Where did I say anything about holistic medicine?
I said, paraphrased for simplicity, Dr. Gupta, that these drugs are overprescribed as bandaids and that we should start figuring out WHY people are anxiety-ridden and depressed in ridiculous numbers.
That damned drug...(Pexeva) kicked my ass for 5 years. It made me thikn that I had to accept that becoming 40 meant one pop and only another after 2 more hours, if I was lucky.
Talk about depressing. Actually, DEVASTATING. I felt utterly emasculated. Anyhow I really got fed up with the junk. I was always tired, felt removed from the world...not interested in anything anymore.
When I first started taking the SSRI I remember as if my personality was sloguhing off of me. Lousy. Stay away from this junk. I decided that my shrink was a useless state sanctioned dealer and quit my SSRI via the taper method because the withdrawal is horrible. Nasty, nasty, nasty shit.
I've also found a fabulous therapist who has taught me some basic biofeedback with which to regain concious control of how my body reacts to stress. Works like a charm.
I quit the junk and feel like a million bucks. I have energy......
Best of all I get woodies like a 20 year old!
Easily a pop an hour. My ATF is very happy. I turn her into a sloppy, wet, multi-orgasmic mess. Much fun for this Scorpio, things are back to as they should be!
Fuck the junk. Grit and bear it, and tackle your issues head on.
Millions upon millions of people in this country are taking SSRIs for conditions such as depression and anxiety.
In fact, they are SO prevalent that according to one study, 1 out of 3 visits women make to doctors in the US was for initiation or maintenance of an SSRI prescription. Dunno how prevalent it is in men, but we can pretty much bet too many men are taking them too.
We need to get a CLUE in this country. Yes, people are depressed and anxious. But it is generally NOT because of some sort of genetically predisposed neurotransmitter imbalance. If it were, humanity would never have lived past the caveman days. "Sorry hun, I can't go slay a mammoth for dinner because I'm really depressed and having panic attacks."
People are depressed and anxious due to aspects of the current sociological environment. WHAT those aspects are is beyond the scope of a board post. The bottom line, though, is that people CAN learn to cope effectively without being DRUGGED.
SSRIs VERY often cause varying degrees of sexual dysfunction in men and women alike to the extent that in many cases I would liken the effects to chemical castration of both sexes.
Of course, if someone is severely depressed they don't want sex anyway; so the effect is either not noticed, not of concern or whatnot. But what few realize is that in many people the sexual dysfunction (especially lack of desire or anorgasmia) can CONTINUE for years after cessation of dosage.
but really understand way too little! While I agree that SSRI's and benzo's are totally over used, and afford a doctor an easy solution to keep a patient coming back to spend more money, people who make claims like this or talk about biofeedback, hole-istic medicine, etc only show their ignorance of the facts. This may work for a small group of people who really aren't clinically depressed in the first place, and their quack doctors hook them on this crap forever.
However, ask a clinically depressed, anxiety ridden patient this: If given the choice of feeling human again means you will have trouble sexually, do you want SSRI treatment? The answer will be overwhelmingly yes! They already don't give a shit about sex anyway. They are too depressed and tired to get a hardon anyway.
Later after treatment success, they have their life back, and the rest comes with it. They will have less sexual problems than the rest.
Problem here lies with the higher number of just plain poor ass doctors being pumped out of med school. It is SCARY to work with them. Even if they speak some English, they know very little, have low confidence in decision making, but huge egos!
In the right hands, SSRI's work perfectly well, with minimal sexual side effects.
The only thing worse than the crap doctors in this country, are people who know just enough to pick up a PDR, read the package insert reprinted on the page, then go into public forums and make blanket statements concerning things they have no idea about.
A little knowledge is a dangerous weapon!
First of all, I am not making a claim. I speak my truth. Second I am not ignorant that their is a place to employ these substances.
Third, most psychiatrists, much like auto mechanics, do not know what the fuck they are doing.
They shotgun trouble shoot and only treat symptoms without isolating root cause.
I'm a smart motherfucker and I knew this was what was going on, but I decided to roll with the "program" for a while to see where it lead me. That place ended up being an emotionally dead end. A slow chemical lobotomy. Sleep 12 hours, no energy, no drive to do anything. I wonder if I have the basis for a malpractice suit sometimes. I've been robbed of the last 5 years of my life as far as I'm concerned.
Fact of the matter is as a response to stress, without even realizing it, I had developed a breathing pattern which completely threw my blood chemistry off leading to anxiety symptoms. As in landing in the ER with 220 BPM, chest pain, etc...
A little pulmonary retraining over the course of two weeks has proven far more effective than dope.
What is truly dangerous as well is folks inferring other conclusions than what is presented and leaving a trail of straw-men to trip upon.
As far as benzos go......Interesting drug, I can see how people develop a habit with them but it isn't classically addictive like an opiate. I'd say thy're far less insidious than SSRI's.
Where did I say anything about holistic medicine?
I said, paraphrased for simplicity, Dr. Gupta, that these drugs are overprescribed as bandaids and that we should start figuring out WHY people are anxiety-ridden and depressed in ridiculous numbers.
It even has the word 'anal' in it!
And you did mean 'analyze', right doc?
Jelly
"People are depressed and anxious due to aspects of the current sociological environment."
Yup. The world at times can outstrip our ability to adopt.
So many conditions can be treated holistically with much better results and much lower cost, ot only financially but in terms of side effects.
Mental and physical exercise and discipline are the way to go.
This is what the health bill should be about.
(Vote for mrfisher and free massages with happy endings for all!)
I would also recommend ( as I have before ), the great book "Feeling Good" by Dr David D Burns who is a noted cognitive behavioral psychiatrist.
The book has sold many millions of copies &, in my opinion, does wonders for lessening & preventing symptoms of a depressive mindset.
One question about the SSRI's : if they greatly impair libido,wouldn't that cause the patient to become more depressed ?
Something to mull over.
I'm down with the Happy Endings!
A friend of mine who had recently become divorced used to chuckle like a hyena on the way to the masseuse because his ex-wife had to pay for it.
Sweet vengeance!
-- Modified on 3/20/2010 9:49:05 AM
that in times of stress and depression ...
getting a good massage will do wonders for your mind, body and libido!! I've been practicing massage for almost 16 years now and I truly believe that alternative medicine and eastern healing will do much more for you in the long run than western doctors prescriptions ever could. So next time you feel down and out - go get a fabulous massage!! I promise you'll feel sooooo much better ....
Kissez that make your dick stand up
Sage
I am a holistic practicioner and herbalist. I can help some and not others. As Americans we have many choices. I believe more of us need to take responsibility for our own lives, consult those we trust (doctors, ministers, grandmothers), research Rx before using, and when in doubt ask more questions and seek more opinions. Let us not judge others choices. Peace.
While SSRI's have been known to cause libido problems so does depression. I have never heard of 1 death related to decreased libido, not true of depression. Many people need these medications to live a normal life. I am happy things worked out for you but you are only one person. I would encourage any patient to discuss concerns they may have with SSRI's with there doctor( a psychiatrist not a M.D. in my opinion is the only person that should be managing these medications for you.) There are other medications available that may have less side effects from individual to individual because frankly it does not sound like your med was working anyway. Not all meds effect all patients the same way so thanks for telling us how they effect YOU! Not neccissarily someone else. p.s. I'm mostly a holistic practitioner and don't like doctors that over medicate patients or doing so myself. Finally your last statement "Fuck the junk. Grit and bear it, and tackle your issues head on" I find to be border line dangerous. Are you giving medical advice?
"Grit and bear it, and tackle your issues head on" I find to be border line dangerous. Are you giving medical advice?"
Everyone is too fast with the pills knowadays. If the person is in no danger to themself or others they should be prescribed a course of action that stimulates the body to naturally adjust it's chemicals.
I.e....A script for limited hours at work, physical exercise, and straight up couch time with someone to develop coping skills. Chemicals should not be a FIRST option. Simple fact of the matter is they get introduced to soon in the process and in my opinion the MD has not put in enough time to truly determine the exact DSM.
You end up with folks exhibiting other problems because they were put on something they never should have had prescribed in the first place.
You don't know about psychiatrists much either. A great many of them simply do not have the psycho-pharmacological background with which to make truly informed decisions.
They never take enough time with patients and they are terrible at identifying a multi- spectral disorder.
Most of them manage an insurance mill running through patients like cattle at the abattoir. They farm out the cognitive therapy and analysis to the not necessarily qualified psychologists on staff who have no concept of brain chemistry.
As far as giving medical advice goes.....if that's how you choose to interpret what I've said that's your choice. Ingesting these chemicals without a previous thorough diagnosis clearly indicating a condition is as dangerous as random surgery.
-- Modified on 3/20/2010 10:02:59 AM
First, congratulations and good luck on taking some action.
There are many valid points on both sides here, so I won't repeat. I will only urge vigilance in watching out for other symptoms creeping back over time. These often can be managed with active work (exercise, seeing a psychologist or group, etc.).
Also, as has been pointed out, there are other meds and doing is critical - not to mention it can change over time. Managing these things can be a life long process or, hopefully, short term.
I'm there with you. Good luck.
I'm good. Maybe a little short.
I don't tolerate having to explain myself over and over again. Pisses me off when folks don't listen. So yes, I'm a bit of a dickhead.
Thank fucking God.
Fired a thief this week on a hunch and proved it not much afterwards.
I am vigilante. Fairly sure that this is a past event not to be revisited. The old dog has learned a new trick or two!
The man has gotten himself off of some very nasty drugs, and is finally feeling in charge of his life, he comes he to crow about it a little bit, instead of allowing him a moment in the sun, you have to go all buzz kill on him.
Let the man enjoy his moment in the sun, I find his statement to be much less dangerous than many of your "holistic bretheren", and "new age quacks". The OP was posting as a layman and never made the pretense of having any medical training, can you same the same about many "holistic healers"?
Fuck the junk. Grit and bear it, and tackle your issues head on.
Because of the stigma many place on themselves or others place on them, many clinically depressed patients try to do it on their own. They fight with it for years, continue to get worse, plus feel guilty about being a "weakling"! In the end they are the ones who wnd up swallowing a gun, jumping off a bridge, or start a shootout with cops, so they can kill him!
NOTE: I am talking about truly clinically depressed people! They don't have the energy to fight, and late lose the will. No amount of "twigs and berries", or recordings of the ocean will help them. The SSRI class of drugs have saved more lives than the sex lives they've harmed.
I know, as I sit on the other side of the fence in this battle and lost 10 years of my life to depression.
If you can get off SSRI's, and live normally...GREAT! You probably never needed them in the first place, but your Doc found a way to keep you paying for his country club membership!
My last line stands.
Pills are prescribed too fast, and you know it.
It's an artificial epidemic in this country, people just can't, "deal with it".
So stop hanging your straw-man upon a thread. My point is clearly obvious. Bark up a tree you can climb.
The people you are referring to, "severely depressed" are the minority of whom are prescribed SSRI's. Their is something fundamentally wrong with that. You know it as well.
-- Modified on 3/21/2010 10:11:25 AM
When I was young, I was prescribed valium from some quack my parents went to. I am so happy I had the sense to spit the fucking things out, or who knows what kind of drugged out zombie I could have become.
After a few months they somehow decided I no longer needed medication, little did they know, I never took the damn things to begin with. lol
Now, I have NOT advocated "holistic medicine" or any of that jazz.
And I DO realize that, as an intervention, they may be necessary. And if so, they should be prescribed by someone with a clue.
At the same time, a lot of studies are starting to roll in about side effects. Not just stuff like sexual dysfunction. Stuff like cardiac defects in newborns, delays in breast milk, premature birth risk and stuff like that.
This stuff ain't candy, doc. The side effects are real. Now, I understand that all medications have side effects and that they would only be prescribed if, in the Dr.'s opinion, their benefits in a given case outweighed the risks.
But let's get real. Tens of millions of Americans are popping anti-depressants to get through their day.
Instead of applying psychoactive drugs as a quick and insurance-friendly fix ... can you please tell me why in the hell so many people are so depressed or anxiety-ridden that they are needing pills to survive?
Does it even make SENSE from an evolutionary perspective that some huge percentage of our population would be born with debilitating imbalances in neurotransmitters? It makes no sense to ME doc. But I'm not a doctor, just a scientist.
You must see that these pills are treating the symptom but not the cause.
WHY isn't the cause -- and I don't mean the biochemical cause -- being addressed? Is anything being done to ascertain exactly what has changed to make this happen?
Why is it that in just a couple of generations usage of these drugs has gone sky high?
And, no, I am not giving medical advice. But I think I am asking some worthwhile questions.
Your thoughts?
Though I've taken SSRI's in the distant past, and have used various methods to eliminate prescription meds. and remain depression free ever since, I cannot recommend that anyone give medical advice, here on this board. I find nothing wrong with reporting what has worked for you, but to recommend that someone stop their treatment against doctors orders can be very dangerous.
I do feel anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds. are way overly prescribed, an there are better alternatives for most people, though some others get to the point that only medication can keep them safe. Only a good and ethical doctor can tell the difference. The trick is finding a good and ethical doctor.
P.S. I'm glad you found a path away from SSRI's as I have.