Ya know something I never really thought about until someone pointed it out to me yesterday was the stigma that goes along with being a non-drinker.
I have two friends who are non-drinkers. It's just a choice, and nothing more. Just as some people smoke, and others don't.
Yet we don't seem to care if someone's a non-smoker, but make comments when someone's a non-drinker.
One is male, the other is female, and they both told me how annoying it is to get the comments, and to have people assume that they must have drinking 'issues'; or was/is in a 12 Step Program, etc. etc. My guy friend is an active Marine, so you can imagine the teasing and prodding he gets.
After they've both told me this, I have to admit that anytime I've run into a non-drinker, I've assumed past issues also.
So, why is that? Why do we do that? Why do we bug people if they don't drink? or make assumptions? We don't care if they're non-smokers...??

I rarely drink.  I like a good wine with a special meal, maybe a port or brandy afterwards, and maybe a fine scotch three or four times a year.  But, but and large, I don't drink.

When my late wife and I were in a pipe band, consisting primarily of Scottish and Irish men and women, almost everyone drank -- many drank heavily.  On days when our band attended a competition, usually in the heat of the Summer, our band's area was so full of beer-laden coolers, one could walk from one side to the other without touching the ground.  My cooler, however, was filled with Gatorade.  Of course, it was assumed that I didn't drink, and that I was a recovering alcoholic.  I'll never forget the look of shock one evening when some band members and we had dinner, and I ordered wine.

One thing I HAVE noticed, though, is that I get much less -- in fact, almost no -- pressure from others to drink.  I also find that more and more people are opting to either drink less, or to not drink at all.

One thing I'm happy about, is my son has picked up on my lack of interest in drinking, and he, too, usually takes a pass.

Funny thing about assumptions. My mother is a non-drinker due to her strict, fundamentalist upbringing. So guess what I assumed when I would meet non-drinkers?

and I don't drink any less.
Cheers!
and while we are on the subject....

A huge muscular man walks into a bar and orders a beer. The bartender hands him the beer and says, "You know, I'm not gay but I want to compliment you on your physique, it really is phenomenal! I have a question though, why is your head so small?"

The big guy nods slowly. He's obviously fielded this question many times. "One day," he begins, "I was hunting when I got lost in the woods. I heard someone crying for help and finally realized that it was coming from a frog sitting next to a stream.

So I picked up the frog and it said, "Kiss me. Kiss me and I will turn into a genie and grant you 3 wishes." So I looked around to make sure I was alone and gave the frog a kiss. POOF! The frog turned into a beautiful, voluptuous, naked woman.

She said, "You now have 3 wishes." I looked down at my scrawny 115 pound body and said, "I want a body like Arnold Schwarzenneger." She nodded, whispered a spell, and POOF! there I was, so huge that I ripped out of my clothes and was standing there naked!

She then asked, "What will be your second wish?" I looked hungrily at her beautiful body and replied, "I want to make sensuous love with you here by this stream." She nodded, laid down, and beckoned to me. "We then made love for hours!"

Later, as we lay there next to each other, sweating from our glorious lovemaking, she whispered into my ear, "You know, you do have one more wish. What will it be?"

I looked at her and replied, "How about a little head?"

A guy walks into a bar mid-day.  There's no one else there but the bartender and a woman sitting at the far end of the place.  The guy says, "Give me a double martini, and give that douche bag at the end of the bar whatever she wants."

The bartender takes offense, and says, "Sir, we have a very elite clientele here.  I don't care for you refering to the lady as a douche bag."

The man says, "I'm sorry.  I've had a rough day.  Just give me my martini, and give the lady whatever she wants."

The bartender gives the man his drink, then walks down to the end of the bar and says, "That gentleman would like to buy your next round, Ma'am.  What are you drinking?"

The woman replies, "Vinegar and water."

OMG - my holistic practitioner wants me to drink warmed vinegar and water every morning in place of my usual coffee! LOL
So far, I can't bring myself to do it!

Guess I'll be an ol' douche bag, when I do, though! LOL

It's a common thing for people to attach the drinking "problem" to someone who does not drink. Funny how we don't say a non-smoker must have had a smoking problem. Still, experience tells us that a lot of people who don't drink probably did once have some problems with the juice. It's a common thread amoung people and it shoudn't carry such a stigma, yet it does.

I saw a lot of that when I was in the service back in the 70's.  Official squadron beer bust's sponsored by the commander and the officers.  Before I got out they realized they had a problem.  A lot of people were alcoholic's. They were covering up for a lot of the old timers that were a year away from retirement.  So they started drug/alcohol classes usually taught by reformed alcoholic's.  Also, if you had a drinking problem they gave you two options.  Go to rehab or get booted out.  It took care of a lot of their problems.

As me me I don't drink that much at all.  But a glass of champange or wine, soft music and dancing with interesting woman is a lot of fun.  I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic.

I could care less if someone doesn't drink or smoke by simple preference, but sometimes the "ex-types" drive you crazy.

Once, while on a first date, the waiter handed my date the wine list. My date explained he didn't drink anymore because of a drinking problem from the past.

I told him congratulations for overcoming his problem; I then ordered a glass of wine for myself when the waiter came back.

My date gave me such an offended look, and I realized that he was one of those fanatical ex-drinking types I've met before, those who are still obsessed about anyone drinking.

Sometimes ex-smokers act just like that too and start lecturing if someone lights up around them.

Everyone knows it's not healthy to drink to excess or to smoke. I don't ever point this out to smokers or to alcoholics because it's plain rude; but for some reason some "ex-types" think they must pass the message along because they've been "saved".

I've been in the exact same circumstances, and he, too was offended, but I think it's because they might expect you not to drink out of respect for them. And I'm not sure I understand that one..
Likewise..
I'm not a vegetarian now, but over the past 20 years have been a veg off and on. I didn't ever 'push it', or preach it, or even mention it for the most part. But it's amazing to me how, not so much lately, but in earlier years, people used to harrass the living sh*t outta me for being a Veg. Never could understand that. I mean, I don't bother you about what you eat, or do, so leave me alone - I've had to say, only because they've pushed me to it. Oh! This reminds me, too, of a huge to-do banquet honoring (get this!) Law Enforcement(!) that I had attended in the 90's as a guest. The news media, etc was there, and the attendants came to the tables taking everyone's dinner order which was a choice of steak, chicken or a vegetarian plate. I'd say there were maybe 8 people at each table, and there was only 1 person at our table who had ordered the Veg plate. The entire time this woman ranted and carried on to the rest of us how terrible we were, and cruel, and selfish and just read us all the riot act. As I said, I was someone's guest, but, as she sat right next to me, I was getting more and more annoyed and was about two seconds away from saying 'can you put a muzzle on it, already!?'!
Live and let live..

between smoking and drinking. the former physically impacts those around you, the latter doesn't

i wouldn't lecture a dinner date who lit up a cigarette, i would simply get up and walk away, leaving her with the bill.

smokers don't understand second-hand smoke. frankly, i have more sympathy and respect for a heroin addict. at least his poison doesn't end up in my blood stream!

but let us not fret, smokers are a dying breed  

Ah yes, Sedona..

I too have run into this without realizing I was being stigmatized until recently!!

I prefer not to drink alcholic beverages, not because I am an alcoholic or an AA person but because I don't like the way I feel if I drink.  I get a headache and I don't sleep well. I figured that out at 28 and I just stopped. I MAY taste a wine here or there, but I TASTE, that's it.

I have a refrigerator with a bunch of Sierra Nevada and Coronas and a counter with at least 5 bottles of assorted tequila, rum, whisky, gin.. I have NO PROBLEM with people drinking... I'll drink a juice drink at a bar to go with the flow if it's necessary.

I just feel ICKY when I do, so I don't.

Also, I don't need to be in an altered state to enjoy intimacy and physicality involved if and when a date progresses to that point.  I date so very rarely ~I'm up to 6-8 times a MONTH!! That when I find someone I want to date I'm usually raring to GO~ No priming necessary!!

*smoooch*
Elise

I agree with the gist if your post, but as for the ex-smoker lecturing if someone lights up around them...I say lecture on.

You have a glass of wine and we can probably assume that you will not have any impact on anyone else at the table for doing so.  Can't say that for the smoker.  They ruin my enjoyment of my wine, my food, and my comfort.  They stink.  What would you say to someone who sits at your table and farts up a big shimmering green cloud to go with your Cabernet?  Or your Big Mac for that matter?

Smokers suck in more ways than one. It's a filthy habit and one that should be done such that nobody else knows your doing it, kind of like picking your nose.

I'm pretty much a non-drinker, and it's not by choice.  I think I'm just allergic to alcohol (or certain types) where I just go straight to hangover (and skip getting a buzz or anything pleasurable).  My face gets flush and sometimes it gets hard to breathe.

Sometimes it get so frigging uncomfortable hanging around people I know who drink (and they know I don't drink), is that when they get drunk, the teasing and prodding increases expontially (where they think it's other reason why you don't drink).  Then the floodgates open up where they divulge everything they're annoyed about you.  It's really hard to reason with a drunk person.

I have been a non drinker by choice for many years. I guess I am jusy naive, but I dont remember all that many times when I have been questioned when I order a juice or a coke when everyone else is ordering alcohol. I just really dislike the loss of personal control, and prefer to keep my wits about me.

I suspect that many non drinkers will join me in a pet peeve. I do get miffed when those I am with(or not with, for that matter) assume that since they have a non drinker along, it is a license to get sloshed because I will take care of things if they cant. It wasnt long ago that a freind? got really angry when he found himself in the custody of local LE in the morning after aparently losing himself to wanton abandon after I had gone home. He called me and chewed me out for "not taking him home when he was losing control". Just because I choose not to drink does not mean that I am a recovering alcoholic, a baby sitter for drunks, or a full time designated driver. I'll help when I can, but personal responsibility is where its at.

Jon

and possibly time for new people to hang with!

Sedona,  Just a sort comment.  I always like to bring a bottle of wine when I see a new lady.  I have never met so many women in any walk of life that don't drink as providers.  I really often wonder just what is up.

SlowStart

-- Modified on 6/30/2003 12:01:13 AM

look at Andrew Luster.  i bet many women would never suspect he was spiking their drinks.

My Vegetarian girlfriend lives in Israel and we were touring around during my visit there and this day we were in Jerusalem exploring the old city..

I accidentally took both her and my daughter through the meat market... and there in the middle of the desert in the middle east the meat market is basically where they've freshly slaughtered hung the bodies and are at the ready to cut the meat into the portion the consumer wishes.

OOOOOOOPS.   I wasn't ever a big meat eater, so eating meat in front of my girlfriend wasn't a problem, but taking a wrong turn in the old city and we were literally stepping across a river of BLOOD and walking past tables of fresh goat & sheep brains, lips, tongues.. you get the picture..

OOOOOPS.   My vegetarian girlfriend is always a joy to go to a restaurant with, but she'll NEVER let me forget the day we took a wrong turn in Jerusalem.

*smoooch*
Elise

It's interesting the reactions you get. I was never much of a drinker to begin with and when I found out I was diabetic it cut it to zero. You will rarely see me drink anything but water and sometimes the reactions I get do run into weird assumptions. Since I don't usually hang out with people and go to places that there would be much drinking I found that when I first changed my drinking preference the first place I got reactions were from strip clubs. The dancers themselves seemed a little surprised to find someone sitting there with only water. I occasionally get the same reaction from coworkers when I do wind up at a function and I still order water. I don't know about the assumption that I was an alcoholic, but sometimes I do get the feeling that I'm being seen as anti-social. I often explain why I don't drink and I get an Ahhh I see reaction.
Whatever, just my 2 cents worth

ShuadChaun

A very good point. As soon as you say you're not drinking tonight, they point to you in the group and say 'Good, here's our Designated Driver'...No....

There are those who do, and those who don't. But, it's always wise to be aware of your glass, no matter where you are and who you're with.
The gentleman who do provide something to drink can put the lady at ease by starting with an empty glass and having it visible while being filled. And this is true for anyone.
Where was it - New Orleans? - where "Providers" had slipped something in the guy's drink and then robbed him?
So, wise to be cautious..

Time out.  

I need to comment on a couple of things I've read here (and I am not a zealot reformed drinker).  I have a drinking problem, so I have chosen not to drink.  I've gone to AA, but it doesn't make alot of sense to me.  I am however offended and distressed by a couple of things mentioned here.  Flame away if you will, but on behalf of others with problems (of any kind), please be sensitive to a couple of things:

1.  Is it really a stigma to be viewed as an 'ex-drinker' (or ex-anything) when you had a HUGE problem that you worked hard to control?  I hope not.  It should be a stigma when someone with a major drinking problem continues to drink, thus f***ing up his/her life, and the life of those around him/her.

2.  Regarding 'expecting' a companion (civilian or otherwise) not to drink when you aren't....  Please understand that many folks who are trying not to drink have very intense cravings for alcohol that are made worse by being (dining, making love, etc) with someone who is drinking. Some people are way too embarassed to talk about this, but might appreciate the opportunity to explain.  Don't assume they are uppity, stingy, or anything similar.  They might just be hanging on by their fingernails.  

It doesn't bother me if someone I'm with wants a drink, but it drives me nuts when they try to convince me to have one too, or seem offended when I won't.  I'm better off with my O'Douls.

Don't mean to bring anyone down, but there is another POV.....

Cage

No, I can't see anything in your post that would incite flaming..I think it was very good, and makes perfect sense.
I was married my first time when I was too young. He was 10 years older and a recovering (dry) alcoholic. Our life centered (for him anyway) around AA - and I, as his wife, was an active participant.
Then, my 21st birthday came around (and I was still married to him), and we went out to dinner and he said to order some wine, or something. My parents were the strictest, straight-laced, Fundamentalists ever, and I grew up not seeing alcohol or anything in my home, so I didn't even know what to order, so ordered wine. But, it was his comment that I remember, even now. Go ahead and have some wine, and I won't mind if you do..
I wondered why he would mind - what does what I have to eat or drink have anything to do with you?? And I did ask him that. And I think this is greatly what you reveal in your point # 2. Because I didn't understand..
Now, we women, who are on perpetual 'diets' of some sort can understand when you make the point in regards to FOOD! LOL! If you go to lunch with your girlfriend/workmate and she is a Carb Addict, but is on the Atkins and you end up at the Spaghetti Factory! You're enjoying your whopping pile of pasta at the same table where she is struggling with a Chicken Salad! We comprehend that kinda stuff! LOL LOL And, you're right. We don't all think of alchohol in a 'craving' sense - that it could be agony for someone to watch someone else enjoy 'one' glass of wine! (one's too many; a thousand's not enough..)
And, for me, it isn't that I'd 'forgotten', it's more that I forgot to remember..So, thanks for that - for all of us..
I think my original post was intended more about simply bugging people for NOT drinking, or assuming WHY..and as to why we do that?! and let's live and let live..

So, again, I think that's a great post, and thank you..

xo,
Sedona

Thanks, and the 'one drink is too many, 1000 not enough' quote is right on.

If you are in San Diego (I lived there for years, and Sedona ain't bad either), hit the beach for me.

Maybe I'll look you up next time I'm out there.

I hoist an O'Douls (even though I wish it was a Bass Ale) to you!!