i recently was with a provider that brushed her teeth before and after. is this dangerous- because of the chance of bleeding from her gums? she also use mouthwash after brushing. any opinions out there?

Bad idea. I never brush my teeth more than 4 hours prior to meeting with a provider. It just opens up your gums to all kinds of bacteria. I want my and ny providers gums all sealed up before any contact takes place. JMHO

Brushing or flossing, even if your gums are healthy and don't appear to bleed, can cause micro-fissures in the delicate gingiva.  These fissures can allow infectious agents to enter your blood stream.  It's a good idea to avoid these activities for at least an hour prior to any sexual activities that might involve your mouth.  

Mouthwash is okay as a breath freshener, but if you want to kill germs, use hydrogen peroxide.  Don't do it too often, though. It's tough on your teeth and the gingival tissues.  Most STDs are anerobes, and die in the presence of the oxygen released by hydrogen peroxide.  And, if you suffer from bleeding gums, a week of rinsing with hydrogen peroxide can make a big difference.  But if the problem persists, see your dentist.

Doesn't sound good to me.  I use mouthwash before/after visiting -- but no flossing/brushing to avoid the microtears you alluded to.

Dude, why would you think that her gums bleed after brushing her teeth?  Did you see them bleed or are you assuming as much because yours do?

Healthy gums do not bleed after brushing. If they do you've got a problem.  Gingivitis at the least and Periodontitis if it's been happening for any length of time.  This can be the source of some major breath problems as well.

As for the risks.  It is blood.  That means blood borne pathogens reside therein.  Any and all potential contamination modalities exist.  BBBJ on a dick with an open wound (not a great idea to begin with) could be the ingress site for HIV from the blood.  It appears that the possibility of said infection is small under the usual circumstances.  

This has been well ventilated on these boards in the past and a search will give you heaps of info.

The mouth contains the largest numbers of bacteria in that body in both concentration and variety.  Have you gotten sick from kissing letely?  Saliva can cary most of the bugs that concern the hobbying public.

Party on, dude.

PS  mouthwash kills OK but the little buggars are back to full count within about 20 min.  They are good a math, they multiply and divide rapidly.

-- Modified on 4/29/2003 7:39:20 PM

Yes, there is a greater chance of contracting an STD, immediately after brushing your teeth.  On a side note, my doctor recommends sucking a lemon, before performing oral.  It will make any open wounds very obvious.

Lizzy

Why not clean with a baby wipe before performing oral, to accomplish the same purpose, and also be clean?

http://theeroticreview.com/MsgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=12&Page=1&Messageid=45596

I don't want to get into too much here, but I'd be very interested in knowing where this info came from.  I am very skeptical about this sort of comment.  It sort of sounds like it makes sense so nobody would really have much reason to doubt it, but it may very well be hogwash.

As I posted earilier, blood is blood, but gums rarely bleed for any extended time after brushing; even the most inflammed gingiva.  So the risk to the recipiant of the oral treat should not be much diffenent 2 or 3 min. after a brushing than before. As for the mouth, the provider shouldn't be in any greater danger after a brushing than bafore since the lesions existed before the brushing unless they are really scrubbing with a hard brush and litterly lascerating the gums to make them bleed.

If your gums bleed after brushing, and you should use only a soft brush, go see a dentist for God sake.

My doctor gave me that information several years ago.  I'll chat with him, in order to find a link online to back up his information.

Lizzy

http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/hivstd/infoline/tapes/oral.htm

http://www.webpeers.net/postings/oralsex.html

Before a session, yes... little cuts and abrasians open in your mouth from brushing. Afterwards as long as you don't have another session for at least an hour, it's fine.

Hugs*
Nicole

Here is one provider who is dying to know why so many clients have terrible teeth. I don't mean "forgot a mint" before they saw me, I mean teeth that are so crooked and sharp they are rotting out of their mouths. Gents with teeth missing from right in front! Gents with teeth with big rotting decaying holes right in front that go ignored!  You want me to stick my tongue in that????

I mean really, you'd think that in this industry the vast majority would be able to either afford good dental care, or have insurance that covers most of it. In this day and age, really, is there a good reason for this? (Honest... I'm curious!)  Because truly, my feeling is that if you can afford to spend money on me, you can afford to care for your teeth!

Regardless... if you have bad, bad teeth, PLEASE do us a favor and be honest with yourself about it. Either get it fixed, or please do not expect me to kiss you! This falls under "hygiene, required for fun!"

Thank you,
A concerned lady...

I do understand a healthy dose of skepticism, but this one seems so obvious on its face to me!  HEALTHY gums even have microscopic tears  after brushing your teeth. Not for days or months, mind you, but for about an hour or two. I think what you're picturing is not what needs to be there to cause problems.

http://www.webpeers.net/postings/oralsex.html
I have heard that it is not safe to brush your teeth before having oral sex!
Is this true or another AIDS myth?
- by Sunny

When we talk about risk, we talk about level of risk. Some behaviors put you at higher risk than other behaviors, but this does not mean lower risk behaviors are risk free. Brushing your teeth may cause tiny tears or irritations in the gums which can provide an avenue for infection from things such as HIV, the AIDS virus. Some suggest using mouth wash instead of brushing your teeth before having oral sex. We suggest lowering your risk of catching any STD such as herpes or gonorrhea or HIV by using a barrier device such as a condom.

Here's another good link...
http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/hivstd/infoline/tapes/oral.htm

And another... (A really really LONG URL because it's a PDF file and I have google set to "show as HTML")
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:MmKGLMtml6sC:www.stdservices.on.net/publications/pdf/condom.pdf+brush+teeth+STD&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Maybe you should ask your friendly neighborhood clinic about this...

Hugs*
Nicole

-- Modified on 5/1/2003 1:44:35 AM

This is where I guess I may get into this a bit far for this venue.  These refrences are of the sort that I mentioned.  I believe that they are in the "that makes sense" catagory.  That is someone somewhere thought that sounded like sound advice (and it does) so it was put out as a guidline without any actual evidence to support it.  Government health  agencies, especially at the local level, and HMO's tend to do this fairly often.

An example of similar advice is that money spreads germs and you should never put money in you mouth. The fact is that money has never been reported to have caused anything.  

I guess that the important thing to consider for the sake of this argument, is that there is little if any harm in heeding the advice and not brush you teeth before engaging in oral sex...and don't put money in your mouth.

I was one of those people (note the "was") so let me give you some insight into the other side of the story.

First, the ability of your teeth and gums to resist decay comes from three things: proper brushing and other dental personal hygene, proper professional dental care including floride (preferably in the water), and genetics.  Yes, genetics does play a role, more significant than most people realize - some people, despite very good personal hygene and regular professional care, have "bad teeth", while others have strong healthy teeth despite relatively poor hygene and care.

I'm proof that genetics can't overcome poor care. My family has always had good teeth, but I grew up on a farm drinking well water with no flouride treatment, and every dentist I've dealt with has told me that lack of floride while growing up had an impact on my dental health in later years.  But mostly it was because I had a traumatic experience with a dentist when I was young, and that soured me from going to dentists.  Nor did I give my teeth the attention they deserved with a brush, and 30 years of smoking added its share of problems.  

Note here that, while many companies offer "dental plans" as part of their employee benefits, most of said plans do not really cover anything more than annuals cleanings and other minor things - they certainly don't cover major reconstructive and/or cosmetic dental work.  In some cases, your general health insurance may cover some of these bigger dental actions (it's a quality-of-life issue) but where and to what extent varries widely from health plan to health plan, and most HMO's don't cover those sorts of things at all.  And they can get VERY expensive!  I'm a software professional and make very good money, but I don't make the kind that let me pay for that level of thing out of my hip pocket, and adding another car payment's worth of monthly debt to take out a loan to get it done didn't appeal to me.

Anyway, the result in my case was that by the time I was 45, all of my molars were broken as were a couple of my canines and bicuspids, and I had a "black tooth" in the front.  I never smiled, at least not enough to show my teeth.  I was ashamed of myself, and had some significant self-confidence issues.  I wanted to get something done, but didn't have the insurance to cover it, certainly didn't have the free cash, and I had that long-standing problem with dentists.  Having a front incisor become lose enough to almost fall out made me realize that I couldn't keep putting off getting things taken care of.

About that time, my father passed away, and I finally had enough money from my inheritance to do something about it.  "Something" turned out to be pulling ALL of my lower teeth and four of my uppers.  I went with mplants (5 lower and 2 upper,) a permanent "bolt-in" appliance for the lower jaw, and one piece of bridgework, two implant crowns and some veneers for the upper.  Expensive?  Yep, to the tune of almost $30,000 (see ladies? Those $5000 boob jobs are cheap, comparatively.)  But I now have a beautiful white smile that I'm happy to show, my self-confidence is back where it should be, and no one can tell that I don't have all my natural teeth unless they literally go inside my mouth looking.  Oh, and you can bet that I brush them and get them regular dental care now!  And I quit smoking, which helps a lot.

My point in baring my soul like this is so you know that not everyone with a mouth full of bad teeth is automatically some trailer-park trash or a bad person.  Some people have real reasons for their dental problems, and have reasons for not being able to afford fixing it.  

I understand and agree with your point of not kissing someone who is unappealing or disgusting to you.  However, I'd recommend that, if the guy is that disgusting to you, you should politely refuse to entertain him completely.

FYI - Smoking and chewing snuff also increase significantly the incidence of dental disease & gum disease.  Smokers also have a harder time treating dental disease if continuing to smoke.  Maybe the incidence of bad teeth noticed on this forum is more related to tobacco use than socio-economic profile!  Any thoughts on this?  Providers - care to conduct a (non-scientific) poll of the percentage of clients with dental disease who use tobacco versus those the incidence of clients with dental disease who do not use tobacco! (BTW - the converse is probably also true concerning providers with bad teeth/gum disease!)

Your insight. My intent was never to imply that people with bad teeth are trailer trash, or bad... in fact, quite the opposite, because what I'm seeing is a trend of people who are well to do (ie: can afford $300/hour entertainment which most clients obviously are), with bad teeth. Quite different from going to a west va coal mine and finding folks with bad teeth. Nor do I think bad teeth imply any flaw in a personality. I just can't see why wait? Personally I'd rather deal with the debt than be unable to smile... and usually if you nip these things quick and early on, they're cheaper to fix than if you wait and wait and wait.

FWIW, I have terrible teeth in terms of cavities. I'm just cavity prone, as you said. But I get them filled.

As for turning someone down if they are that bad... well honestly that's not as easy to do as you may think. If you think it's easy to look a NICE PERSON in the eye and say "I'm sorry, but I find you too disgusting to touch," you're extremely mislead. My goal is to spare their feelings and give them as full and excellent a session as I can without getting too much into the holes of decay!    I really do think that's a fair goal.