Emru Townsend: The book hints at something of a caste system in the sex-for-sale industry; do you think the different kinds of artifice--for instance, that of the opening scene versus a stripper's broadcast "come hither"--help define it?

Tracy Quan: A call girl's most significant artifice might be her ability to "pass" in polite society--as a girlfriend of mine put it the other day. That is, when a call girl goes on a date to see a client at a hotel, when she's working, she blends in. Whereas other sex workers may be more blatant.

The less visible you are, the higher your rank on the sex industry ladder--from a call girl's point of view. But that's not how strippers see it. Many strippers feel that rank is defined by how much physical contact you have with customers--the less contact, the higher your status. So, here you've got this Less Is More aesthetic applied in different ways.

You've described how people outside the business have reacted to your demystifying the trade. Have you received any feedback from other working girls?

Yes. Most of my readers in the sex trade say that they recognize the double life, the emotional dilemmas --and the highly developed narcissism--of my prostitute characters. I did not want to sugarcoat that aspect of the prostitute personality. Successful hookers are incredibly narcissistic.

Nancy is a character who, even when she's suffering emotionally, wants to minimize redness, so she always weeps into a moisturized tissue. This doesn't mean her feelings are less deeply felt, mind you. The wheels of her mind are turning even while her emotions are getting the better of her. In other words, she's a complex, vain girl who can walk and chew gum at the same time--and many sex workers recognize that in themselves and in their colleagues.

the link to the whole interview is below.....

otherwise I definitely would have been interested.  Damn, but intelligent women can be sexy!

I plan to get this book.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Characterised by a pervasive pattern of grandiosity and self-importance, need for admiration, and lack of empathy, people with narcissistic personality disorder overestimate their abilities and inflate their accomplishments, often appearing boastful and pretentious, whilst correspondingly underestimating and devaluing the achievements and accomplishments of others.

Often the narcissist will fraudulently claim to have qualifications or experience or affiliations or associations which they don't have or aren't entitled to. Belief in superiority, inflating their self-esteem to match that of senior or important people with whom they associate or identify, insisting on having the "top" professionals or being affiliated with the "best" institutions, but criticising the same people who disappoint them are also common features of narcissistic personality disorder.

When rejected, the narcissist will often denounce the profession which has rejected them (usually for lack of competence or misdeed) but simultaneously and paradoxically represent themselves as belonging to the profession they are vilifying.

Fragile self-esteem, a need for constant attention and admiration, fishing for compliments (often with great charm), an expectation of superior entitlement, expecting others to defer to them, and a lack of sensitivity especially when others do not react in the expected manner, are also hallmarks of the disorder. Greed, expecting to receive before and above the needs of others, overworking those around them, and forming romantic (sic) or sexual relationships for the purpose of advancing their purpose or career, abusing special privileges and squandering extra resources also feature.

People with narcissistic personality disorder also have difficulty recognizing the needs and feelings of others, and are dismissive, contemptuous and impatient when others share or discuss their concerns or problems. They are also oblivious to the hurtfulness of their behaviour or remarks, show an emotional coldness and a lack of reciprocal interest, exhibit envy (especially when others are accorded recognition), have an arrogant, disdainful and patronizing attitude, and are quick to blame and criticise others when their needs and expectations are not met.

The DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder are:

A. A pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, lack of empathy, as indicated by at least five of:

1. a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, ie unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, ie takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes

about some of the people in this business (I must have forgotten this from freshman psych). I've been at my wit's end trying to understand some things, and have even been questioning my own ethics. I can't tell you how much this helps me. If you have any reading suggestions, I would appreciate them. I have plenty of my own flaws, and I'll be on the lookout for descriptions of me in my reading, as well.  Thank you very much.

-- Modified on 2/9/2003 4:10:40 PM

could be described as NPD, or just sort of making a joke?  Sex with true narcissists doesn't float my boat.  Sort of a  moot point regarding her, since she is apparently no longer "working".

in her book she states that she is a great believer in psychotherapy. She strongly feels that providers need therapy as much as they need good hairstylists. She finds that those who participate and do not get therapy are "like people who cut their own hair"...

IMHO... these "antisocial personality disorder" guys are who inflict the majority of the damage on our beloved providers, bringing the whole experience down for the rest of us. The hobby attracts this type, but please, ladies, most of us aren't.
The few that are do disproportionate damage....................................



"Guggenbuhl-Craig: The Psychopath is much more successful than you and I because he is not hemmed in by all sorts of impediments or worries.

Hillman: But we fail to recognise it…. So it would perhaps be more useful in our lives if we could spot one when we see one?

Guggenbuhl-Craig: Yes and you can maybe spot one if you know what a psychopath is, if you know that all of a sudden the other man or the other woman is marvelously tuned into you. He's just your kind of guy and he's just what you expect…. Then you can become very suspicious.

Psychopaths Are Expert Con Men

The above excerpt is a good examples of the personality profile of the abuser and/or psychopath, and the way we often lie to ourselves when we get into a relationship with a person who seems "too good to be true." When entering romantic relationships with people who make us question "can this really be happening to me?", most often than not the faerie tale ends in complete disillusion because one is dealing with what Dr. Robert Hare calls "love thieves." Quite simply, these men (or women), are con artists, or psychopaths. Not only are they emotionally abusive, but some can be physically dangerous. I personally know of a young lady who married a psychopath from the internet who attempted to strangle her to death.

In most cases, if we had only listened to our instincts or recognised a few red flags, we could have walked away from such abusive, controlling individuals. Of course, I am not denigrating anyone who has been conned, because even the experts, Dr. Hare included, have been taken in by such people. I have also been taken in several times, and even once or twice by what I refer to as the "religious" variety.

One of these instincts I mentioned is often referred to as The Gift of Fear, that particular intuition that can keep us safe from dangerous people. If someone is sending you mixed messages, and your instincts tell you this is the case, it's probably true.

Someone I knew who was well acqainted with psychopaths within Christianity told me, "There's an old saying I go by when dealing with a possible psychopath using the guise of religion to fool people: Beware of a man who makes your heart go 'twang.'" The classic psychopath comes across as very romantic, charming, and wants to seal the relationship as soon as possible. It happens this way almost every time. Psychopaths move fast. They are impatient, undependable, and many have an undue obsession with "not wasting any time." This should always be the first red flag in any relationship.

The following, from A Woman's Guide to Emotional Abuse sounds like it could have been written with psychopaths in mind:

"The abuse will begin subtly. Things an abuser will do in the early stages of a relationship may even seem flattering, but they are red flags. Anytime a man seems too good to be true he probably is. It may seem flattering to suddenly get a whole lot of attention from someone, but he may be pouring on the attention because he has a deep need to get you hooked as quickly as possible.

Abusers usually suffer from intense feelings of inadequacy and insecurity, and this causes them to move in on women quickly and forcefully. People with serious insecurities are fearful of losing control of their environment. Abusers are fearful, insecure men and they need to control you to feel safe."

However, just because a man is fearful of not being in control, does not mean he is loving. Many partners of psychopaths often mistake the psychopath's ability to behave lovingly as proof that he or she is a loving person. But this is not the case. Psychopaths are not capable of love or true affection. My interpretation of this is that the fear is actually a deep-seated anxiety about losing power and control.

Sally Caldwell, a sociologist at Southwest Texas State University and author of “Romantic Deception: The Six Signs He’s Lying" (says):

“We’re also taught to be polite, so we’re afraid to challenge someone’s words for fear of appearing rude. And we need those tendencies for society to function, or else we’d be a nation of paranoid people. But slow down and take a lot of time before granting your complete trust to a potential partner. Romantic liars try to speed the pace of a relationship so that it becomes intense very quickly.”

“People who con others are generally psychopaths,” says Brent Turvey, forensic scientist and criminal profiler at the Academy of Behavioral Profiling in Sitka, Alaska, and author of the just released second edition of “Criminal Profiling: An Introduction to Behavioral Evidence Analysis.” Turvey adds: “Con artists look for people who have low self-esteem and exploit that. They are parasitic and live off of others’ goodwill. . .Con artists and other psychopaths spend a lot of time talking about themselves in a self-aggrandizing fashion — bragging about their larger-than-life accomplishments and grand schemes, which are often completely fabricated,” Turvey notes. “Also, watch out for people who constantly need to borrow money — they always have a sob story, or they’ve ‘forgotten their wallets.’

So, besides these personality characteristics, can these people be identified? Dr. Hare, among others, have written about this "psychopathic" stare, for one. It has also been written that psychopaths often use a lot of "stage props," that is colourful, animated body language. They are often the most charismatic, utterly bewitching people you will ever meet, although from my experience, and there are some professionals who agree with me here, not all psychopaths are that animated. Some, in fact, have very "flat" unemotional voices and unexpressive cold features and eyes, what is referred to as a flat emotional affect.

Psychopaths primarily work their way by lying. Being lied to, deceived, and used by a psychopath is one of the worst experiences one can experience, especially if you have fallen in love with the individual. I know several people, close friends, who have met and married such people from the internet, others have only met and fallen in love with them, only to be later discarded. Most of these victims (or targets) soon find out that a relationship with a psychopath is impossible. The psychopath lets his true personality come out after he tires of you or has no more need of you or feels the need to show you he is just playing a game. This is always the first realisation that you’ve been dealing with a psychopath.

Most victims become discarded when he or she no longer serves the whims of the psychopath. You may believe more psychopaths to be stalkers, but this really isn't the case. Since psychopaths have no emotional attachments to anyone, being in contact with an ex has no signifance for them."

The difference here is in The DSM IV, Sociopath and Psychopath are two very different things. A text-book Personality Disorder usually describes a Sociopath....I would venture to say many in this "Hobby", on BOTH sides, fit this definition....Few fit the True definition of a Psychopath....Would you not agree...? The reason I'm interjecting this is that, my Masters Thesis was on Sociopaths...while Sociopaths are void of empathy and a general pain in the back-side, unless they also show Psychopathic tendancies, the are usually not a physical danger. Peace, Robyn

'They have a false sense of entitlement and act as though they have more money, background, education than they truly do. Basically, once anyone gets caught in this realm of thinking they stop growing.'

Sad but true I too try hard to avoid people like this, can see it, smell it, a mile away..I see in all the time where I live..just not worth my time, dont have the patience to stoop to that mentality. They posess no character or class, and have to rely on false merit to make themselves seem above it all. Some may be fooled by their facade but through experiance and living in L.A., I know better. I just shake my head and pity them.

'Would much rather be in tune with myself and others than caught up in that grandiosity of thinking'

And thats why the guys love you!  

This book sounds very interesting...Ill definately be reading it soon.


-- Modified on 2/9/2003 5:44:26 PM

she's kinda cute, but you really went there for therapy?  Do you throw caution to the wind or seek another therapist?

Neurotics build castles in the sky, psychotics move in and psychologists collect the rent!

HPG

Funny, the parts I noticed in the DSM quote weren't those that most people seem to be harping on, of how a call girl might be Narcissistic. I noticed that Narcissists ...

"...overestimate their abilities and inflate their accomplishments, often appearing boastful and pretentious ...

Often the narcissist will fraudulently claim to have qualifications or experience or affiliations or associations which they don't have or aren't entitled to."

Like, maybe, a book author would claim during a lecture tour ...

It is notorious that a lay person reading a medical text will find that (s)he has most of the symptoms of most of the disorders described in that text.  

By all means read and broaden your general understanding, but BEWARE OF SELF-DIAGNOSIS.  If you think you might have a problem find a competent professional to discuss it with.

Unfortunately, the prevalence of this kind of behavior is more and more taught. Grade inflation and social promotion in public schools are just several symptoms of this sickness.

Another example: LeBron James, who is well on his way to becoming another Allen Iverson.

and abusive of the therapeutic relationship. Why are you there ?
You may be using seducuction as a way of avoiding real issues.

you can have less intense sociopathic tendencies in many cases, where the individual appears well adapted to his social milieu, often charming successful business types with a reputation for doing whatever it takes, and on the other extreme you can have full on psychopaths, those who in no way, shape, or form can operate within law abiding society.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition, Revised (American Psychiatric Association, 1987, pp. 373-374), for research purposes, described Self-defeating Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of self-defeating behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts. The person may often avoid or undermine pleasurable experiences, be drawn to situations or relationships in which he or she will suffer, and prevent others from helping him or her, as indicated by at least five of the following:

chooses people and situations that lead to disappointment, failure, or mistreatment even when better options are clearly available;

rejects or renders ineffective the attempts of others to help him of her;

following positive personal events (e.g., new achievement), responds with depression, guilt, or a behavior that produces pain ( e.g., an accident);

incites angry or rejecting responses from others and then feels hurt, defeated, or humiliated (e.g., makes fun of spouse in public, provoking an angry retort, then feels devastated);

rejects opportunities for pleasure, or is reluctant to acknowledge enjoying himself or herself (despite having adequate social skills and the capacity for pleasure);

fails to accomplish tasks crucial to his or her personal objectives despite demonstrated ability to do so, e.g., helps fellow students write papers , but is unable to write his or her own;

is uninterested in or rejects people who consistently treat him or her well, e.g., is unattracted to caring sexual partners;

engages in excessive self-sacrifice that is unsolicited by the intended recipients of the sacrifice;
The behaviors do not occur exclusively in response to, or in anticipation of , being physically, sexually, or psychologically abused.

The behaviors do not occur only when the person is depressed.

The Dimensional Perspective
Here is a hypothetical profile, in terms of the five-factor model of personality, for Masochistic Personality Disorder (speculatively constructed from McCrae, 1994, pg. 306):




High Neuroticism
Chronic negative affects, including anxiety, fearfulness, tension, irritability, anger, dejection, hopelessness, guilt, shame; difficulty in inhibiting impulses: for example, to eat, drink, or spend money; irrational beliefs: for example, unrealistic expectations, perfectionistic demands on self, unwarranted pessimism; unfounded somatic concerns; helplessness and dependence on others for emotional support and decision making.


High Extraversion
Excessive talking, leading to inappropriate self-disclosure and social friction; inability to spend time alone; attention seeking and overly dramatic expression of emotions; reckless excitement seeking; inappropriate attempts to dominate and control others.


Low Openness
Difficulty adapting to social or personal change; low tolerance or understanding of different points of view or lifestyles; emotional blandness and inability to understand and verbalize own feelings; alexythymia; constricted range of interests; insensitivity to art and beauty; excessive conformity to authority.


High Agreeableness
Gullibility: indiscriminate trust of others; excessive candor and generosity, to detriment of self-interest; inability to stand up to others and fight back; easily taken advantage of.


High Conscientiousness
Overachievement: workaholic absorption in job or cause to the exclusion of family, social, and personal interests; compulsiveness, including excessive cleanliness, tidiness, and attention to detail; rigid self-discipline and an inability to set tasks aside and relax; lack of spontaneity; overscrupulousness in moral behavior.




The Behavior Perspective

Motivations
Suffers from a need to be accepted and loved. Because of this need, personal relationships are more important than one's own independent thinking (Roazen, 398).
Wants to be loved, to express his or her feelings for others, to be needed and appreciated, to coerce others into responding to him, to vindicate his claims about himself (Riso, ch. 4).

Behaviors
Taking the way of submission, shrinking from or flowing round difficulty and violence rather than fronting up to it (French, 43).
Believing that real love "is blind devotion, unquestioning self-humiliation, utter submission, trust and belief against yourself and against the whole world giving up your whole heart and soul to the smiter" (Dickens qtd. in French, 47).

Average: Emotionally demonstrative, gushy, friendly, full of good intentions about everything. Gets overly intimate, enveloping, and possessive: the self-sacrificial, mothering person who cannot do enough for others. Self-important: feels he or she is indispensable, but overrates his efforts in others' behalf. Overbearing, patronizing.

Unhealthy: Can be manipulative and self-serving, instilling guilt, putting others in his debt. Self-deceptive about his own motives and behavior. Domineering and coercive: feels entitled to get anything he wants from others. The "victim and martyr": feels abused, bitterly resentful and angry, resulting in hypochondria and psychosomatic problems (Riso, ch. 4).

Insensible to the greater themes of the human imagination--religion, science, politics, art (Santayana, 166).

slightly paranoid. The paranoia is strictly work-related, though. Besides, it isn't paranoia if they really are out to get you, is it?  {grin}

-- Modified on 2/10/2003 2:24:45 PM

You're right, but maybe that's the point!

SLS

(Sly Little Snicker)