Okay, it's the age old dilemma : You can't see a provider unless you have a reference, but you can't get a reference unless you see a provider.  
 
Classic Catch-22!  
 
Just like you can't get a job without experience, but you can't get experience unless you have a job! Arrhhhg!!!    
 
Here is my dilemma -- the "agency" I last worked with doesn't give out references and my other past providers have disappeared or can't be reached.  I'm not a regular hobbyist, having been gone from it for awhile.    
 
So how does one get back in the game???  

Will joining P411 work?  How much does that cost?  I don't want to end up spending significantly more just to prove how I am.
 
I understand the need for caution, but at the same time it's quite frustrating for those of us in similar situations like mine.  I would gladly scan and email my driver's license if that's what it took (it that's not a show of trust I don't know what is!).  

Thanks all!

have other ways of verification other than references from other providers. In fact, some don't rely on references at all. It does help if you can join P411 (I think its a little over 100 a year) and obtain some provider okays there and on the Whitelist here. But there is the old catch 22. My advice, join P411, do some research on highly rated provider ads that you may want to see and that don't mention a reference requirement in their ad or even say they have other ways of verification, contact the provider in the way they request in their ad, see the provider and mention after that you will be requesting a P411 okay and TER White list okay but only after you write a review, write a review and wait the 3 or so days for it to be approved and post, contact the provider and ask for both a P411 and Whitelist okay.

Several ways to obtain references for the first time, if you really are serious and willing to do the work their are ways to get you started, as you know references are in the hands of the ladies and ladies alone and believed me it's not an easy task to do, because references is the only tools they have to protect themselves their own safety/security health and lives depend on it and majority of them reely on one another and been very successful.  

Suggestions for you, might work might not, but worked for me.

-Write a sincere, honest, respectful email to the one you choose to have a date with and up front reveal that you don't have NO references but you are truly interested with her and ask recommendation from her where and how can you get reliable, verifiable acceptable reference for her, and most of the time she'll refer you to someone, whether an escort or FSBM and believed me these places are tighter than any nuclear facility you will be check out be treated fairly, so behave accordingly, follow the rules most YMMV, otherwise you'll be kick-out and wind up with nothing, This is your first test how bad you want the refs.

-Concentrate on the ladies that advertise "I'm a newbie friendly" it's not as painful like the first one butt still need ample of screening via lots of questionaires and exchange of communications back in fort checking your responses and verifying you if you are truly trustworthy to take the risk with, this one is a long shot, but their is possibility. again your sincerity and honesty is the key to the door.

-The well established FSBM is the other sources, when you visit always follow the rules and before you leave be respectful and humble enough to asked if they can vouch for you in the future and ask few info, like handles,email address and business numbers, these one rely on the golden rule, it's up to you

-Workplace verifications is not always secure and private but the ladies loves to use it, because again safety/security is their concern.

-P411 doesn't cost that much for membership but still needs at least two references needed to be approved for membership, to join the club. so ??

-It will take hardwork, challenging yes, but the reward are enjoyable being on the dance floor choosing whomever you want to dance with, all worth the effort, do you homework man and good luck, wish you success, works for me.

P.S. Save water shower together

Your going to have to give real world information to see a provider now and starting building references.

What do you mean by "real world information"?  Like a copy of a driver's license?

Guys, please don't cave into this reference B.S.   We, the men hold all the power when it comes to this, if nobody does it, the gals will have no other choice but to cave in.  In general, women hold all the power with their pussies, the amount they charge, the length of the session, getting the money up front, don't let them take it one step beyond.  Just don't do it, and just see the ones who don't ask or require it, and you will see this ridiculous reference thing come to an end.

It's all about standard man, if I get what you are saying is; you don't believed in the importance of references, well I hate to say this to you but seems to me your standard does not match from most of us, because to start with, we, some, and most of us always go after the highest quality of products that are advertised all the stores and most of the products we are after at least gives us a certain gaurranty that you are getting the highest quality of products. But for you, looks like to me, you wants us to shop at the thrift store down the corner, takes all the risk just to drive down there, places that are crime and drug infested, cheap motels constantly visited by LE, zero privacy and security, no quality control, very cheap. don't know what you gonna get, take all the chances, as is, easy for you, tough to do for us, but if that's what you want, good luck to you. I hate to disagree with you my man, but for some of us we still got good taste, standard, standard, standard, whatever your level is, non of our business, but for me and the gentleman that did the post I believed we know where we belong.

 

Your name
Place of work
# where we can call your work and ask to speak to you,
or your.name@WellReputedPlaceofBiz

Something like that.
It's not hard to find newbie-friendly providers, but you will have to give info like that. Good luck.
xoxox
H

WT# are you talking about power here, power there, are you out of your freaking mind, nobody I repeat nobody has the power to anyone, it's all a matter of choices and personal preferences, the BS you're talking about is one of the most effective way to have a safe and happy enjoyable date and it's been proven to be very successful. It's all about safety, security and privacy. I don't understand who's got more power here & there's no such fu##ing thing, it's a matter of personal rules and guideline inside a playing field, if you can not handle the rules of the game stay the f##k out hobbying and find yourself another things to do.

 
P.S. Save water shower together

joining P411. It is not expensive for the peace of mind you will get and give to the providers that use it to as part of their screening. I have been in P411 for years and I have never had to show my driver's license. So I suggest you stop wasting time and the bullshit about "what to do", save yourself the stress and join P411 and start meeting and having great sex with all of these lovely ladies on TER!

If you cannot afford the low cost of P411, then this P4P hobby is NOT for you. Go find something else to do.

Using the shopping reference above - you don't need references to shop at the flea market, but you know what you get when you shop at the flea market - FLEAS

References make the NorCal hobby scene better than anywhere else I've seen.  All medium to large cities have a p4p market, but most do not have the highly developed reference system that the old site provided for NorCal.  It is because of the reference system (and the price of  rent) that brings such a flood of providers to the p4p arena and keeps prices down.  When there are no references, many providers just don't feel safe enough to participate; the selection goes down and the price goes up.  98% of all the bad experiences I've heard from providers happened when references were not checked.  

Even though references can be a hassle and makes guys feel a little uneasy about exposing personal information - it really makes this hobby much more affordable for us in the long run, and safer for everyone.

There are several ways to prove that you are not LE or crazy, or violent, but some will still choose to shop at the flea market.

I have not seen any street walkers listed on this site, so I'm sure there are better places to find what you are looking for.

to references you can search for ladies that state in their ads and/or website newbie friendly but you will have to provide some type of info for screening.
Or as others have suggested join P411 I think for the guys it is $129 for the year.
Once you are a member of p411 you can search specifically newbie friendly providers in your area.
Check out P411 it will help you out.

While the reference system is one thing there is always other methods that some providers offer relying solely on references sometimes will cause an appt not to happpen or to be delayed.
Explain your situation in your correspondence to the providers you are interested in that you do not have any references and do not hobby frequently and if they have any other options for screening besides references.
And you are happy to provide your info more than likely you will get a response.
You might be surprised you never know until you try.
Good luck to you

Joining P411 is not that simple, in order to be approved you still have to provide 2 or more verifiable references or work verifications and provide copies of  DL or SSN & $ 129.00 YR membership and payments are little bit complicated, your credit cards has to be approved for international transactions and you have to  bank authorizations, unless you have a pre approved international credit cards. or send a NON-USPS money order to Canada, which is the billing offices for P411.

 

to see a lady that requires no references or screening and survive unharmed, kudos.
Just know she will not be a viable reference either. We don't just screen you through this process, the ladies you use as references are examined closely as well.

I don't take references from druggies, girls with pimps, girls charging next to nothing who themselves are not certified on one of the afore mentioned trusted sites and girls with bad, little or no reviews.  

I am the guardian of my well being and safety (as well as pussy), having a bad experience is tragic enough, knowing it's my fault and/or could have been avoided had I done my due diligence is unbearable.

It's a hurdle but once you get past it the p4p world is your oyster.
As far as women who require no screening and the guys who refuse to be screened, there's an old saying…
"Let the dead bury themselves".

END OF MESSAGE

... who understood that seeing an unvetted new client was a risk I was taking, and therefore provided absolutely concrete & verifiable workplace verification, and often took me to lunch prior to any more intimate contact, so that I could spend time feeling them out and judging for myself.

P411 is a great option, especially for clients who travel and see providers all over the country. I, however, do not accept a P411 account with no okays as a valid screening option, as P411 has been tricked into accepting fake credentials before numerous times. Any 3rd party screening service is only acceptable to me if you have numerous OKs and a good long history there. I'm happy to give P411, Whitelist, and Date-Check OKs to my clients, just as they're happy to write honest and discreet reviews for me.

In the end, the best way to jump the references hurdle is by being incredibly polite and understanding, and letting your chosen providers guide you through their screening options. Many potential clients, when confronted with reasonable screening requirements, start blathering about personal risk, identity theft, wanting to know my personal information, and so on. I would like to remind those clients that it is the providers who expose themselves to considerable risk of bodily harm, harassment, and arrest by seeing newbie clients, and not the other way around.

It is not that difficult to join. I provided work reference (which was simple), my DL # (which was simple) and mailed my money order (which was simple). Gina will call the ph# you provide and dispose of the information once your are verified. This is much simpler and safer than some of the things some providers ask for.

The idea that the women hold all the power is just ludicrous. What they do have is a larger share of the risk - both from dangerous clients and LE. References provide them an added measure of safety, which they really need. This also translates to more safety for the clients. Providers who are careful to check references are less likely to need a pimp to protect themselves from dangerous clients, and they are less likely to be busted by LE. This translates to more safety for the clients. There is less of a chance of getting robbed by a pimp or busted because of a sting set up with the help of a provider that has been busted.  

So Redball, stick with the backpage girls and streetwalkers who don't require references if you want. Just don't complain if you get robbed or busted.

Fucking unbelievable!

Talk about not giving a fuck about the lady's safety, let alone the comfort factor of making sure she's would actually ENJOY being in your presence behind a fucking LOCKED door.

It's ignorance like yours that make many of us demand screening with zero tolerance for any exception.  

 
And fyi, dud. Don't kid yourself thinking you hold any type of power of any kind, with any lady in this adult lifestyle. You may kid yourself into thinking that. But ignorance is bliss.

See, women who screen,  care not just about her own safety. But she gives a hoot about yours too. And those who don't screen you. Well, you just may end up in a bad situation that you can't phone home about. And if then, you'll have no room to come running to the masses to bitch about it.

Now, learn to give a damn about the ladies safety, and learn to respect the requirements they put forth, in order to see them and make them feel safe.

 
MPO