...instead of looking for love in the civvie world. I have tried and tried, but it seems that the whole of the world outside our little hobbayland, people are cold and crazy-- what transpired on an outing last night made me see this.

To make this short as possible: last night, I decided to go out with a guy I had met through some longtime friends. He seemed nice, and stable, but all that flew out of the window by the ending of the evening. We started out at a nice restaurant right by the beach; nice food, nice view, nice conversation; he seemed normal enough. As the night went on we began to talk about work some. And as I am open about what I do I told him and he seemed ok with it, but then came the perverted questions-- things I would rather not discuss over dinner, and things I would hardly like to bring up with someone I barely know. Besides when I am not at work I leave work where it is, just like any other professional. So, as I sensed the night beginning to take a wrong turn, I tried to wrap it up early and have him take me back to my hotel. He started in with cheesy lines and telling me how great I am and how pretty I am, and that was really my cue to exit. It went downhill form there...

So as we waited for his car to come around, he tried to hold my hand and other things. And he asked me if I was sure I was sure I wanted to go back to my room, telling me I can go back to his house, and inviting me for a drink. And I assured him numerous times that I was wanting to retire for the evening, but he would not take no for an answer-- he insisted...

When we got to the parking structure he wanted to "talk" for a while before I went up, to which I responded that we have been talking the entire night, and I was tired. But he had the doors locked form his side of the console. So I tried, as nice as I could to explain that I wasn't going to go any further than we had thus far, but he didn't get it. He started in on telling me that I should let him come up, that I could make a little "extra money" (taking from our dinner conversation) for my sisters birthday, or to help me move to LA, proceeding to pull 200 dollars out his wallet. Now mind you, he hadn't even been drinking, he was just an ass, he then says, "...come on you know want to do it anyway, but we can just bypass everything else and you can do it now, and make some money". I told him, I didn't want his money, and to let me out because I was tired, his response was "come on, just for a little while, I will have fun.... infact why not just do it just because, you like me right? I mean you sell it, why cant you just give it away?" he then took my hand and tried to place it on his crotch...  at which point I lost it.... I grabbed his hand and told him to let me out, that I was for playing at this anymore.... then all of a sudden, I became all sorts of ugly bitches, and dumb whores, and trashy bitches, and anything in the book he could have called me... all because I didn't want to sleep with him...

Needless to say, I just went back up to the room and went to sleep, but honestly, I am done with civvies for a very long time. I have had wonderful, positive, and productive relationships with men I have met from work, but they usually don't work because of distance, or time, or obligations. But I have never had any problems with them, they are usually very open, and enthusiastic about what I do (plus I know they can keep up with my sexual appetite). And its not like I need a relationship but, and I hate to sound so vulnerable, I like having someone at my side, I hate being alone, its a habit I have had long before I began working, and its a very destructive one that I need to learn to get over... because it seems the good ones are few or taken....

Dani

That's like telling someone you don't know you're
a CIA spy.  Of course they are going to want to
ask a ton of questions.  You keep this kind of
profession secret until you know the person
better.

Do your longtime friends know of your profession?
If so, you need to tell them what an ass this
guy was to you.

Danielle

Your comments struck me and I want to share some thoughts with you, but not in public view

You've got mail

I need to drop all three

1.Derek--someone from high school, use to hang out with me and watch tv, now he calls me up all the time asking for money and offering to send me people he owes money to.

2. Jason---tells his family and friends, some are still very nice to me, some are an ass. Always hints at how we should eat out more and then comes up short when the bill arrives (He does some heavy lifting for me but I don't see him break a sweat)
3. R.....- a guy who wants to tell me how to spend my money and how we can open a business together that he would enjoy and split everything 50/50. Also wants to help me find dumb girls from college of charleston to be in his escort service where they get a small cut

What an ugly experience.  Not only for the moment it happens but for the moments it takes away in the future when your (my) head trips on it.  As a guy I don't get hit with the attempted date rape but other situations where the whole evening is shanghai'ed to a place I wouldn't buy a ticket to go.
 The thing you said that resonated with me so much was "I like having someone at my side."  So much of life is better when you can share it with someone else.  I tried match.com for about 3 years all together and they must have had a special barrel they kept 'em in that was labelled "Just for Beret."
 I finally started limiting my search to widows.  I figured if he up and died on her maybe she was at least reasonable to talk to.  Unless, of course, she killed him.  But even then, I thought maybe she had a good reason.  About that time I decided that at least with the hobby I could rent a nice experience (and that has been true) so I never finished checking out the widows.
 The only other thing I have noticed is that in Europe people tend to do things more in groups and maybe that is a better way to do the beginning parts of getting to know someone.
Hang in there.
B

Everyone's different, but this sounds a lot like many non-commercial social dates.  The couple is often on different pages in the script, and usually it's the guy who is several chapters ahead of the woman.

Dani, the guy's appetitie had been whetted and his interest piqued by your profession, and however clumsy and annoying he was in his dealings with you subsequent to your admission, I don't think you could have gotten much more different responses from most men.  Perhaps less persistence, but that's about it.

No matter what your elders told you when you were a kid, honesty ib NOT ALWAYS the best policy.  A simple fib like being self-employed or between jobs might have ben the wiser choice.  


"...the good ones are few and taken..."  You're starting to sound just like your civvie sisters.  That's one thing that drives some men to the hobby, at least temporarily.

Anyway, best wishes to yew.

What I have to say is the truth, and I think that mature and/or intelligent women who are honest will agree with what I'm going to state further in this post. If not, then they just want to belittle me on TER or kiss up to men in general.  

Danielle:  Men are still men, hon.  I don't care how nice they seem to be in the civvy world, the majority of them might be initially turned on by what you do in the bedroom for a living, but most will likely want something from you right away, having the misconception that just because you are a provider you must be a nyphomaniac.  And no, I'm not saying every man, so gentlemen please don't jump to conclusions or feel like I'm threatening those on TER because I'm not. But let's be real here. Yes! There may be those magnificent few that really feel it doesn't matter what a "lady" does for work, but that is few and far between the majority. I said the "majority of men", so I'm not attacking anyone here on TER.  Believe me! I've been married before and single again now for more than 24 years. I've seen quite a lot in and out of this profession and lived in other countries, too. That certainly doesn't make me an expert, but I feel I'm pretty coherent in stating that it still does make a difference to "most men."

No matter how we correspond on this board and in the company of a hobbyist in private, we are still "easy women" in the eyes of most people. And you know what, that's okay in the Profession, because it is only a fantasy and we can enjoy the time spent with a man and then get on with our personal lives, whatever those day-to-day things might be. I actually feel a lot of our clients/friends respect us more by not getting too personal with them, although there are always exceptions to the rule, and I have formed a few good friendships through this business. However, it is usually safer to keep some distance. That way, we don't judge others and they don't judge us (at least not in front of us -- wink). Some men might be able to disregard the fact that we will not have a monogamous relationship with them and accept our rationale of thinking: that we are unihibited, free women. However, the stigma will always be present in some form. Society, to include some women, have made it acceptable that men can screw anyone they want but women are still chastised for it.

I certainly hope that things will change for the better, but I do not see that happening in the near future. So, with that being said, I feel it's best not to tell civvy men about your work (at least not right away or unless you start having deep feelings for someone). I guess that is why it is easier for me not to be in a civvy relationship right now, because I don't want to lie to him -- call me old fashioned -- or cheat on him, nor do I feel the need for a constant companion right now in my life. Yes, I would not mind falling in love again, but I am also very comfortable in my own skin and being independent.

I enjoy the time and fun I have with my business friends, but I certainly do not expect anything to develop because of personal closeness or exchange of great conversation. I also am not trying to place a black cloud on this topic, but am merely being realistic for the decade in which we live.

May peace be with you, may comfort always know a place in your heart, and may confidence always lead you not astray. Wink!

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 3/27/2006 11:37:39 AM

...you are looking for!

-- Modified on 3/26/2006 6:01:57 PM

I know a thousand guys who would love to date a nice lady and, if given the hint that nothing more was going to happen, would ask if you'd like to go out again, give you a peck on the cheek and make sure you got into the elevator safely, and nothing more.  They are called gentlemen, and I would not like you to give up on them.....  That said, the guy you were with was a jerk and rude and ugly and disgusting....there is NO excuse for treating a lady like that.  None.  Zero.  MA

what is all the more galling is how he tries to turn your profession into a liability for you and at the same time inflates his own perception of his so called desirability.

Morgan and Ciara make very good points.

Seeing women in a provider/client way has a certain honesty that is at once as reassuring for both as it is enjoyable.

Men and women who meet this was and want to go one step further (as I have with Bev. Fisher and as Morgan has also done) thus do so from a position of mutual understanding and trust, if not equality.

a mature, honest, and intelligent post from a great lady.

That's why I/we love 'ya.
Don't you ever change!!

I, for one, am proud to call you a dear friend.

Just my opinion...
B

week is better for you.

one of the problems is that many "gentlemen", on knowing their lady was an escort, either wouldn't really want to potentially have a relationship with her, or would think that she has no standards, and therefore will put out anytime for anyone (which, evidently, this loser did with Dani).  Additionally, I have heard many providers I know say that many men who are interested in getting involved with an escort eventually become jealous or insecure.

Unfortunately, from the women *I* have known, many ladies in the biz aren't exactly the best relationship material either, for various reasons...some understandable, and some personal issue that they still need to overcome.

As such, the fact really is that YMMV.  There are good and bad everywhere.  There are good cive men and women, and good providers and hobbyists.  Being one or the other doesn't necessarily give you an advantage in the dating arena.  If you are involved with this sub-society of ours, though, it is likely easier at first to date someone in the business as well.  A provder would likely meet men who are more receptive to her being a provider in the first place.  However, in the long run, will they be any less jealous?  Will they be faithful?  A hobbyist may likely be happy dating a provider at first, but will the lady really be receptive to eventual civvie life, or losing the quick income of this business

Life is a trade off, regardless, and there are good and bad everywhere.  I wish there was a magic formula for any of us, but there isn't.

...we're not all like that.

Dani, sorry to hear you had such a bad experience trying to just have a date outside your work life.  I hope this has not soured you completely on all men, as there are good ones available, they like good woman are just hard to find.

This story made me pause and wonder on several fronts, first what it must be like to be a woman in this line of work and second, what do woman really want from men? I wonder, because I was recently at a strip club in LV, and met a dancer  with a great head on her shoulders. She was a single mom through her own decision, and was dancing primarily to generate income to put aside for her child. The more I spoke with this woman, the more fascinated and infatuated I was with her, as some of my own experiences in life mirrored hers. Did this mean that if I had grown up as a female and not a male that this is the direction my life may have taken? Now don't get me wrong, I adore woman, and whether they are erotic dancers, providers or corporate woman, I try and respect them all as human beings. But, I personally don't think I would be strong enough mentally to go through that type of life. Woman who are in this business have to be tough mentally to go through the daily rigors the occupation places on them, and I applaud them for it, no better yet, I adore them for it.

In any case not to digress, but the more I spoke with this woman the more attracted I was with her (and she was drop dead gorgeous on the outside), and I wanted to just take her in my arms and tell her everything would be ok. She seemed to be looking for a special person, a “good man” to take care of her and her family.  Dani used those exact words in her last sentence "all the good men are few or taken".  So is this what all women are looking for in life?  They don’t care about a man’s looks or his pocket book, but whether he is a decent human being.  I guess I am curious, because I want to believe this drop dead gorgeous female wanted me because I was a good man, and not for my money, because looks wise, I could never be in her league.  Anyway, sorry to steal this thread as I am just looking for a little clarity in this thing we call "searching for love".

...Im not as cheap a date as that. I think I at least desrve a sundae or  apple pies or something, I mean, come on.

Dani

Dani,

It is nice that you are honest person, but don't be that honest with your profession so early on with the Civies. As with your date, you don't know how they will react. You planted the seed in his head and that was all he could think about. Here are some possible reaction categories I can think of when told early on:

1. The guy will be disappointed and can't handle it, but be gentlemanly to end the date respectfully.
2. The guy will be disgusted and be preachy about it, and he will walk out on you.
3. The guy will try to take advantage. He know what you do and thinks why go out on more dates when he can just use that money to get satisfaction now.
4. The guy who is completely fine with it. He is confidant in his manhood (or not religious [not a slight on religion]) and will not be offended at all. He will treat you like a regular person.

When you date the guy long enough, you can get an idea of what category he will fall into and how he'll react. You can make you decision from there. Now there many be more scenerios, but those are all I can think of at the moment. Unfortunately, I think most guys fall into #1-3 and rarely #4.

Oh, I agree with everyone else that he was an ass, but as with life, some people are assholes.

-- Modified on 3/26/2006 11:41:00 PM

....ya gotta email me, I am not VIP anymore, though I will purchase it again soon, for now anything you dont wantto post publicly needs to be sent to [email protected], thanks!

Dani

...for one, I have waited a while to tell people and they freak out asking me why I didnt tell them earlier on; and also because I feel like its a waste of time on both parts if they dont agree with it. I need to know from the start-- it saves me getting attracted to and perhaps attached to them, only to be rejected later on. I dont want to get to know this great guy who is potentially closed minded to my line of work-- its not worth the effort, or the money that will be spent on dating and going out just to find out down the line its all for naught...

And yes, they do know what I do, and I have told them about him-- they say they dont know what happened, he has never acted like that in front of them...

Dani

...like your friend "R....", constantly coming up with these random ideas that I should help him fund to get off the ground, and always trying to get me get my girlfriends to talk to him so he can run the idea of an escort service past them.

Hmm, its sad, but at the same time its comforting to know he is not there are others out there that share my annoyance...

Dani

I'm with you, MA. Civies such as those you describe are not merely gentlemen, they are human beings. Dani's date was an animal.

Reon't be that honest with your profession so early on with the Civies

I would add one more category; the guy who is honestly confused by his reaction to the news but remains a gentleman about it. If he is otherwise attracted to the lady, he may ask to see her again while he sorts through his feelings concerning her profession.  Whatever his ultimate decision, this sort will remain gentlemanly, courteous and respectful.

Yikes Steph, you need some new friends!

I suggest that you hang with a classy dude like me instead of those gankstas that ya names....  I gots lots of kool 'deas on how we could do neat stuff.  For instance...   we cud rent apartments and rent them out by the hour... that would be kool... people who are tired could go there and watch tv for an hour or two...

We could also put a kiosk in shoping malls... and answer questions that people might have for a buck or two... Been working on that one for a while....

but mostly, you could give me money - and I could then attract the nice folks from Nigeria to send us the $150 Million that they have waiting for us....   I can handle those types of bizniz deals real well.... so what say you... can we go in biz together?

Oh, I will break a sweat for you! lol....  

But I will do all this only if you can come to philly....   hope you like cheese steak sandwichess........  ROFLMAO!  Seriously - get new friends.

I have kicked out most of my old high school and neighbor friends who knew me when I was very shy and insecure....They can't see me as a confident assured woman in control of my life. I have a few more to kick out but they are more entangled into my family so it is a slow --avoid the phone calls and too busy to hang out routine that I have been pulling for a year now

I am glad to find a message board that supports females even ones with shady childhoods as many message boards believe that a woman with a tarnished past is permanent damaged goods and deserves to be used and abused. I do love this hobby and this message board

...if you're nice and don't try to take any of my McNuggets.

I would never tell it a civvie date either. I think most guys can't handle it. Perhaps not initially, but as soon as it comes to meeting his friends and family, questions will be asked. Moreover, most men are hypocrits. They find it cool to date a hot provider, but when it comes to settling down, they suddenly want the sweet and wholesome type.

I'm a guy myself, and I certainly wouldn't have a problem dating a provider, but that's only after being in the hobby for a while and having gained a lot of respect for some of these women.

talking about food, I'm going to have to come over there and roll you both in Bisquick. Wink!

Hugs,
ciara

...for me! I gotta keep my girlish figure you know-- and nothing is healthier than breaded, fried soy product, with random pieces of what could possibly be chicken mixed in....

Dani

-- Modified on 3/28/2006 2:51:47 PM

Honest... they can be very good for you if you make them yourself! Dont cont them off the list... they are a perfect diet treat, if you insist on following such things...

Dani

wanna, in her 20's, is still clueless.

I don't see how it's any different.  Some people have issues with accountants, and when I meet those people, I tell them to go fuck themselves.  The problem is that you tried to remain nice after he showed his true colors, and that gave him opportunity to be more of an ass.

I know a few people that are otherwise intelligent, but have a dumbness that effects them when the topic of escorts come up.  Shake it off Dani; you're better than him.

Me, personally, married late (then divorced) in life and to a woman who should have better common sense than she does... I would rather have someone who has worked out a couple of problems...  and is more comfortable confronting issues with the mindset of lets work this out... rather than the screaming match of "I'm right, you're wrong, My needs first, others always second, I'm in charge, you're not etc."

As I have posted, women who embrace this hobby, tend to grow - women who have trouble coming to grips with what this hobby is, tend to become - exactly what you have stated "tarnished" - it is all how you view yourself in the end.

There are so many ladies on this board who are articulate, intelligent and in control of their lives.  I may not always agree with them, but then again, it would be impossible to agree with everyone.  Most Civie women I meet would do well to seek their advice - not that providers do not come with problems - they do - but we ALL do.  it is just that the provider view, IMHO, is a bit more realistic about male/female relations than most civie women can ever have.  

So my dear Ms. Wannarideher, my hat is off to you, your posts should be encouraging to all those who come from a similar background, change is possible, you can control your life and indeed find respect for yourself.  While you may be seen by some as tarnished brass - I see you as polished gold.  Keep posting and I will keep reading.

"I'm a guy myself, and I certainly wouldn't have a problem dating a provider, but that's only after being in the hobby for a while and having gained a lot of respect for some of these women."

I think there is a tremendous amount of truth in this.  

Just as providers often wisely screen their clients, they should "screen" who they are going to tell -- they should have a good understanding of the reaction they are going to get; otherwise, I think it's too easy to end-up having to deal with jerks (unfortunately).