While I do not disagree with much of what you have written, I tend to disagree that we need to define rues as if we were dealing with a single individual(The GFE).

Each provider is an individual and as such has their own guidelines.  The best of the guys learns to listen to and to work within the parameters of the specific provider.

However I agree totally with your subject line.  GFE's do rule.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Sad part is, you probably aren't.
Whether or not anyone agrees with you, who the phuck are you to determine or dictate "rules"?
Live your life and let everyone else live theirs. You haven't done shit with this post other than waste a lot of time writing it and making yourself look like a weenie.

Now go back to watching Oprah.

Will wonders never cease-------

having fun means no rules, but if I want guidelines for hobbying safely and respectfully I'll go to the Newbie board. Third, do you really expect me to read all that?

The next topic for the OP writer : "Will a provider take the following Xmas gift as a barter
in exchange for "services" ?-------

Manginas running amok. Off topic banter from guys with no life, lesbians keeping each other company when business is down, and now newbies falling out of the trees gracing us with their wisdom and effeminate rules.

Honestly there Ziggy, I do appreciate the laugh but you need a triple injection.  

How about this. You schedule an appointment, enjoy yourself, pay the lady and move on. Everyone is happy.    

I love GFE. As I have posted before, most of the time when I am with a GFE provider, I fall in love with her during our time together. That glow carries with me for a few days. Sure, I know it is a fantasy, but it is a very sweet one. I also know it is a risky game, that can easily create confusion, chaos and worse.

Aside from her skill at sex and intimacy, part of what makes it so great is the ambiguity - one never knows what is real and what is performance, and even the performance is an expression of who she is, tailored to who I am and what I like - wonderful on many levels with a beautiful and interesting woman. So I suspend my disbelief, live in that moment and have a hell of a good time. But I also started out with certain rules, and study up on TER so I can continue to refine those rules by seeing where trouble arises.

So what are the best GFE practices for a hobbyist? (Ladies if you want to share the same for yourselves, feel free, but I do not think you should as I love the mystery and do not want to know any secrets you do not wish to share). I admit that after spending a certain amount of time together the rules will change by mutual consent, but I also think that staying as close to these rules as possible is always a good thing. When we wander too far away, things get messy, confused and dangerous for everyone.

1. The lady is a business woman and she sells her time. Only communicate with her when you are planning to meet or thanking her for a meeting. It is okay to communicate with her about other things at those times, at first because she wants to know who you are, and later because it is just pleasant, but do not take up her time when there is no transaction in sight.

2. Be open and friendly to her communications whenever she wishes to contact you, so long as her communication is open and friendly (as opposed to demanding or clearly manipulative, in which case you probably should not see her). If she chooses to communicate with you when no transaction is in sight, treat her as you would any other friend, but let her take the lead.

3. Never say you love her. If you think you love her, tell her you are feeling emotionally confused and need to take a break for a while because you fear you are confusing fantasy with reality. (In the very unlikely event that you are on the road to some bizarre fairy tale ending where you both fall in love and live happily ever after, you have given her an opportunity to explore that without being a problem, but do not expect that to happen because you will be disappointed!!!) Then do not see her or communicate with her for three months. See some other ladies and try to forget about her while you are with them. If you find you cannot, you probably should not see her again.

4. Never negotiate prices with her. If you ask and she agrees to give you a special price, or if someone you have not met just offers you a special price, this is most likely a very bad thing. Maybe it is just me, but this has never once turned out well for me. On the other hand, if someone you know and like offers some free time, or refuses to take your money, say thank you and be flattered because she is giving you a special present, probably the most precious present she can give you. But do not expect or ask for more gifts, as that is both greedy and rude.

5. Never ask her why. Just accept it, or speculate to yourself if you must. Why attacks the illusion, and the answer will not answer anything at all.

6. Do not see the same lady too often. How often that is will depend on you and your feelings - since I fall in love each time, I would never see anyone more than once a month. I need the love to fade away and be replaced by love for someone else before I return in order to keep a clear head. Others may be less romantic and so able to see a lady more often. But set a rule on this and while it is okay to break it sometime, if you start breaking it routinely, you should start looking for another regular, or two.

I could add a bunch more, but rather than try to make a complete list, I will let others add their rules for proper hobbyist GFE behavior, things we should or should not do, as it amuses you.

Zig

Personally, if I wanted rules to fuck someone by, I'd fall in love and get married.  I'd buy the house, white picket fence & all.  Don't get me wrong, I wash my nuts & ass before stuffing her face down there, and I pay her with US currency instead of strips of paper.  I'm a good guy but I sure as hell don't need you telling me how to behave with my paid help.  So, there's my list.

"Buy the house, white picket fence & all,"......Holy shit!  Then you really would be truly fucked!  I know, I've done it twice.  I'd rather pay a provider and have it straighforward and simple.  No lawyers needed, either.

Just as soon as this guy pays for my visits, he can dictate the parameters.

Otherwise he can impose his rules the only place they apply: with himself.

Seems to me there are all these posts here where people say there is this situation and look what is happening, and the wise men cry, how could you do that, you never do that. I listen, I remember and based on all that I figured I would just list some of the lines I have drawn, that work for me and see what lines others draw.

Not a good idea, it seems. Oh well. Someone needs to put a kick me sign on his ass every day, and it was my turn.

HH, pretty nice graphics. I loved the Christmas present.

Zig

Or where they SHOULD be! lmao!!!

Just fucking with you, man. You got beat up enough for the day.

TRY to have a cool Thanksgiving!

considered as "paid helf"?  WTF  She is not your maid or gardener.  Do you consider your attorney or physician "paid help" too?

We pay for a lady's time and then for her to go away.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Whoops!  Key, it's been said, by "author unknown.'
"When a guy goes to a hooker, he's not paying her for sex, he's paying her to leave."  ~Author Unknown

nasty, but a ring of truth...
OK, go on, flame me, I love abuse!

Whew!  This is all some funny shit!  Maybe unintentional but funny all the same.  Thanks, all, whether you meant it or not!

It's clear you have good intentions. You look at the post by HonestProvider for example and say "Wow, that's a bad thing -- maybe I can help prevent it!"

But here's the problem -- we're all different.

Something that I can do with utter emotional safety might be the thing that pushes some other guy over the edge. A boundary that is totally comfortable for one hobbyist or provider might be too constraining for another.

This whole thing is very individual. We're all different in what works for us; and there is no such thing as one-size-fits-all.

I'll tell you right now that while I don't break all the rules with all providers; there is SOME standard rule I break with every one of them, though it is a different rule in each case.

I don't see "providers" I see individual women. They are adapted to individually.

Know what I mean?

Got drunk at the titty bar one night and i wrestled  my favorite bartender on the floor.  I did not know she had a anger problem and she  legg locked me and broke 3 ribs before I realized it.  Never fuck with a czech bartender especialy if she was a horse trainer.  All I was able to do after that was give her some serious rug burn trying to throw her off.  Dont ask me about the monkey bites.

Rules we dont need no stinken rules.

Or so I've heard...!

I think it's the Bad Mexicans in "Treasure of the Sierra Madre," as in "Badges?  We don' need no stinkin' badges!"

We know you. Fuck this fucking fuckhead. JG's the shit. You know this.

Fucking asshole can suck my ass!

My guess, analyzing myself, is that it is my way of sort of over-compensating for places where I either can't be a nice guy, or wasn't a nice guy.

Good thing I'm not Catholic. If I were I'd never make it out of the confessional. LOL

I like getting bit, slapped, beaten with paddles and light floggers.

But the best is when the region around my dick is sore as fuck because I was pounding the hell out of a lady and our pubic bones slammed against each other's so fucking much!

The soreness goes on for days, and whenever I rub up against something, or bend over to do something, the memory makes me smile!

And never been in a confessional!

Mainly cuz I can justify my actions and my reasons. In my mind and soul, anyway...

Care to esplain?

That graph is the funniest freakin thing Ive seen in a long time!!!!

Like they say: "Hurts so good."

Ziggy,

You are a sweetheart.  If you care enough to write this thread, chances are you have absolutely nothing to worry about when it comes to dealing with providers.

The guys who cross the line, stalk, and down right annoy the hell out of us will never admit they're doing anything wrong, much less be proactive enough to try to prevent problems from arising.

If I wasnt using an alias, Id say check out my website and come see me if youre ever in my city!

... bitter, jaded & cynical about the social structure of male-female relationships, and what it takes to have one's needs met within that structure?


HalfHour

No matter what you post, you gotta ge ready fot the assclown with a chip on his shoulder to come at you. You gotta show what your made of or be chased off like so many are.
...it's not as bad as a gang initiation, more like a team member hazing.LOL!

BTW...I'm not refering to those who post contradicting viewpoint in a straight forward way. (johngaltnh is great example) Those make for good discussion. Not refering to the good natured razzing you may get either. (MP is top notch there)

Sometimes you just have to be ready to scrap and tell the smarty-asses and ali-asses to fuck off.

That's what it takes to be able to hang around the ter street corner.

PS

Here's MY GFE "rules"

me:
superclean, polite, respectful, charming, on time, full envelope plus, don't overstay my time, do anything I please that is pleasurable, use my condom when it's coital time.

her: gracious, glad to see mee, smiles, hugs, rubs, massages, kisses, flirts, licks, sucks, moans, pouts lips, whispers desire, breathes heavy, screams my name, convulses in orgasm, begs for more, lets me lick and touch everywhere I want, asks me to cim, (melts me) puts my condom on me when it's time, asks 'when can I see you again' (such a nice touch!)

no sphincter contact or swallowing required. (but if there is, and she is restrained during, then we have an ATF who gets lotsa gifts)

That's it. simple.


HalfHour

Most guys that hobby are rule breaker. So since most hobbyists are rule breakers, it stands to reason that most guys, who dislike rules to start with, see a list of rules they will get a little defensive. I do see what you where trying to do. You were trying to share what works for you. I to have a list of rule that I follow but they are much different than yours. They work for me, but likely they may not work for you. Since every guy is different no set of rules works for every client. I may add that because every lady and relationship is different the rules must flexible enough to adapt to the relationship and the lady while still keeping you and her emotionally safe. Just my .02$

Some of my girlfriends have been bitches and I for one desire in no way experiencing that or them again. GFE refers to how you feel during and afterward. Was it a hustle? was it just for the money or was it on a better level than that? Not that those are not bad experiences but not GFE. We all have experienced a jump and pump sometimes that is all we have time or energy for. Sometimes we can relax and truly enjoy the sex and the time. In my humble opinion it has nothing to do with if anal or swallowing or fisting or anything else was available. It simply is did that time spent transport you to a different place than just a transactional fuck. Just an Old Fat Fuck voicing his Bullshit.

Yet it was received so badly.  Perhaps I need to sprinkle rose petals around my posts.  That must be it.

i actually really enjoy catering to the bitter, jaded and cynical...and showing them that it really CAN be different. shake up their worldview a bit.

A lot of what Ziggy wrote, is more or less what one would find in a "Hobbying handbook" on many Hobbying sites, such as this one. I think that Ziggy used a few choice words/phrases and in trying to portray his best intentions, he ended up getting knocked around senseless by some of the patrons around here. I think that it is not a smart idea to phrase your topic as a rule of any sort per se, as previously stated, most peep who are in here are renegades against rules.

The beating this guy got is nothing. I have had people tell me I don't love my wife, call me a pimp, out an alias of mine, and call me all kinds of swear words. All by aliases, rarely if ever by anyone using their TER handle. But that is part of this boards appeal there is always someone poking fun at someone to poke at. But a thick skin is required as the timid are driven away.

Just joking, it is not what someone says it is the way they say it. I was nicer about it so no one raised a fuss.

That was special, and fucking hilarious too!