I've been seeing a GOOD provider for a 4+ years regularly, I'm looking for more than the wham bam thank you ma'am experience. If she did not call me all the time, I would be history i.e. gone.

I've just realized something very important, if I can get both my emotional and physical needs met, without the drama of an actual relationship then I'm in heaven. I've found another provider who fulfills this need, actually I've known her for many years, but have not seen her regularly.

I like a good zipless fuck every once in a while but I'm mostly partial to ladies who are able to establish a relationship of sorts. I'm not one of those needy guys who has to text or talk every day, but I'm mostly interested in spending as much time with people I care about and who care about me as I can.

After all, life is terminal. Better live like we're dying.

I feel the same way and I too look for ladies who like to connect more than just hit it and forget it.

It seems a bit oxymonornic, but perhaps you are on to something.

I think it might be clearer to say that you have a relationship, but that the relationship is of a type that precludes (hopefully) the drama that often comes with more conventional civie relationships.

More and more I think the hobby might be a model for what a utopan society might be like.

On the one hand, despite the naysayers who try to reduce our interactions to a set of rules like a sport, there really are no rules or categories that govern. Each interaction is unique. Anything can and does happen.

On the other hand, many fine providers know very well that their success depends on satisfaction of emotional needs as well as physical needs. This often involves the careful massaging of egos through lots of off-the-clock time spent on the phone, emailing, and texting, as well as going out on the town with us. When we engage these ladies as a regular, we are paying for these additional emotional satisfaction services.

You all describe the relationships that I look for, but I have time management issues and sometimes emails and phone calls go unanswered for days. It isn't because I don't care. It's just I get lost in the pile of things to do. I guess I should be grateful for having too many suitors at times. LOL

I realized that I could keep my sanity best if I chose to be the kind of lady you describe. It's just soooo nice to know there are so many gentlemen who feel as I do.

I rarely text, but it begins to sound like fun the way you describe it, as if we could flirt off and on during the day. That sounds nice.

“I've been seeing a GOOD provider for a 4+ years regularly, I'm looking for more than the wham bam thank you ma'am experience. If she did not call me all the time, I would be history i.e. gone”

As much as I prefer to not, automatically, introduce cynicism into provider/client interactions as these  *can* potentially, take many different paths depending on lots of individual variables, your statement that your “GOOD” provider “calls you all the time” and, if she did not, you would be history---gone, seems quite an....umm....demanding, and unrealistic expectation.

And, I’m pretty far left on this sort of thing.

What you’re describing REALLY IS the kind of thing one might expect from an SO, in REAL life. That’s not to say one cannot engage very genuinely with someone beyond a “wham-bam-thank you-Ma’am” context in a P4P arrangement. Absolutely possible.

But, expecting that a provider call you all the time to ensure your emotional needs are being met is getting pretty far outside the scope of what makes a “GOOD” provider.

a person, though it's professional relationship. The type, frequency and length of that caring is what needs to be negotiated. I repeat with a few ladies, where we communicate caring, but don't overstep the line.

Taking into account the financial aspect, of course.
I've found that the best relationships with respect to this hobby do fulfill both some emotional and physical needs, even if the emotional needs are simply a drama-free connection that is one of friendship.

to as the GFE experience.  I "forgot it was a service" many times.

its truly NOT her place to CALL YOU. Its beyond needy on your part. Its very unprofessional and should not be expected on her part.
I too have clients I can freely call email see whats up with them, theres a friendship there that goes beyond this P4P enviornment. We have become real world friends and there is genuine affection on both sides, but its not a call reassure them of how I feel about them, it's just cuz as friends I care about them.
Sounds like she is keeping the hook in. you are her big fish, always good to have a few of these but you have to ask yourself, is she baiting you? Stringing you along because as a client you are reliable safe and an easy call for her.
I strongly disagree with the *need* for reassuance on this level.

I just love a good gfe phsyical and emotional connection!

And I do have a couple of regulars that I email and text with outside of meetings, but somehow we communicate outside of a meeting in a non threatening way.  Then I have others who will become clingy after one meeting and that kind of scares me.

Not sure how to explain it....but it's a fine line and I'm glad to know some of you gents feel the same way!

I do get many phone calls to chat and see what I am up to. Sometimes they just need a friendly ear to listen without judgement or advice. I myself would never call them to share my problems though. I do not want any man to feel obligated to see me.

Kisses Haley

you are opening a pandora's box of neediness and boundary violations, confusion, expectations and ultimately, disappointment.

The hobby is not a matchmaking service.

If you want to talk about having emotionally *satisfying* "relationships" with favorite providers, I'm with you. It is almost impossible to spend frequent time having sex with someone you genuinely like without there being a satisfying and enjoyable emotional aspect to it.

But always remember that the whole hobby dynamic is a fantasy. In the "real" world, somebody has to take out the trash, do the laundry, pay the bills, solve day to day problems. In the "real" world there are expectations and relationship dynamics.

The hobby is not "real life". It is a special place where two people can be and in fact *want* to be their best for each other for a slice of time. Even if it is a regular slice of time.

The hobby is a delightful place to visit but nobody gets to live there.

yes absolutely!

Nuf said!

It is well known that I am a connection-oriented hobbyist who tends to repeat. I even have a couple of friends who happen to be providers.

But let's be realistic here.

A few threads down you will see a couple of VERY intelligent and highly rated providers stressing the fact that they are ACTRESSES providing an ILLUSION.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that having emotional needs met through illusion is NOT a prescription for sound psychological health as it requires substantial self-deception.

There is no such thing as a free lunch on this planet. You want a woman to meet your emotional needs? It isn't called "hobby" -- it's called "relationship." Complete with commitment and all the rest.

I am NOT saying that the hobby can't be an enjoyable activity; just that if you think you are going to have your cake and eat it too by having a provider act as though she is your S.O. without all the drama -- including constant contact -- you are cruisin for a bruisin.

And, let me add, PAYING for emotional support is really really really unwise.

think of the relationship between patient and psychologist/psychiatrist.  Meeting the patient's emotional needs in the context of a professional relationship.

I feel there IS a real relationship with my Favorite Ladies (only 2) & real caring friendship.  
They have been there for me when I was hospitalized with a nasty infection & their support meant a lot.
With the recent flooding in our region I could not help but be concerned for ATF as her home is vunerable to flooding...  Indeed she did have danger but efforts by friends & family in constructing a levie & pumping were successful.  After a brief conversation, we've exchanged e-mails & pictures.  
I'm still recovering myself from 2 days & one night of constant pumping water...  I am still exhausted but
A)  I was successful so minimal losses
B)  Others, even friends & family, lost a great deal  
Yes, ATF & I have a friends with benifits relationship.  Part of her benifit is always a  donation...  but we often share a light meal, snack, beverage, or the gift of her skills from her day job totally uncompensated & outside the hobby time.  I occasionally gift to her as well.  
When we meet, it is a meeting of friends & we build from there...  if this is my emotional need I'm satisfied with it.
skb

i have no interest in men looking for a "wham bam" either. my approach is definitely much more holistic, in that i seek to fulfill to some degree a man's emotional, mental as well as physical needs. the depth and complexity of course depends on my relationship with a particular man, but it is always there to some extent. to everyone i see, i humbly offer my true self.

"This often involves the careful massaging of egos through lots of off-the-clock time spent on the phone, emailing, and texting, as well as going out on the town with us. When we engage these ladies as a regular, we are paying for these additional emotional satisfaction services. "

Sorry but with a huge % of us you are paying for the time spent with us and not countless emails and off the clock time etc. If you have met with a few ladies that are willing to play into this situation, I suggest you stick with them as they are a rare breed. I give my regulars some special consideration but nothing near what you expect.

None of my regulars expect this and if they did, they would not be regulars and I do very, very well.

If, during the time contracted for, I can do both I will happily. With faves I will extend to maybe a couple of emails or text messages being more of a friend so to speak, but having a client constantly emailing and text messaging...no. That for me is crossing too many boundaries and I cut them loose.

I mean beside the obvious, many clients like to open up and chat...I like that and if I fulfill something they are not getting, then great, but keep it during the time paid for.

... my reference above is not really referring to the minority of the hobby that operates like you and I. Rather, it is aimed at the overwhelming preponderance of the hobby which is oriented toward satisfaction of just the physical; involving men getting physical needs met by women who openly declare that they are actresses providing an illusion.

There is nothing wrong with that -- it just isn't our cup of tea.

And in THAT context, for a man to try to address emotional needs through a paid actress providing an illusion would be, IMO, foolhardy in the extreme.

There is room in the hobby for practically anything. We are all adults and we can negotiate our own rules and boundaries behind closed doors.

But beyond that -- if a hobbyist DOES desire to deal with the intellectual, emotional and even spiritual through the hobby; it would be in his enlightened self-interest to exercise a level of care and screening in selecting a provider that emphasizes the woman's non-physical traits -- such as character. Failure to do so will lead to disappointment at best.

For what you provide; I bet your screening involves a helluva lot more than name, employment and two references. You look at the man's emotional and psychological composition, etc. A lady who needs to see 12 guys a week in order to pay the mortgage doesn't have that luxury.

that sounds too clingy

I will never, ever call  you..
but, love the relationship. you are my lover, friend etc. when I see you but, will never make demands.

I have had a few that want more.. it is a fine line between lovers and friends.. good luck..

Not because I dont want more but because it is the way it is.

I have even stopped seeing two that it just felt like more and I would not compromise myself or them for something that we both wanted but could never happen..

You posts was "aimed at the overwhelming preponderance of the hobby which is oriented toward satisfaction of just the physical."

Really.

First of all, you are referring to something I posted below, so I am approaching it personally.

Second, we are in a P4P arena. Anyone who is under the impression that this hobby is "real" life and doesn’t have an element of illusion should leave right away! Seriously, even some of the ladies who declare they want real life emotional ties to P4P friends are kidding you all or have poor supportive networks in "real" life, which is not healthy in the long run.

Please do not use my post below to imply I was saying I was in any way a paid actress. Though there would be nothing wrong with that in this industry. But I am ME. Anyone who has met me knows how genuine I am, so please don't twist my words.

However, I am saying there is some illusion to the hobby. The perfect smile and complete happiness I bring to a date filled with candles, oils, time to talk about YOU can be an illusion. My life is not perfect. I've almost be killed in a car accident before a session. I have real life family issues, deal with personal relationship problems, etc. that I cannot bring to a session if I want to offer a stellar experience. So I act that everything is perfect. Damn right I am going to create an illusion so that the experience is the best I can offer to ensure my gentlemen friends’ needs (physical and emotional) are met. And there is nothing wrong with that and doesn't mean I'm some paid actress who can only offer a hobby experience that is "oriented toward satisfaction of just the physical." Come on now…

Look, we all have those clients we care about. Or at least many ladies I know do. We connect during the session, emotionally and physically, and even keep up emails in between meetings. But let's be real here, we are in a P4P arena. If I wasn't giving “it” up, most of my friends would not be my friends...even if they are gents who also seek an emotional connection. If the ladies on this board weren’t giving “it” up, you gents would not be here. We are sex workers on a prostitute/john board. Please keep that in mind. There's nothing wrong with living in reality.

Personally, the men who seek out my companionship typically do for more than just the physical. There's a reason why I'm completely clothed in all of my photos and I don't post pussy shots. But just because I can publicly admit there is some illusion to a date doesn't mean we aren't still talking about the hobby oriented towards an emotional connection.

And John, I'm sorry but just because a provider posts publicly that she is after the emotional connection doesn't mean she is. I don't know lilli or her intentions when posting here, and perhaps her screening does entail lots more than some providers. But who knows...she just might be posting for marketing purposes. (Shrugs shoulders...)

Xoxo.

I think you misread his post...he wants her to call him all the time or he would be gone. Who knows her motivation for complying.

it would seem that only one side of the *relationship* is having their emotinal needs met the other her financial.
my take of a a utopic situation was if it were to be met on both sides.
anyway...

I have clients that I care about. I have one that I even considered dating in "real" life if he was interested. I have another client who I enjoy on an emotional level and he truly wants to be with me, but we must remember how we met in the first place. Of course, these are clients that I've been seeing long-term, so there is bound to be some emotional connection. But this is not "real" life. You can't expect a provider to act as a real life girlfriend with EXPECTED phone calls and such. That is going beyond the call of duty, IMHO. However, you can expect an excellent provider to offer an emotional connection if she appreciates the emotional just as much as the physical.

And there are plenty of drama-free-non-wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am providers who will offer an emotional connection, but will maintain boundaries. Without the boundaries, you will be getting yourself in over your head, and you don't even realize it.

Xoxo.

I wholeheartedly concur. It gets very confusing with so many people, providers and hobbyists alike wanting/providing a non acting experience.

Certain parts are acted as you said and I will even go so far as to say i have acted the physical when the need arises, because you never know from the start who wants honesty and who wants the full illusion package. And I will stand by my statement that not every client is someone I connect with on a physical level. Those that I don't connect with I don't see again as they deserve more and I don't want to feel uncomfortable..win, win.

...or to anyone else, particularly other providers, who may question my "intentions" when i post here, i would like to make things crystal clear.

anything i post here or on any other public venue is nothing more than my own personal feelings, experiences and reflections. as you have likely noticed, more often than not my opinion is an unpopular one. if my goals were "marketing," surely i would make some attempt to appeal to a wider audience? or at the very least, post a link to a website or ad? quite honestly, i have no desire to attract as many men as possible, or to appeal to the masses. i "market" myself only in the appropriate venues for such, and in the quiet and thoughtful way that works for me. the absolute LAST thing i would wish to do is to attract the typical male TER reader/poster, who is not looking for a girl like me and would desire to treat me as just another notch in the bedpost.

but this is an active and often intellectually stimulating online "hobby" community, and i am interested in the "what's it all about?" navel-gazing as well as frank and fun discussions about sex and all the adventures therein. so, that is why i read and why i post, that is all.

Giamarie, i can certainly understand why i must seem incredibly strange and out of place here to you, or if not that, then i must be a world-class fibber with ulterior motives. i'll be the first to admit that i'm far from "normal" (whatever that means). but i happen to believe that it's okay to be a bit weird, and that there is room within this hobby for much diversity. the type of relationship which is more typical for providers and hobbyists...warm but casual, giving but emotionally distant...is something i have outside the hobby. the Hubby and i do not believe in sexual monogamy, and i have always sexually served other men. and in most of those environments, retaining some distance is completely natural and works well.

but this hobby is something entirely different for me...i wanted to make a difference (or at least try my darndest), to touch someone beneath the surface and fill something within that was lacking. and in order to do that, i cannot do the fantasy thing...that is why every man who sees me knows i am happily married and hide NOTHING from my Husband, it is why i don't try to hide my extreme shyness or insecurities, why i don't fake orgasms, etc. about as far as i go with creating an illusion is to 1. pretend that i know how to walk in heels (lol), and 2. not allow any unrelated negative feelings i have to affect my attention or service to a client. this does not mean that i pretend that we are in a lovely fantasy world where my cat never poops on the living room floor and i never worry about a terminally ill relative...in fact i will usually just spill it out, "X is going on in my life, it really has me frustrated/down/frightened/etc." but then i will snuggle up close, head nestled in his lap, and make sure he knows that i am a very, very good girl.

in some ways Giamarie, perhaps you are just far stronger than i. the involvement of those little green pieces of paper in all this makes it all very emotionally delicate for me. i can have casual "relations" no problem...enjoy it quite a bit...but i cannot do so with cash involved. it is also why even with the unique way in which i function in this world, my days are numbered. of course, i hope when the end comes that my long-time friends continue to see me and share their lives with me, and are better off for it.

For every one of us that understands and respects boundaries,  there are ten waiting on line to fall in love, heavy like, or just fall in. Well stated!

Nothing UTOPIAN in this world. Just lots of horny guys and women who sell their time for a fee. We can romanticize this to death, but it just P4$.

I was only using you as an example since John's post was directly below yours and he knows I like to challenge him.

My point was when something is said that feeds the ego of hobbyists (whether true or not), someone is bound to post how great of a provider she is, or how she must do things differently. She must be of the best quality and only screens to the highest degree. On the other hand, if a provider says something that a hobbyists doesn't want to hear (e.g. that there is some illusion to the hobby), then she is a paid actress who can only offer the physical and probably has a shady two references only screening system. Lol.

My point is none of us know if the next person's post is an illusion (e.g. for marketing purposes) or not. Pointing out your post was supposed to be just an example for John. But I don't think it worked very well.

I apologize to you, Lilli, for my mistake.

And you are not so different. Some of the ways you feel, other ladies feel as well. They just might not share their feelings or true intentions here. They may offer an illusion to protect themselves, not allowing their real and P4P worlds to collide.

Take care.

Ally also stressed the point that she is an actress providing an illusion. And I can show you where a ton of really highly rated ladies who are practically icons in the industry have said the exact same thing. Just search on the GD board for words like "illusion," "actress" and "fantasy" and see how many times it has been used by providers.

So I used a specific posting to make a general point that really isn't unique.

Every provider is different, and you are the world's foremost expert on yourself -- so nothing I have stated generally should be seen as applying to you (or anyone else) personally.

But don't be surprised when highly intelligent, very wise and just plain fine people like yourself say something -- my ears perk up and I listen. I might not agree, but you can bet that I listen.

Beyond that, you haven't really disputed anything. I don't think we are really disagreeing.

I am not, in any way, being critical of actresses providing illusions.

And it IS an illusion. Most women only want to have sex with men they personally find attractive. How each woman defines "attractive" may be affected by many factors; but you can pretty much bet she isn't dying to have sex with just any guy who has the requisite fee.

Unless a provider makes a practice of denying service to men she doesn't find attractive; she has to behave as though she finds them SO attractive she just wants to rip their clothes off and screw them silly. While in some cases this might be very real; a casual understanding of human nature says that in quite a few cases it IS acting.

Being a bit better versed in these things than most, I can tell when a woman *actually* finds me attractive by a host of not-consciously-controlled reactions. (I won't list all the reactions here.) I am not at all insulted to report that X out of 8 don't find me a major turn-on; though they ACTED as though they did. Hell, I am just flattered that  8-X DID. LOL

Do you disagree with this general assessment?

Now, I am NOT saying anything about any provider in particular. For all I know, provider Z might just be so incredibly hyper-sexual that she'd have sex with practically any man who couldn't outrun her and would pay him for the privilege to boot. But in GENERAL, yes, providers are acting and providing an illusion to at least SOME degree with SOME of their clients.

You and I are only differing here, if we are differing at all, in terms of degree.

In terms of illusion; what you are describing really doesn't, IMO, comport with the term.

In ANY relationship in the real world, other things get set aside for romance. The car that broke down, the water in the basement, the screaming boss all disappear for intense consideration of each other. Hubby who isn't really in the mood, GETS himself in the mood and turns off his blackberry.  That isn't really an illusion -- it is just a matter of selective attention. They both REALLY love each other and WANT to have sex with each other. Even without money.

I visited a lady last week. I usually wear jeans, flannel and sneakers. But to see her, I put on nice slacks, shirt and tie. I also usually shower at night before bed. But because I was seeing her, I showered mid-day as well. That isn't an illusion just because it is out of the ordinary. It is just what any guy would do for a date.

So I don't see the oils, scents and setting of atmosphere or turning off your phone as an illusion. That's normal. Any woman who ever dated me in civie life would report that I routinely did stuff like that -- candles, soft music, unplug the phone, etc.

When it becomes an illusion is if the man or woman doesn't really find the other sufficiently naturally attractive to warrant romantic notions; and one or both parties ACT as though such attraction exists when in reality it doesn't.

So that is what I read into the description of illusion. Because providers (not just you) are using the term to DISTINGUISH the provider from a real-life girlfriend; I do not consider any of the stuff that would be done by a real-life girlfriend (like setting aside distractions or setting the mood) to be part of that illusion. I only consider those things that are unique to providing (acting as though you find a man super-attractive when you really don't) to be part of that illusion.

Are the emotional parts illusory?

Since the sex is a simulation of lust rather than love; I can give the benefit of the doubt in indicating that some of the emotion is real. It is entirely reasonable to like, admire and respect someone quite apart from whether or not we have the hots for them.

Certainly, I very HIGHLY admire some providers that I am not drooling with lust over. (Of course, it is actually quite difficult to make me drool with lust anyway. So that's not a reflection on any woman's attractiveness.)

As for friends -- let me disagree a little. I have a very good friend who is a provider. "Meet each other's families" kinda friend. That isn't fake and it WOULD still exist even if I didn't see her occasionally for a session. But this is NOT a romantic thing. If I thought it were, I'd run for the hills.

I have a couple of female friends with whom I have never had sex; and some of those friendships have outlasted all of my romantic relationships combined.

So don't kid yourself. Billy Krystal notwithstanding, some men are in fact perfectly capable of maintaining friendships with women in the absence of either paid or unpaid sex. Maybe some of your guy friends would remain such even if you quit providing. Yes?

And, yes, as a connection-oriented hobbyist who is WAY more sophisticated than most in ascertaining a person's true feelings and motives (though I seldom report them); I can agree with you that a certain amount of the emotion in some sessions with some providers is real. I don't doubt for a second that you would be one of them.

But I think we both agree that it is unhealthy to RELY on P4P as a source of meeting emotional needs.

As for lilli; she isn't marketing here -- you don't even see a link to her reviews or any website on her posts. Like you, she is a fine woman in the ways that matter. She is just in a specific subset of the market.

xoxo!
John

You're right! The hobby is a great place to meet very nice people who don't mind sharing a certain level of intimacy. That might include a number of things, but there is nothing contractual or implied just because you decide to pay your Benjamins. PAYING for Emotional support outside of a trained professional is a recipe to get wiped across the floor. While there are certainly some good listeners out there and people that I've come to care for, I know that paying for anything close to emotional an hour or so at a time is plain foolish. We should focus on getting her to take actions that bring out the right fluids out of our bodies and save our tears for a funeral.

With johngaltnh. Cruisin for  a brusin, that's classic! Paying for emotional support will almost always lead to drama. Just my 2 cents.

RRD

Well said, Giamarie.  I think things are better when there is a connection - more than just physical one.  But perspective and boundaries are very important.