I recall a message on one of these discussion boards a little while ago where someone was looking to get into a monogamous relationship with a provider, and I'm thinking about it today because I'm dealing with yet another "client" who wants a relationship rather than hiring me.

I realize this is a pretty common thing, but I guess I just don't get it.  I mean, for God's sake, I'm not some drug addled teenage runaway feeding a crack habit, and I think from the way I present myself that should be fairly obvious.  I chose this lifestyle because I like it and it suits me, (which monogamy most definitely doesn't!) but why do I feel like I have to explain all that?  Do they think they're saving me from some horrible lifestyle I've been forced into?  Or is it some kind of hopeless romantic fantasy, like those women who keep falling in love with gays?

On the other hand, I have become pretty good friends with certain clients, to the point of going out to lunch or the art gallery or something, (without the meter running, I mean).  Things have been cool so far, no pressure or anything, but I worry if I'm sending the wrong message, if I'm leading them on, so to speak.  Everybody's different, of course, but I wonder if I should cut this out entirely and keep everything on a business only footing.  I genuinely like most, (maybe all?), of my clients, and I guess it goes against my nature to charge for every minute of my time.

Is this kind of expectation more common over the last few years, what with this trend to GFE?

I'm curious what other people think, and what other people's experiences have been, and thank anybody who offers their input.

-Anya

That's a tough question. I think that you must have a good sense for what the guy is thinking/feeling. Some you can be friends with and they'll know what the limits are, when the meter is running and when it's not. Some you can outline the rules and they'll respect that. Others won't have a clue and those are the ones that it's best kept a business only. Unfortunately, that puts the onus on you to be the judge because some guys just can't do it themselves. jus my take

pt

I think it is inherent in human nature for any two given people to want and interpret things different ways.  The signals you give off are what they are and it is inevitable that someone else somewhere along the line will misinterpret it.  They, after all, have a different agenda, coming from a different individual consciousness - unless we are assimilated by the Borg.

This is even more potent a possibility in The Hobby because sex deals with something at the center of all living beings.

There are all sorts of reasons why sex is so much a part of every civilization's legal system.  The genetic imperative, a level of intimacy not experienced with other humans in the normal course of life, and all sorts of vulnerabilities.

And you never really know what somebody else is thinking.  The Greek Ideos Kosmos (individual reality) has ultimately far more substanace than Koinos Kosmos (basically, what you think everybody else thinks.)  

That has a lot to do with my interest in linquistics.  Like in the Semiotics post for which eveyone made fun of me.  (And I enjoyed every minute of it.)  We are not even speaking the same language.

It is gonna happen in The Hobby.  (Once it happened to me in reverse, in Sydney - THAT was weird.)  All you can do is do the best you can to be yourself, realize that no one (and I don't believe in psychic ability so I mean NO one) can read your mind.  When a client gets a little confused, set him straight (so to speak) or don't see him any more.  But, I would wait until he makes it clear he is thinking inappropriate thoughts.  If he really wasn't going there and YOU misinterpreted HIM, he would find that REALLY embarrassing.

OK.  A clear sign that I have lost the ability to write proper prose is when I start using a lot of upper cAsE.  So I aM gOiNg To ShUt Up.

Here is my 2 cents...

I think the client may get the wrong impression if you start hanging out with them for free and they will mistakenly read that as you being  interested in them and will feel led on when they find out you are just being a cool person and "hanging out."

Befriending a client to such a personal level is a sure-fire way of losing them as a client as it will feel awkward for them to suddenly "hire" you again once a personal friendship has developed.

Also keep in mind that a lot of the men who want to date you are going to be lonely, vulnerable and a maybe a little needy so you want to make sure you are not misunderstood.  They could get hurt.


Talisa

People are complicated. Two people interacting is infinitely complicated.

One of the appealing things about the provider/client relationship is that it's simple. Both parties go into it with a reasonable expectation and they both get what they want.

I think it's dangerous to cross the line. I've had to fight to keep myself from getting emotionally attached to a provider, and she did nothing more than strict business.

but one does have to be careful, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was a rare sort of relationship.  It could be very easy for the client/friend to _think_ he was misled.  Ask yourself how stable the friend is.  How likely he is to be deluding himself.  And the real reasons you want a business associate to be your friend.

a true friend is someone you trust and can share with. If there is no pressure why create it?

It could be hard for you to fully trust anyone in the hobby... but this depends on your fears.

if you really need the friendships try to remove your fear asap.

I have such a relationship with a provider.  When I travel to her city, about 6 times a year, and when she is on my city, about twice a year, we meet for dinner, etc. off the meter.  Other time spent together is on the meter.  This relationship has been going now for about 4 years now, but I was a client of hers for 2 years prior to this arrangement, so we got to know each other reasonably well beforehand.  The two recommendations I can give you are these:

1.  Be sure you are comfortable with the personality and stability of the client before you enter into anything other than an "on the meter" relationship, just like a real date situation.

2.  Make it VERY CLEAR up front what YOUR ground rules are.


Jeez, I think I just sounded like a provider!

Good Luck!

PS- You sound like a terrific girl, and at some point I hope to meet you (on the meter, of course).

I think this is something to evaluate on a client by client basis.  Of course you can elect to take the safe course and keep everything on a strict business basis. However you may miss out on some enjoyable experiences.  I have had a couple of relationships with providers where we would sometimes have dinner or some other activity that we both enjoyed off the clock and then would spend some time on the clock.  In both cases we had been seeing each other on strict business basis for a period of time before this started. In neither case was I trying to create a monogamous relationship.  


-- Modified on 5/8/2002 4:02:37 AM

In my past experience,if a client wants to date you or have you as his girlfriend~~~~Bottom line is: He wants free pu**y.

I think....

Your size 11/12 body and ample bottom are well suited for things besides photography, but alas, if you have your limitations...(of course it occurs to me that perhaps I am just DENSE...here you are on an Escort Review discussion board...but having found no reviews, I can't be certain...which is too bad...have I mentioned that I have a weakness for ample-bottomed sexy WFs?)

Anyway...back on topic, I think that the vast majority (as in "all', except I can't say all, because I don't know them all, or any besides myself really) of hobbyists can probably be placed in one of 3 categories:

A) Relatively normal guys (normal meaning both reasonably attractive and reasonably grounded, well adjusted and emotionally stable) who have some issue in their intimate relationship with their SigO. For whatever reason...who is to say what...they are not happy with the way things are at home, so they seek "companionship" elsewhere. Some are just there for the sex (their wife simply won't BBBJ, and only wants missionary with the lights out once a week...and NEVER on Sunday), others want someone to talk to that won't ask them about painting the garage and the relationship between them and their mother-in-law, but the bottom line is they are in relatively happy relationships AWAY from the hobby (at least happy enough so that they aren't looking to end them) that are lacking something...something they get from ASPs. Once they have what they seek, they pays their money and go back from whence they came. I suspect most married guys fit into this category

B) Relatively attractive guys who have little to no problem meeting women and forming relationships outside the hobby, but for whatever reason (as in a little therapy wouldn't hurt) want / need to have sex with other women. They want steady relationships...they have steady relationships...but monogamy just isn't in the cards for them. They want sex with as many different women as possible. Frequency isn’t the issue necessarily (I know it isn't for me...the women I date tend to be that mid "30's - early 40's - hormones - ragging - can't - get - enough – sex” type), though it could be. It is the variety that matters. They are womanizers...plain and simple. They too pay their money and go back from whence they came...heck they don't WANT to see you again...that would defeat the whole point of seeing you in the first place. I fall into this category.

C) The last group are guys who are neither reasonably attractive, and / or reasonably well adjusted (at least not socially) and thus do indeed have problems meeting and forming relationships with women outside the hobby. They are good guys…nice guys…gentlemen in every way, pay their taxes, etc. They just have little to no luck with women. They come to see you because they cannot reliably count on meeting and sharing intimacies with a woman under any other circumstances. They come to see you repeatedly – forming a bond that at first is attractive to you, because it relives you of the pressure of screening and having to deal with a stranger (which I am sure is a little bit offsetting each time, even for an experienced escort). However, the problem develops when they fail to keep perspective…that they are PAYING you for your time and intimacies, and that while you might indeed like them as a person, you are spending time with them for money, not because they are all that damn charming (or good looking, or great in bed, or whatever). These guys, with limited experience with women in general, very easily confuse your kindness for romantic interest, confuse their feelings of familiarity with actual emotional involvement, and forget the business arrangement at hand. They now want to be your BF…want to “save you from all this”. Thus, you have your problem.

What do you do? Well, I’d say limit your repeat customers, and thus prevent trouble from every starting, but I know EVERY escort, like every businessperson, counts on repeat customers. In lieu of that, I would definitely say be prepared to stop seeing a client the minute (ok, maybe allow two minutes) you get the feeling he (or she?) has lost perspective. Every time you see them AFTER they have expressed a romantic interest, you are reinforcing their delusion, even while your words deny it (they care nothing about YOUR perspective on this…they are obsessed with their own).

Should you not see clients “off the meter”? Certainly not those who allude to any sort of romantic relationship I would say. Others? It is tough to say. I know I have seen a couple ladies “off the meter” and it worked out just fine in my mind. And I know a couple more have asked ME about getting together away from the hobby, which I tactfully declined (actually, both of them were people I would have been glad to date, as side distractions aside from my SigO, had I met them under different circumstances…but since we did meet as we met, I thought better of it).  You certainly have to be clear about the rules up front, whatever they are (for me, I refuse to pay for someone’s “time” the strictest sense of the word. If we spend time to together doing anything other than getting hot and bothered, it is because we enjoy each other’s company. I am not going to pay for the privilege…in my mind it is enough that I act in the role of a gentleman and pay for the festivities...)

So…what to do? Be careful…very careful…as to whom you see away off the meter. I would almost say you should limit it to clients YOU chose…that if the guy comes up with the idea first, then that is a bad sign. And be sure to terminate the BUSINESS relationship with any guy who seems to be losing sight of the fact that it is just that…BUSINESS.

My long-winded two cents…(do I get any change?)

Guys fall in love at the drop of a hat. Hell, I've fallen in love twice today. Most of my young adult live was spent loving women who did not feel the same way. One of the many reasons I've got both feet set in The Blues....

I can understand a man, over time falling in love and wanting to marry a provider. I can also understand the difficulties there will be to overcome. Relationships in the real world just "happen" and I don't see why that reality does not cross over into a provider's world as well. But there has to be two way chemistry. One way chemistry is a bummer. Or a stalker!

I don't uderstand the necessity of a person (women are as guilty as men) viewing a relationship as "possession." We will all be spurned lovers at one time or another. Hurts. Both ways... I think it normal that you feel a little weird over stuff like this. Who wouldn't?

Thank you for your answer, first of all, and to everyone else who offered opinions and advice.  I was looking to get a bigger perspective on this whole thing, and that's just what I got.

Thanks also about my butt - it does seem to be the most popular part of my anatomy, so God bless all of you ample butt loving men.

And yes, I know I don't have any reviews up here yet, which is becoming a source of annoyance to me.  Thing is, I don't have a huge amount of strictly escort clients, most of it is just overlap from erotic modeling, especially private collection work or where the photographer/videographer is also the male model (or one of them).  Or they take pictures for a while and then after the camera's put away the real fun begins.  That kind of thing.  But those people aren't likely to post a review, more's the pity, and I don't really like to bug people to do so.

Anyway, thanks again and remember me if you're ever in the area, (and then I'll insist you post a review!)

-Anya

The GFE (Girl Friend Experience) is misleading to those that have a ATF that is also a GFE. If the GFE starts to stop the meter, then WE tend to conclude or assume that the GFE wants to become our GF. I know all to well first hand, after several runs, by both the same GFE and different ones as well, that if you want to keep your clients just clients, spare them the hurt, and keep the meter on. If you want them as "friends" make it clear that once the bedroom door opens the clock starts again. If they can handle that, then maybe it can work. Mostly with me and my experiences, my GFE's that turned into GF's have departed as NMFHE (Night Mare From Hell Experiences). And that hurts both of us each time. No one wants that, so spare your clients, and keep it up front. Talk about it. Make it clear and understood. That may work, but it also may not. That is just my opinion and what do I know.

-- Modified on 5/13/2002 4:15:42 AM

I second your statements DateAMan!  And we both know why!

LM

To both of youse guys....call me WAY out in left field here....but how did you EVER think things would move from GFE to GF smoothly in the first place? If you meet someone under the pretense of paying them for their time...how could it the relationship ever realistically sustain itself under other circumstances? Yes, yes...you can hang out "off the meter"...two people can enjoy each others company regardless of how they met.

But...and maybe I am just too stupid to understand otherwise...as long as "she" kept taking your money...how would you EVER be clear that she enjoyed YOU for who YOU were? How would she ever be a "GF" for certain in your mind?

I guess I am asking...why confuse things...for you or her...by even going there?

always wanting to help those I am able to, or think I can help, and being the forever rescuer and enabler in life, as a true giver, it is easy to believe that the GFE refusing my money, and just wanting to come on by to play for pleasures sake, can become somewhhat convincing. Thus when she becomes in need, which is usually not long after she stops taking the money, I am certainly more than willing to assist this part time GF, as I would with any Girl Friend, and as I haave always done for all those I have been intimate with regardless. Thatt is just my nature. Well then the scale gets weighted to one side, no longer a balance, no longer a mutually beneficial relationship from any standpoint, but hers. So in hopes of finding the goodness still inside the X-GFE, we tolerate this outlay, for as long as we can and thhen once we begin to wiithdraw suchh extensive support, trying to put some kind of balance back into the equation, thhe X-GFE almmost turned GF becomes resentful, abusive, threatening, and very risky to maintain so close. So the removal process begiins, but that is immmediately deemed "abuseive or usery" by the now NMFHE. Now is when the drama gets heavy. And I thought Ii was smarter than that too. Oh well. But this is just my rambling opinion, and what do I know?

I think MyLife is right on this one for the most part... you have to remember that while a real relationship CAN come from meeting this way, it is going to be RARE. I have had a bunch of guys fall for me and I never even went "off the clock" with them, but I can tell you I HATE it when that happens. I'm a pleaser, and if I have someone telling me they are in love with me when I am not feeling the same way... well, there is simply nothing I can honestly tell them that is going to please them at that point.

You sound like a sweetheart of a guy who really means well and just wants to help... and I hate seeing sweethearts get themselves into the situation you speak of! Often times there are ways to help a lady without giving her money... and one thing to ask yourself is... if she's in this 'biz and has no cash to pay her rent, WHAT ELSE IS GOING ON? Because SOMETHING is. Even when it's SLOWWWWWWWWWW and I mean REALLY slow, I make enough to pay my bills, and my bills are ridiculous! I have a $1500 mortgage. ==:O Always ask yourself that question and ONE other thing to remember... I have a hard time with this one sometimes myself, because I, like you, am always ready to help out a friend... but MONEY is the one thing that invariably breaks up a friendship.

Hugs*
Nicole

YOU stop giving HER money, and she calls YOU "usery" and "abusive"??

What a nut case...you are MUCH better off without her. She sounds like the WORSE kind of loser...a user - loser, the kind that drags you down into the abyss with her.

(sigh)

As I guy, I feel for you. I hope that your lesson was learned.

SigOs are not Providers. Providers are not SigOs...

It about sex and money...and anyone who tells you different is trying to get more of your money. We can be "friendly"....hell, we can even be "friends"...but until money stop exchange hands, never forget, it ain't personal, its business.

Psychodrama City thy name is "E***."

("Psychodrama City" was a song by The Byrds.)