Quite obviously that thread has gotten a little out of hand. And I admit I had a part in that just by virtue of responding.

The email I recieved from Mara tonight hit me right between the eyes. She said "I am not the bad person you are making me out to be". I went back and read my post and realized I was unduly harsh in my statements and it is not Maras fault I find no humor in her post. But in no way did I try to make her feel bad or make her out to be a bad person.

I think some people who have been ill directly understand the sting better than others who have been unfortunate enough to sit and watch someone they love go thru an illness. For us all it is painful, and the way we deal with that pain and suffering is always very different. For some of us its just not funny. But that is not to say others will not find humor in it just so they can tolerate the pain.

De Oppresso Liber said it best when he said..."The human condition is filled with trials, at least one of which we are certain not to survive.  Many choose to see this frailty as a serious matter, and I find no fault with that.  Others choose to laugh about it now, while we still can, and I find no fault with that either." I let my own frailty and pain cloud my judgement and post when I should have sat back and just let it go.

For this Mara I am extremely apologetic. As I have said I enjoy your posts. And I am regretful that thread got out of hand the way it did. I know you meant no harm, but I promise I did not mean harm either.

regards,
Lass




-- Modified on 3/6/2003 11:41:41 PM

The most sophisticated airplanes crash, people choke on otherwise delicious food, drown in beautiful rivers, or fall from spectacular vistas to their deaths.  I actually know at least one person who has died in each of those ways.

But in spite of all that, it's not incumbent upon the rest of the world to stop talking about planes, restaurants, water or heights in fear of offending someone who choked on a piece of beef while flying in a 767 that was about to crash in the Colorado river at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.  

It is, however, incumbent upon the people who have experienced pain at the hands of these, or any number of other things to learn how to deal with it as part of the healing process- as part of first surviving and later, getting on with life.  

It's always going to be possible to offend somebody with the most innocent statement or joke if they're still wearing their unresolved feelings on their sleeves.  But it's not the fault of the rest of the world that your feelings get hurt when someone makes a joke or a comment that wasn't specifically directed at you.

The offending post got deleted before I got to read it, so I'm only going by the subsequent responses to figure out what was originally said.  But the specifics of the joke don't really matter to me-  and I'm not unfamiliar with cancer either.  My father had botched prostate surgery, and now an otherwise sophisticated and brilliant man wets his pants and has to wear diapers.  It's wasn't funny then or now, but you have to deal with things that can't be changed, otherwise you're going to go through life with an increasingly large collection of dysfunctions that will eventual get the best of you.  He's learned to cope with his condition and continues doing most of what he would have done before.  He's even discovered a couple clever things to help him better deal with his situation.   We respect him even more for the fact that he showed great dignity, and yes, even great humor, in dealing with what we know was a heartbreaking and humiliating experience.  

I've also had a relative who showed such courage and dignity as MS slowly killed him over a 30 year period that the rest of the family couldn't help but look like unworthy slugs just compared to his example.  But the one thing he never did was make any of us ever feel sorry for him, or treat him like he wasn't still a regular guy first, and only an MS sufferer second.  When he could no longer walk, he used his useless golf putter as a cane, just to feel some connection to happpier times.  He would also be the first to laugh at the ridiculousness of his situation, but he would never feel sorry for himself or want us to feel that way.  Maybe he was that way because he saw the example of his bitter and angry mother who blamed the entire world for her declining health, making everybody who knew her as miserable as she was in the process.

The point is, life can and will be painful, but dealing with those things strictly on an emotional level only serves to amplify that pain, sometimes to the point of totally defeating the individual.

The term "gallows humor" has been around for a long time.  People have been laughing in the face of misfortune or misery for centuries in order to help find the strength to deal with their situation.  It's far healthier than having to to be politically correct all the time, which just introduces a new source of fear without solving anybody's real problems.  I vote for laughter in the face of absurdity any day!



-- Modified on 3/7/2003 1:50:37 AM

I don't have any idea what the offending post was, but I wanted to make a suggestion that may or may not help your father.  I'm sure that he has checked with doctors about the problems following his prostate surgery.  However, you might want to contact Dr. Patrick Walsh of the Brady Urology Clinic at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore.  The Brady Clinic at Hopkins has been rated as the best Urology Clinic in the country.  Dr Walsh has developed procedures that address the problems that your father is experiencing.  He is probably the best in the world at his profession.  He may not be able to help, but it's worth a shot.  He has also written a book.  I believe the title is, "The Prostate in Men, and The Women Who Love Them".  If that's not the exact title, it's close.  Best of luck.

Thank you for accepting my apology.
Mara

I think that people make fun of mammorgrams in much the same way men make fun of getting their prostate checked... both are uncomfortable but very necessary and help with early detection of very serious diseases... yet people throw jokes about them all the time... it's one of our ways of coping, methinks. I think there was something about the way that particular one was written that came off sounding a little "un-joky" at first which may be why so many were offended... but I know she meant no harm!

Lass, as always you are an example we all should look to.

Hugs*
Nicole

Mara emailed me privately as well and I was more than satisfied with her explanation. Thanks so much for taking the time to write!

And it wasn't the first time I've heard it either. I've heard that joke several times over the years. I've had a mammogram, and in fact my bio mother died last year of breast cancer. But I found the joke funny. It would not occur to me in a million years that someone could take this joke and extrapolate it into making fun of people with cancer. And I'm sure that wasn't Mara's intention either.

MM

Though I'm fairly new to the Boards, I've read a number of posts from Ms.Celtic Lass.  I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that Celtic Lass should change her name to "Lady with Class".  Forget the "provider" category, why can't all "humans" display the same Sensitivty, Charm, Wit, and Class as this lovely Lass?
Respectfully....
Fifty Plus

-- Modified on 3/8/2003 9:28:09 AM

are in good spirits have fewer cases of cancer than their type A stressed out counter parts.  I know first hand of the latter as my mother through out most of my life was bitchy and negative and never laughed and she has had 2 incidents of cancer and a stroke.  Happily the stroke miraculously cured her of her nasty negative behavior.  And now I am happy to report that she does laugh often at life and even at herself.  Laughter is good medicine.  Take it from a class clown I have never been sick a day in my life and I laugh all the time.

To be honest you have nothing to apologize for. I have continued to read the responces below and find it very interesting.

I talked to a friend of mine today who is dying of cancer. He was around when I watched my brother slowly slip from us over the course of 4 months. He really ripped me a new hind end when I told him about all of this. He reminded me in no uncertain terms the "Gallows Humor" my beloved Jackie was so fond of during his illness. I had to sit and laugh remembering some  of his sick, twisted jokes, but most of all it was his way of accepting what was happening and making me smile at the same time. My father suffered a massive stroke that summer while Jackie was at his worst. Here we are, the entire family in town to celebrate jackies last birthday, and paramedics, firemen and the lot running around the house. I looked over at Jack and he winks at me and says "Gee, Poor Jack is dying and dad couldn't stand not having the attention so he had to show me up....". You have no idea how hard I laughed and cried at the same time.

Im not sure what prompted my responce below. Could be the after effects of treatment are still lingering in a small way. Maybe its because I think of Jackie every day and now know my friend is not long for this earth. Maybe its because the joke was about the very test that started this all for me personally. Who knows.

All I know is Mara, innocently posted a joke and it became a question of her charactor. That is unforgivable. I have learned alot about myself and my insecurities and sensitivities over the last couple of days. It has been an eye opener. I wish I could take back my responce but I can't. I have chosen to leave it up, if only to remind myself how petty and intolerent I can be and hopefully strive to overcome that.

Thank you Mara for your kind words, but it is I who hopes you forgive me.

Sincerly,
Lass

I did that just last week, and am still recovering, verically and horizontally.

This Lass is a treasure.