good service always deserves a tip no matter what business it is.
I am so amused by the discussions of men willing providing gifts and large tips to the ladies in the hopes of better service and the ladies claiming they provide the ultimate "girlfriend experience".
Let me enlighten all the men about reality. About 10 years ago when I first entered this wonderful hobby, I found one lady whose company I enjoyed and began seeing her exclusively (on my part, she was seeing whomever she felt like). During the first several months, I prob. saw her about 15-20 times (at $200 per hour). Each session was an hour. We would laugh, have great conversation before engaging in awesome sex. It felt like a girlfriend; we got along fabulously well. One day, I decided to see if she was free the next day for lunch, my treat of course, before heading up to her place for our usual one hour session. When I broached the subject on the phone, her first words out of her mouth were not, "Oh, what a sweet gesture" or "no thanks, honey, I have plenty of food in the house, but I appreciate the thought", it was (and I kid you not). "Your going to have to pay a heck of a lot more than $200 for me to join you for lunch". I was speechless. I managed to finally say okay, let me check my schedule and I'll call you back. Which I never did. It was at that moment when I realized what this hobby was all about. In spite of spending several thousand dollars on her, in spite of her professing on multiple occassions to love my company immensely, she wouldnt dare join me(prob. for a 15-20 minute lunch) unless I shelled out more money.
This experience has greatly served me well over the years. I have realized that this hobby is all business, there are no emotions or feelings. That is why I never tip, bring gifts, because what is the point?? Gentleman, you are a dollar sign to these ladies, there is no girlfriend experience to be had. You are not and never will be their girlfriend, no matter what level of service the ladies provide to you.
I am not saying I do not enjoy the ladies companies (I wouldnt have remained active for 10 years), because the majority of the women I have met are very engaging and great to be with. All I'm saying is that men should not get into the trap of actually thinking you mean something more to these women than you really do. Because at the end of the day, it's all about your money.
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 10:13:23 AM
it is counterproductive to insist that our own experience and perspective is the one which MUST be shared by all others. I'm sorry you were treated like that, but that's not been my experience.
His point is reasonably valid, but generalizations tend to have exceptions. I have a provider friend that I have lunch with frequently. I mostly pay for lunch, but occasionally she insists. It's completely off the clock, and the entire event is lunch. Another friend has politely informed me that lunch off the clock would make things weird for her, and I can respect that. In both cases, we've spent way more time together than I've paid for, and in both cases I consider them friends. We all make a living, and understand that there's a business aspect of our relationship, but it CAN be more than that.
As a rule, I think I agree more than disagree with the original point. Maybe it's better placed on the newbie board, but the pre-arranged transaction is for time and companionship, not love. It seems like that is forgotten frequently, and it's easy to do with some of the better providers.
I second that. Over time I have met more than one who elects to spend off the clock time with me.
...however, you were dealt a bad hand by that provider's lack of tact when you offered to treat her to lunch. And I think you're smart enough to know it. So, your jaded experience aside... your point is noted. However, there are scores of hobbyists (myself included) who can tell you stories that go into the opposite direction and end mutually happy. Keep on hobbying, and who knows maybe one day you'll sing a different tune.
Keep in mind that this guy has FIFTY NINE reviews, so I'm sure he is WELL aware of the overall landscape....
that was just the encounter that drove the point home with him.
I've had a similar experience, with a couple different providers, that reminded me that this is NOT a personal scenario.
If you want love or personal encounters, go to Lavalife or Eharmony.....
but don't fool yourself in this area, because that's just what you will be doing - FOOLING yourself; ie making a fool out of your self.
Don't be fooled, and don't BE a fool.
one person's attitude. Others have a different perspective. Just as hobbiests are here for a wide variety of reasons. Just not all cut and dried like that! or at least that has been my experience.... "life is like a box of chocolates!" lol!
good service always deserves a tip no matter what business it is.
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 6:19:30 PM
but I will say that I certainly don't share your experience.
I have had several of the ladies I have met become good friends.
There are, of course, certain boundries that don't get crossed, and there is still a "prfessional" side that is required, but in some cases
we have gone so far as to get together "off the clock" for lunch, drinks, golf dates, and just bitch sessions (no money or sex involved).
So as long as you don't pressure these ladies, some of them are interested in true friendships.
It can happen and when it does, it nice.
So, in my experience, it's not always "just about the money".
Maybe it's the type of lady I look for, but they are the same as any one else.
They long for friendship as much as the next person. When they find it, it goes beyond money.
Just my opinion...
B
I agree with the business aspect... it is sex for money.. However making a connection with a provider does lead in many cases to a warm friendly relationship.. true the bounderies still exist.. I for one am not looking to cross them.. and, i enjoy bringing a small gift to a ATF and have had a ATF give me gifts.. so thoughtfulness is not lost in the business transaction... Providers, are people, have feelings, enjoy pleasant people, and like to laugh and have fun... they can do that to a limited extent with us.. if so inclined..
just my .02
Thank you for saying what needed to be said.
The more and more I read the discussion and posts on here, the more and more I realize that many (if not most) of these dudes are total suckers, and many (if not most) of the ladies are just playing them.
Ladies ask for tips and gifts, yet checkout my other post, to see how quick they are to refuse ANYTHING extra, and how quick they are to make you feel bad for even CONSIDERING the notion of receiving something extra. lol
Hypocrisy maybe?
Checkout how none of the women want to be judged or condemned, yet in the next breath, how quick are they to judge or put down a dude?
So far I have been referred to as a "neanderthal" and "low class".
What kind of reaction do you think there'd be if I said something similar to one of them?
Don't get me wrong, there are a few very honest women, and a few who will really do you well! I've experienced a few (Jayden for example).
But the more I read, the more I realize how right you are.
Well done, and thanks for sharing that.
Bottom line “it’s all about the money” about time somebody reminded this community which has turned into a bunch of sniveling, emotionally needy, white knights that fall in love with the first twenty something,drop dead gorgeous lady who will give him a bbbjtc. As in DC “if you want a friend, buy a dog”. Don’t forget “ we pay them to go away”. Flame away
I didn't 'fall in love' until the second twenty something lady who gave me a bbbjtc!
Seriously, don't confuse emotionally mature and open with emotionally needy. Just because one can establish close friendships doesn't mean they need to do so.
I know some guys will claim otherwise, and I'm skeptical about that in general, and I've even heard of a girl or two who took up with a client, but you're right.
I had one who thought she was reeling me in, and when she came upon hard times financially, she tried to borrow money off me, and that's when she found out who was realling BSing whom.
whether to argue with your conclusions or not. Your personal story is poignant, and seems to cast light on why you have become (at least IMO) a guarded and pessimistic hobbyist. It is tempting to regale you with stories about providers whom I have known who did allow for an off the clock relationship, albeit not really a romantic one. But on reflection, that doesnt negate the truth or legitimacy of your own experience, and furthermore . . . . You are basically right. It's a business; women do this for money; and falling in love doesnt work.
I do have one very close personal friend who is a provider. It is not a financial relationship. It is also not sexual. When I stopped seeing her as a client, she became my friend.
I still think there's greater lust for you out there than what you've found so far Hardy. But I cant argue too much with your logic.
they can always surprise you. A few weeks ago, I had some unexpected free time and invited a favorite to have dinner with me. I'd invited her to several things prior to this, and she'd always said "no thanks" or not responded at all. To my surprise, she called me and asked me to pick her up after work.
I took her to a leading local restaurant, well known and fairly expensive. Maybe she just wanted company, maybe she just wanted to solidify her business (but she doesn't need me, she's very popular), but at bill paying time she whips out her cc and grabs the bill. I genuinely expected to pay it, (it was large for what we had) because it was my invitation, but she insisted. Of course I was surprised and pleased. So maybe this was not purely entirely altruistic, but it was a gracious gesture and she handled it beautifully, with never a word of explanation. Whatever the reason, it was a class act. Is that a good story or not?
We are all here for different reasons, but thankfully only a very small minority are looking for a relationship.
Brand me a "sniveling, emotionally needy, white knight" if need be. I LOVE these ladies (2 or three hours at a time). I enjoy their raw sexuality, and the emotional connection, knowing that both are not only (frequently) feigned, but also limited by their time and my cash.
In the case you cite, it was YOUR expectations that were out of line. Certainly, she should have handled it better, but don't overlook that it was you who attempted to step outside of the paid relationship that you originally sought. It was ALWAYS all about the money, your imagining otherwise was just you allowing yourself to believe in the fantasy that you were paying her to provide.
Lesson learned...
I see no need to gain favor so I'll tell it from my perspective as a provider.
I am very good at my job...repeat and regulat clients can't all be brain dead or wrong. I respect my clients and treat them very well...in fact just as I would want to be treated. I am very pleasant, affectionate, sexy, homerous and when time dictates, a very good conversationalist.
In short, I am an actress. I do not see men I find distasteful...I did my research and found my market. I solely do this for the money...I make no bones about it. To me, men are for business and women are for pleasure. Plain and simple. Why do I do this...the money and because I can.
Am I cheating my clients...no I am giving them what they want...a fantasy and the illusion that when I am with them nothing matters in this world. Am I attracted to them...no. Do I find my work distasteful...no. What do I enjoy about my work...$$$$$$.
I like the candidness of Hardy and one other poster.
I'm not looking for more friends, I have plenty. I am not looking for a boyfriend and the only one I swap bodily fluids with is MY girlfriend.
And someone said it very well ...you gentlemen pay me to leave.
Uhh yeah, I am not trying to fall in love, I am trying to get a nut. I have seen many providers in my few years as a hobby and although I prefer the girls who are more than a one hour session, even the best of the best on a full day session are still just business to me. Granted, I do not see a slew of ladies because I am very cautious and selective, but even those rare vip's I see once a month will admit to one thing. They don't give it away for free. Most of these girls have had guys use and abuse them for intimacy and they decided to get something in return; hence the provider business. I have girls that I do see as friends and have taken a special interest in but let's face it, if I fall in love that is on me. It was certainly not in her contract. I have known ladies to fall for clients and end up dating and even marrying, but those situations are few and far between and usually don't last because both parties are still wondering when the other will slip back into one arena of the hobby/provider exchange.
She meets me for dinner and drinks, we go up to my room where she opens her gift and then proceeds to rock my world for two or three hours. Schedule permitting, we often fall asleep in each other's arms. If this happens there is a very good chance that I will awaken with her lips wrapped around mr. happy. For this I pay for dinner, breakfast and two hours of her time. Is this an extreme case? Sure it is. Do these ladies do it for the money? Well of course they do. That doesn't mean that it is all about the money though that is obviously what puts you in the room together.
I agree that it is a slippery slope to start thinking that you are special. But, believe it or not, sometimes you are.
I did have a relationship with a provider, I truly loved her and was able to separate "who she was" from "what she did for a living". It was she, who after about six months could not deal with her own demons and drove me off. I have had similar experiences with non-providers as well. Still, I believe it is better to have loved and lost...
I've had providers make very flattering comments to me and I just smile to myself thinking how many other clients they use that line on
This is purely a business transaction we engage in...but I guess some would like to fantasize otherwise. But still, where's the common sense? For the life of me I don't understand why a hobbyist would bring anything more than the donation? These girls are a sure thing, they don't need to be wined and dined and given gifts.....are you kidding me??!!!
It enhanses the experience. After one hour of sex, its six hours of reliving the moments in our heads.
What I mean by that is if this lady had said, "sure let's meet for lunch off the clock", then you would've never made this post. Your opinion seems to be hinged off of one incident, and a disappointing one at that. Had she met you for lunch, your tune would've changed dramatically. Essentially you are crying about a girl who didn't love you the way you thought she did. To me, this makes YOU the emoitonally needy who can't handle a girl who doesn't care for you the way you care for her. That's not meant as an attack on you, but it is meant to highlight the fact that your situation is one example that is irrationally generalizing the entire hobby experience based off of one disappointing moment. This thread as a whole is a better sample size as it points out that some ladies will not under any circumstance ever be anything more than and that some actually do build relationships with their clients. If you graphed it, most likely it would be a bell curve shifted somewhat towards the side that don't make off-the-clock friends.
Your point is still a good one though. We must remember that it is business and that while personal relationships CAN develop, they should never be expected or required. Enjoy your sessions without getting caught up in the emotional side of things. During my meetings I assume the girl wants to only be with me, but when the door closes after I walk out, I assume she doesn't care about me any more than the next guy. It's safer that way.
In general, I have agree with what is stated,
However, in my case, I had the fortune, to meet
a Well known and well reviewed provider, who traveled up from Florida,
We began a friendship, in which we talked often on
the phone, and when she visited my city, we would
go out on dates off the clock. and then eventaully
She and I were involved in a romantic relationship, no cash exchanged.
We became pre-engaged, with plans to marry.
But I got cold feet, and she moved on to retirement. I lost contact with her a few years
back. But I certaintly will always remember the
one that I let get away.
Life has its twists and turns.
OK people. Why does this topic keep coming up? We, the clients make this a cold blooded business. We are the ones that are rating another human being's appearance and performance with numbers . How can we feel abused when we write things like, "I flipped her over and fucked her."? You know perfectly well that the writer did not flip anyone over and fuck her. She would have knocked his lights out and rightfully so. What really happened was they changed positions because she was getting tired from trying to get him off while riding him. We write about these wonderful Ladies who bring us so much pleasure like they have no feelings.
We are the ones who are treating other human beings like a commodity. Why would we not expect them to treat us like an ATM?
If you treat a woman like a Lady, you will be treated as a gentleman in return.
And yes this is an alias I'm using because my profile got way too high.
How many times has someone posted on these boards of a client/provider relationship that 'crossed the line'? How many of those have ended well and how many have ended badly? Speaking as one who once crossed that line (and counts himself lucky that it cost less than $10K and nobody got physically injured) it is, IMO, easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, etc.
I think it safe to say that we, on both sides of the sporting life bed, are often among the 'relationship challenged' and that when the blind lead the blind you never know where you'll end up, just that it's a good bet that it won't be where you wanted to go.
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 7:18:43 PM
for me, with GFE, it's the "E" that matters. i'm not looking for a GF with providers, just looking for something more than a lay sometimes. is the connection real? who cares, because in the end it *can* feel close enough to real.
and in this gig, close enough is close enough.
fantasy is such a major component of these dates. when i want GFE, it's a bit of reality substituting for fantasy, which may sound backwards but i think that's the truth for me.
but end of the day, if you try to drag the GFE into the real world, your mixing matter and anti-matter. worlds are colliding, oil and water are mixing, and your going to wind up posting bitter sounding messages on anonymous message boards.
GFE is cool. don't harsh my mellow for playing.
OOOOOOOOOH Hardy.......
If you look at most providers website they always state: You are paying for my TIME. End of story.
Example... 2 hour lunch date x- amount
OR 4 hour lingering dinner date x-amount
IT IS A BUSINESS. Hence why would a woman go to lunch with you for FREE?
Makes no sense.....
I dont mean to be blunt, but that is how it just is.
I have no idea of what you do, but let's say you are a Lawyer and a client comes to your office, pays your fee, you give him advice and then he states "let's go for lunch"
YOU have a choice
Do you go for lunch OR do you continue to work instead?
I bet you would work!
Mind you, if he was BIG client, perhaps you would go for lunch and get on his better-side, who knows?
It seems with men when Business calls BUSINESS CALLS, when a lady is ALL BUSINESS, then woahhh all hell breaks!
As far as 'there is no girlfriend experience'...the term is used loosely....GFE is the type of lady that will do things most ladies wont, she WILL be passionate AND compassionate
Many ladies do this part-time, they work other jobs or go to school. For them to go for lunch for free doesn't cut it.
That being said YOU ARE RIGHT!, there are ladies out there that WILL trap clients either way, but as you stated IT IS and WILL always BE about THE MONEY!
PPS...You also wrote "I have realized that this hobby is all business, there are no emotions or feelings"
NOT true and again, everyone is different.
Some are robots true, while others do have emotions/feelings.
PS....what you wrote, about ten years ago and the provider you saw stating "Your going to have to pay a heck of a lot more than $200 for me to join you for lunch"
Her abrupt comment was just nasty and uncalled for.
NOT all ladies are like that.
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 8:00:53 PM
Well said jamie!! I would not think of asking a provider that I was currently paying for service to do anything with me without considering her time. Just because Hardy had the time in his schedule to go to lunch at his leisure does not mean this particular provider had that same time to spend. This is their job and like it or not they NEED the money to pay bills, go to school or raise their children just as we have jobs to do the same things. I am a physician and if I went to lunch on MY TIME with anyone who asked me, I may as well work at taco bell.
Hardy, it also sounds like you picked the wrong girl. Sorry, but 200 an hr is pretty cheap and this girl is likely seeing 3 or 4 guys a day to pay her bills. She probably and truthfully does not have the time to see anyone or do anything for free.
You have just taken my heart and dashed it to PIECES! lol
What part did you misunderstand? She also said in her post, "Some are robots true, while others do have emotions/feelings." However, it is a business and some guys want to call just to chit chat with me during my free time. I have other work, too. But you know how great we got along. Wink! Need I say more?
Hugs & smooches,
Ciara
My lawyer invites me out to lunch and does not have the firm bill me $800 per hour. He also pays for lunch!
Gosh you sound so bitter... After reading your words I find that there is much more to your story. You should of shared everything. I also find your faith in your fellow hobbiest weak. They too, read well and realize there are three sides to this story.
It's not that sweet Hardy is bitter, but rather
a man 'scorned'
It has happened to ALL OF US.
When our emotions get involved and the other person
just isn't on the same page
I feel sorry for Hardy5456. He sounds so bitter about that one encounter.
I don't see gentlemen as just $$$$ signs. Some have become my best friends. It just happens like that.
Really?
Do you give them extras??
I'm not hating if you do, but it's just weird reading this, because when the shoe is on the other foot, the ladies are so quick to tell us not to expect ANYTHING extra.
I guess it's all good when the shoes on the other foot. lol
I feel sorry for Hardy5456. He sounds so bitter about that one encounter.
I don't see gentlemen as just $$$$ signs. Some have become my best friends. It just happens like that.
I feel sorry for Hardy5456. He sounds so bitter about that one encounter.
I don't see gentlemen as just $$$$ signs. Some have become my best friends. It just happens like that.
Nevertheless, it's better to presume what you say.
Even if you feel that one of them is your friend, let them invite you for free time. Don't presume that even if they are your friend that they are not thinking about how to pay rent.
-- Modified on 8/15/2007 7:08:54 AM
I have joined many guys for lunch, dinner or cocktails after our "Date" for just the fun and company.
xoxo
-- Modified on 8/15/2007 7:04:21 AM
for weekends, to go to clubs, to go to restaurants, to black tie affairs, to galleries, shows etc. This has happened many times, and with many different ladies. These invites have been "off the clock", and pre-date my duties as moderator (Therefore that was NOT a factor).
I like to party, and I guess that has translated into a lot of "off the clock" time with some very hot ladies.
-- Modified on 8/15/2007 7:45:59 AM
-- Modified on 8/17/2007 5:15:58 AM
I am amazed how many people try to apply your little set of universal rules to other avenues of life besides this one. And people call ME a cynic.
Dude, speak for yourself. I have had things happen in this arena that are so far beyond your simple lunch request that you would eat your heart out. I wish I could enlighten YOU about MY reality, but I can't go into details here for obvious reasons. I will say, though, that I am not the only one...I have more than one friend from here who has not expected anything but has received something that was not about "their money", sometimes quite a lot. Of course, yes, they did pay at first, but what happens after that it up to two individuals...and just because they received something of that nature, they didn't fall apart and immediately think the woman was going to propose to them (and they didn't expect it). Perspective can be applied from any point in life, and not just from the outset. I have even known providers who have married clients, but no, it certainly isn't the norm, and again, you need to have a strong heart to tread in those waters.
Life is what you make of it, so if you see everyone as a possible predator, you will likely be treated in kind. It takes emotional strength to not be that way and to give without expectation of receipt, but sometimes when you do that, especially to the right people. you get much more back in return than you would ever imagine.
You can't take it with you, brother.
"Last night, the wife said
Oh boy, when you're dead
You won't take nothin' with you but your soul
THINK!"
- "The Ballad of John and Yoko"
Great point. Every experience is different for each of the parties involved. The young ladies response was pretty tactless. However, The universal law applies. You get what you give. You give sour chip on shoulder, you get the same in kind...
I don't think your logic applies, because he didn't "give sour chip on shoulder", it was actually given to HIM....
not only that, but I don't think he's "all bitter", or wounded from ONE experience, as some of you would like to paint him out to be.
The dude has a TON of experiences, and I think he's just speaking frankly from that.
It's a common tactic, to try to paint someone as "bitter", because you don't like the message or the perspective.
Self D, I agree with you totally!
I always treat each experience with care, and I give of myself.
Sometimes I get back, and other times I have to put up my guard, or walk away.
But I refuse to give up on the idea, that there are some very special ladies in this hobby, and sadly, there are some that are not so special.
My thanks to all the wonderful, and honest, and
caring providers, (ladies) who have shared with me!
for you to figure out this is a business?
Honestly, you have it all wrong. YOU are the one that should realize that providers are in a business, not there to be your girlfriend or buddy to hang out and have lunch just because you get along. You pay for the companionship whenever and however it takes place.
If you wanted her to be your girlfriend or lunch buddy then you should have discussed it with her ahead of time and MAYBE she would agree to it.
I have made exceptions for some in the past but not for others, it's my choice.
What makes you think this business is any different? Do you go to the doctor,broker, banker,etc. and expect her/him to join you for lunch just because you may get along with them? Probably not.
Yes, it is about the money. But if I, speaking for ONLY myself, find someone I want to see outside my work and they want to see me, well then it's not all about the money. We are not robots and do have emotions and feelings.
-- Modified on 8/15/2007 8:55:43 AM
Exactly, Ellyse. Most client's want to keep it a business too I believe. Just for the record, I have taken Ladies to dinner on the clock and had a wonderful time. You know the deal, appetizer, then go out to dinner, and dessert back at my place. Next time the mealtime on the clock service is quoted disbeleivers should try it. In my experience the dessert is usually dynamite.
I have extended off the clock dinner invitations when both I and the Lady were traveling and met in some city which was not our home base. It seemed like an appropriate offer any gentleman would extend to a Lady when mealtime approaches. Some were accepted and some were not accepted. Sometimes people want to dine alone, sometimes not. Maybe she had another date, maybe she didn't. No expectations. No thoughts of friendship or romance, just courtesy. No big deal.
As for seeing people outside of work, isn't that true of any job? At any job if you find "someone I want to see outside my work and they want to see me" then it's not about the job, or money anyway is it?.
I am glad some of the Ladies joined this thread.
Why dont you go back and re-read my post. Who said it took me 10 years to figure it out?? My experience of 10 years ago, when I first entered the hobby, made me understand the ramifications of the hobby from the very start. That is, that it is all about business, their is no reason to ever give gifts, no reason to leave tips, no reason to believe that you will get any better service no matter what you do. There should be no emotional attachment between providers and clients and that at the end of the day providers care that you are normal and professional and have money to pay for their time. I realize completely that the providers are in business and that is the bottom line.
The point of the post was to enlighten all the men that they are wasting time/money by thinking that they are anything more than a dollar sign to these ladies
It didnt take me 10 years to figure it out..it took me two months and I have taken that lesson to heart ever since.
Psychologist Karen Horney (Yes, that's the real name! Great one for a psychologist, eh?) used that term and it applies here. Always beware of people telling you what you 'should' do.
You wrote- "There should be no emotional attachment between providers and clients"
How hard is it to understand that your opinion may be dead on the money for you but completely wrong for others who have had different experiences in the hobby? Why do you insist that I'm wrong about my own experiences? I've seen some providers who were only interested in a business transaction and they delivered a good service that I was happy to pay for. I've seen others who were open to a different type of relationship that didn't always involve dollars.
Maybe you meant to say, "If you want to avoid any potential emotional unpleasantness, there should be no emotional involvement between providers and clients". Some people are willing to put up with potential unpleasantness for the potential of a deeper relationship. Some aren't. Who are you to tell all others that they shouldn't? I prefer to offer my own experiences and let others make their own decisions. Aren't we all big boys and girls here?
"Maybe you meant to say, "If you want to avoid any potential emotional unpleasantness, there should be no emotional involvement between providers and clients". Some people are willing to put up with potential unpleasantness for the potential of a deeper relationship. Some aren't. Who are you to tell all others that they shouldn't? I prefer to offer my own experiences and let others make their own decisions. Aren't we all big boys and girls here?"
Dude, you really need to get off the PC bandwagon and clear your head... hehe
If you want a "relationship", go to Lavalife or Eharmony.
Then again, if you wanna be a sucker, then I'm not gonna hate. Have at it!
Seriously though, like the OP said in the beginning - these girls are a sure thing.
No need to bring sand to the beach, unless you aren't really heading for the beach.
IF you want some sort of relationship though, I think he was trying to give some well intentioned and helpful advice.
He was actually trying to have your back, as a fellow hobbyist..
Then again, who is he to give you advice right?
I mean his only 54 reviews to your 8 and all. lol
Could it be that some of YOU people are the ones who are bitter, because somebody pointed out a reality, that you are trying to delude yourself away from?
Sorry, but wormwood understands, and you don't. Maybe you need ten years.
It's obvious you can't let this go. Do you want to hear sad stories? I have some great ones including having my car stolen. So get a grip. Worse things have happened than getting turmed down for a lumch date. LOL!
I love these responses…
These come from the same type of woman, who will throw hints for what kind of gifts they’d like. lol
Sounds to me like you’re trying to brainwash.
And for your information, in a BUSINESS world, it’s quite common to have lunch with your clients, only in the BUSINESS world, it is YOU who takes the client out, not the other way around….
But yeah, vilify him for wanting to buy her lunch.
Of course this is a business. But you can't escape the fact that human interaction is involved. Providers are not just interactive orifices. Just like anyone else, providers and hobbyists talk and interact and may come to like (or dislike) one another. Doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna hang out off the clock, but it could. In Hardy's original example, the girl had to eat lunch sometime -- might as well have been with him, expecially if he was buying a session before or after the meal. And whoever said lawyers, doctors, etc. never go to lunch with their clients off the clock is just wrong: happens all the time. In fact, lawyers in particular are often close friends with their clients. In the case of providers/hobbyists, you have an added factor that might lead to social friendships: the fact that the "business" relationship is tied to intimate social interaction, feigned or otherwise. The fact that the affection involved is often faked doesn't mean it can't be real, because people (being people, even if they are just acting as paid sexual providers) can have real human feelings.
If I want to pay for sex, I'll hire an escort.
If I want to pay for someone to talk to, I'll hire a counselor.
HOW IS IT.......... that when YOU the hobbyist, expect even an IOTA of something extra, that these women are quicker than a lighting flash to let you know that it's just business; Yet somehow strangely, they've got some of you suckers buying them gifts and giving them tips.
It's business, and that's the way I'll keep it.
Any and everything, I'll arrange for and negotiate.
If anything personal is to happen, it's gonna happen BOTH ways - not one way, and then someone is left standing at the bus stop.
For all those men who think they are special or "gentlemen", or "more mature".................. knock yourselves out.
It's no skin off my back, and no money out of MY pocket.