As previously brought up, I’m always saddened to see the lack of real discussion and conversation on the SF board here on TER, which is mostly filled with women posting their days of visits or new hours.  It would be nice to see some kind of discussion every now and then in addition to provider updates and information.  

Now, since I was the one to expose this matter yet once again… I shall be the one to bring up a question...

See the article linked.  

Now that voting is over and the ballots have been counted, I was interested in your thoughts about the failure of Measure Q.  Do you think that its defeat, in addition to Brazil’s public unveiling, will lead to a growing anti-provider/hobby world?  Perhaps more undercover investigations & stings?  Or do you think these two events will lack future influence on increasing LE actions/public detestation?

Here's to the SF board and cheers to a lively discussion!

Alluringly Yours,
Aliyanna

I thought the article was great.  I agree with you too Aliyanna!  I just moved here from Atlanta and the board there was great.  Most posts were from guys like me and the ladies interacted with us by posting too.  It was a great way to get your questions answered and to find your atf!

calls "indoor prostitution" is one that I wish the public in general would realize.

No, I don't think we will see increased LE activity because of either of these two events.  But the rise of the religious right will cause more LE activity in other communities in which the voters came out forcefully for Bush on Tuesday.

Wow, I didn't know you posted here.  

I've done my best to try to stimulate discussion here but it didn't go as well as I had hoped.  

Anywho, great article.  I agree with the previous comment about street prostitution vs indoor prostitution.  I think if prostitution wasn't "in people's faces," they wouldn't have as much to complain about since they wouldn't "know" what was going on.

Since Measure Q didn't pass, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a brief "spike" in LE activity since the topic of prostitution is now on the forefront of some people's minds and they might expect some reports of LE "doind their job" (i.e. cracking down on prostitution) at least until they (the community) forget about the topic and move on to something else (like Iraq or something).  At that time, LE activity will possibly go back to current activity levels if not drop a bit.

What I don't get is the busting of massage parlors if there aren't any complaints from neighbors or any "problems" requiring LE to show up. SO, if the clients getting massages aren't acting out of line, parking where it is ok for them to park, not disturbing anyone, etc., then why bother?  Maybe it's more political than anything else?

Another interesting question is how does Brazil's relate to Measure Q *not* passing, if it does at all?  If Brazil's situation was kept private (not covered in the media), would Measure Q have passed?

Peace...

I don't think so, however, with this Tom Ridge guy and homeland security claim, if the govt came across us hobby people, would they act upon it?  There are so many problems in this country, you hope not, but this stuff makes for big headlines and the govt's claim that they are trying to clean the country up. And we hobbyists try to avoid the spotlight and don't put up a fight.  I saw two people being interviewed after the measure Q election and they voted against it.  They seem like regular people who don't want condoms thrown out onto the street, in front of playground and schools, etc.  One guy said if the street stuff was legalized, other crimes follow.  I see his point too.  This is a good question.

Interesting article indeed. I am of the opinion that Indoor and massage parlor activities should be allowed. After all it is between two people by choice and not by force. It is private and discrete so, why bother. Isn't there enough crime issues for the Law Enforcement to deal with?

I have seen many providers and never thought of it as prostitution. Always thought of it a sensual activity between two consenting adults by consent. Never treated or viewed a provider of being prostitute either.

Unfortunately, we happen to live in decade of the so called "moral majority" who are trying to define morality based what  their own pea sized brain is capable of comprhending, I suppose.

Always wondered what is that the self styled moralists are afraid of, their own sexuality and marriage. I persume, by hating gays and lesbians makes their own sexuality and marriage more stable. May be because they are afraid and are seeking protection from the law and by forcing others to go along with them. There is no hope for humans, who cannot make decisions and choices on their own. I am  rambling here but I am pissed off by the whole damn thing, especially considering what happened on Nov 2.

I live in Atlanta but come to SF very often.

Cheers.

Aliyanna’s posting

Berkeley’s Measure Q lost, and provider Brazil was publicly unveiled.

Are we heading towards an anti provider and anti hobby world with more enthusiastic law enforcement?

My thoughts:

Firstly, I find today’s terms for prostitution interesting.
prostitutes = sex workers =providers
johns = client = hobbyist

I agree with Ronald Weitzer’s opposition to Berkeley’s Measure Q
1) The business of selling sexual
favors should not be done in physically public areas
2) Measure Q does not protect sex workers for “victimization” or violence against women
3) Indoor sex, or the solicitation of sexual favors in brothels (massage parlors, strip clubs, etc.), yellow pages escort services, or via the internet is the future and the preferred way to go.

Mr. Weitzer encourages that LE adopt an unwritten policy of nonenforcement against indoor prostitution and advises against sting operations.

Brazil was “caught’” for she was indiscreet and presumably broke multiple laws: prostitution, money laundering, and tax evasion.
Brazil claimed to have both law and business degrees and probably organized her financial matters in a way difficult to trace. A modern day sexual provider must walk a very fine line. Remember, Al Capone was busted not for racketeering but for not paying his taxes.

Americans have reelected Bush. The far right evangelists provided the votes and expect favors in return. So, some sort of moral crusade will occur. But we are so unmoral – drugs homosexuality and gay marriage, pornography, gyrating MTV adolescents, advertising using sex to sell, ultra violent video games and movies, random shootings, reckless driving, driving under the influence -all the devil’s work. Oh, where to begin?

More aggressive LE regarding selling sexual favors will threaten to return. Will Bush cast the first stone? Not with his past! Ashcroft is scary but rumor has it that he will resign. “ With moralist redeemed, he can confidently return home”.

Enforcement of laws involving selling sexual acts for money has always come in cycles. Under SF’ s Mayor Brown, LE was not aggressive and will probably remain so with Mayor Newsome. 15 years ago under Mayors Moscone and Feinstein, LE was against prostitution was active in SF.

LE seems to get a kick, busting women who sell sexual favors. Local politicians, DAs, Chamber of Commence do gooders make public statements about the low moral values of selling sexual favors. Then along comes another bust, and who is the john? Yep, the above.

Prostitution is heading off the street and utilizing the internet, strip clubs, and yellow pages escort services.

I refer you to an article.
Reference: ”Call Girls, Updated; How Technology Is Changing an Age-Old Business”
Andrew Jacobs New York Times October 12, 2004

Indoor prostitution via the internet and escort services is the future. Prospective clients (hobbyists) are prescreened. However, victimization on both ends will still occur, and LE will continue to mistreat sexual providers who are abused by a client, madam, or pimp. This is a risk in the business.

Screening services like the Erotic Review offer adjunct
help to evaluate a solicitation. Providers can use similar services to screen prospective clients.

Given today’s social mores, the end of high school dating and the increasing prevalence of casual uncommitted sex or “hooking” among teenagers, there will be an increasing
amount of attractive and willing providers as girls become young independent woman and realize how much poor the job market is and benefits are. Working retail is boring. Aggressive, attractive young women who are internet savvy will pursue a short-term career as a sexual provider.  Risks exist: extortion by internal hackers, discovery by a boyfriend or parents, client abuse, and arrest for before mentioned crimes associated with an underground service.

Reference: “Friends, Friends With Benefits and the Benefits of the Local Mall”
Benoit Denizet-Lewis New York Times, May 30, 2004

So, use the internet but be cautious. Enough said.

Fun and Games
Love and Peace
K