So I have been hobbying now for over 10 years.  Mostly here in the US, but also in Europe and Asia enough to have established some viewpoints.  The first hypothesis I had was that american women and men too, have a streak of prudishness in them that is much less prevalent than their European counterparts.  Why do I say that?  Well, if I look at how we treat escorting in the US, with a few exceptions in Nevada, its just illegal everywhere else in the US.  And our politicians are constantly telling us its bad, and no one of any political stature is willing to get up and say, if women want to charge men for sex let them.  Now compared to Europe, there are far many more places where it is legal.  And politicians and consumers don't seem very uptight about it even in countries where it is illegal.  People just seem to accept it.  Watch regular TV programs in American.  You won't find exposed tits and nipples, or a guys dick or a woman's vagina...the network censors would freak.  Watch TV in europe in most countries and you will see people having sex all the time.  Nobody bats an eye.

So then I got to thinking that a more open, mature, comfortable view of human sexuality in Europe has got to play out in a way that might be analyzable by some statistics.  For instance, europeans in my experience are much more open sexually, willing to try new things than their US counterparts.  At least that was my guess.  So how would that manifest itself?  Think about anal sex.  My theory was that if you took a population of people (even escorts) and asked those that live in the US if they were open to that versus a similar population of European based escorts, that the percent frequency would be higher in Europe than in the US.  

So I used the search feature of TER to test this theory.  I searched in the US for all providers who answered "yes" to sex and then varied their answer to whether they provided greek services.  I took all comers...those with 1 review to hundreds of reviews.  All ages, all ethnic backgrounds.  Then I calculated this for one city, in this case Los Angeles.  Now its true, the sample could include women from other cities (even other countries) but my thinking was that even if "non americans" were included in the sample, it would skew the results to higher levels of providing greek than actually occurs.  Then I did the same thing for providers in London England.  Again I took all comers, including those of different race and ages.  For sure there will be many women from czech republic, hungary, france etc who wind up ending up in the sample...but these are all european so I figured its a good sample of European based providers.  The sample size for LA was a little over 7,000 providers and for the London set, it was smaller, about 2500.  The smaller sample size in UK was possibly due to providers there using other reviewing services that might be a bit more popular than TER.  However, I think its a decent sized sample.  So what were the results?  In the US for Los Angeles, the number of providers who indicated they provided greek service was 27%...but for London UK, the same question revealed that a whopping 57% provided this service.  Thats a 2 to 1 ratio difference.  I concluded that my belief that european women were more sexually adventurous and open to a greater variety of sexual activities perhaps due to a less repressive societal impact may well be born out by some interesting data!

the first time I heard this hypothesis, was from a provider friend who was dating a European man. He knew exactly what she did for a living, and was fine with it. She informed me that Europeans have a much more sophisticated viewpoint of p4p and sex in general. P4P, she said, is not so stigmatized over there, and 'sex worker' is, if not exactly a desirable occupation, is at least acknowledged as a legitimate (and even interesting) way to make a living. A girl isn't automatically branded WHORE because she provides - she can be a mother, student, artist, whatever...and also, a sex worker. They get it.

As for anal, I don't see where 'open-minded' or 'prudishness' comes into play with that. In my case (I can't speak for anybody else), it's preference. I gave anal a fair shot, and I found that I didn't enjoy it. I might try it again at some point, but not in a p4p context, because my experience is that men who pay for it, often (not always) expect it without consideration for my comfort, or the realities of my anatomy. That solely reflects my experience, so take it for what it's worth.  

My hypothesis is that the prevalence of anal in London shows that the legal sex trade is more competitive, and more commercial, than it is here. What I've personally noticed is that clients from London are much more acts- and performance-oriented, while clients here are much more GFE-oriented. My local clients want a girl to fall in love with me for an hour or two, my London clients want a Service Provider. The London guys are generally NOT the ones emailing me for OTC dinners. i won't get an email from them 15 minutes after I leave, saying, 'I miss you'. But they are VERY specific about what acts they like, and are not afraid to ask for them by name.  

Just my observations.

I realized this difference in sophistication and enlightenment very early on simply because I was a fan of foreign movies. In Europe and as a matter of fact in most part of the world except the USA and the Arab world sex is treated as-matter-of-fact casual and spontaneous.  

You fellow americans should be glad to know when it comes to sex (and something very closely related, prostitution) the USA is at the same caveman mentality as the Muslim world.

Yay! what a mother-fucken culture we have to be so proud of... NOT

I am not European but from a more progressive country and there are just some things I do not like. However as far as nudity and other things, I am more than comfortable. I tend to NOT do things I hate to do even for money and have no issue if guys go elsewhere for it. I know my self and my body and what feels good and what is repugnant.

I do not like seeing acts type guys but more the GFE type. They are easier to deal with although you still have to have fairly strict boundaries or you end up with some love sick guy who will not leave you alone. I prefer that than some guy pressing me to d things I do not like

There is a debate going on as to why you seem to have this hatred of men.  I'm sorry if you were abused as a kid...but to hate all members of the species is just not the solution.

Maybe find a different shrink who can help direct you to find a solution for your pain.

Was your mother abused as well?

We are all different, and with our own hangups. We're all just bumbling through life the best we can trying to make sense of it - even the prudes lol, no judgement from me.  And I'll still take America over Europe any day (though yeah, love traveling to Europe).

-- Modified on 4/17/2015 11:20:40 PM

One of the most striking things about American men when discussing FKK clubs, is how often they get worried/say they won't like it because they'll be around men as well... and god forbid, they might see a flaccid dick when a guy goes into a sauna or pool. That seems to be so terrifying, that some guys seem to be willing to forgo the opportunity of seeing 100+ naked girls looking for work... just because they might see a naked dude on a tanning bed. I hardly ever hear this from European men that are thinking about going to a club.

 
In my experience btw, anal is far more rare than you found (escorting is a small part of the business). What makes the whole thing fun is that most of the working girls are very regular girls that only do it for a few years. Very few women that make a long career out of it. Doing sexwork for a few years is acceptable I guess (althuogh these are often girls from poor European countries). I think there was a poll in Russia once, where a large majority of women thought it was acceptable to work as a prostitute if it was needed

Perhaps this is the time and place to discuss the topic.

My take:

It is perfectly fine to hate men, as they are capable of doing things that are quite despicable.  To accuse someone of being a man-hater is a form of shaming, and should cease.  Consider that love and hate are composites, and show a great capacity for emotion, which is not a bad thing, and certainly beats apathy.

I think that an honest poll would indicate that man hating is a very common trait among women in general, and for escorts in particular owing to the forced close proximity in which they have to work with men.

All that now said, what is it about H&T's post that reveals any man-hatred in the first place?  I don't see how her statement that she prefers GFE guys over acts guys as anything more than a preference, and that hardly rises to an act of hatred, does it?   A discussion of that is germane, but tossing out labels is not.

And lest it be pointed out:  Yes, everything I said above about man-hating is relevant to woman-hating as well.

It's a rhetorical question...in case you actually wanted to post a real reply  LOL

You have followed h+t's posts carefully...and you have communicated with her via email as I have over the years.

Whatever her issues are with the male species is hers to own.  That's fine.  All I'm doing is probing to see why she is even doing a job that requires some level of interest in a species she has NO interest in spending any time around.  

You should go and see her fisher...just be careful.  Her hatred of the species certainly has gone from just ambivalent to perhaps a dangerous level of contempt.  

As for shaming someone...I don't shame anyone.  I haven't forced her, or any poster to put up such negative comments...over and over.

If you need me to pull up her old posts on her prior handle to refresh your memory...just PM me and I'd be happy to point you in the right direction.

There are some women who do hate men.  There are some men that do hate women.  But I honestly pity those that, due to unfortunate circumstances, are "forced" to be subservient to those they hate.  Seems we can see those results on the 6:00 newscast!

Maybe you can assist h+t in getting some education to land a position other than on her back?  Also...try and find a women owned and friendly business where no contact with males is likely!

I don't know "hbyist+truth=;("  but I interpret her "stage name" to mean "hobbyist plus the truth equals sadness" I wonder if it reflects her attitude about the profession or her feelings about her clients.  I should probably post this question to her but I'm sure she will see it and perhaps reply.

My handle is based on a hooker telling the real truth on here and having some men get very upset about it. Hence some of the replies you have already read in this thread.  

It does not reflect how I feel about doing this or the MEN I SEE.

-- Modified on 4/18/2015 9:28:43 AM

But even then she had already begun her descent into the abyss.

Now that she's come up with this new handle...her descent seems complete.

Honestly...there are some women in this business who are trapped due to circumstance.  She's apparently one of them.  Fortunately most of the gals I've known over the years are here short term...do the job and move along to the next chapter of their lives.   I've known a few who are lesbian and have no interest sexually with men.  However, in none of those cases have they had such disdain for the male species as h+t bloviates she has.

This should be a voluntary stop in life for a woman who is here...clearly (IMHO) h+t is here not necessarily of her own volition.  Hence the repeated posts from her dissing how disgusting the men are that "seek her out".

It's sad  

I don't see anyone getting upset here...aside from fisher who thinks there is some agenda here  LOL

You post over and over your disdain for men...just own it here!

As well...your negativity is duly noted with every post you make.  Why the need to assert that you aren't an unhappy person in life?  Your posts clearly spell this out!

Substitute in the word "women" or any racial minority into that phrase and see how it sounds.
It's the same thing.
Realize that all are different and unique and relish that.  If a lady is a man-hater then she really isn't a good fit for this biz.

And H&T? She seems okay to me, just a lady with strong opinions (which are often interesting) - but what the hell do I know.

He doesn't look like a GFE type to me, but I think you'd like to take him for a test ride...

He has a vagina.

Thanks for clarifying that for me,

See a show at Arline's Grocery. Drink lots of beer while you are there.
Then walk down to The Slipper Room, and don't forget to have fun.
If you don't find it there. Go to Bushwick Brooklyn.
This is the U.S. try to remember people left those countries to have a life here.

But sure he is delightful and I love his ink.  Remember I said if he is respectful, gentle and and not an asshole. If he is none of those, then he gets it for free.

END OF MESSAGE

"This is the U.S. try to remember people left those countries to have a life here."

You actually made a relevant point for once

Of course that doesn't mean you can hit them over the head with heavy objects or deprive them of their rights.

As I said, it is apathy that is the more problematic of the two points of view.  A lot more harm to the world occurs owing to apathy than hate/love.

To actually hate someone/something one would need to be vested in the issue.  Why anyone on a discussion board is invested in anything would indicate a much higher level of mental issues.

I also suggest that much more harm IRL occurs directly due to hate/love.  Apathy is irrelevant in aggression.

The fervent hate that certain religious groups have for those they hate is leading to a lot of heads being lopped off currently, and that's something to consider.

But I still maintain that it is the broad stretch of apathy among those who could help but are just not wanting to for reasons of apathy that in the long run is responsible for more of the world's pathology.  I think that the bulk of humanity has their heart in the right place, but it too often it remains unengaged.  Such conditions are fertile ground for the extremists who give passion a bad name.

view point is accurate.  

I think offering more services that are in demand the main objective for these european women may in fact simply be that is more lucritive.

That is a service that is in demand and you simply put if running this from a business perspective where your trying to maximize your popularity and amount your capable of charging.

 
I first got introduced to the lucridiveness of greek when training to be in porn with an adult entertainment agency in Boston in my eary twenties. Simply put part of the training was getting the colt anal trainer kit, i was told to start with smallest size and put it in hour per day every day, To work my way up to larger size.  

One the other job requirements was to have french acrylic mani and pedi. That was another one the job requirements for this modeling company,  

 
   The manager of the company said to me, There are 100 lb 18 year old blondes in l.a. doin it all {in porn} and for me I was 22 at the time, and brunette. He said if you wanna make any money at all in the porn industry you really have to be doin it all. Meaning thinking i am gonna make any cash in porn at 22, brunette and not offering anal, he basically was sayin um yeah it aint gonna happen.

 

 
any hoo. I think if your in this biz to make money its just stupid to not offer greek. Yes anal training is a "pain in the ass" but i mean I think if your tryin to actually make any money at all the more of a "tight ass" you are and the more your willing to master and learn acts that are in demand,  

 
for me i feel I am alot older and not as pretty as some the competition I am at competition with in Boston.

 
If i wanna stay in demand and busy and in busness I think wether Ienjoy it or am adventurous or not, it is just a wise choice from a business stand point.
 I dont think being adventurous is thier motice I am almost 100 percent certain all those european women are day dreaming of what outfits they are gonna buy at la perla or agent provocateur at the end the work week.  

 
                       I tell all my clients how much i love anal and love my butt plug {for showmanship reasons} during the appt.

 
I could give two shits if i ever took another dick in my ass for as long as i live to be honest!

but it does make you alotta money and is wise choice to offer, depends , if your doin this and need to stay in your little comfort zone, or if your willing to actually train and provide services , hell maybe you dont like it but if it means you can demand an extra 50 on your flat rate and pull that off long term, because so many services are offered