medications, a change in lifestyle, normal process of aging, etc. I think you should be more supportive.

MM

I have to chime in now...I think everyone should take a deep breath and realize that Willie may be sounding like a Cad because he is releasing his frustrations here in this forum and not on his wife.  

Now...not that I completely agree with him and his thought process, I can understand where he is coming from.  (Please realize he is in his early 30s and the pearls of the world are focusing in his eyes).  

There is nothing wrong with having expectations from your spouse.  I can also say that hearing some of the women coming down so hard on the guy is a little funny.  Funny because most of you position yourself to go after the mature established hobbyist...in other words the men with money to spare.  You are not looking to provide to the man with a bus pass...unless of course he has the means to also afford to ride your rates...which is very unlikely.  Women marry men who are able to provide for them.  If a woman married a man who was a VERY ample provider financially and everything went well for a few years, then that man just kinda faded off with his work ethic and just wasn't providing like he was.  There was nothing wrong with him physically, he just lost the desire.  Would you be okay with continuing to carry on as you were previously (screwing like rabbits, caring for the children, cooking, cleaning or whatever) without the perks of financially stability???  I could be wrong, but I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD!

Willie needs to be much more supportive and understand that she tried to become what he wanted prior to getting married and that is a tough thing to keep up.  His wife just wanted him to love her unconditionally. However, she erred in creating a person that was not her true self.  

You have to find a way to talk to her without "loosing it" and keep it that way.  The higher your emotions go the further she will go into her cave.  Now, I don't advocate being a wimp about things.  I think you should let her know in direct terms that you have wants and desires that you want her to fufill, but if that is not possible you will fill them somehow.  If you are a go getter like it seems then she should be able to understand.  

This will be a LONG work in process and you have to temper your anger as much as possible.  You are the key here.  You have to support her with love and not just with actions.  We men think that "since I am doing things for you then you should know that I LOVE YOU!".  Well, women are not wired like that.  Love isn't a physical or sexual act to them.  It is a way of being.  You have to BE IN LOVE with your wife and not just love her with gifts, deeds and words.

GOOD LUCK!

-- Modified on 5/6/2003 2:15:15 PM

-- Modified on 5/6/2003 2:18:01 PM

When you marry it is for love, when a man naturally starts to lose his hair should we throw them out of bed?  No, him having less hair or more belly in my opionion does not make a difference in how I feel abut him.   His wife is heavy, but certainly not obese, Love is supposed to be blind!
Ashley

Stop buying into this "California anemic woman" type and start being more mature and looking at "all" women as a potential great sex partner and life partner. I am a size 14 on a good day and 16 on a bad. I'm a provider who is extremely attractive and smart. Do I have a plethora of dates? Hell yes. I'm witty and a great date. What's wrong with dating a woman who has curves? I think most white men are more concerned with what their "friends" think about who they're with than what they really want. I can tell you with all certainty, I am mixed race and 99% of my clientele are white. Why? Because they want a "trophy" in public and a "real woman" in private. Real meaning that not everyone has to look "anemic" to be acceptable as far as society is concerned. Most men need to grow up. This isn't an original story. White women typically get a "wake up call" when they go from a size 4 to a 14. They decide at that point, "am I going to continue to try to be this trophy" or am I going to be me and be accepted for what I look like now?" I'm telling you, the prescription rate for prozac and lithium is at an all time high because these women are victims of what sociey dictates and their husbands are the catalysts. I feel very good about me. If gentlemen don't call me because they think that I'm "fat" because I'm not a size 4 or 6, fuck 'em. I know that I'm attractive and have a great deal to offer and am very good in the bedroom. A person doesn't have to be a size 4 for that.

As a provider I do not date.  When I had my last boyfriend who by the way was a rich, young, successful man, my motto was "you stay rich I will stay cute".  

In my opinion, you should tell your wife how you feel.  If you do not feel comfortable confronting her about such a sensitive issue face to face, write her a letter or send her an email.  Then you can decide where to go from there.  If she wants to work out and save your marriage great, or maybe she will want to take a different route, would you be able to handle that?  You love her so be honest with her she is your friend so talk to her like one.  

You guys do not have kids, from what you say she works and is capable of taking care of herself and you are both young.  So it would not be the end of the world if you did divorce.  I am not trying to diminish the pain you would feel,  but at least you both would be able to make a new start.  

No matter what you decide, good luck.  I am sure many people feel the way you do maybe they have different issues but the feelings are the same you are courageous to actually say it in a public forum.

Daisey

"if she does not begin losing weight or at least agree to marriage counseling that the relationship will not survive any longer"

Really, this should be agree to marriage counseling FIRST... the losing weight second. Weight issues are usually the result of other things going on... and while you may think she hasn't noticed that you don't touch her anymore, somehow I very highly doubt that. Of course it hurts her feelings that you're looking at porn. She feels rejected in favor of barbie doll porn models. And, hey... she IS being rejected in favor of barbie doll porn models.

Apparently instead of "Till Death Do Us Part," your vows should've included "Till 20lbs or more do us part." That is your prerogative and you are entitled to it! But please don't feed me any pap about how you truly love and/or feel committed to this woman. Frankly I think she'd be better off without you, and then she probably COULD address her weight issues.

This thread has frankly amazed me... the fact that you say even if your sex life was great, you'd still sneak around behind her back (But oh, you do love her) frankly amazes me... but oh no, god forbid you go to a swingers club! LOL! Marriage should be EXCLUSIVE??? What a joke!

Sincerely,
Nicole

And come to think of it, even DOGS are more complicated than this. Human beings just don't work this way... Really now, if they did wouldn't all women have bodies like Pamela Anderson? Shucks, let's take Pavlov and turn society into a bunch of Stepford Sluts, why don't we!

Marriages are give and take. Judging from this guys attitude do you really think the fault is all on his wife's side??? I mean???? There is so much more to this than we are hearing here that it's unfair for any of us to judge this poor woman who is not here to defend herself. Yes, she should make an effort, but you can save your positive reinforcement doggie treats, truly. Her effort and changes will have to come from within.

However, judging Willie Wonka is easy, for me... he has displayed his character for all to see.

Sincerely,
Nicole

I love your quote..."you stay rich and I'll stay cute."

Funny you should mention that.  I have told my wife that if she got in good enough shape, became a spinning instructor (or some other form of aerobics instructor), that I wouldn't care if she quit working as young as 35.  All I want is for her to look the part.

Whenever in a relationship, both sides have one end of the deal to hold up or else it will not work out.

Daisey, thanks for not taking the easy (lazy) way out like the BBW's have.  I do not need to pretend that I am attracted to an unhealthy fat woman just as I do not think she would pretend to be attracted to me if I didn't cut my hair, got a couple tattoos, pierced my nose or ear, quit my job and took a much easier and lower paying job.

I was not making a lot of money when we met...I was a college student.  That doesn't mean that she would tolerate it for one second if I wanted to go back to being a college student, decided to switch careers and expected her to support me for a few years while I went out and got a law degree or a medical degree.  So, BBW's out there...WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE???!!!

Anytime one person in a relationship, "Changes the Rules in the Middle of the Game", it's a problem. It seems, she lost weight before your wedding, to please you. You "settled" for less than your "ideal" sized woman, by excepting  her at a size 10, since it was better than the size 12 she had been, but far more than the size 6 you really wanted. Now, the question is, do you walk away to pursue your "ideal", or continue to try to pressure her, into becoming your ideal.? My approach is in the "therapist hat",soIsay to you.."See a therapist, TOGETHER...But you have to leave the "I'm OK, it's her that needs fixing" attitude, out side the door, otherwise, your wasting your time and money.  By going into therapy, realizing, you too, may need some attitude adjusting and fine tuning, then keep an open mind and be ready to lay your cards on the table, to make this work. Ultimatms(sp?) never work, so be honest and prepare to move on, if that's the direction, the sessions move in. A good, Cognitive Therapist, will lead them away from the "Blame Game" and other hurtful, non-productive dialog and focus on positive growth and constructive criticisim. But BEWARE...You may hear things about yourself that may surprise you...so be prepared to make some changes, if necessary, since no body is perfect and having a mirror held up to us is sometimes rather sobering, to say the least. But if your willing, counseling can be a life changing experience for you both, whether you decide to remain a couple, or go your separate ways...IMHO, a win win situation...Good luck to you both Sweetie, cause you both deserve to be happy..

to let his wife go, so that she can find someone who loves her the way she is and who doesn't want to change her into something else in order to keep her around.  Women are usually the ones who do that to men.  They find a man, then try to change him into what they want.  They make him their project.  That's so unfair!  It's one thing to encourage someone you care about to be the best they can be, but to demand someone changes from the person you met into someone who fits your fantasy is something else.

But, I think your advice is excellent, and your compassion is inspiring.  I wish Willy and his wife the best.

-- Modified on 5/7/2003 4:14:05 AM

and was in GREAT shape!  I was very active and execised a lot!  I am closer to 6'0" than I am to 5'4" though.  For me, at size 14, I was only slightly overweight and looked great in clothes.  So, let's not assume that all women who wear size 14 are obese and inactive.  And, it's unlikely I would have squished you during lovemaking (unless I wanted to), because my arms and legs were strong enough to support my weight.

Let me tell you, Willie. If your wife loved herself more, she will realize that she doesn't need you. One day, you may come home, and your bags will be packed downstairs waiting at the front door. You will ask her why? She will tell you: "I love myself now, and I realized that because I do, I don't really need a man to justify who I am as a woman. "

Take heed, for your time may come, Willie.

-- This thread has frankly amazed me... the fact that you say even if your sex life was great, you'd still sneak around behind her back (But oh, you do love her) frankly amazes me... but oh no, god forbid you go to a swingers club! LOL! Marriage should be EXCLUSIVE??? What a joke! --

Ummm...yeah.  Those two statements kind of threw me for a loop too.  If nothing else, the hypocrisy light flashed an awful bright warning.  I'm not much of a believer in the idea that marriage should be exclusive (too much Heinlein at too early an age appears to have moved my views of sex and love somewhere way off the cultural average), but if it -is- to be exclusive, it -has- to be so for both sides.

.

Her best advantage is for her to personally train herself to get enough courage to kick you the hell out, and let you personally train an olympic team or something.

Want to set and chat about Heinlein, let me know
My favorite was To Sail Beyond the Sunset!
Hugs*
Nicole

I know what you wrote looks good on paper and is advice that saturates women's magazines but it is just a case of women confusing their own experience of seaxuality (as dictated by society's mores) and trying to transfer it to males (and yes, men can do the same thing even though even the structure of men and women's brains is fundamentally different).

Men are visual creatures.  We don't copulate because we love or don't love you.  Either there is visual stimulation or there is not.  Nature is wise and had an excellent reason for the latter; visual stimulation assures that the males will attempt to mate with as many females as possible,,, conversely Nature has added genetic selectivity by making females more discriminating in choice of partners - to insure a varied and viable gene pool.  Indeed it may have a lot to do with the older man - younger woman situation,, as a male (in the wild) that has reached an older age, must have some traits that favor survival - hence this would be a trait to add to the genetic pool.

Not wanting to break the news that there is NO Easter Bunny,, but here it is sex has nothing to do with 'love', never has.  Women have been taught that sex without love is less desirable because society says that it reflects on the 'kind' of woman they are (if a woman has sex 'without' love she is deemed among her peers as a 'slut').  So their sexual experience is 'validated' by the presence of love - goes back to some very basic puritanical concepts that have nothing to do with our physiology or biology.

None of us attributes lofty concepts to the 'why' of why we eat food.  None of us says that for the experience of eating to be valid we must 'love' the cook who prepares it.  Eating, breathing, copulating.......  Nothing 'good' or 'evil' about it.  Sex is just part of the basic creature we are,,, designed like all creatures to be certain that the urge to mate and (potentially) procreate is always present.  This is part of the reason that the sex impulse is part of the most primitive part of our brain (coloquially referred to as the 'reptillian' portion of our brain,,, near the base of the brain - controls autonomic functions as well as centers for aggression, etc.)

We can still have fun and enjoy sex,,, but don't clothe a very basic function so that it fits into the 'corset' of societal puritanical ethics.

Argh!  Here we go again with the Puritans...  Look he doesn't want to mate with her because she isn't sexually attractive... has nothing NOTHING to do with 'loving' her or not.  That is a crock foisted on you by society.  As in my earlier post I ask the question; does one need to be in love with food to enjoy consuming it?  Of course not, because eating, breathing and copulating are all part of the most primitive portion of our most basic functions.  It is biology, plain and simple....  Once again, sorry, but there is NO Easter Bunny either....