Ok this question pops up on the newbie board a few times a month or so where someone asks how they can improve their chances of not getting caught cheating in p4p with their SO.  

On these boards, people conduct themselves as they do. Personally, I would not collude to break any trusting innocent's heart. But that's me. I don't expect others to have the same ethical code. However, I find it odd, on these boards, that anyone gives value to the notion of deciding what others "should" do.

and I suspect most guys on here feel the same.

If it bothers you, then just don't participate.

All's fair in love and war.

this is a hobby site, why wouldn't we share ideas on how to hobby without getting burned? And doesn't cheating account for a huge share of the total GNP of Hobbyland?

Everyone, including even the providers I assume, is going to have their own perspective on the actions of the attached men that make a large percentage of this community.

Personally, I'm single and have never cheated while in a LTR.  That's just my own code.  But I also know it's not the only way to look at it and that there are lots of legitimate reasons to stray while married.  I don't give anyone advice on how to not get caught because I'm fortunate in not having had to learn how to do it.

But when considering quantum theory, the answer becomes that unless a woman is there, there actually isn't even a man to say anything.

weird, ain't it?

Have to say Jack, you would be the last guy I would expect to have mixed feelings on this particular subject.  I would say that I dont have a huge issue on this front.  Mainly because what they do with said advice is their choice not mine.  They're going to do it anyway.  The lady or guy in question is going to cheat, regardless of what we say or do.  They've already crossed the border.

If a guy has a girlfriend or wife and hobbies, this is his personal business.

is he still wrong?

and it all depends on whether the pussy gets out of the box.

Morality as it relates to fidelity in relationships is above our pay grade. While we may not choose to cheat on our partners, we all are aware that we are dealing with people on and off the board that have partners. Some providers we see, may have boyfriends that are unaware of their providing, and in most cases, its a fair assumption that hobbyists are hobbying w/o their wives' knowledge.  

If you are married and you are fucking other women you are a CHEAT, unethical, and a CHEATER.   Let's call it what it is....If it smells like a fish, it's a fish.  I'm single so I have no issues being with a provider, in fact, it works better for me because it's on my schedule and time.  Plus no strings attached.   Once you got married you tied the knot with a women and gave her your trust, honesty, and values that you would NOT be a cheater.   When you were placing that ring on her finger 25 years ago were you thinking about your next date with a Provider?   If so, you are sick and need to get your head examined.  Plus you just made the WORST financial/business decision you have ever made.   You just gave up 50% of your net worth.

I acquired 50% of her net worth...

that many people consider you immoral and unethical for having sex with dozens of women for money?

If someone gave your SO info on how best to cheat on you, you'd be pissed at that guy/girl if you found out. Of course your main point of contention would be with the GF, and I realize that, but you wouldn't be thrilled with the helper, correct?

Don't you chime in stating what others should do at times? Haven't you stated that people shouldn't negotiate a girls rate?  

If you feel that we do, then by your own reasoning, we would also be duty bound to try and alert the wife about her husband's transgression. Now, if you are acquainted with both parties and your friend is asking you to help him cheat, that's a different, icky situation.

Like a few others here, I am not married and never cheated when I was, but I try very hard not to be judgmental about such things here, and I agree there is a HUGE difference between giving advice on how to cheat to strangers on the internet and telling your buddies wife how to get away with it. Although I confess, I rarely give much advice on how "not to get caught" as it's not really some I have any first hand experience in, nor do I care to.

I do think the topic is a lot more interesting than another "dick size" thread though. Good OP Jack.

I'd be pissed off at my hypothetical future wife's best friend for helping her cheat on me....But the setting for that communication is the outside world, which operates on a different moral code.

Every time you write a review or pass on a tip you're furthering your complicity. So it seems to me the bridge you're describing has long since been crossed.

I don't give such advice because I'm not cheating on anybody when I play, so I don't have any first-hand knowledge to share on that. And the topic seems odious and boring. The point is, it seems fine to decide whether or not to answer or comment on a case to case basis. If someone proposes that his will never find out where he's going if drives his truck down the wrong way on a one-way street, I might comment on that. I won't decide now to never relate to such posts on principle, though, because that decision would have no more significance than a decision I'd make when looking at the OP.

Very interesting thread - cant resist keeping it going.

I'm not saying that I agree....I'm just saying if it smells like fish, it's a fish.   I can care less if you are a cheater, unethical, dishonest...That's your life and you have to look at yourself and your wife in the mirror every morning not me.   I'm just called it the way people (normal people) would see it.   You can hobby all you like....I love it, it's great.  You get to get laid, I get it.

Mr.Fisher-  I can careless that you are a cheater.  It doesn't adversely effect my life.  I was just saying if you are married and you see a provider you are a CHEATER !  Dishonest and unethical.  Do you want to urge that?  Your a smart man so you know you can't, unless your wife says "honey, I don't want to have sex with your fat, old ass anymore, please go pay for it"   If that the case you are game to go !!   It's Now NOT cheating in my book

In any case, I'd gladly wear the title of "cheater" if it makes you feel better, but I am not morally affected that I have seen escorts without my wife's permission.

I also accept the dishonest label, but not the unethical one.  There is a wide gulf between the two tags which a moment's reflection will reveal.

Men got to screw.  Wives often don't like it.  So there is the hobby.  

Deal with it.

What is the point of registering moral indignation about married men seeing escorts anyways?

If Pope (Who am I too Judge?) Francis I can get over the gay thing, then you'd think we degenerates would have better things to do than point fingers at each other.

Ok, what does that have to do with me exactly?

As a proud member of the whole fish fraternity of fishy names (Fish, Fisher, Fishest, etc.) I would rather see this uninformed and anti-fish cliché retired.

Pick on something else for a while, please.

Maybe invoke Shakespeare's reference to Denmark made by his Mr. Marcellus in his play, Hamlet.  It would class things up a bit, don't you think?

I always wonder at the stereotypical reaction of the cuckolded husband taking his anger out on the other guy or the woman spitting venom at the other woman.  In my opinion, if the spouse cheats, he or she cheats.  It doesn't really matter who he or she is cheating with or how or what facilitated it.  The newbie asking for advice has already crossed the line and is asking those likeminded for advice.  For those of us who may have some experience in what he is going through, giving advice is merely "paying it forward".  We are not forcing or enabling him in the sense of talking him down a path of sin--he has already decided to do that himself (whether he chooses to acknowledge it or not).  For those who cannot relate to his situation, feel free to ignore his request.  I see this situation as quite similar to those which pop up quite frequently about burner phones and computer search engine advice.  Many inquiring about these are equally as concerned about an SO finding out about their activities as they are about LE involvement.  If I have learned anything over the past few years I have been in this community, we all have our issues, so "live and let live".  No judgments...unless you prove yourself to be a douche.  Then the gloves come off...    (I am speaking generally and not calling anyone in this forum a douche...please do not misinterpret my speaking freely here.)

Simply by being smart about P4P.
 

This is as close to pissed as I have ever seen you!

Good points though.  

eom

that particular person.

Funny though, that person doesn't look exactly like this Luca.

There are some guys whose wives won't have sex with them any more.  Sex being a normal human need, they have every right to get it elsewhere.  If either partner refuses the other's legitimate needs it is, to me, breaking a fundamental part of the marriage contract.  So no hypocrisy there.
Also, what's so fuckng sacred about marriage vows?  Half of all marriages end in divorce anyway.  To me, marriage is an institution that has outlived its traditional usefulness.
As I said above, I never played around when I was married (twice), but I have no issues with people who do, as long as they are careful and don't expose their spouse to disease or public embarrassment.

All this deep ethical shit is making my head hurt. But it has reminded me of a great story involving quite the ethical dilemma. When I have ladies over, they often ask how I came through the divorce with the house. So ...

Take a look at me at about 1:45 below.

I'll take Ren any day

I never cheated on my ex (who was cheating on me).   I never cheated in my current marriage until she totally shut the intamicy off.  No touching, no kissing, no cuddling, & especially no sex.  It has belatedly occured to me that she simply doesn't like it & never has...  has been avoiding for the last 25 years.  I'm not ready to become totally celibate yet...  so I decided to go outside.  It's not something I ever wanted.

I can definitely empathize with the women who get hurt because, as a kid, I found out how deception in a marriage can have disastrous effects on so many others, possibly for the rest of their lives.  If marriage means anything it has to be based on trust.  As a fellow hobbyist I try not to judge others because I don't know them or their situation...but I'd feel very differently if any of my married female relatives, especially my sisters, had to deal with husbands who cheat.   Just my two cents worth from a happily single guy.

reportedly set up house with both his wife AND his mistress, who actually were two different people.

Us passing judgement, or offering help and advice to a fellow human being?  I think the "ethical" choice here is pretty clear, however others may disagree.