In one of the threads below there is a rather harsh attack on "White Knighters".   I'm interested to know what is everyone's definition of a "White Knight".   I'm not going to offer any options or opinions in advance, I'm interested in everyone else's.

p.s. Please don't attack me as a White Knight for the purposes of this thread.  You can save that for my other thread postings

from what I gather, to hobbyists, white knights are not necessarily a good thing, those guys who rush to a lady's defense, whether deserved in their minds or not.

However, if you are being attacked or misread, it's nice to have someone in your corner to help you communicate what it is you may be stumbling over.

Katie

"those guys who rush to a lady's defense, whether deserved in their minds or not. "

Just to add to this, there are WKs who immediately post fake good reviews when their favorite gets a mediocre or worse review. There are certain providers for whom you can almost count the seconds until a WK review appears.

--b.

-- Modified on 12/9/2007 8:45:24 AM

I would never have even figured that. I guess I don't read too deep into things or remember and cross reference things to notice stuff like that. I have said before that I am pretty dense so someone has to actually point something like this out to me before I would see it.

As for a white knight, I guess maybe some of the things I have said on the boards here might be considered white knightish (?), but for the most part I think many of the ladies here can handle themselves a crapload better than most guys here give them credit. I do like debating (arguing) so I might post something here or there to see if I can get one started. Whether it be on the side of a white knight or on the side of a crass person.

b-

modified for spelling since I know people get sooooooooooooooooo mad at bad spelling.




-- Modified on 12/9/2007 12:04:25 AM

Women are ALWAYS right!

Remember that and there is no need for White Knights.

Giggle,
TS Jamie

A "white knight" is seen as someone who will always defend a provider right or wrong.  But what about those who always defend hobbyists right or wrong?  I don't think there's a derogatory term for them.

The hobby has an informal set of boundaries that can be inferred by reading posts over time.  They are comprised of expected behaviors on parts of both hobbyists and providers.  They're always up for debate but  for the most part we are adhere to some basics or the hobby wouldn't function: timeliness, hygiene, having the proper donation, delivering services, etc.,  However, both parties frequently step over the line or push the "limits."

I've disagreed with providers and hobbyists on this board.  I've never been called a white knight, but have been called a "metro sexual" [I tried to get him to be honest and call me a "fag" outright but he was too chickenshit].  

People are often one-sided and fail to see, or admit, when they're wrong because they feel their egos are at stake.   I think the WK term is used as a sort of billy club to shut down  rational discussion.  Some guys go too far and defend providers at all costs.  Some go too far in the other direction.  I prefer to deal with what people actually say, than to label them.

On a variety of boards I've been called a white knight, a shill(sp?), a kiss-ass and suck-up for defending ladies, agencies and other posters. Do I care? No, not really.
All we have here on the internet are our words. With the exception of clients and providers who may have seen each other none of us really knows anything about anyone else here on the board beyond our postings. I come here to engage in intelligent discussion about a something I enjoy doing. My hope is for interesting discourse among a group of people who participate in the hobby, not mindless flaming.

If someone disagrees my words that's fine but don't simply dismiss them by calling me names and putting the post into some sort of "this doesn't count" category. Try presenting a cohesive counterpoint to my post, rather than a flame.

There is a pretty fair amount of unfair finger-pointing on the internet to begin with. Anonymity and ignorance are a major reason for this.

They go to Rutgers

Anyone who says anything positive to or about a lady that the accuser disagrees with.

But I know it when I see it.

Basically they are perpetual ass kissers. You seem them at work and other places in life. They think that blowing sunshine up the persons ass at all costs will put them in a favorable light with that person. It usually doesn't work, people generally don't respect suck ups.

Having been the target of "cyber lynch mobs" is one reason I post very few reviews. Exceptions being total rip-offs, etc.

I will, however, respond to ISOs in an honest manner.

Folks always stress YMMV, but as stated above, certain things go with the turf. Timeliness, hygiene and correct rates.

I have total disdain for the whole "White Knight" mentality. I guess a good synonym for "White Knight" would be "suckup".

There is an undercurrent here and on many of the local boards of hobbyist that want to curry favor with the providers so badly, that they fall all over themselves trying to flatter, admire, basically kiss the ass of every provide out there. Let a provider get even the slightest critcism and the White Knighters will rise up, en masse to defend them.

Now there is a fine line between having a set of stones and being a misogynistic asshole, but if you can't make a valid criticism of an escort on a site like TER without incurring the collective wrath of these do-gooders, we've got a  serious case of the tail wagging the dog.

Guys, the ladies are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves, most of the quality ladies I know are embarrassed when their legions come out to fight thier battles. I don't know if the whight knighters actually expect to curry favor this way or if they're just gutless wonders who just like to suck up to women because they're used to it.

There, I've said it...Let the flaming begin.

It was your post that caused me to wonder, but I didn't intend it as a criticism of your position.  I have no problem with your posts in general.

I suppose my main issue with this, and I'm not even sure if it matters, is the difference between agreeing with a provider's position, and "coming to their defense".  Sometimes it seems like the exact opposite of what you say is true...if you say that you agree with the provider's POV then you get slammed for taking their side or what have you.   I think everyone should have the right to disagree, but also the right to agree, and to express such opinions equally.  That doesn't necessarily mean that the person who agrees is a "White Knight".  Personally I try to stay away from the "us vs them" mentality when it comes to the hobby anyway.

in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

b-

Choosing not to be adversarial either in the hobby or on this board should not automatically make one a "white knight".

I changed my ways so much after that.

That someone even called me a "white knight."

You make a good point of being not adversarial.

Thats great, especially during the holiday season.


-- Modified on 12/9/2007 1:09:18 PM

he posts I may agree with him or just take a "pass".  Same goes for the ladies.  Many of our lady posters are very classy individuals besides being extremely attractive.  These ladies deserve our utmost respec.

Likewise, if a post is significantly different from my opinion, I will step up and say so.

I'm not certain about the "drama-filled debate," but as a relative newcomer, I have found the posts on this thread very helpful, and I feel thankful for those who contributed to it. Perhaps, it's just a delayed response held over from Thanksgiving, since I was too sick over the holiday to be thankful for much of anything, but I don't think so.

I expected there to be more drama within the debate due to the subject matter.  I'm pleased that it's been rather civil all around.

I think that with some of the ego- posting, people won't back down because of the internet screen and handle/alias/studly board persona to hide behind. The urge to call someone a white knight in order to dismiss someone (whether rational or not) is pretty strong. Either way, it's all just an ad hominem attack, which means you really have no argument...

Katie

I don't necessarily hate white knights, but I do hate the white knight mentality. It's also hard to discern from a single post, who's a white knight and who is just sticking up for a friend, or for something they truly believe.

I don't like suck ups, but there is nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe. What I don't like is when a hobbyist or group of hobbyists is constantly kissing up up to providers, either to curry favor or just to appear like one of the "good guys", without regard to whether she has a legitmate POV or not.

It's hard to balance having a spine vs. being an asshole, or conversely having compassion vs. being a suck up.

I guess it's a matter of degree. I know this doesn't answer your question, but it's the best I can do

And really don't see why it's a problem.  I see Gambler's point if the white knighting is done as kiss ass for the sole purpose of kissing up to the lady.

But I always object to just plain mean posts for the sake of flaming or being an asshole- my white knighting in these instances is simply to counter the assholes on the boards and make known the presence of those of us who don't appreciate it.

I have found that I have mistakenly defended a gal when the later facts and history show her to be a drama queen.  Comes with inexperience and we all live and learn.  I'm learning to butt in less and let the gals deal with it, but will still object to all out un-necessary mean-ness.

-- Modified on 12/10/2007 6:07:41 PM

How's you trip going? Are you back, or are you just squeezing in a little time for your friends?

Either way, nice to hear from you.

Yes, I'm back- trip was wonderful- 11 days away from email, cell phones and Atlanta Board Drama!

But it is good to be back and "talking" to non-drama friends!

There was a lot of drama between providers and the hobbyists there.

Although people characterize you as a "white knight", I think you bring a lot of stability to that board.

White knight huh? I'm sorta a prick, sounds like they need me around here. hah.

-m

I have to agree with GAGambler, there are those who immediately jump to the provider' defense regardless of the circumstances.

but I have no problem with nice people, standing up for other nice people.

GoldenBear certainly qualifies as "nice people"