I recently had a wonderful first time appointment with a provider.  During the session, she discovered that I was a pro photographer.  She asked if I would do a boudoir photo shoot for her as she needed new photos for her website.  I am the friend you know that often offers favors without thinking them through due to a naively generous nature.  I said yes, I would do it for free.  

You offered to shoot her and do all the post-production for free. If you wanted to do this in trade you should have asked. Would it have been nice if she had truly been appreciative in the manner in which you had hoped? Of course! But when you offer to.do something for free and without conditions you should expect nothing in return. Anything you DO get is bonus.

You provide a service for which she should give a donation.

In you post you say "Some might say that if I wanted something for something, I should have just suggested a trade."

He OFFERED to do it for free, then hoping for pussy. So, she is not a bitch possibly a tad insensitive for not offering him a drink.  

else you both are uncertain of what you are getting -

Even if she asked, he had every opportunity to ask for his going rate or a trade which he did not do and now is pissed because he thought she should have taken care of blue balls.  

For seeing it for exactly what it is.

Here, I'll copy and paste my exact words...I think you got played, and believe me I've been played numerous times in my life.

OK, there are some strong opinions out there.  I see both points and appreciate the advice not to trade services.  Yes, in hindsight, I was disingenuous in offering a free favor.  Silly of me to expect something in return. The favor was really with strings attached only in my mind.  

When he offered his services for free? She mentioned she needed a shoot and he offered FOR FREE. If you have been played then take a look at how you do shit and change it. If the Op keeps offering services for free and then cries about it, it is not the people who take him up on his offer but him that needs to change how he does stuff.

and you're used to getting cowgirl after the shoot. I also suspect you don't intentionally give away anything for free.

Come to think of it, to the person who said "free is free", I disagree, at least from my perspective.

And her not being a mind reader did not get it. Well, next time offer a trade and quit offering shit for free when you know out of the gate you want something in return. And then putting the blame or onus on the non mind reader who took you up on your offer.

Holding others to your standard is an exercise in disappointment.

Lesson learned sir -e-

To set the record straight, this is the first time I have done a shoot for a provider, free or otherwise.  I am not a serial photographer who offers services for free and expects nookie in return.  However, in this case, it did happen

I'm a professional photographer and know you got used. It's amazing how people feel that photography isn't worth anything. I get a lot of requests from 'friends' etc. asking if I could just take a photo of their family for a Christmas card, or whatever. I had a provider ask me to take some photos of her awhile back. I suggested a trade and she agreed. Next time either suggest a trade or other compensation.

Yes I would feel ok about it afterwards.  

You know what, I may have had manipulative and resentful intentions and I own up to them, stupid as they are, but I did deliver on a rather major favor and that was indeed "naive and generous" on my part.  

Let me preface this by saying I too have offered services for free.  I have helped where I can and have gotten varying levels of of response in return - from a thank you text to OTC time.   But I asked for nothing and expected nothing.   But like providers say about gifts - never expected but always appreciated.  

Otherwise, it is not a gift, but an obligation that by rights ought to be repaid, and for which there should be an understanding tacit or otherwise.

I can't think of any gift that I've ever given that I regretted giving.

I can think of obligations I paid that were not repaid properly, however.

so if you want to get any regular business from that market segment I would advise not having any expectations,  not expecting to trade -

Take offers from tricks who are photogs to do any shoot. I will get a completely independent photog and pay the going rate. I do not want any expectations of sex at the shoot.  

I learned long ago as a photographer to not do "in kind" exchanges. One party always values his/her service higher than the other party perceives the worth.

Offering his photog services for nothing and placing zero dollar value. I agree, he should have charged something.

ter wouldn't let it through.

This is an excellent point and well taken -e-

H+T is dead on accurate here. Instead of negotiating it out and working out a deal that was a win/win, you instantly gave up all your hard work for free and now you are complaining about it after the fact.

You are right, a free service should have been just that.  And no, I have not experienced OTC so that does give me food for thought.  In that case, I would have just thanked her for the bonus and would not have thought of compensating further.

... I think you were abused.  

It's kind of skeevy to offer something free and secretly expect sex.
As for water… What are you retarded? "hey lets take five so I can get some water because I'm sweating and thirsty". Was that not an option? Do you feed yourself or linger around restaurant kitchens waiting for someone to throw you scraps?

This is a good point.  Sex after the shoot was not what I first envisioned when I offered the free favor in the beginning.  I had not thought things through yet but had already said yes and the favor was accepted.

You offered. She should have offered water but when I offer something for free, it is truly free. And yes I have done things worth a whole lot more. If you meant to barter than barter, but don't offer something for free then expect payment. And I never want or expected anything when I offer dinner ether.

Lesson learned. You expected something for being a nice guy and you were lucky you got a thank you. I am just surprised she didn't send her friends over for free photos. She knows how much that photo session should have cost, but she didn't care. Your mistake was thinking she actually cared. The only thing she cared about was "what else can I get from this guy?" Girls like that will take you for everything you have if you're foolish enough to let them.

Are pretty strong character flaws. Your choice of naive and generous is way off base, given that you were already manipulative from the get go and then resentful enough to come on here and take up a lot of space "venting" about it.  

...obviously upsetting the OP as well.  No water, then she's says she's hungry which is like saying: "okay, I'm done with you, get your shit and get out."  Then hardly a word of thanks.

Sure, he offered his services for free, but courtesy is free too and she was very cheap in that area.

Not 'this' world, I'm afraid. This place is so cutthroat it will eat you alive if there is anything 'nice' about you. They will sink their teeth in you and bring you down with them. No one gives a shit about any other person but themselves here, as long as they're getting 'theirs'. It can certainly change your perspective on the 'human nature' and thensome being here, that's for sure.  

I agree.  Both you and I would have gone farther (sans sex) to make someone who did what you did feel better, or at least quench your thirst.  But yourbest recourse is - and you don't need me to tell you this - is to pick among the 2000 other women available to you in the future.  And while we have all stepped in it here when posting something we're thinking 'it seemed like a good idea at the time'.  

she was getting uncomfortable with him hanging around wanting pussy but not asking for it!

Funny you should mention that!  She did ask if she could refer her friends to me for the same service.  I am sure she would not have expected the future services to be free as well though, I hope.

What a sad world that would be.

Thanks for weighing in on this, I do see your point and admit a bit embarrassingly that in hindsight, what I expected as an act of appreciation, can be considered very skeevy.  

Wow, the life's blood of any business.  That was really nice of her and does paint this in a whole other light.  

... and showing her appreciation for your generous act.  Unless of course she's assuming you'll give the same deal to her friends.  But of course you won't.    

... a truly good person will do what they do regardless of what the recipient (or user) does.  If someone can transcend things to that point of goodness, then being true to themselves will be enough.  Since none of us here met in church I am not sure there are too many people like that here or anywhere, but they do exist (and no, they don't all have the word 'saint' before their name)

That she was insensitive as a host.  

In this instance, my expectations for an act of appreciation was off base and out of line.  However, I am not a manipulator, nor some predator who is out there trying to cause harm.  I did not suggest this photo shoot so I could have a freebie.  I just offered the gift too quickly without thinking it through.  I get that the majority of the replies agree that I deserved what I got, and that it was ignoble of me to expect any compensation or appreciation for a gift. That point is well taken.

Even hearing this from the guys POV, I sided with the hooker. I'm gonna guess her version is a few cunt hairs different than his, if not a full 70's style porn bush different.

OK, you are only hearing my side, but I was as professional and courteous as can be.  And I did not overstay my welcome, about ten minutes after the shoot, I took my cue and packed up and left.  That is about enough time to catch my breath.

I never trade for any ones else trade, I work for cash money so should everyone else.
  No hurt feelings that way. Always cash

xxx

I did not think of it that way.

She got what she wanted out of you and now she could care less about you.  

and when I go out on a "sex optional"  NSA OTC date with a provider, I don't pressure her to have sex with me, even if we have had sex a dozen times before.

I hate to say this, but you are the exact person that hookers bitch about when they bitch about guys who want "OTC" time.  A woman who invites you out for dinner, drinks, etc is doing that, inviting you out for some social time, NOT offering you a freebie. when she want to fuck you for free, don't worry, she will let you know. lol

Yes, you started off looking for a bit of "tit for tat" and were disappointed when she didn't fall into your arms after your photo shoot, but you've owned up to it, and even I take no pleasure in continuing to pummel a guy who has already admitted his guilt.

What you did wasn't a lot unlike taking a woman on a fabulous vacation, assuming that she is going to sleep with you, but getting nothing but a peck on the cheek come bedtime. It happens, and you can either dwell on it, and resolve to stick strictly with P4P where the lines are well defined, or you can just go out and fuck some other gal and chalk this one up to experience. I mean after all, almost all of us have spent ridiculous amounts of money of a civvie chick, expecting to get laid at some point and ended up with blue balls. It's just one of those things that happen to men. I would say "get over it" but I am sure you've already received that message loud and clear.

There is always another experience to be had.

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 9:34:09 PM

"No one gives a shit about any other person but themselves here."

We said it, it's obvious you get it. Lesson learned I hope and kudos for taking all the harshness like a champ. I give credit where it's due.

since she was so hungry. That would have been the nice thing to do. I don't do trades but if someone goes out of their way for me like you did for her. they will be treated to something nice in return.

It sounds like besides the blue balls you felt like as soon as the shoot was over she rushed you out and could have been more hospitable during the shoot.

Steph xoxo

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 10:18:57 PM

Since you offered to do the work for free, she doesn't actually owe you anything. But, you can also ask for a return favor. She may decline, but what do you have to lose? You might ask for a discount on future dates or maybe she could help you get more business from paying customers.

I've been in and out of the game for a long time.  I started off young as a nice and happy ho... then I went through a rough patch and my choices took me to the dark side of the business where everyone is predator AND prey.  I've lived it, so I know it's there.

with an additional caveat.

Now he's even more dangerous to himself.  He has just enough experience to think he knows what he's doing.

While she should maybe be more grateful you did tell her that it was free. I think this is one of those "you live and you learn" experiences. Next time offer your services in trade for time with her if that's what you want. You offer a service just like she does and there's nothing wrong with a little bartering. It's a win-win.  
 

Posted By: niceguysfinishlast

I recently had a wonderful first time appointment with a provider.  During the session, she discovered that I was a pro photographer.  She asked if I would do a boudoir photo shoot for her as she needed new photos for her website.  I am the friend you know that often offers favors without thinking them through due to a naively generous nature.  I said yes, I would do it for free.    
   
 Two weeks later she books a hotel room and I show up for a 2 hour on location shoot complete with my studio lighting and pro gear.  I normally charge $1,600 for an on location shoot including unlimited post production.  As such, since I did say it was for free, I went forward with my promise.    
   
 The shoot was a strenuous one, lots of repositioning, room furniture adjustments, outfit changes, and tight angles due to the cramped quarters.  I was working up a sweat and at the same time, was very turned on as you can understand.  I was half expecting to fool around a bit after the shoot, but would let her take the lead on it since I offered this service for free.  Alas, blue balls it was.  At the end of the shoot, she indicated to me that she had not eaten all day and was dying to get some food.  I was politely ushered to the exit.  the blue balls build up was so intense that I actually ended up booking a last minute appt right after the shoot with a favorite provider locally.    
   
 After the session, I spent time touching up a good number of excellent photos for her, with manual masking of face and other time consuming fixes.  She had initially made a mistake and selected the wrong set of photos for touch up.  I had to touch two sets of photos up in the end.  Total post production was two hours.  Now she is very happy, after just five days, she has a new set of professional boudoir shots at her marketing disposal.  
   
 As for me, I received a single thank you text consisting of some emoticons and a separate email consisting of a similar one liner thank you.  
   
 I like to think I live in a world of "give and take" whereby outside of a hobbyist / provider setting, if a favor of significant magnitude was offered and taken, even when offered for free, it is to my mind, a must to make the offerer of the favor feel truly appreciated.  How that appreciation is shown is up to the favor recipient.    
   
 I am not sure what I was or am expecting in return, hence this post.  I want to see if hobbyists and providers out there think how I should feel about this encounter.  I am truly hoping that she (the subject) does not read this post as I mean no offense and have absolute discretion.  I am just curious to know from this forum whether I am justifiably feeling discontent about this situation.  
   
 Some might say that if I wanted something for something, I should have just suggested a trade.  At the same time, I know of very few people who would just accept a huge favor with zero voluntary reciprocation (outside of a texted "thanks").  It is just not how life works (or should work) in my opinion.  
   
 Alas, a small point, but during the two hour shoot, I was not even offered a water or a beverage.  And we were in a hotel suite.  Even a contractor or landscape laborer is often offered such a small nicety.  Suffice to say I just feel a bit used and abused.  It has now been a week since the shoot and since I have not heard from her, I am thinking that our transaction is complete and all sides satisfied at this point, at least from her view.  
   
 Thanks in advance to everyone who weighs in  
   
   
   
   
   
   

I'm not a pro, but I do a lot of model shoots and get requests to shoot models...

This post summed up exactly how I feel and what had happened.  The perspective does make me feel a whole lot better.  In the civvie world, I often forget how pretty girls have for likely most of their lives had things and favors granted to them simply by men who have similar intentions as is did.  She probably took my favor the same way.  

You offered to do it for free.   She accepted.  See, a message can be given in just a few words....