Scenario:
You think she was around and came back and charges a lot must be safe. You do your research (well reviewed), give references, but you walk into the incall and bingo your busted.

People are not talking because their cases are pending.

So how can you prevent this from happening ?

What type of signs do you look for ?

behind that chickenshit alias I'll take bets that OMGA is an anti-hobbying "ringer"; probably a cuckolded wife of a hobbyist or an insane Bible thumper.

In any event, let's hope he gets back on his meds
& this will be the last of his crazed posts.

That OMGA was stupid enough to have gotten arrested himself & now wants everyone to wallow in his misery with his continual paranoid postings.

Wow-----I guess this make me some kinda psychic detective, huh ?-------

You can't. The only way to be completely safe from tricks, traps, hot hotels and whatever else you are afraid of is to stay home and jerk off to internet porn...

Even if the average hobbyist reads these books which clearly were not designed to ferret out someone to pay for sex, do you think for one minute that it's possible to pre-select a provider according to the methods outlined in those volumes - particularly when you're having an email conversation restricted to you being screened and she communicating how and where to meet?

Maybe, and really maybe, you could apply some of those theories after you've met the provider in person, but before? Give me a break. You people are wasting your money if you're running out to buy these books and applying them to email conversations and maybe short phonecalls. I mean, what are we really doing here? Flushing out terrorist evildoers or getting laid by beautiful women? Weird, weird, weird and yes, grandiose for sure.

I have fallen and I can't get up!

In one region from time to time various this happens (flipped providers and/or flipped johns). Of course when reported people are in denial. As you see from the responses to my post.

I have heard for years they are going after high profile people. You can check the recent press releases.

The best defence on the war against the hobby is information. When reports of crackdowns start to happen watch out and be careful, take a break for a while. Many providers have Fort Knox type savings and if they are prepared they can weather the storm.

The other defence is STFU if you are question by LE or arrested. There have been a few lucky ones who were let go when they asked for a lawyer. LE could not get them to admit why they were meeting the provider. Just because you have cash, toy bag,  or condoms does not mean a thing.

There is a war on the hobby. It might require one to take a break or only do outcall to reduce the risk of being busted.

Do you think I would be posting on this board after being busted ?

Not a smart move, because LE and your lawyer will tell you to be quiet.

That he is not in the region were the war on the hobby has been declared. Many people are victims of surprise attacks by LE, lives ruined forever.

They did not know to STFU and ask for a lawyer.

One must change tactics and adjust. Some thing to consider are to take a break from the hobby or do outcall.

If you are from West Virginia see you female cousin, lol.

pukes after I leave, but maybe her stomach is a bit queasy. I find the less full of myself I behave, the less degree her stomach feels unsettled.

But, you're right about reading people and the drawbacks. I guess that's why I'm not much of a socializer. I can read people too well. It's also why I stick with a handful of ladies.

And, yep, the part about the limbic system doesn't lie is right on. That's why the expressions for primary process emotions (fear, shame, anger, euphoria, etc.) are universal across cultures.

hardly, despite your "omnipotent" claims to know what goes on in the minds of hobbyists & providers. In fact, I'd venture a majority on this board haven't been busted for ANY crime.

The real reason there has been some negative response to your posts is because it SOUNDS like you're constantly projecting the lousy hobbying situation in your area with LE to the rest of the country.( of course, this is all speculation-unlike you, I make no claims to be psychic ). Also,the advice in your persistent paranoid posts ( when busted, keep quiet & ask for a Lawyer ) is incredibly obvious to even the most newbie of hobbyists.


So how about getting off your "hobby horse" & going to a fresh topic ,like "I've fallen for a provider & can't get up" ?------

post

"The limbic system (or Paleomammalian brain) is a set of brain structures including the hippocampus, amygdala, anterior thalamic nuclei, septum and limbic ..."

and I still don't understand it anyway. But the more important question is will reading the limbic system help in the poker room?

pry my cold hard dead fingers off of my cock?

Sorry, don't mean to offend any gun loving guys out there, but it seems to fit pretty well.

There is always the risk of being busted by LE or robbed. If you've never seen this particular provider then you are taking that chance.

To be honest you have use your 6th sense.......There have been times were I've gone to see a provider (some were well reviewed) and something just did not feel right at that moment, so I left.

But at the end of the day being a provider or Hobbist is a risk we all take.  We never know who's behind other side of the door, and the reason they are there.

If you really must know -- but I warn you in advance that with this knowledge under your belt hobbying will never be the same again -- you should read the following books:

"What Every BODY is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Speed-Reading People" by Navarro and Karlins.
"Principles of Kinesic Interview and Interrogation, Second Edition" by Walters. (Very pricey but very good)
"What the Face Reveals: Basic and Applied Studies of Spontaneous Expression Using the Facial Action Coding System" by Ekman

Once you have internalized this knowledge even the best of providers will be an open book to you.

The trouble is that you will then have to select providers very differently than you have in the past, or you won't enjoy hobbying anymore.

to get you to say or do something that unequivocally means you are offering money for sex.

     LE is not going to flip her and demand that she actually have sex with a client and then bust the client. That would create all sorts of problems for LE and open the door to an outrageous government conduct defense if not a criminal actiivity charge. So they will instruct the gal to elict an unambiguous statement from the client.

       She might well state a price for a sex act, or ask “what do you want” and state a price. Then when you place that envelope on the table, the vice squad appears.

Either that, or someone that is very intent on ruining it for everybody else by planting seeds of doubt into an already 'shady' community and/or lifestyle.

I call bullshit. This is no 'hobbyist', M or F.

Is to give them work to do.

If that guy (or whatever) is going to crawl his ass through $200 worth of reading material, my ass is a rock crusher. LOL

This is a technique I use quite often. I have an open-door policy. People are free to tell me how to improve things. But they quickly learn that their concerns and suggestions become a test of their commitment as gaining the knowledge, implementing the idea or whatever quickly becomes THEIR job -- not mine.

Then, they either follow through or STFU. if they don't follow through, they shut up for fear I'll ask them about their progress.

Don't get me wrong, I'll undertake something worthwhile on my own. But my approach helps separate the wheat from the chafe.

I'd bet dollars to donuts this guy won't crack a book on the topic.

The name behind the alias has reviews and white listings.  I don't personally know him, but he's been around for a while.  If he's as scared as his postings imply, I can understand the use of an alias.  Then again, I like aliases.  In fact, I've got more than most of you.  

The fact you have more alias' than most, that is!

No, but if you say this person has reviews and white listings, that's good enough for me.

Just wonder WTF the deal is with all the paranoid crap?

Much.

Grandiose, well.....

I'll second John's comments, but I'll add one more point.

If I had a different, simpler way to "verify" it, why would I post it here so anyone could easily look to circumvent it?  It would be equivalent to asking providers to tell us how they screen in detail.

Some things we want to know but it may not be in the community's best interest to know.

The only think I put near 100% trust in are those providers who have become true friends over time.  They have always been my most reliable source of info, both good and dangerous.

A question was asked and he gave a very valid reply.  What is your heartburn?  If you think John's post is inaccurate, why?  If you think it doesn't apply to your situation, ignore it.

What all this tells me, as a newbie, is that in order to have my full dose of fun on this board I need to create a veritable pant-load of aliases.  One for each of my many perverse facets. As for being scared of LEO, I'm always wary but will not be disuaded from exploring my rediscovered Dark World.  Hmmm, I wonder in what form I'll appear next????

so what i've been doing is simply avoiding a group of folks who seem to be high risk.

i'm disappearing to reinvent myself. my drama has nothing to do with doughnuts and more to do with zealous WKs. i've experienced WKs conveying little annunciations to me at work. in the past directly confronting those WKs has calmed things down. but in the present jelly-doughnut infested atmosphere the stakes have gotten too high.

some very nice ladies find my confrontations with the WKs "undesirable". so my reviews and posts are shuffled off to another handle. "texcat" is now not a handle but an alias. i'll give UTR (for myself) a try as a strategy.

when the wind blows too hard too long, it's time to shorten the sails.

cheers all.

if you use such methods you know with greater certainty the differences in the quality of information you get. the difficulty is that most hobbyists want to be lied to when it really counts. so they perceive the ability to discriminate as being contrary to their interests in the hobby. they want to be thought to be great lovers and that their discretion is assured. the little head often rejects knowledge the big head would rather have.

In general, I think LE does not need to go that kind of length to get the low hanging fruits ...

However, there was one case in Iowa I know of, in which the LE there first caught a well established, well reviewed provider, then in the course of 1+ week that followed caught a half dozen others -- that was due to a high profile client known to LE (which was caught and ended the whole sting).

while your point is valid that one has to meet a provider face to face to apply these methods. some of us prefer a bit of familiarity. a first meeting is often also just a continuation of the screening process no matter what fun might be had.

1. Most providers are actresses. They don't really like you.
2. If you can't read her, you don't notice, so you enjoy yourself.
3. If you learn to read her well enough to know if she is flipped, you will also know she's gonna puke the second you leave because you turn her stomach.
4. You might wanna think twice about learning too much.

Nothing narcissistic or grandiose about it; but you get extra points for spelling.

But, but, but. I thought. I. Ah, fuck!

... and in that case, you'd know for sure!

But man, you know what I'm saying -- sometimes knowledge comes with a price and it isn't always an easy one to pay.

But the guy wanted to know how -- and I just gave him an answer.

However, you can find out more than is obvious via email as well. Just not THAT much.

What is the matter with you dude. Like Priapus said, your paranoid postings are annoying. If you are that paranoid, do self service.

I might be taking a big risk by being a serious party poopster, but... has anyone ever wondered, or worse, encountered, the thing beyond getting pinched? Violence. It's always an assumed risk any time you walk into a room you don't know, right?
When I lived in a 2nd Amendment believing state a few years back, hobbyists carried right to the doorway, and only when they were certain they weren't going to get stabbed or shot or robbed, did they politely ask the provider if she minded a hand gun in her place.

Where I live right now you’d get thrown in jail for three consecutive life terms for carrying. I suppose researching a provider the same way one does for authenticity helps, but are there there other concerns to avoid getting physically hurt?

Don't kill me... I'm just askin'!

Ooooh, I love to read.  I'm going to check into one or more of these books!  
Thanks

Still don't know WTF till they said 'which plays a role in sexual arousal and the "high" derived from certain recreational drugs'.

THOSE are terms I can relate to! Fuck yeah!!!

I'm just fuckin' withya! I know they dig the shit outta me!

And I know all about the price of knowledge. Ohhh, FUCK YEAH, do I know!

... is that with all those "9s" you have in performance, you are already pretty danged good at reading people on the fly. Of course, more knowledge = more power!  (*grin*)

I wouldn't say it was unique, but I've been lucky enough to meet certain ladies and gentlemen that have seen each other, or are 'tight' with each other, and wouldn't put each other in a compromising position, myself included.

I've turned a gent onto a lady or two, and the meetings went on swimmingly.

And I've seen ladies, that my screening was a VERY easy process, because so-and-so said I was cool.

I guess this example might seem abstract, even dangerous to some.

But there's a reason why I'm tight with certain people. Other than the fact they are interesting, fun to talk and be with, understanding and very knowledgable about many subjects other than the hobby, they put up with my shit!

My tactics are just fine, fuck you very much. I know goddam well what's going on out there and sucks to be you.

Maybe you should consider a change of scenery?

BTW, how much did they pay you when they filmed this?

Hope you got laid out of it, and not by your sister, you slanty-eyed-inbred-paranoid-banjo-playing-piece-of-shit!

Is that why giving a combination mind blowing blow job and ball licking/sucking feels powerful to me?
(*evil grin*)  That's one of the many times that I feel in charge and powerful!

You know what? Just the thought of bringing a firearm to a meet is disturbing enough.

WTF is wrong with you?!

If I'm going to Vegas, I know who I want to see. I CALL them and tell them when I'll be there. We make a date and time, and sure as shit, there they are.

If I play at home, I CALL her and tell her I want to see her. If she's not busy I'm there.

I don't see anybody that my 'circle' hasn't approved.

Fuck! How fucking hard is it?

In West Virginia if you marry your cousin, is she still your sister?

Dang, I'd forgotten how well I could dance back then! Especially when my Dad played the banjo!  Good times.  Rapin' those cityboys warn't bad either!
PS:  Q.  What do you call it when a hillbilly gets reborn?
      A.  Reintarnation.

I have first-hand knowledge of a lady without minimal reviews, I will stay with ladies who are proven courtesans, not flakes, ROB, B & S, C & D, etc.

The key is that your limbic system and drives are directly responsive to emotions and needs without first being filtered by your cognitive processing. In other words, it can't lie like your mouth can, because you can't insert your reasoning mind there.

That's not strictly true. A very well practiced person can pull off some levels of control there; though it isn't through insertion. However, these practiced levels of control can be rendered inoperative through indirect approaches, startling, distractions, sensory overload, etc.

As a harmless example of this, sometimes I have hypervigilance. This hypervigilance in a strange setting imposes a break on the the autonomic orgasm response. Basically, if you think someone's about to shoot/stab/electrocute you, an orgasm isn't happening as an orgasm entails a loss of sufficient control to respond to threats. Hypervigilance isn't quite that extreme as there isn't a specific threat; so it can be bypassed through distraction (the woman talking or providing an unusual visual) or sensory overload (something besides genital play).

The techniques used to fool someone by masking natural limbic responses are like this hypervigilance; and can be bypassed similarly.

Poker players -- good ones -- are very practiced at using conscious motor controls to mask underlying limbic responses. But this practiced control can be broken. The question is ... does the environment of playing poker provide the opportunity to do the things that could break it?

In ordinary situations, if you are clever and not an obvious threat, you can usually break that control without the person realizing you've done it. Then you can read them.

But this presents conundrums.

We are all aware of the "her mouth says no but her eyes say yes" scenario. What if her mouth says yes and other indications say no?

In the Washington DC area (Maryland, DC, Northern Virginia) with Maryland being the worst.

but just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that someone isn't out to get you.

There are places in this country right now, where a little paranoia might actually be a healthy thing.

I hope it is just a regional thing that soon passes, but exercising a bit more caution than usual is not a bad idea right now, especially in a couple of the "hot spots" of LE right now.

-- Modified on 11/27/2010 6:40:17 AM

That's great. How could anyone be offended by something so funny?

Good call.

& who made you a spokesman for "message board etiquette" ? You think you're Emily Post or something ?

If your "delicate sensiblities" were offended by my "tongue in cheek complaints", I suggest you lay down & have a whiskey sour & a Benson & Hedges cigarette-------

I started doing this back in the days of picking up steet-walkers in Bostons old Combat Zone. The concept of a "sure thing" was very aline to me and when the Boston Police department started setting up stings with female officers I stopped picking up streetwalkers and discovered the world of cyber hobbying.  Still never a sure thing but I've got a short list of reliable ladies and agencies that I don't worry about. I would add that Boston is definitely not as "hot" as some other parts of the country right now.  Not an excuse to let your guard down, just an observation.

All solutions to every problems takes hammer.

I know 4 people who have been busted. Two providers and 2 hobbyists. The providers have TER reviews. The hobbyists are TER members.

You are dwelling on this subject and keep referring to a war on the hobby with attention to high profile customers.  What city are you in so at least we can read the news and get educated. This stuff happens a lot in  Florida area Tampa bay area law enforcement just participated in a federal roundup targeting underage girls. Polk county has a sheriff that is very aggressive and has a bust every couple months.  It does not seam to slow down anyone even some off the girls arrested.  It kind of reminds me of the old saying “if you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen”

Besides, there's the old adage, "if you don't like what the person has to say, don't read his posts."  Like I said elsewhere in this thread, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read them.  If you don't like what a person has to say, just move on to the next message, because bitching and moaning about what the person has to say only make YOU look like an asshole.  (I am, of course, using "you" in the generic sense.)

Note that I am neither condoning nor condemning the OP's message(s), merely stating an obvious fact of message forums from the Beginning Of Time(tm).  This has been a public service message; we now return you to your regularly scheduled insanity, already in progress.

You're welcome, BTW. lol!!!  

Excuse me, Virginia Slim.

I forget some people's thenthetivity.... lol!

I followed your link to the news and board posting.  This was part of a nationwide rounup of suspected sex trafficing.  They were looking for sex slaves and underage providers.  We had 37 girls arrested in the tampa bay area.  In Polk county i think they got 45 girls and drivers.  The local cops took advantage and got some easy targets at the same time.  Since that weekend the has not been one prostitution arrest in the bay area.  If your sheriff has a arrest inquiry site you can check.  I dont care what the cops say after the fact they cant prove anything and would not bother unless they suspect you of being involved.

On this he might not be all that paranoid.... a lot of providers, hobbyists and board staff has been flipped in the past (some the recent past).... I wouldn't dub OP loony on this thread anyways.