This is buried in a thread below on the subject of drugs, but is an interesting topic in a more general (non-drug) sense.  The double standard referred to does seem to exist, but it seems to me that when a provider likes to be catered to sexually, often part of it is tied up with her desire to be treated with respect, and not like a sexual servant.  Complicated stuff.

The post's content:

"My feelings on men who smoke mariuana for the sexual hightening of it aren't romantic at all. They're almost like sexual addicts and become so self absorbed. They lack intimancy and the need to arouse their partner or even consider her sexual needs. They're so self absorbed in themselves it makes the experience become just sex. I have to say, I definitely continue to see them only for the money."
--A Providers Opinion

Your last paragraph here has a very negative tone to it, and I gotta respond.  
Whenever a guy in this forum states that he's falling for a provider, he is told under no uncertain terms, that this is a business.  That it is all just fantasy and not to confuse this with what you'd experience with a "real" girlfriend.
And then you, a provider, looks negatively on the fact that some of your clients who smoke pot are self absorbed and don't consider your sexual needs, and for them, it is just sex.
Don't you see the double standard here.....

For what it's worth, here's my opinion.....

This IS just a business.  It is a business of paying for sex.
Neither the client or the provider should expect anything more unless it is negotiated beforehand.  Why SHOULD a client consider a providers sexual needs?  Who is the customer here??????



-- Modified on 5/12/2003 8:01:57 PM

providers are human also.  Most respond to the same warmth and tenderness that the hobbiest does.  That is, they will want to give the hobbiest a similar experience to which they themselves receive. Not to mention it's good business practice to treat valued customers better.  It's also true in every other business.

I have not stated in my post that a client should consider my sexual needs.  My needs are very well satisfied by their monetary contributions.  I like to think the men in this hobby are not all in it just for sexual gratification but let's face it, most of them are.  I, just like many other escorts in this industry, have bondaries and I try and set them according to how I live my lifestyle.  

This is an open fourm where we can openly express our likes and dislikes. I don't understand your reasoning. Just because they're paying clients, you're saying I should compromise and jeapordize my integrity?  Does this mean I should give BBBJTC when I only offer BBBJ or I should give anal even though I don't offer it?

If he chooses to see me and continue to smoke pot to highten his sexual gratification in our session, then I choose to see him to satisfy my monetary needs. I think we're both being satisfied here so what's the problem?

FWIW my objection to marijuana would have nothing to do with sex... it would have to do with the fact that I want ZERO involvement with drugs, I do not want a client who is high coming to see me, I do not want to deal with all the things that entails. I do not want to "party," please do not bring me anything!

Neither should you, as a client. If you really think that you can make informed and correct decisions about your safety and your life while you are high, you've been smoking a leeeeeeeeeeetle too much.

I do not engage in illegal activities of the kind you describe in this post. That's not a double standard. I require the best for myself, and for my gents.

Sincerely,
Nicole

It seemed to me that you were saying in your post that a client should consider your sexual needs, but I understand now that you don't actually feel that way.  Personally, I have no problem catering to a provider sexually if she wants it, as long as lets me have my turn being catered to also.  It's all part of the fun.

The subject of a provider's offerings is a different topic.  Of course I do not think that you or any other provider should do anything that you are uncomfortable with.

Every provider is different, but my impression is that often it is not warmth and tenderness that they are wanting when they want to be catered to sexually, but respect.  

Warmth and tenderness are things that many clients want, and it helps in meeting their sometimes quite needy emotional state to assist them in feeling that their need for warmth and tenderness is reciprocated.  

Respect is what most providers want more than warmth and tenderness.  Catering to her sexually is a form of respect, because it puts the two parties on a more equal footing.  Many guys don't like this, because they feel that since they are the customer, it should not be an equal relationship.

"This IS just a business.  It is a business of paying for sex."

Of course it's just a business. I fully realize that.  You will never hear me complaining otherwise. The real question is do my clients REALLY want to be reminded that it is just a business? Just like no provider wants to be treated like a whore, I seriously doubt any client would want to be treated like any other john.


Any time a provider begins treating this like a business, clients bitch and moan that she's a clockwatcher. She doesn't kiss. She gives covered BJ's. She entertained three other men that day. She's mechanical, etc. She's only in it for the money. She's disinterested. She's not a GFE. By pretending it's not a business, we are simply catering to what the market demands.

Some guys (a small minority) hardly "touch the merchandise", LOL, and I don't mind at all. I figure my job is to help them get off in as sexy a manner as possible, and if they don't want to DATY or touch my breasts, well, that's not their job if they're not interested.

The one thing I must ask for is respect during a session. If a guy ever were to imply he felt I was inferior, flaky, or not intelligent (even if he believes it inside), I would get upset and end the session. That's my minimum requirement (aside from the usual cleaniness,hygiene, etc)

Now, being human, if there are two men asking for the same time slot, the one who likes touching me and helping me achieve orgasm will get priority.

Also, I think most men recognize that if they do go to the trouble of attempting to satisfy a woman, the "work" pays for itself in terms of a more turned on woman who is more interested in a hot session. A win-win situation for both.

Regarding respect, I agree wholeheartedly.  Providers, like anyone else, should be treated with warmth and respect.  But I still think it's a double standard for a provider to expect that their sexual needs are met when they would be the first ones to say that this is a business and don't fall in love with me.  

A client can show respect without catering to her sexual needs.  The relationship IS equal, but the roles are different.  
As in ANY business, the customers needs are the ones that need to be met.  And the provider (or business woman) should NOT expect ANYTHING in return except to get paid for her services.  Now if a client does cater to her sexual needs, than she should considered as a tip or as a bonus.  But they shouldn't expect it.

and again, everyones needs are different, but lets face it, you would prefer a woman that responds in comparisons to say a dead fish?  Yes, you are the customer, but then again, we do not have little buttons on the back of our heads that will just get us wet, hot and bothered at will.  It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that the ladies within this forum are not robots and in order for you to have that woman that responds with the wild abandonment that you may fantasize about that there are buttons of a different nature that have to be pushed to get her jump started.

It begins with respect.  That in itself is a turn on and sets the comfort level in a forum that harbors so many risks for both parties.  You would expect nothing less.  Getting her juices flowing is a plus and feels oohh so much better for you as her heat levels rise.  Her responses as she crys out with pleasure and feverishly moves with uninhibited abandon, to an explosive climax.  

Love has nothing to do with intimate sexual explorations. Why the confusion that when a lady states that she wants respect, that her needs be met, and that intimacy is important is it that one thinks love has anything to do with it.  You want her to be hot, wet, moan, move and actually enjoy pleasuring you.  Well, turning her on really does get you want you want.  It is like sitting in the drivers seat of a car and wondering why the hell you paid all this money for a car that won't move and then bitching when you find out that you actually have to put the key in the ignition and turn it on.  HELLO!  That's it in a nutshell and quite frankly don's see the double standard there.

Sexual gratification is easy to achieve.  A 60 buck blow up doll with moans from a tape recorder can get you off just as well.  But even then, you will have to treat that doll with some kind of respect, she may just blow up or deflate.  The hand works well too.  It's all in the experience you choose to have.  Which would you prefer?

As to the drug element. Again, each person is different and don't judge what others prefer.  I don't prefer drugs of any kind, but must say that I do agree with the statement that the lady made with regards to gents that smoke weed, but then again my experiences with that sort of thing was back in my early high school years and age may have played a great factor when looking at a playboy centerfold gave enough sexual gratification.  One look, it was over with and the earnest belief that they had reached utopia was enough of an incentive to run out in search of a more gratifying experience which usually involved more mature gentlemen that knew how to push the right buttons.

Lauren

"Just because they're paying clients, you're saying I should compromise and jeapordize my integrity?"
--A Providers Opinion

I NEVER suggested that you should compromise and jeapordize your integrity.  Please show me in my post where I said that.  I never did.  Of course you shouldn't give or offer anything that you don't want to.

"I like to think the men in this hobby are not all in it just for sexual gratification but let's face it, most of them are."
--A Providers Opinion

Uhhhhh......HELLLLLLLLLOOOO!!!  Just what kind of business do you think you are in????  That's like being in the Tire business and saying that you would like to think that most customers who see you want more than just tires.  That you'd like to think that they will want a car!!!!

There is definatly a double standard here.  You say that you would like to think that most men do not see you for sexual gratification alone.  So how do you feel when men say that they hope that you are not seeing them for monetary reasons alone.

It sounds like you may be in the wrong business......or....in the business for the wrong reasons.  Either way, I hope that this has been enlightening in some way........

"It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that the ladies within this forum are not robots and in order for you to have that woman that responds with the wild abandonment that you may fantasize about that there are buttons of a different nature that have to be pushed to get her jump started."
--Lauren

Lauren
The providers that can push their own buttons are the ones that are REALLY good in this business.  
A salesman working on the salesfloor must push his own buttons to get him excited about the product he is about to demonstrate.  He also has to push his own buttons to get him excited to greet and respond to his customer as if that customer, at that time, is the most impotant person on the planet.  IT IS NOT THE CUSTOMERS RESPONSABILITY TO PUSH THE RIGHT BUTTONS ON THE SALESMAN TO GET HIM TO RESPOND.  THIS as you say, is not rocket science.
Now it's true that a salesman does not have to get his body to respond like a provider, but that's why YOU make the BIG bucks.  Because YOU have these talents, or should have these talents,  that most others do not have.

I agree with you that in all relationships, business and otherwise, it all begins with respect.

"Why the confusion that when a lady states that she wants respect, that her needs be met, and that intimacy is important is it that one thinks love has anything to do with it."
--Lauren

The confusion lies in the fact that respect and having your needs met are two different things.  Now here's where the double standard comes in.......again.  I say, "I need to fall in love".  You say, "Find a girlfriend in the real world"
You say, "I want my sexual needs to be met".  I say, "Then find a boyfriend in the real world"

I also agree with you that love and sexual explorations are not synonymous. I disagree with you that intamacy does not breed love.  It can and it does. But you EXPECTING intamacy on top of what you are getting paid is outrageous.

"ÊA 60 buck blow up doll with moans from a tape recorder can get you off just as well. ÊBut even then, you will have to treat that doll with some kind of respect, she may just blow up or deflate. ÊThe hand works well too. ÊIt's all in the experience you choose to have. ÊWhich would you prefer?
--Lauren

No, I prefer to be with a provider who knows specifically what I like, who knows how to push my buttons, and who knows how to push hers.  THAT takes study and talent, and I pay dearly for that.......

I totally agree..and I would add, many clients don't feel they've gotten their monies worth, if they don't please the woman. It's just how their wired, they're "Givers" and it's just their nature. I too am a giver, so I understand the mind-set. So for those guys, it is "Getting their monies worth" when they please the Provider. Yes, they still see it as a service, as the "I'm the one paying, so it's all about me" guys do, it's just that, having a SP that's turned-on to what he's doing to her and getting her off, is what he seeks, when he hires someone to play with...So for him, that part is crucial for a GFE...IMHO

Silky,
I agree with EVERYTHING that you're saying.  But the topic is satisfying the sexual needs of the provider.

You are in the fantasy business.  As a professional, it is your responsiblity to give your customer (providing it isn't anything that you would not normally do) what it is that they desire.  That is what you are getting paid to do.  If your client desires that you are sexually pleased, then I am sure you would feel obligated to make sure that he experiences that.

That is different than fulfilling the needs of the provider.  It is you providing the fantasy.  If what you say, like some have said before here, that in order for that to happen, the client must push her buttons and fufill HER sexual needs, than I say that THAT is just being lazy and not really giving you the opportunity in applying your craft and your art.

It's like putting the cart before the horse.  I know I may sound like a broked record, but I really feel this way.  I believe that it is up to the provider to provide a satisfying sexual experience.  If she does it well, she may in fact get it reciprocated on the next visit, but if it happens, it's icing on the cake.  It should NOT be expected.......

"ÊMost respond to the same warmth and tenderness that the hobbiest does."
--loratad

I agree.  Everyone responds to warmth and tenderness.  And, we as clients should treat providers with both respect, warm and tenderness, however, this falls way short of providing for their sexual needs.

"That is, they will want to give the hobbiest a similar experience to which they themselves receive."
--loratad

I think you got that backwards.  The hobbiest will want to give a similar experience to which they themselves receive,
but, and here's the big but, it should not be expected, or preceived in a negative light if it doesn't happen.

These ladies get paid a lot of money, get taken out to really nice restaurants, taken to very nice places, etc, etc, in payment for us to be able to experience the practice of their art.  To say that we must also satisfy their sexual needs for this experience is taking it a bit too far, don't ya think????

Wow! Aphroditez Your second paragraph got my motor running!!!!  Do you ever find yourself out Boston way????

For all of you providers who believe that your clients pay good money for your services, and that you, being the highly regarding professional that you are, will provide the best and most memorable experience that is available, and that you will apply all of your skills with this client to no less a degree, than you have done with past clients, without any consideration other than the fact that they have chosen you as a provider and are willing to pay your stated fee.........my hats off to you.  You are truly a skilled professional in a world of amatuers and fully deserve whatever fee your market will allow.

For all of you providers who feel that they would offer better services to a client that would satisfy your sexual needs, than it is to you whom I describe as an amatuer.........

::getting off of soapbox now::

I agree.  It is the job of a good provider to NEVER let the client FEEL that it is JUST a business.  She should never be preceived as being mechanical and disinterested, for if she did, she would find future business very hard to come by.

Uh, Nicole.......YOU are also involved in an illegal activity, no less illegal than smoking pot.  

I'm curious, do you feel that it is ok to share a glass of wine or two with your client??  If so, than I would suggest that making informed and correct decisions are no less impaired.

Sincerely
Larry

"Now, being human, if there are two men asking for the same time slot, the one who likes touching me and helping me achieve orgasm will get priority."
--sexxygirrl

I truly mean no disrespect here, but the "being human" aspect of this is a cop out.  You are not being paid to just "be human".  You are getting paid good money to go beyond that and to provide just as good a service to the ones who do NOT touch you, as to the ones that do.

The "being human" aspect of this is just being ordinary.  Having the skill and talent to go beyond that is what would make you special.......

and there are something that I have heard that I agree with and some that I disagree with:

agree:  providers do get paid the big bucks to turn on and turn off themselves.  Its that ability that clients like, for some (AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL CLIENTS) but for some clients its easier to be able to be satisfied with an experience if they don't have to put a lot of work into it.  I would suppose that's why ladies like myself are drawn to escorting.  I love for a guy to please me but my turn on is pleasing him.  In other words, a client could touch me and its cool but its better for me if I'm touching him.

disagree:  that clients should not put a little effort into it.  He shouldn't be completely responsible for getting the provider "ready" but I would think if a provider was a real GFE then he should act like a boyfriend in some ways.  If a GFE is not what he's looking for and he is just trying to have a good time then all that prior is null and void.

I guess what I'm saying is if the provider puts the client 1st then she is doing her job and if the client wants a 100% GFE then put a little effort forward and he will be amazed at what will come out of it.  If its one thing I've learned reading reviews is if you're a good and steady client YMMV a whole lot better than those who aren't including those who choose not to put forth any effort and all of this is just IMHO. *smile*

-- The one thing I must ask for is respect during a session. If a guy ever were to imply he felt I was inferior, flaky, or not intelligent (even if he believes it inside), I would get upset and end the session. --

But, "flaky" isn't necessarily a -bad- thing!  I -prefer- the people I hang around with, and those I call my friends to be a bit off the norm.  It keeps things from getting too dull.  I definitely prefer to find the same qualities in a woman that I'm taking to bed, whether I'm paying cash for her company or otherwise.  

I'm a self-professed "giver" much as Silky describes....and she is right on. What I think folks are missing in this discussion, however, is that for many hobbyists, sexual gratification is the hot dog roll, but the real meat (bad pun...sorry..*smile*), of the session is in a momentary 'connection' or intimacy. Hences, the need for give and take. I sometimes wonder if this is not also true for SPs......help ladies?

Hi Nicole

"So, for the gentlemen who do not wish to involve themselves in giving pleasure, then they should not seek out a GFE."
--Nicole

Why not?  Let's say a client would like to spend a nice week with you at the Four Seasons.  Nice restaraunts, maybe the theater......let's take it a step further.  How bout a week in Paris.  The client wants a GFE in that he wants you to be interested in what he has to say, he wants to walk hand in hand with you, he wants to cuddle with you, he wants the attention from you that he would get from a girlfriend, however, in bed, he wants all of the sexual activities to be focused on him, and him alone.  He doesn't want to be concerned with fulfilling your sexual needs.  He want's to feel that all that you need is to fill his sexual desires.  This IS fantasy, right?  That's what he is paying for.  Is this not a GFE.......for him????

So in that context, I disagree with your statement above.

I also understand that there are many men who really get off on giving pleasure and for THEM, this is a GFE.

All I'm saying, is that a GFE is not black and white.  There's a lot of gray here.  

Bottom line to all this, is that us gents are paying good money to fulfill our fantasies. We deserve to get the BEST that you have to offer, without the stipulation that the only way to get the best that you have to offer is to fullfill your sexual needs.  That was the thrust of the initial post.

Am I making any sense here???

knowing that you all care so passionately about GIVING (and TAKING) gives me a ... hmmm .... warm fuzzy feeling inside!

[reaching for the phone] ...

>

No you`re not making sense. In fact you`re begining to sound like you have some deep desire to deprive your partner of any kind of pleasure for some reason. What`s the harm in her having a good time anyway? This isn`t like a waitress delivering your food then going in the back to take care of other business. These are women sharing the most intimate of things with you. What is your obsession with denying them a good time?

No amount of money can buy the best I have to offer, however I will provide the best money can buy. Only a select few significant others will ever recieve the best I have to offer, and even then, that hasn't happened in years.

I just can't believe this!  You state:

"The providers that can push their own buttons are the ones that are REALLY good in this business."

That goes without saying in any business.  One has to believe in their product, be confident with their product, love their product in order to sell their product and be successful no matter what it is that they have to offer.  If they don't, it goes without saying, it shows and service, no matter what it is will be poor and leave any customer scratching their head as to why the hell they invested in something so lame.  One can only gather that the marketing department really did do their jobs right to get you to bite-LOL! And, of course it is not up to the customer to sell his own product to his salesman.....I agree, that is not rocket science...so why state the obvious?  It has nothing to do with the statement I made.  

But as a salesman, with talent enough to recognize the market I cater to, am sure not going to waste my time trying to sell a Lamborgini to a customer who cannot appreciate the product for what it is and is out shopping for a Yugo (remember those-lol!)  Nor am I going to try and sell a fine tuned, sleek and fast car like that to a customer who is out shopping for a fine vintage car.  I would rather refer him to my sales buddy down the street who happens to have the classic '57 convertible corvette (did they really make one that year?) he is really looking for.  And of course I am going to explore the wants and needs of the customer who is a little unsure about what he wants and will take the time to discern as to whether or not he really does want that Lamborgini...after all he may just want that Ferrari that I have in stock on the lot.  Knowing your customers, what their needs and wants are before a sale is made, makes all the difference in the world.  It pays off in the long run, even if you do not make a sale, for they will refer that someone that is looking for the Lamborgini to me and word of mouth is the best advertising one can get.  Making the sale for the bottom $$$'s may feel great at the time, but leaves you high and dry in the long run.  That I believe is the key to any biz.  Honor and integrity.

That said...You state:

"The confusion lies in the fact that respect and having your needs met are two different things.  Now here's where the double standard comes in.......again.  I say, "I need to fall in love".  You say, "Find a girlfriend in the real world"
You say, "I want my sexual needs to be met".  I say, "Then find a boyfriend in the real world"

"I also agree with you that love and sexual explorations are not synonymous. I disagree with you that intamacy does not breed love.  It can and it does. But you EXPECTING intamacy on top of what you are getting paid is outrageous."

For one, I don't recall stating that intimacy does not breed love.  But, I don't recall anything that states that Intimacy=Love either.  I was also under the impression that if one is looking for love that they would consult the personals and not the services of an escort.  Apples and Oranges IMHO.

Being able to open ones self up to explore all the boundaries within a sexual encounter is in my book intimacy.  And for the sake of arguement if a lady is selling a sexual encounter, then HELL YES I do expect intimacy.  It is after all what the encounter is about.

You state:

"No, I prefer to be with a provider who knows specifically what I like, who knows how to push my buttons, and who knows how to push hers.  THAT takes study and talent, and I pay dearly for that......."

Everyone is different in what gets their motor going.  

For example, if lightly stroking your inner thigh, while engaging in say a BBBJ makes you breakout in fits of laughter akin to watching your favorite comedy hour and doesn't bring you a to a higher sexual plateau, well then, for Godsakes say so.  Don't sit there and grit your teeth because you are afraid to do so or if your testosterone levels are so high that all you can do is think...I can take it.  One tenses up, which sets off alarm bells and I don't advertise being clarivoyant.  And before you start in on well, a good provider would know...well, yes, one takes note of the body language and if I can toot my own horn, I would say I am right on the mark 98% of the time, but I do aim for 100% satisfaction and there is no feeling better than to have someone experience something that they didn't know themselves.  

That is what makes for the ultimate experience in my book.  Opening to little intimate details about ones likes, dislikes, in turn heightens the experience for both parties.  Who wouldn't be turned on by that.  I could go on with examples to fill a novel, and yes, everyone can go through the motions, satisfy themselves and still be happy, but ooooh, what if there were more to be had that could make one happier still and reach even a higher plateau?  Even I have been pleasantly surprised in reaching new heights.  Intimacy in a sense is a tool that makes an encounter soooo much more.  

The bottom line is that if two people meet with the sole intention of finding someone to fall in love with then more power to them, but those ground rules have to be spelled out before hand.  On the other hand if two people meet just for good sex, well, it does take two and given that sexual tastes and preferences vary, it does help to know what those variances are for one and insures that the gent leaves relaxed, a smile on his faceand the thought that what he has paid dearly for was well worth it (even more than what he expected) and that is what a good lady aims for.  

Whew.....

Lauren




-- Modified on 6/24/2003 1:54:04 PM

to take a day in the life of.  Sometimes I wish I could just snatch some of the gents up to see behind the scenes.  Not everyone is looking for the same things you are and I can imagine your jaw dropping to the ground when you see that it isn't always all about sex and even more so when you see that everyone has a differing view about what sex is all about.

I'm off the soap box now!

Lauren

::oops::

-- Modified on 5/13/2003 11:13:55 PM

No argument from me on that.  I am very aware that no everyone is looking for the same thing.  I am also sure that it's not always about sex.  

My issue is when a provider says that she won't or can't give a client her best unless the client reciprocates and satisfies her sexual needs, and uses the excuse that "I'm just human".

Hi Lauren,

Ok, let's cool things down a tad.  I know that you didn't write this to impress anyone, but, none the less, you did.  I AM impressed.  I agree with EVERYTHING that you just said, and you obviously have a great handle on the art of salesmanship, but I have a problem with the following statement:

"Being able to open ones self up to explore all the boundaries within a sexual encounter is in my book intimacy. And for the sake of argument if a lady is selling a sexual encounter, then HELL YES I do expect intimacy. It is after all what the encounter is about."

A few things.  One, that I KNOW you are aware of, considering your profession, is that a large majority of men have a real problem with intimacy.  Now, being that you say that you expect it, my question is, what happens if you don't get it?  Does it damper your enthusiasm?  If it does, than THAT is the issue that I am talking about, for I feel that it shouldn't dampen your enthusiasm one iota (SP?)

But for me, intimacy goes beyond the boundaries of a sexual encounter.  It can be how one can look into your soul.  It can be how someone can answer your question before you ask it.  It can be nothing more than...........feeling safe with someone............safe in the deepest meaning of the word.  
After all, isn't that what we are all really looking for.  And IF you can provide that in a sexual encounter, then by God, you have earned whatever it is that you are paid (but it's a real double-edged sword here.  Guys can really get carried away with this).  But should you expect this in return?  Nice if it happens, but expect it??????  And again, if you don't get it, does your performance suffer??

I have a good many friends who are actors and musicians.  They say that they perform better when they have an appreciative audience.  That the audience and the artist feed off of each other.  It is why many actors would prefer to work a stage than work on a movie set.  But it is those artists that can do their best work regardless of audience feedback that get the kudos.........  

That's really all I'm trying to say........

Larry
ps
I really enjoyed reading your post.  Very well said.........

Very good point.  Although it's been to my experience that most top-of-the-line providers are very professional, others are not.  When we say it's for fun, they say it's a business.  When we say it's a business they say it's for fun!  Pay the cost to be the boss!

Joey

-- Modified on 5/14/2003 4:17:08 AM

Well said!

I'm not sure I'm following your point, are you saying that you'd like to think that hobbyist are not in this for sexual gratification????  Sex is why we pay $$, $$$ and up for our sessions!

A good way of avoiding addressing a good point is to add something to that point and then attack the something that was added--that way, you don't have to address the good point.  My older sister was great for that when I was a kid!



Joey

Lauren, I think what you're writing is well written and some of it I agree with.  I just think that you're grouping a lot of stuff together that do not fit.  Respect is one idea.  All hobbyist should respect the escort they see.  The difference between a SW and a escort starts with the respect that the hobbyist gives the escort.  

Intimacy, an escort's needs???  I don't get it.  It makes no sense to me, especially coming from a professional.

Fortunately, we have reviews to identify these professional types!



Joey

Ooooh I really hate hearing this, that the relationship is "equal." It's truly not, nor can it ever be so.  Gents may say that they have risks involving their jobs or their families... it's the ladies who are much more at risk for losing their LIVES... to me that is not equal and cannot by definition be equal. Aside from that, figuratively speaking... *you* are paying *me*, not vice versa... we don't take turns here.

As for "expecting" sexual satisfaction, to me that is silly... frankly, my sexual needs will be met one way or another with or without anyone else's help. I certainly wouldn't depend upon or expect someone else to "get me off," altho really the sessions in and of themselves feed my needs with or without a "Big O," so to speak.

What I will say is that you do get out what you put in. Lie there like an unresponsive lump, and your session is not going to be what it would if you were enthusiastic, active, and passionate. (On that note I'll add that someone CAN "just lie there" and be responsive and passionate at the same time.)

Hugs*
Nicole

Look....I know that I am not going to be everybody's cup of tea.  I compare myself more to the classic vintage car that a gent looks for and know that the gent looking for the Lamborgini isn't going to be happy with me.  Gents do pay dearly and I am not going to pretend that I am a souped up racy sports car.

I know what makes me tick and know my limitations and therefore make sure that the gent that contacts me is really looking for that classic.  Only then will I make the sale for only then can I ensure that the gent will walk away happy.

That is my point.  I cannot please every gent that makes contact with me. I know that if a gent is looking for a PSE then I would not be the one to see.  I am not the hardbody they usually are and although I can talk the talk and know that I can give as hard and maybe better in some cases, I am not going to respond favorably to the coldness that experience usually entails.  In a scenario in which a gent is in the same mindset as myself, then the juices will naturally flow and that is what I mean by having my needs met.  You seem to think that it shouldn't matter and that a lady should see who ever and make a great show of liking it for she is a professional after all.  I disagree that it isn't as cut and dry as you would have it and do think the greats out there know this as well and probably have the fine reputations they do because they do ensure that the gents they meet with are going to be the ones they know they knock their socks off of.

Lauren

Lauren

I agree with what you are saying.  I think you and I have differing views of what intimacy is all about.  I think there are many levels to it and that it isn't as cut and dry as you think.  Yes, it is a double edged sword and yes, I have had gents that want to cross the line, but I do make it clear from the get go that I cannot take things beyond what it is, for when the day comes that I do fall in love...then I will retire from this endeavor.  I stopped seeing one client because my feelings were going beyond what they should.  It isn't easy, but one has to be true to themselves and other parties involved.

Yes, I have had encounters when I first started with gents that left me thinking that this must have been the worst experience he ever had because I surely was disapointed.  To my shock, I actually had gotten a good review off of one, call backs and/or notes of thanks for a fab time.  It left me scratching my head wondering what the hell they found so great about it.  So I must be practicing my art in the right way.  Go figure!

I knew that this would be a short lived endeavor if I continued on this way, for I hated it and knew I would not last and burn out quickly. It is why I didn't go with an agency, time restrictions and the clientele seemed to cold to me and things seemed to rushed, so I redid my site and geared it toward gents that liked the things that I liked.  Since then I have had nothing but wonderful experiences and walk away confident that the gent is as fulfilled as I am.  I do alot behind the scenes to ensure that I am what he is looking for.  It is my experience that even the gents that I do not end up seeing do appreciate the fact and even send thank you notes to me for referring them to someone I feel is more to their liking.

So having my needs met is a win win situation for everyone around.  

Lauren

Regarding the post below, I don't think the Saleman analogy is the most appropriate when it comes to the provider-client relationship. I'd compare the experience not to buying a car, but more like going to play. We all know what's on stage is make-believe, but truly talented actors allow you to suspend your disbelief and get you caught up in the performance. Does anyone really think that when, say, Richard Gere and Julia Roberts are making love in "Pretty Woman" that the two of them were actually sexually aroused during the filming? Sometimes people click, sometimes they don't. So it would be unreasonable to expect a provider to be truly turned on in EVERY encounter. Performance, however, is another issue.


Original post:
"The providers that can push their own buttons are the ones that are REALLY good in this business.  
A salesman working on the salesfloor must push his own buttons to get him excited about the product he is about to demonstrate.  He also has to push his own buttons to get him excited to greet and respond to his customer as if that customer, at that time, is the most impotant person on the planet.  IT IS NOT THE CUSTOMERS RESPONSABILITY TO PUSH THE RIGHT BUTTONS ON THE SALESMAN TO GET HIM TO RESPOND.  THIS as you say, is not rocket science. Now it's true that a salesman does not have to get his body to respond like a provider, but that's why YOU make the BIG bucks.  Because YOU have these talents, or should have these talents,  that most others do not have"

Well, this got people's attention....

For me, it goes either way.  Sometimes I just want to be treated and pampered and see how completely into my own experience I can get, have a mind boggling orgasm, and then grin. That usually is best done with a great masseuse who knows how to excite and extend.  Others, I want be involved with the provider and do something mutual with her.  Then her response to me and her excitement are part and parcel with how I am getting turned on.  I want a GFE (and, I guess, offer a reciprocal BFE, sans the $$$).  That's the great thing about it being commerce.  You can make a connection,  but there are clear lines so you retain your rationality.  We're not courting, dating or getting married.  We're yahoo-fucking and hopefully quite well.  

Either way, it's all good.  I would never consider not acting respectfully with someone willing to do this for or with me.  If I don't enjoy what happens, I shop elsewhere next time, no harm, no foul.  No reason for disrespect unless there was no integrity between the promise she made and delivery she offered.

exactly (EOM)

"So it would be unreasonable to expect a provider to be truly turned on in EVERY encounter. Performance, however, is another issue."
--Relky

I never said that she should truly be turned on.  It IS ALL in the performance.  If a client's desire is that his provider for the evening is turned on, than it is the resposibiltiy of the provider to create the "image" that she is "truly" turned on, regardless if she is or not.  And if the client detects that this is just an act, she has failed, and has done her profession an injustice. That's why I think a "sales" analogy works here, for that is also a performance.  A truly good salesman, can close a sale without a customer ever thinking that they were "sold" anything.  From the customers point of view, they were just allowed to make the purchase from someone that they really like and will more than likely send in their family and friends.  From the salesmans point of view, he has used every aspect in his arsenal that he has ever been taught in the art of salesmanship.

And by the way, you mean to tell me that Richard Gere and Julia Roberts weren't REALLY turned on during the filming?  Coulda fooled me!!!!    

You're missing the point here.  

I have no desire in denying anyone a good time, including a provider.  

The post that started this whole thread was a provider who said that a customer would not get the best that she would offer unless her sexual needs were satisfied.  I disagree with that statement and feel that she should give her best regardless if she is sexually satisfied or not.  THAT is what she is getting paid to do......

This has absolutly NOTHING to do with depriving ANYONE from having a good time.  It has EVERYTHING to do with using that as a REQUIREMENT on TOP of monetary payment in exchange for her offering the best that she has to offer.



-- Modified on 5/14/2003 12:32:27 PM

I totally agree with you.

Iwien - Whether you like it or not, whether it makes me any less professional, whether I am getting paid or not...NO matter the circumstance, business or personal, my partner is going to have a better experience is there is some reciprocation. I know it pains you to face the fact that some providers want to achieve orgasms too, but I hate the fact that Nader wasn't elected in 2000. I've gotten over it. There are some situations in life over which YOU and I have no control.

By the way, I had a date at 12:30 p.m. today. The client wasn't particuarly attractive or charming, but I had one of the BEST orgasms of the year. It was heavenly. And oh yes, he paid me, and yes, I demanded that he not stop. Believe it or not, 99.99999% of my clients WANT to genuinely please me. Surprised? You shouldn't be. Other providers can substantiate this claim, because clients usually ask, "What do you like?" There are some men in this world who know understand how the provider/client relationship can be a mutually beneficial sexually satisfying experience for both parties involved. The more and more you post about this topic, the more and more I wonder about your true feelings about providers and females in general.

God Nicole, I love your passion........

And the subject of your post is how we should live our lives..........every day..........or at the least, give it our best shot!!

A budding fan,

Larry

"I know it pains you to face the fact that some providers want to achieve orgasms too"
--InterestingWoman

I NEVER said that.  It excites me when a provider is having a good time and is achieving mind-blowing orgasms.

I will repeat what I wrote to AMPALLANG

"This has absolutely NOTHING to do with depriving ANYONE from having a good time. It has EVERYTHING to do with using that as a REQUIREMENT on TOP of monetary payment in exchange for her offering the best that she has to offer."
--me

"There are some men in this world who know understand how the provider/client relationship can be a mutually beneficial sexually satisfying experience for both parties involved."
--InterestingWoman

I understand that also. When I see a provider, I also ask what it is that she likes.  My gripe is that it should not be EXPECTED for exchange of excellent service.

My true feelings for women and providers in general are very much grounded and intact.

The fact of the matter is that there are many, many providers who do not expect anything from a client other than that they are clean, have respect for her, and pay her going rate.  That is not to say, that if I see such a provider, that I will not do my best in offering her as good of a sexual experience as I can possibly offer.  

So there is no need to wonder about my true feelings, for I have stated them numerous times as I have stated them above.

Well,

It never hurts to try to make it good for the provider anyway.  Even the most professional provider can't equal the response you get when you really get a girl worked up and wanting it as bad as you do.  Sorta like being on a show like When Beatuiful women attack. Nothing like it at all.

Heck, I even had a provider offer me a much lower rate just because she enjoyed our sessions so much.  Her offer,I didn't ask.  

In short it is just like the good book says, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

Broden

A lady I saw about a month ago made a point of it to stop before she left (just after she picked up the donation, in an envelope, she never asked), how glad she was to spend time with me.  I have seen her 3 times.  She said that I set the right mood (candles, a drink, nice conversation and a backrub) and treated it like a date.  I also focus on her needs.  I always do.  She said some men treat her poorly and just throw the money down on the table before she leaves.

If we both treated each other with respect it will be a nice experience for both people.