If I got a vibe like she was new, diva-ish, and overpriced... I'd tell him to go for it. For this girl... NO. She sounds mature, successful, and professional. She's obviously a skillful marketer, AND compelling in person. Also, I'd wager, experienced and established (not new to the business, probably has a regular clientele)... or, at least she will be if she's the way he makes her sound.
As CDL said, this guy is playing a weak hand. Against (from what I gather) a very successful player. A woman who likely has a lot of demand for her services, and who values those services (and her time) very highly.
He's not an established client. He's someone who she met at a M&G who's expressed interest *IN PAYING HER FULL RATE* at least as far as she assumes. If he negotiates, he's telling her that 1) That he can't really afford her, and 2) he's not likely to repeat... at least, not at a rate that's comparable to what she's used to getting.
It depends on the girl and her specific financial situation... also, her maturity, what else she may have going on in her life (children? babysitter at home getting paid for the time she's away? Another job she needs to get to in the AM? An overnight the next night for which she'd like to rest up?), and many other factors.
I personally would tell this guy to shove it. There is a minuscule difference between my 4- and 6-hour rates, and My reaction would be: "Wow, there is no way he can't cough up a measly $XXX, especially after so many emails back/forth. He's playing games. F*** him." But that's just me, and where I am now. I don't even go to meet & greets, and I have zero recent review history... I can't imagine *I* am more successful that this girl who's so attractive, fascinating, and obviously aggressively/wisely marketing herself.
I have a question that might "arouse" some strong feelings (LOL!!) but here goes.
Later in the month I will be travelling to an area where there is a provider I truly would love to see on an extended hour date. I met her at a Meet and Greet and we must have talked for a half-hour on a variety of subjects--it was great. (VERY intelligent and perceptive woman, I thoroughly enjoyed our discussion.) Since then we have exchanged emails on a couple of occasions--we haven't had a chance to schedule anything yet but we've expressed a desire to do so.
So in a few weeks I'll be travelling to where she's located, and I would LOVE to book an extended date. I think we'd have an awesome time, and I would love to be able to perhaps have dinner, drinks and kind of pick up where we left off. In other words, I don't want to just rip my clothes off, bang away, and be done. I'd like a full evening where we can go at a relaxed pace, have dinner and drinks at a nice spot and continue to enjoy conversation. (I'll be on vacation so I'm going to be in a "go with the flow" kind of mindset.)
Now the thing is...she's very high class--and she's not inexpensive LOL!! I would LOVE to do a six hour date at her 4 hour rate--(which, while still being pricey, would really give me a great opportunity for a full evening.) Is it possible to negotiate?? Is this something I shouldn't even bother to pursue?? I certainly don't want to offend, however, I'm not quite in the Ferrari/Porsche league that some of these dudes are in--and I can't be quite so free-wheeling with the finances. I do, however, think we'd have a lot of fun and we'd enjoy talking almost as much as the "extracurriculars" LOL!! (I truly enjoy a woman with intelligence who loves to read---that is a HUGE turn-on!!)
OK--I've laid it out---have at it!! Is negotiating a possibility, or should I not even consider it??
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Hehehehehehehehehehehe!
Ooooooooooooooooooooh!
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Hope you have a great time.
Nuff said.
Oh Lord---I KNEW at least one person would get all pissy about it! LMAO! if you disagree, that's all well and good!! But listen, as long as I'm not being vulgar or disrespectful I will say what I have to say just like anybody else that posts here!! I'd bet if somebody told you to "shut up" after making a post you'd be ready to have his thumbs broken!!
We're adults here---(at least I think we are)--we're not going to always agree with what people have to say--but we need to respect the ability for a person to express himself.
but first you need to give us an idea about just how "High class" she is, and how much the difference between her 4 and 6 hour rate is. Her hourly rate for context would be helpful as well.
and are you REALLY surprised about the reaction you are getting, hookers have their Johns browbeaten into believing that ALL negotiating, or even thinking about it makes you a cheap ass time waster lower than something stuck to the bottom of their shoe, and even the Johns themselves have taken this attitude as I suppose they are accustomed to being abused by women after years of being stuck in loveless, sexless marriages. lol Not to mention the very thought of us all being "adults" here is laughable in itself. That said if you give me some context, I will try to give you some helpful advice.
Exactly. You don't go to work 8 hrs and get paid for 6 right?
wanting to live large, but I must say on this one, Mick took the words right out of my mouth. I have never attended any classes, because I already have my hooker PHD, but there is an online university here that can supposedly offer instruction in how to avoid paying the listed price. Just PM Jack, the Dean at JDU. Not sure how much the tuition is, but, ironically, its probably NOT negotiable.
JDU's founder is Kryptonite to hookers. You are setting the poor OP up for an epic fail. But maybe that's what you intended?
I think all the price-chiselers should stick together, so I think he deserves to be tutored by Jack, don't you? Lol
Modified to correct typo
-- Modified on 8/6/2017 6:02:32 PM
Jake is too scared, or too old, to negotiate but I am fairly certain he doesn't pay above MSRP like yourself. I mean, I HOPE he doesn't but I cant say for sure. LOL
But I can. Duncey can't read. Now go back and try again. I never said "I" don't negotiate. I said YOU are Kryptonite.
For God's sake man, TRY to keep up.
JD never said "you don't negotiate" he said you never pay "over" MSRP,
Come on Jake, keep the fuck up or get yourself someone to read these posts for you so you'll quit embarrassing yourself like this. Of course you don't actually get embarrassed no matter how dumb your post might be, you are too drunk or too obtuse to be embarrassed, kind of like your BFFs the Fatty twins. No matter how wrong you are, you just keep plugging along, refusing to admit the facts right in front of your face.
unless you want to plead guilty to selective quoting. What Duncey actually wrote was "Jake is too scared, or too old, to negotiate." He wrote that BEFORE he wrote the part about MSRP. That's saying I don't negotiate about as clearly as can be. Please stop embarrassing yourself like this. It is almost painful to watch.
Now go play with the fatty twins, if you can handle them.
Does she list a 6 hour rate? In my opinion you should pay her rate she is asking. Maybe while on your date for a future date you could offer the business opportunity to her. Leave it alone for now.
Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat her too..
any time that I have spent off the clock time with a provider, it was at the suggestion of the lady. And even then, I made sure to clarify the situation.
I also have learned to not take one OTC time as a precedent set. I always check, in a respectful and careful way, that each situation is understood. I once permanently lost the pleasure of an amazing provider's company, for thinking that her previous time management protocols were still in play. So now I will always check.
that come together to create OTC time, but I agree, don't be the first one to suggest it. Let her do it. Once the precedent have been set by her, then its okay to suggest subsequent outings occasionally. Just asking her because you want it is probably the worst thing he can do, as some of the providers have indicated.
Go see her for the four hour session. Be as affable and gentlemanly as you can possibly be.
When the four hour are up, make a comment about how you wish you could afford to stay longer, but alas, you must go.
Sometimes, if she is really enjoying your company, she will bade you to stay.
That's as good as it gets.
A great answer---that is probably the approach I will take!! Thank you, sir!!
Better lay the groundwork at halftime. He wants to wine and dine and converse before the main event. if he waits the full 4 hours, then he's liable to go home with his gun still fully loaded.
First, make it an evening date so that it's less likely she has anything planned for later (other than going home to her BF). After dinner and drinks mention how you'd love to do XYZ too, but time is running short and we should head to the hotel. This gives her ample opportunity to offer to extend (assuming you're not just looking for a 6-hour fuck-fest).
Alternatively, book a 2-3 hour fuck-fest in the late afternoon into early evening. When you're done making whoopie, mention you're starving and can't wait to get to a nice restaurant. If she wants to spend OTC time with you, she'll let you know.
Either way, she knows what you're asking for. As you said, she's intelligent and perceptive.
What do you have to lose?
is probably going to minimize the potential damage. I often piggyback outside time onto a two-hour session. Sex first, then dinner, and its most often agreed to at the prior session so we BOTH know to block off the time from our schedules. Pre-arranging is best because nothing makes me feel more stupid that having a provider suggest while I'm showering up that we go get something to eat together, and I already have a business appointment for after our session. That is a lost opportunity that may never come your way again. I just think there is no easy way to bring this up during a session for OTC after the SAME session, but your way has the best potential from what has been suggested here so far.
Great answer,
te]
Go see her for the four hour session. Be as affable and gentlemanly as you can possibly be.
When the four hour are up, make a comment about how you wish you could afford to stay longer, but alas, you must go.
Sometimes, if she is really enjoying your company, she will bade you to stay.
That's as good as it gets.
Great answer,
te]
Go see her for the four hour session. Be as affable and gentlemanly as you can possibly be.
When the four hour are up, make a comment about how you wish you could afford to stay longer, but alas, you must go.
Sometimes, if she is really enjoying your company, she will bade you to stay.
That's as good as it gets.
The hookers get that line all the time from guys who want to extend a session. Either pay for the fuckin six hour session or drop it.
Sure. Many things are possible. It's possible for example that Charlize Theron will show up at my front door tonight, grab me, and make mad, passionate love to me.
Possible, but not likely.
Just as it's not likely you will be able to negotiate with this provider without offending her... which you said you certainly don't want to do.
So don't do it. Pay her rate, or find someone within your budget.
She's ringing my door bell right now.
She wants me to teach her The Mouse.
Both you wrong, she is at my house putting lube on my strap on and invited two of her friends to join us.
Christine
You ask good question, but you will not like good answer.
Three possible out come. The first is she says fine and all go well. I doubt.
Second is she says fine, and you get 4 hour service for 6 hours. You want a six hour service with all bells and whistle then pay the rate. You want 6 hours for 4 hour rate, then accpet you may get less than the service you would get for 6 hour rate. Things like "ohhh my ass hurt to much do anymore anal" or "I have cramps let just relax a little" or " i think I drank too much my stomach upset" She just think you cheap charlie and give you cheap charlie service. This is maybe.
Third is more likely. She politely say no thanks and marks you on her list as cheap charlie anyways. And no matter if ever you book with her she will not forget the first impression.
Yes as a provider first impressions are what we live by. But as a client your first impression on her is what marks you for many dates to come. You are no more special than we are.
Christine
on p4p. It's very refreshing. I also find your "first impression" comment most relevant, but I'm certain you're not old enough to have shopped at "Cheap Charlie's" ... a markdown/outlet clothing store in Philly back in the ?0s ...
I suggest booking her for four hours and letting her know (at the time you make the appointment) that you'd be happy to take her out to out to a nice dinner afterwards if she is hungry after all the good lovin'.
I've had countless requests along these lines. I've never accepted the dinner - but I've never been offended either!
I wouldn't suggest a nice dinner. I'd offer up something cheap, like an order of fries.
I suggest booking her for four hours and letting her know (at the time you make the appointment) that you'd be happy to take her out to out to a nice dinner afterwards if she is hungry after all the good lovin'.
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I've had countless requests along these lines. I've never accepted the dinner - but I've never been offended either!
Pay no attention to the spineless wimps who are telling you NOT to negotiate....lest she be offended.
If some hooker is offended when being offered thousands (I presume even at a 4 hour rate it's likely close to a couple grand) of dollars...then you dodged a bullet.
As for the big braggarts here who claim to tip hookers (like CDL)....I am sure he's driving something like a leased Kia.
Go for it pal...and pay no attention to those who would dissuade you for doing the right thing. Everything in this life is negotiable.
Certainly I wouldn't suggest you pay a nickel to any hooker to eat, sleep or shit (unless you're into that fetish...then go for it) on your dime. Pay for the sex only. If that (or any) hooker is offended that you won't pay her to eat/sleep/shit...oh well LOL
I'm quite certain this hooker will be more than happy to "entertain" you for 6 hours...and for a whole lot less than anything she publishes. You seem like you might have a spine and some intact balls...just toss it out there.
1 - OP why don't you follow the advice of this denigrating nitwit and better yet print his post off and use it as your guide, let her know what great advice you received from seasoned vets and let us know how that works out for you.
2- If you can only afford a VW stay away from the Ferraris
And I'm not even that kind of Doctor LOL
But first I like to pay them to eat, then I pay to watch them digest the food I bought them. Only then do I pay to watch them shit it out. Is that so wrong?
You’re not arguing that her rate is too high. You’re saying you can’t afford the amount of time you wish to book. If you go with that approach, I don’t think you will be successful and may be looked at as a time waster, squandering any goodwill you have built.
A successful negotiation is a win-win proposition. A better approach is to offer a tailored package that is not listed on her rate structure. If you’re creative enough and fair enough, her answer may surprise you.
An even better answer than Mr. Fisher's. WONDERFUL suggestion---thanks very much!! (I am already mulling some possibilities--and you're right--in the best negotiations everybody feels like they succeeded in getting what they wanted!!)
YOU know that there are many "successful negotiations" that are kinda win/kinda win. Perhaps you've never done a large deal, but I have had my share. Rarely does either party come away with what they are seeking...and often times one party is quite unhappy with the result. However...both parties generally will agree that it was better to come to terms and get something, versus nothing.
Many really don't know how to negotiate. Many simply throw down the gauntlet...and I submit that is indeed NOT a basis for negotiation.
In this world most hookers are rarely in a position to turn down a four figure offer. And even moreso towards the end/beginning of the month when that rent is due.
I suspect the OP is just tossing this scenario out to see how this thread may evolve. Hey...it's better than "my dick is bigger than your dick" is. Oh wait...you don't have a dick...do you?
Next OP should be about "Should I pay with fives and tens....I'm afraid to use anything larger"?
Even if we stipulate to your belief that all providers are motivated sellers, the type of session he seeks will likely not occur if she begrudgingly accepts his 6 for 4 offer. Even with spending less money, he will not like the result. You may scoff at the non-sexual aspects of an appointment, but they matter to the OP.
My win-win proposal gets him the session he wants at a price he can afford.
You are speaking for other women here now? Are you the new union head? LOL
Proud board member of SHTUP (Sisterhood of Harlots Tarts and Unified Providers)
I wasn't really expecting a real answer from you. LOL
Some would have went down the "girl would tank the session" but you have enough sense to know a real professional, as we probably both believe most girls are, wouldn't pull such hen house shit.
In my experience, a bad attitude on the part of the provider can turn a $500 session into a $200 session. You still get everything, but she's not really into it, just phoning it in for the rent money. Its one thing to chisel a car dealer. The salesman still gets a commission but you're not counting on HIM for the way the car performs. It is what it is. In a provider transaction, she is in control of the quality of the session from start to finish. I think knocking the price down, even if she agrees, is going to get you less than her best effort, and if I'm going to spend money on pussy, I want the best effort she has, or else I'd rather pass and try someone else.
Why don't you think a girl can accept an arrangement, bargained in good faith, and still provide a great service? Do you think she is a bad business person who is unable to make the best decisions for her particular situation?
Your immediate default position that she will have a "bad" attitude is frighteningly naive and ignorant.
I have negotiated many, many girls for countless dates and have never once experienced what you state. Why in the world would I want to be with someone who is "phoning it in?"
Where are you getting this delusional notion from?
Just that she may have more effort to give if she wasn't discounting, but you won't know it, and it still might be a good session by your standards. Its kind of like fucking a civvie girl who is still mad at you. You're her boyfriend, so she will still give you sex, but you know something is off. A real pro will not let you know she is not giving her best effort. Most of them are academy award quality actresses. I just think human nature kicks in the a provider would be thinking to herself, why should I give the same session to a discount-hound that I gave to the nice guy that didn't question my rate. Its a subtle difference and you may NEVER see it if you are ALWAYS getting discounts, because then you have no baseline for comparison. Its like the guy who's perfectly happy with that nice flank steak he's eating because he's never gotten a ribeye, so he thinks what he's got is as good as it gets.
Do you really think I started out as a newb negotiating my ass off? I cant most assuredly tell you I did not. In fact, I bought into the bullshit back then that "hookers don't negotiate." I came to find out that was a lie.
I didn't start negotiating until I had been seeing escorts for years. I also don't negotiate EVERY date now, but I do when and where I see fit to. So that would destroy your "I have no baseline" argument.
Be honest with me CDL.
Who do you think would be a better judge of this? Someone like myself, who has TONS of experience on BOTH sides of this issue, or you, someone who has only viewed this issue from your inexperienced, one sided vantage point?
I have never asked a girl for a discount off of her posted rate, and I won't repeat the reasons a twenty-seventh time. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. I can afford to TOFTT, so if it wasn't worth it, I just won' repeat, but I don't want to be sitting there post-mortem wondering if it would have been better had I NOT asked her to discount her rate, so I just don't go there. We will continue to disagree, but after 600+ providers in the relatively short nine years I have been in the hobby, I have a solid sense of what works best for my style. I won't change. I'm having too much fun.
How you hobby is none of my business.
I just like to point out that there are different ways to play this game, and to educate others what is possible, so they can make up their own minds as to what is best for them.
My first thoughts are why in the hell a guy would want a six hour session with a girl he's never met. Even the girl might not want that.
If you negotiate an extended session with a girl who knows and kinda likes you I think she will probably give her best. Negotiating with a girl you have never met means that you probably won't get her A game.
question for the OP on this thread. . . . . who would book six hours with a new girl they haven't met, no matter what others said about her. I have had some two-hour initial sessions that SEEMED like six hours because I couldn't wait to get out of there, and often did just that, left early.
question for the OP on this thread. . . . . who would book six hours with a new girl they haven't met, no matter what others said about her. I have had some two-hour initial sessions that SEEMED like six hours because I couldn't wait to get out of there, and often did just that, left early.
I know how you feel about wanting to leave early when the girl was not all that. That's what got me to stop seeing HDH types with more than one hour minimums. Not only are you out the extra money but then you need some excuse to leave early. It's very awkward.
I think you discount the fact:
She already negotiate a discount for extended hours (we assume since we not know who the OP talking about). Is that not a negotiation to begin with? Does that fact not have a point in this?
But really so much nobody knows. If the difference between 4 hours and 6 hours is 100.00 USD (and I have seen that before) her reaction may be very different than if difference is 500.00.
The OP said he want 6 hours for her 4 hour rate. Again we assume she has a 6 hour rate, only because the OP seems to think already there is one exist. The op sets a specific price point. He does not ask to negotiate 100.00 dollars less or 200.00 dollars less than her 6 hour rate, he says 6 hours for 4 hour rate. If the difference between the two is 500.00 then thats a big jump. But if the difference is 100.00 then again a different thought may occur.
Finally we also don't know both the OP and the providers own personal schedule. The provider may be have a family or child or SO and the time the OP request is cut directly into that time. We don't know how it affects either of them, the OP may only be available certain times and not consider being flexible.
Yes you can negotiate anything, but honestly if you comparing negotiating with a hooker the same as multimillion dollar business deal then you giving hookers way too much credit for the MOST.
Christine
I think if its a girl who's six-hour rate is only $100 more than her four-hour rate, then he should also start a course of antibiotics a few days prior to the session, just to get a jump on the potential outcome.
also 2 condom and dental dam
Christine
Based on what the OP wrote he is looking for closer to 4 hours of non-BCD time...hence, I would only offer her 2 hour rate. I believe the OP is asking if he should/could offer a 6:4 deal.
And if you are now going to stipulate that a hooker who is promoting her services isn't a "motivated seller"...then I clearly don't understand as to why she (or you) is placing ads for her services.
I don't scoff at the non-BCD aspect of P4P. I scoff at the dudes who want to pay a hooker to eat/sleep/shit and get paid for it as if she's sucking his cock, or taking it up the ass. I wholeheartedly believe any trick that wants sex should pay for that service. BUT not if all he's looking for is a friend for hire to listen to his babble. However, as has been posted ad nauseum on these boards there is no shortage of lonely old men willing to pay for someone/anyone to listen to them.
If that lonely old man is the OP...then I agree with your prior comment/s. If he is seeking a P4P at a price commensurate with an offer that some hooker is interested in taking...then it's indeed a win/win. And I submit that many of the hookers in HookerLand will gladly take up that offer.
I certainly don't expect many hookers to publicly acknowledge that they would however. But it is far more common than you suggest. But I don't expect you to acknowledge that either. C'est la vie
The 6 for 4 offer was attributed to the OP, not you. I also suspect you understand my use of the term motivated seller in the context of negotiation.
And even if some providers would jump at the offer as you suggest, my proposal minimizes the risk of uncertainty.
I'm 100% certain you do
Because as has been noted in may threads by now, there is a real divergence of opinion regarding whether to pay to take someone out for a nice dinner. I think rasha and the doc above have put you on the right path - if you suggest 2 hrs before and 2 hrs after dinner on the clock with a nice dinner off the clock (as for the sake of discussion you fall into the camp of not paying to take someone to dinner) in between, especially since you two hit it off previously, I think there is a 95% chance you will get the answer you want. Since this would be an evening gig, she won't likely have plans with anyone after you so OK, maybe a 90% chance of success... but still those are odds I'd take and the worst she can say is 'no.'
I had seen her 4 or 5 times and then timorously asked if she would be interested in a some sort of package deal. She was fond of me, so interested, and we agreed (I insisted) that it should not be done in person, where emotions could get in the way, but in writing by email, and that she should only agree to it if I could make a business case for her.
So, cutting to the end: We agreed on a "punch card" system, in which I would pay for 8 hours at a time, up front, usually used as four 2 hour appointments. Her hourly rate was $500, and I ended up with 8 hours at $350/hour, so I got a 30% discount (although only a 25% discount off her 2 hour rate) and she got $2800 up front and a VERY steady repeat customer, as well as the time value of cash up front and some predictable income in a business that can be highly variable in terms of cash flow.
She gave a discount for the up front cash and I assumed some risk that she would flake out on me. She never did, and I once sent her $2800 when I KNEW she was going on a 2 month break, because I knew she couldn't work and could use the cash. There was a level of trust that was very unusual, but she never took advantage of me, and we had great times together. I think the mutually beneficial arrangement negotiation actually strengthened things between us, because neither party was trying to exploit the other.
So, Rasha88 is absolutely on point. If you have a lady who is special to you, remember that this is her BUSINESS, and give her a --reason-- to negotiate something that is not on her listed rates. Not cheaper, but different, and better for you both.
Once again, rrasha confirms she is the most intelligent lady here, in addition to having an amazing sense of humor!
You actually stated what you should do with her in your OP. "Rip off your clothes, bang away, and be done." If you want to meet a women that likes to read, visit your local library.
My very old and wise instructor warned us that we were acquiring skills and knowledge that friends and relatives would find useful and want us to perform at reduced (or free) rates because they were our "friends and relatives."
He merely flipped it around and asked us that if it is an obligation of friends and relatives to sacrifice for their friends and relatives, shouldn't they pay us more than others! After all, we're their friends and relatives too.
Escorts, clients, rates, OTC, friends, lovers, spouses -- it all comes down to quid pro quo. Even in a marriage there should be quid pro quo. If you want OTC, what value do you bring in exchange? (Or if you shower her with gifts, what are you getting out of it?)
not this time. Well stated. Quid pro quo is an excellent way to desccribe the relationship with a hooker. Sometimes, its strictly about pussy and money, and other times there are additional intangibles involved that motivate one side of the other to do some differently.
When it comes to multi-hour dates, the difference between a 4- and 6- hour date would usually be fairly minimal, at least compared to her hourly rate.
If she's popular, and busy - and also, if she has a life outside of "working" - then it's unlikely she'd agree to this. And yes, you'd sour what had previously been an excellent and very promising provider-client dynamic. It might even get you placed on her Do-Not-See list. (Of course, there's a very slim chance she may agree... but do you want to take that chance? That's for you to decide)
Just because you can't afford the longer date, doesn't mean you're entitled to more time. Just because *you* feel that you two have a great rapport, doesn't mean that she'll want to spend time with you, uncompensated.
Generating interest on the part of new clients, and building a rapport, is part of her JOB. It's likely that many hobbyists feel the same as you (that is why she can command such high rates) and they probably pay the full amount. (Why should she be rewarded with LESS money when she's done so very well at the marketing aspect of her JOB?)
Likely many hobbyists feel just as tempted, but can't pay the full rate, just like you... so, they see her for a shorter date, or they don't see her at all.
Find some way to pay her the full fee,vsee her for the shorter date, or save up.
(Mr. Fisher's advice is probably the best IF you decide to try to go the negotiating route, BUT... please don't say something passive-aggressive, like, 'Oh, gosh, I wish you didn't have to leave. I'm free all night!!' She'll see through it in a second, and yes, it will make you THAT GUY who books 4 hours with the express intention of staying, by any means possible, forEVER). Just accept if she's open to or offers more social time, without pressing, hinting, or otherwise trying to coerce her. )
How would possibly know there is a "very slim chance she may agree?" How do you know what other girls outside of your knowledge?
You and I have had good discussions in the past, and I think you know I respect you, so I really look forward to your response.
If I got a vibe like she was new, diva-ish, and overpriced... I'd tell him to go for it. For this girl... NO. She sounds mature, successful, and professional. She's obviously a skillful marketer, AND compelling in person. Also, I'd wager, experienced and established (not new to the business, probably has a regular clientele)... or, at least she will be if she's the way he makes her sound.
As CDL said, this guy is playing a weak hand. Against (from what I gather) a very successful player. A woman who likely has a lot of demand for her services, and who values those services (and her time) very highly.
He's not an established client. He's someone who she met at a M&G who's expressed interest *IN PAYING HER FULL RATE* at least as far as she assumes. If he negotiates, he's telling her that 1) That he can't really afford her, and 2) he's not likely to repeat... at least, not at a rate that's comparable to what she's used to getting.
It depends on the girl and her specific financial situation... also, her maturity, what else she may have going on in her life (children? babysitter at home getting paid for the time she's away? Another job she needs to get to in the AM? An overnight the next night for which she'd like to rest up?), and many other factors.
I personally would tell this guy to shove it. There is a minuscule difference between my 4- and 6-hour rates, and My reaction would be: "Wow, there is no way he can't cough up a measly $XXX, especially after so many emails back/forth. He's playing games. F*** him." But that's just me, and where I am now. I don't even go to meet & greets, and I have zero recent review history... I can't imagine *I* am more successful that this girl who's so attractive, fascinating, and obviously aggressively/wisely marketing herself.
You really DON'T think those girls that would fit that description to a "T" negotiate? Again, how could you possibly know that? You cant Voo-doo so please stop telling us you do. You can ONLY tell us what YOU do.
You have NO idea what other girls do bcd with their rates. Do you negotiate with other girls? I am going to go out on a limb here and say no. So of the two of us, I am the only one that negotiates with escorts, and often, so how you would possibly know more about this than me makes zero sense.
Maybe you would tell this guy to shove it but I can tell you from first hand experience that many girls would not, as many would entertain an unpublished rate that may line her pocket with $1500 or more, as opposed to the zero she would get if she had nothing else lined up.
I am actually shocked the difference between your 4 and 6 hour rate is only $300. Am I reading that right or did you mean $300/hour? I can tell you that with many high end girls, the difference between those 2 time frames can be approaching or exceeding $1k.
I wish the guys and girls here would speak on things they personally know and know well, rather than to spout off on things that have NO experience with.
Girls have many reasons to negotiate and many do so on a daily basis. They do so because they believe it benefits them to do so. For anyone here to state otherwise is naive and ignorant to what really goes on in p4p.
Thanks for your reply and I do respect it, even though I vehemently disagree.
So you're also spouting generalities about something you have no experience with I could be wrong, but I had the impression that the lady described by the OP was NOT an inexperienced young'un.
And, by $XXX I meant a few hundred - not $300 (although, my multihour rates ARE very attractively priced. I guess that's why I book a lot of them, without having to offer discounts). The difference is VERY cheap compared to what my hourly rate would be. The 6-hour date is not significantly higher, percentage-wise, than the 4-hour one.
As for not knowing anything about negotiating? I entertained negotiators (i.e. 1 or 2 paid hours, plus dinner after for free) when I was younger, and I DID resent being asked. I NEVER see those clients any longer, and wouldn't. My financial situation was different then, as were my spending habits. In short, I was a terrible money manager. Youth, immaturity, inexperience, extravagant habits, lack of confidence, and lack of professionalism led me to those decisions. Thank goodness I matured, because I used to feel very put upon, very aggrieved, and very irritable in regards to my clientele. And, very stressed out about time and $$. Although, actually, looking back on it, I only had a few troublemakers... in my mind, they kind of loom large and define how I remember the entire experience of being a young, newly independent little baby-hooker. Hmm, that's a shame.
The honest AND "in the know" types here know damn well negotiations take place in this realm and many, many times per day.
For people who don't not wish to negotiate, good for them. It's their life and their money so they should do as they please. CDL wants to pay above the MSRP? Great! Go for it.
But many of us here know this game can be played quite differently than what the herd mentality would want you to believe.
The girls here who claim it cant happen or it never happens, I get it. They feel like they are protecting their business model. So you wont get honesty from them as you wont get honesty what is "possible" with many businesses IRL.
It's the jealous and know nothing guys that cry about what others do bcd with a gal re: her rate that always befuddle me.
Just don't listen to the people who have never done it then claim they know how bad it will turn out for the guy. They don't want to pay a higher rate for something than someone else and they get pissy when someone does. Human nature really.
Ever sit next to someone in a plane and find out they paid $199 for the same flight you paid $499? Think that makes them happy? No, they get pissy and the green monster comes out.
Virtually everything in life is negotiable, so not sure why p4p would be any different. I can tell you this; there are no lack of "experts" here who will tell you the girls will "tank" a negotiated session or make up some other nonsense about shit they know NOTHING about.
Girls tend to do what is best for them, but again, many here think that THEY know what is best for the girl at that particular time and date in her life. LOL
The honest people here will tell you otherwise, just don't expect ALL of them to admit it in this forum.
...your hand is very weak. You have never spent time with her. You have no "bond", no "chemistry", no "hisory", no nothing you can offer her other than less money. Losing proposition.
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You like her, Be A Gentleman. .xoxo
Go ahead and tell him what you think. Lol
I wouldn't advise negotiating...it will start you off on the wrong foot with her and even if she agrees to a deal she may resent you which could affect your session.
If I were you I would simply book 4 hours and start it off in the bedroom. If she likes hanging out with you I'm sure she won't mind going out to dinner with you after. I wouldn't ask directly but allow her to offer.
Contrary to popular belief not all of us are quick to negotiate for a large sum of money. I'm generally happy with making a certain amount and after making it I don't take inconvenient appointments or work when I don't feel like it.
Agreed. Even if resentment is not intended in the beginning, it happens. It definitely happens.
in your personnel life as well as here.
You only get one chance to make a first impression.
It is also wise to remember that providers are women and sometimes women can get emotional about certain things. Enough said.
I have done multiple four hour dinner dates. EVERY time the dates have lasted 5 hours plus. A few weeks ago I arranged a 4 hour dinner date while traveling. The lady showed up at seven, we played a little, headed to dinner for 8:30 reservations, then back at hotel close to 11, and she left my company around 12:30. That's 5 hours and 30 minutes. There was no additional exchange of money beyond the 4 hour dinner date fee. She viewed me as her date for the entire evening and we enjoyed an extremely carefree /relaxing time.
Don't forget, in this setting, the lady is choosing to spend her entire evening with you. She's not looking at the clock trying to get rid of you because she has to hustle for her next appointment. Your her date for the evening and those women that offer dinner dates are happy to enjoy your company and treat it as a regular "civilian" date.
So if you can't afford her 6 hour date fee, then just book her 4 hour fee. I would be very surprised if your date didn't flow into 5 hours (and you'll have paid her for 4). This should be a sufficient amount of time for you to enjoy her company.
As an Independent provider,
not affiliated with an Agency or Assistant,
I make the decision as to what and who I am going to do on any given day.
If you cannot talk with the provider, personally, I believe negotiating is out.
I know you want to keep as much of your money as possible. It is important to you.
A lot of the time, my comfort is more important than the money.
I can think of a lot of things that make me comfortable.
I would not recommend negotiating before a first date. I am not able to successfully negotiate, when I don’t know what ALL is on the table. If I know someone and they want to become a Regular, there are negotiating topics that I consider for pricing.
Time of Day?
Hours of Session?
FS?
CBJ?
BBBJ?
CIM?
Ass or No Ass?
Are you an Asshole?
Elaborate Outfit or Not?
Exquisite Long nails or Not?
BodyRub length of time or none?
Incall or Outcall ?
If Outcall , what is the distance?
Parking/Toll Fees?
___________________________
Then there’s just EASY clients. Meaning, to pass them up would be kind of stupid.
It takes as much effort to do them as it does to bend over and pick the bills up off the floor.
Negotiating does not have to be bad thing and of course it is happening.
There are many good books on the Art Of Negotiating.
I understand negotiating. I do not take it as a personal insult.
Just be careful not to negotiate your way into a higher fee.
....I don't have a 4hr or a 6hr rate. I just have a dinner date rate.
Dependent on a multitude of factors the dates generally run between 4 and 6 hrs. Just as an overnight generally runs between 12 and 15 hours.
Men that know what they are doing and don't want to offend/find themselves in an awkward situation will almost always outline how they have planned the evening. It allows me to say no if I wish. The same with overnights.
I'm prepared to show some flexibility if you show you are not taking the piss as a result. It's not hard. I can't believe there is a 75 thread post on the difference between a short dinner date and a longer one. Incredible.
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Lots of advice here and a lot of speculation.
I would try. Lay it all out for her. Be frank and honest. If she is a professional, as has been suggested, she may be flexible in her prices. Since the OP says this is not necessarily a ongoing relationship, what is there to lose in all honesty? If she is mature there should be no 'backlash'. If she acts irresponsibly just move on.
Frankly I would try it and, if successful, report back here just to provide a sanity check for others.
...for the purposes of negotiating a rate. If you've FUCKED her, and she likes you as a client, then you can bring up the subject. She doesn't know who the fuck you are - why should she give you a discount? Maybe she doesn't want to spend four hours with you, let alone six.
You think she remembers your brilliant repartee at the M&G? Dude, providers go to M&Gs to reel in the fish. You're on her hook and you aren't even wriggling.
...for the purposes of negotiating a rate. If you've FUCKED her, and she likes you as a client, then you can bring up the subject. She doesn't know who the fuck you are - why should she give you a discount? Maybe she doesn't want to spend four hours with you, let alone six.
You think she remembers your brilliant repartee at the M&G? Dude, providers go to M&Gs to reel in the fish. You're on her hook and you aren't even wriggling.
Many girls I've talked to HATE meet and greets but will go to them because it's free advertising and they "reel" in tricks from M&Gs. Maybe the sap thought he could get a discount because of his dynamic personality. lol
You may lose the opportunity to see her at all.
I would be offended and politely decline and put you on my DNS list, if you made an attempt to negotiate rates, especially on a first date! If you later agreed to pay the full fee for the 6hr date I would still decline, as the tone has been set and I wouldn't want to meet someone who doesn't think I'm worth my fair price. Yes, I personally have done this. Even if rent was due. I just couldn't see you, as I would have lost all respect at that point and wouldn't be up for pretending to like you for 6hrs.
You know she is what you are looking for, you aren't gambling with chemistry, like you would with another lady. Is the risk worth it?
Time is money. No matter what we are doing.
She has already invested in otc time with you, in emails and 30min discussion at m&g, then to be rewarded for that with a discounted offer is not what gentlemen do. Not the ones I see anyway.
Still want to do it? The least disrespectful way imo would be to book the 4hr date, and along with that request, ask her if she has a different rate for public time, and state that you would like to buy her dinner, as well, in addition to the 4hrs for private time. Let her take it from there and drop it immediately and don't be offended, if she says no.
Good luck!
I respect your reasoning, makes sense. Thanks for this post. Great suggestion at the end. As long as she doesn't already have a different rate for public time listed on her site. Then it could backfire, LoL. Good idea though.
that was in my regular rotation for almost two years that worked her way through four years of college by providing. If you were an established customer (not first time), and booked two hours at her $400/hr rate, she would allow two hours of social time at $75 hour. Because of her classes, she only saw one customer each evening. She was very popular as a result. I'm surprised that more girls don't offer his option to encourage two hour sessions.
BTW, when graduation came, she made the classiest exit from the business I have ever seen. I got her a job interview in London that summer which worked out for her, so we still stay in touch, but she hasn't let me back into her pants as a thank you. Lol
because nothing good ever, ever comes from a thread like this.
If you don't want to pay someone's rates, move on. If she doesn't have a package option for people who want extended dates, you may ask her about that.
For what she probably charges for 4-6 hour sessions, you could probably pay for much of a 1-week mongering trip to Latin America and fuck 2-3 different hookers every day. I used to do almost all of my mongering in the U.S., but I have increasingly been going south of the border instead.
The women down there are much hotter and much better in the sack than the women here.
You met her at a MnG; those usually happen only a few times a year, even in major cities. In places like Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, and Colombia, picking up independent hookers in person at hotels, bars, clubs, and other venues and then bringing them back to your hotel or apartment or a short-time hotel to fuck them is standard procedure. “Meet and greet” happens all the time there.
Independents' rates are a) much cheaper than here and b) negotiable, albeit usually within a fairly standard range. The savings on extended dates, relatively to the 1 hour session baseline, are even better. Typically, a hooker in these countries will do an overnight session (“toda la noche”) for about twice whatever she wants for a 1 hour session. Here are some typical prices that I have paid:
Costa Rica: 1 hour - $100; overnight - $200
Dominican Republic; 1 hour – $44; overnight - $88
Colombia; 1 hour - $50; overnight - $100
I would advise having just 1 hour sessions at first, shop around for the rest of the trip until you find the one that you like best, and then spend your last night with her. You can also offer to extend a first session into an overnight, if it is going well.
Costa Rica is best if you do not speak Spanish. Colombia has the best women by far, out of any country that I have ever visited, but you really should speak Spanish, because hardly any of the hookers there speak English.
and want her to pay you for your wasted vacation time? Curious minds want to know....
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When all is said and done, it’s all a bunch of BS sweating someone else’s vanity. With that said, it's also relative when taking a basic human desire /instinct and making it into a status quo. Just be an upfront nice guy in the asking, and if you get crap about negotiating the price, then it's probably more trouble than it's worth. Best you'l best move on to the next.
-- Modified on 8/9/2017 2:01:56 AM
she'd LOVE to do a 4 hour date at her 6 hour rate. And while I empathize with your position on negotiating, it's a dangerous term to toss around here LOL.
It seems that you had an opportunity to bring up the conversation at the M&G. You could have bought her a drink and excused yourself to check her rates. If a gal invests 30 min with you at a M&G, she's telling you she wants you or your money in no uncertain terms. Escorts go to M&Gs for new clients, not free drinks.
I went to my first M&G as a last minute guest and my ATATF was there. Not being on the attending list, she was quite surprised to see me there. And a bit uncomfortable. She worked the room like no one else and it really turned me on. I couldn't wait to fuck her again and she knew it.
Fortunately, she had already made me a OIAL offer that I couldn't refuse. And I didn't. But the ball is in her court. Always.
Be creative, broach the topic by mentioning her 6 hour rate is a bit out of you range at the moment, but could she be creative on a 5 hour rate. That's a soft sell and allows her to stay in control. You'll find out safely if she's interested in "negotiating" by not negotiating. If you or your money turn her on, you may be in for a pleasant surprise.
BTW ... her website might give you some guidance on her tolerance for negotiating. Follow it. Just remember there's a huge difference between negotiating and asking her if she can be creative with something not listed on her site.
Ok we have providers who call themselves business women. Well how many of us are business men, I know myself that I am.
There are two sides to this business coin provider & hobbyist. This is what reality tells us.
I see people talk about you want a discount, what is the difference of getting a discount on something you buy at the store. It is the same thing. I am sure some will not like this view, they can have their opinions and their entitled to them.
If he strikes out on his negotiation well next moving on. It is really that simple folks.
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and by and large most of the guys buy into this bullshit. Like you I am a businessman too and I charge a LOT more than a hooker, I don't consider it rude or disrespectful at all when people negotiate with me. In my business I actually expect it, except of course when oil is at over $100 bbl and I am literally turning down work. I still don't find it insulting, I just say no.
I guess men are so used to being emasculated and browbeaten by their wives they simply accept it from all other women in their lives including hookers. Personally I rarely negotiate when in this country, but that's because hooker rates are so reasonable in my part of the country and it's easier to simply skip past the girls who suffer from GPS than it is to try to get them to lower their rates back into reality. OTOH I see a LOT of Sugar Babies and it's almost always a negotiation with them.
Gag,
For as long as will be men with money to spend, will be women who are happy they spend on her. Of course we try teach you its rude and disrespectful, its our job. To expect anything else is silly.
Christine
My last p4p reach out for 650 for 4 hrs, her offer .... She charges 4oo/hr. She claims she is in top 100.
I agree nv try to negotiate a providers rate to get more for your money,bc that appears to be what your trying to do here...Shes obviously a great companion,which is why her donations are as high as they are.I understand you connected with her.However if the connection was that strong..why would you pay her anyless than shes requiring...isnt that a paradox?I like you but not not enough to give you what you expect .Your budget issues shouldnt become her issues.Of you only have a certain amount to spen...then do what you can afford to do and stop trying to be greedy..when what your trying to FULLY get isnt something you can fully afford for the time being
If you were going to do that why don't you just ask if she has platonic rates?
But don't expect sex
I agree with someone who posted that you will get different service. I think that is something that is a VIP park, and if she is pricing herself for certain market, and that market is coming, she's likely to take them over you. Especially if she's low volume. However, I know I have been asked for platonic only. Which is social only time. I've constructed rate structures that are still going to get me to show up, but it's with clients who have proven to be somebody that I like And I think social only requests seems to be a way around that. Just make sure that you don't expect any BCD time if that's how you go about it
Now, these guys actually offered the full rate as well. But I created a different package, and used it as a creative VIP thing for regulars who don't always want to be tied to the bedroom.
So I got a benefit out of it too.
Before anybody says there is not a market for this, there is most definitely a market for social only time.
If you can't control what's in your pants I would just book the four hour, and do two hours in & two hours at dinner.
If you guys really hit it off after a couple of paid four hour dates, who knows? She might offer you something. But you kind of have to show her she can enjoy you for four hours and not just prove it by a half hour conversation and some texts. (She's already given you free personal attention as well...)
There's always that one person who doesn't fit the bill of what the unwritten rules are in this business, however, if you really want this provider to like you, would just book 4 hour dates. If it's offered, you'll know. There will be opportunities to discuss things naturally without coming across as a haggler. Hagglers, it's not only about money with Hagglers. Any haggler I have seen has ended up being a huge gossip. So for me, the win-win is social only or just do the four hour date. I did that deal free OTC time for two years, and looking back, it's not often that turns out very well. Again especially because if she decides to say no the next time that usually results in backlash and gossip, broken hearts, these guys get attached. Free OTC blurs the lines and I do not recommend it for anyone.
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Before anybody says there is not a market for this, there is most definitely a market for social only time.
I did that deal free OTC time for two years, and looking back, it's not often that turns out very well. Again especially because if she decides to say no the next time that usually results in backlash and gossip, broken hearts, these guys get attached. Free OTC blurs the lines and I do not recommend it for anyone.
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I'm afraid so. Guys pay for "sex on demand" because you would have to be a rock star or a billionaire to have this much pussy available.
Saps pay for "companionship" because normal guys have a social circle of family and friends to share lively conversation and other hobbies with.
Hey Court,
I have no problem with you raking in money from weak minded SAPS and PLs.
Worked out pretty well for me.
And I don't gossip...but you knew that as well
I don't get offended when men try to negotiate.
One of my best experiences was with a man who wanted me to drop $50 off my price, but he sounded cute on the phone so I okayed it. And when he showed up, he was the HOTTEST man I have ever been with! And he ended up tipping me back the amount I took off the price anyway, making me feel like a queen
Best bet is to never negotiate, and if you want something badly enough then save up for it... but if you ask very sweetly it may not hurt. Just try not to bruise her ego when you ask.
I would just see her at her 4-hour rate, perhaps forego dinner out and order room service to save some time. 4 hours is a lengthy date and I doubt you will feel rushed.
The only negotiating I would do in this scenario is where some providers require out of room time after 3-4 hours; tell her you'd prefer a quick drink or room service to dinner out. I would say this is more likely than you getting 2 hours free because if she wanted to see men for 6 hours at a 4 hour rate, she would be doing so.