I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on something that happened to me today.

I have an appointment scheduled with a new provider, so I need to provide references.  I emailed a provider I've seen three different times, including a 90 minute appointment.  My most recent session with her was around three months ago.  So I've spent around $1,600 with her, including tips. I used her as a reference once since then, about a month ago, and she helped me with a positive response.

Since I haven't seen that many girls lately, I asked her to provide another reference today.  She refused, saying that I hadn't even thanked her with a gift card when she provided the last reference.  I let her know that, in addition to seeing her three times, I also wrote her first review on TER and responded to other members who messaged me to ask about her.  She now has 8+ references on TER, so obviously I was helpful to her.  

She wrote back that being helpful would mean I'd compensated her for the reference with a gift card.  That's what a gentleman would do.

She's obviously being short-sighted because I will never see her again.  But I'd also like to know if I'm completely out of the norm by not compensating providers who give references.  I always thought of it as a professional courtesy amongst the women to help each other.

Would be great to hear about others' experiences.

In all my years, I have never heard of such a thing. I repeat with ladies I have seen who have given me a reference and a gift card has never been discussed.

After she gave you the reference?  

She did you a favor, but you’re attitude seems to be, “I did her a bigger favor, so I don’t owe her anything”. A little bit short sighted and selfish.

Why not reply, “Sorry for the oversight, what kind of gift card would be appropriate.”  If it’s a simple $25 request, honor it. If she’s looking for some huge amount, ignore it.  Any other response beyond what you’ve already done will likely end with you on a black list.

Because I am not a kiss and tell person. I don’t want to deal with jealousy nor other people knowing who I’m seeing, what I’m spending for an hour or just being in my business. After all, last I checked this is a private and personal hobby. If you (provider) needs to know where I work, what’s my home address (photo copy a D.L.) or who I seen then you need to move on.  Besides, last I checked I don’t even know YOUR (providers) real name nor first thing about you. How do I trust you? What “safety” precautions or verification do we (hobbiest) have? We don’t. We have ZERO safety measures on our end. I have been robbed, ripped off and a victim of the “Death Threat” scam (try sleeping at night with this one).  

That’s why I’ll use a reference site like P411. Sure they can see my “Okay’s” but they can also use my “Okay’s” on P411 as my reference. Anyone that is established and/or reputable will be on verification sites such as P411 or Rs2k.  

If that’s no good enough for them than they can move on.  

Disclaimer:  Before any ladies get their panties in a bunch...  This is the way I operate and I am not telling anyone else that they should do what I do.  

Just my .02

SP

-- Modified on 12/14/2020 2:57:21 PM

-- Modified on 12/14/2020 2:59:52 PM

the will to starve to death.

 
Sadly, this is what this poor gal is experiencing.

 
Remuneration for a reference from a steady client?   Hoot Gibson!

are the one being short-sighted.  You haven't seen her for three months, asked her for a reference and she gave it, counting on the perfectly reasonable assumption that you would thank her with either another session with her, or some token gratuity like a gift card.  You already paid her for the services that she already provided to you.  You now want her to do something that you haven't paid for, which she did, and now you want her to do it again after you have already shown you will not be showing your gratitude in a tangible way.  That falls somewhere between naivete and jerkiness, depending on how well you know how this business works. I would love to hear your theory as to why you think she owes you anything after a three-month absence since the last session where you already received all of the services and time that you paid her for?  

 
Ref's are what makes it easy to book with new providers, and if you are not a regular, its just common sense that you need to compensate her for this kind of favor.  When I see indies (and I don't repeat that much with indies because many of them are when I'm traveling on business), I always tip them for the session, and then before I leave, I ask them if I could use them for a reference two times within 3 months and I hold out a $100 bill.  I have yet to have a provider refuse this proposition.  This way, I'm not going back in time too far, I always have my most recent two providers standing by to give me a reference, and she has been compensated in a advance for whatever time it takes to respond to the ref request.  I always keep my word and never ask for more then two refs from the same provider.  Occasionally, I will see some of them a second time if I return to their city, and repeat the offer for refs.  I would never presume that a provider owes me anything for which she has not been compensated unless she is dating me in real life.  That's just the way I roll.

No f’kin way I would see her again if it was one of my providers. Her tips were your repeat and if she can’t appreciate that, I’d be moving on to.  

That said, give P411 a try if you haven’t done so.

Paying for a reference is one of the stupidest, most inappropriate things I can imagine. I've never done it and I never would. In fact, until the OP's post I've never even heard of the practice.
At some point it does become too late to expect a reference from someone.  But not after three months. But never to pay her for it. This sounds similar to begging to pay for pussy.

I hope your are joking. Otherwise, you are a silly twit

A blatant negotiation disguised as a lesson in proper etiquette! LOL!

Lots of masochists that love that shit, I suppose. Yes, Mommy, I'll do whatever you say. It's all fantasy, and I'm not one to judge. It just wouldn't work on me.

References are good for the hooker community, it's not something they do for us,  it's something they do for each other.

 
Just like overstaying, can a guy overuse the good graces of a provider he asked for a reference in the past? Of course he can, but three visits, a great review and several good references provided by him for her she be more than enough to balance the scales for a second reference from her. Now if he had seen her once and asked for two or more references without a repeat session I could understand her point, but that is simply not the case here.

 
I think you have been listening to your stalkers call you a cheap ass trick for too long, it seems like you are trying to balance the scales by acting like a chump.

 
Now APOLOGIZE to the OP for your temporary insanity, and I expect an apology as well for forcing me to agree with someone I consider an idiot.

 
For the record, I also agree that if I were the OP I would NEVER visit that hooker ever again, and it would serve her right if he were to "name names" on his local board about what a bitch she was about this.

Can I get a $100 or a GC?

Stupidest thing I’ve ever heard CDL...

I will give a positive reference if I have seen a gent recently, unless your a life long regular of mine. I have never relied on a reference from any provider, especially ones I do not know personally. Your trusting a person you have never met hoping that their reference is golden. I have seen providers require compensation to provide a reference,  and to screen it is time consuming. Maybe she is mad you keep asking for a reference, but have not repeated...idk. If your on p411 many providers do not even verify okays given by providers. To each their own.

END OF MESSAGE

I've seldom asked for a reference maybe once or twice.  I do ask for P411 okays, because that is the price of them listing on P411.  I know in screening some providers will contact those on my okay list.  But that is between them.  I personally don't like asking for references because that is essentially asking them to send you to a competitor.  I do treat this like a business, and that is something I wouldn't do to a regular business person.

Some ladies have reference policies that they'll only give each client one reference or one per each visit she has with HER.

 
My opinion? Providers who genuinely want to help one another, keep each other safe, GIVE REFERENCES FREELY.    
I mean freely in both ways: both liberally and for free.

 
Funny story a client told me regarding references: he went to Vegas for a large convention and having never hobbied there, was looking forward to it.  Unfortunately, he didn't reach out in advance and was unable to get an appointment with any of the many ladies he contacted.    

So when he went again next year, he used the shotgun approach in advance.  He sent his request along with references to quite a few ladies.   After he returned, he saw his regular provider back home, who showed him the folder she'd created for all the reference-requests she'd received and answered!  There were dozens!    
She joked that if he ever did that again, she'd start charging him for it lol.  (and yes, she really was joking)

so for me, its a business transaction.  If I need someone to do something for me in a way that I can depend on it to be done correctly, PROMPTLY, and in my best interests, then I will pay.  If they fuck it up, I will never pay them again. If I only saw indies in SoCal, then I probably wouldn't do this, but most of my indies are when I'm on the road and I rarely repeat, so this has been working for me for 13 years, and if its not broken, I'm not going to try to fix it.  It is 100% effective for me.  Sometimes, I'm only in town overnight, and I want to see a provider after I take care of my business.  It does me no good for me to have a provider respond to a reference request in a few days.  I won't be there anymore.  

 
So I suggest that you do it the best way that always works for you, and I will do it the way the has always worked for me.  If anyone doesn't like the way I do it, they can go fuck themselves.  I'm not going to change something that works every time I need it to.  If fifty fucking bucks per reference to insure a fast, reliable and positive ref when I need it.  My time is too valuable to waste waiting for some hooker that owes me nothing to do me a free favor while I miss my window of opportunity in another city.  

 
Why is it you have no problem tipping a bartender $100 to make sure your glass stays full, but you have a problem with me paying $100 to the hooker to insure I have someone to fuck on the road when I want to?  You, of all people, should understand the power of greasing the wheels.  

In my 30+ years in the hobby, I never encountered a provider that expected to be compensated for a referral.  

If the provider had a policy, or at least let me know she was not comfortable providing a reference for me without a gift, I'd be fine with adhering with that policy.  But to hang me out to dry then try to hook me into a spiff retroactively is counter productive. She'll feel less willing to book me in the future, and I'll be less likely to book her as well, if at all.  

 
Absent a clear understanding in advance, if she thought the OP was taking advantage of her, she could have told him that, or at least told the other provider that he should contact her.  But effectively pissing in his corn flakes because she felt unappreciated is not a good way to retain clients.

 
Next, as was already pointed out; beyond the obvious resentment that "her" client would dare to book another provider, referrals are an important tool that providers can use to ensure improved safety. So there is (or should be) an implied reciprocal requirement for providers to help each other out with referrals.  

 
Now I'm a decent tipper... at least I have been in the last 10+ years since I can now afford to be so. But I don't tip my DoorDash driver when I end up using GrubHub.

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

I honestly don't see the issue with providing a reference for someone, more that once even.  Especially if you have seen her multiple times and tipped.  I guess people forget that one hand washes the other.  To ask for a gift card and try the ole reverse psychology method of reminding you what a "gentleman" would do is just ridiculous to me.  For that fear, and the fact that I don't hobby that frequently anymore, is the reasoning that I just use P411.  Agreed, I wouldn't bother spending my dime with that provider again.  

Is that providers that are fucking guys every day and higher volume mongers like me don't consider that seeing a provider every three months makes you a regular.  I can appreciate that a guy that pays for sex 6 times a year may call a girl he saw three of those times a regular.  Its a question of perspective.  He may consider himself a regular, but I doubt that she would.  Some of the indies I have PM'd with often have trouble remembering guys they saw two or three months ago, so how can they give a reference if they don't even remember the guy?  If she is averaging two customers a day five days a week, that's upwards of 100 guys ago, so why should she do you any favors rather than leave you on your own?  When I tell them I'm the guy that gave them a $100 dollars for two refs two months ago, and I need that ref within an hour when Hotlips, who I'm trying to see tonight,  contacts her, they deliver for me, because they remember the "photo ID" I used had a picture of Benjamin Franklin on it.   When you ask for a ref from a girl you saw three months ago, and she says, "Nick, who?, you'll understand my point.  

 
There are no "correct or incorrect" responses here.  There are things that work and things that don't work.  When an OP comes here to complain about something that didn't work, I'm happy to suggest things that have worked for me.  You may think its stupid, but if it works, who cares.  As another scholarly monger posted recently, "A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep."  When was the last time who say me start a thread complaining about something that didn't go right for me with a provider?  Hint . . . . . NEVER!!!

1) You're assuming girls rely only upon their memory of previous clients. But the best of them (and I can't say what the percentage is) keep good records so they can easily refresh their memories re the guys they've seen. I've never had a girl I was asking for a reference say, "Nick, who?"
2) While you are right that "there are things that work and things that don't work," I disagree that "There are no 'correct or incorrect' responses here." In your case that's somewhat true but you've been around this board FAR too long to say with a straight face you've never seen an incorrect response here. C'mon, man.
As far as your being incorrect in this thread, I do get that it works for you and you're fine with it. I have no problem with that. As for whether it's really necessary or not, you might want to consider that everyone else seems to disagree with you.  So there's that.

my thought to say I was just talking about the issue we are discussing in my post.  I agree there are plenty of incorrect responses on these boards in general, but they most often fall into the category of guys giving ADVICE on things they have not personally experienced and have no clue about.  If I have tried something that works for me, I am always willing to share it. It may not be to everyone's liking, as in this instance, but its hard to argue that something that works is an "incorrect" response.

Sometimes I think all the hate on the hobbyist community and TER is created by like 50 people who just post asshole things.  So next time you get your tighty whiteys in a bunch about it, ask yourself who those people are.  

"you should name her"  

"theres a saying...blah blah starving herself'

Calling everyone who does not subscribe to your 'Batshit Crazy Hooker' disrespectful attitudes a white knight.  God forbid they don't look down on us and treat us with respect.  

First, giving a reference is not included in the session price.  Some don't give references at all.  Some don't take them.  We are all different, for example I give them but I don't accept them because like another poster said - I don't trust someone I don't know with my safety.

He hasn't seen her in three months, got one reference and then asked for another.  And is bitching that in a financially crippling pandemic she wanted a gift card to pretty much secure a session with another provider.  HOW DARE SHE.

You are all aware of how covid has effected sex workers and this is not because she didn't budget or save properly - the Washington Post had an article last week on how tens of millions of Americans are over $5,000 behind on mortgages and rent and the fall out that will happen when the hold on evictions ends January 1st.

And just to show the other side - I never post or ask clients for a hand during this time, it's not my style.  But I was touched by the fact that several reached out to ask for my Venmo.  A few men of means took care of my rent for a few months.  Some sent small amounts.  I was in awe of both types and still am.  Were they white nights or just incredibly decent people?  

But you all keep bitching about how in the middle of this someone asked for a gift card for ensuring your sessions with another provider in 20220.   Not everyone was as fortunate as me.  

Again, some posters in this thread are the exact reason a lot of providers delist from TER - it's actually not the reviews.  It's that you make the client pool here look like women hating dangerous clients who are going to be a nightmare.   And don't start with the whole 'I dated an escort blah blah' or 'I don't have a problem with providers I see' because I am sure you don't act like keyboard warriors when you are with them.

Someone asked you for a gift card for a referral because the world is burning and she is providing a valuable service and you have to post about it?  How decent of you.

-- Modified on 12/15/2020 5:52:36 PM

I try to never think there can't be a new twist but  here we are  seriously charging for references,, I am just not believing this, what a twisted thought process...though i do believe you.  I always respond to those both Client and Companion who request a reference however I do tell Clients to notify me in advance because I vet those making the request before following up and there are quite a few Companions out there who will never get a response from me because of their previously lack of quid pro quo but I inform the Client in advance of this.  Should you use me as a reference without notifying me of the impending request its pot luck because I am not spending my time chasing you to get an okay for the response.  There are a few ladies I trust implicitly and I always fulfill their request without checking first but they can be counted on one hand  Of note though not everyone on 411 plays nice many do not respond when DMed or snidely say their Okay was sufficient, instead of just responding with GreatGuy or he can return anytime.  What goes around ......comes around!
Suzee

Completely agree

you're fooling anybody by using an alias that describes how you dress on the weekends?  It makes you look even more creepy.  The double post gave you away.  Bwahahahahaha

I have heard of providers charging for references. Not too many but I recall hearing about a few who do.
Each provider runs her business her way but quite frankly I think charging for a reference is kinda bs.
But a reference is a courtesy not a requirements so....to each her own.

I could see if you had seen her once or twice in a year but was using her for a reference multiple times a month over months and never saw her again. Perhaps I could see that kinda reaction.
Some ladies will only provide references for 3 months, 6 months,or up to a year.

Just had a gent use me several times for a reference had another request for him this week I saw him one time back in 2016!

Since this pandemic and our current economic climate.Not saying the OP is but there are some guys who feel like they want to waste time chatting,sending excessive pm/emails,and asking continuously for references and only saw the lady one time and keeps dangling the next appt request in the future in front of her to never  rebook but for JUST the sole purpose of using her as reference.

 Some do this because of the lady being used for a reference responds more promptly than the more current reference he could use.
Hence some ladies being used over and over again for a gent she saw many months or many years ago.  
Which is not too cool.
.(I know the OP mentioned 3 visits so I am not referring to him in the above ,
Many consider this free labour and in this current economy some are not really entertaining these messages and correspondence without compensation.

I used to ask for references and sometimes still do,Many ladies would respond positively.
But there was always quite the few times it was drama.  
Many of us have alternate methods of screening where reference is not required
Appreciate the ladies who have responded back to me through the years.

Just my long  .02 lol

-- Modified on 12/16/2020 6:37:48 PM

I guess I am a little confused. When you use sites like P411 we still know who you have seen and we still reach out to them. Its rarely as simple as 'Oh he has okay's he is good".

She’s an idiot for requesting payment for a reference but why didn’t you use the woman you saw most recently as a reference?