Roxanne,
Maybe I am the only one, but I actually think more interesting than even this hot-button topic is your comment that both your mom and dad are homosexual. Were they married? Have they always known that they were gay? At what age did you know one or both were gay? How did that affect you growing up?
Q : Should gay marriage be legalized?....
As a "Gayby" (both my Mother and Father are homosexual); I would like to hear your thoughts on this sensitive political issue.
XO
Roxanne
Not so much because I think it is "super important" for it to be up here...but because I remember when these boards allowed ALL discussion on them, and were MUCH MORE INTERESTING than they are now.
My personal feeling is yes...but I have a better question...
unless you are religious and feel it is wrong on moral grounds, why SHOULDN'T it be?
-- Modified on 8/16/2013 7:18:49 AM
Gay marriage …. crossing a line? I guess in your question you also include legalized partnership that provides legal consequences of marriage. (Marriage in church is in most cases out of the question). Of course, they love each other like any man and woman can. They should of course also have the same legal rights as anyone else. Once it is decided upon no one looks back because it is the right thing to do. And then once it`s done all the noise disappears.
Same sex marriage (legalized partnership) in northern Europe started 1989 and is in place in EU except for eastern Europe. In England it came in 2005. The US also was in front but then things turned backwards in 2008 in California. Why? The US was always ahead of Europe when it comes to democratic institution, politics and freedom.
Crossing a line…..May be I´m wrong but here is how I also look at it and compare it to other events. 100 years ago women’s right to vote could make the bourgeoisie upset and cause panic. I think these historical events can be compared to accepting gay rights today because these rights can upset people the same way as women`s rights could back then. (Men thought women couldn´t understand politics). Both ideas seem to be upsetting to the order of the society. Women´s rights to vote in general elections were completed in Scandinavian countries in 1915 and in California already in 1911!! Muslim countries are starting….
To say it again – once it`s done with no one looks back .Then no more noise, anger and demonstrations – just peace and other things to think about. Like this: Are people in general monogamous? The people that claim they are (outside this room of course) – are they really? If not, where is marriage going when lots of women make money than their men and power is shuttled around? I think that’s going to be very interesting
In this country there is suppose to be separation of church and state. But opponents and proponents have lost sight of the only issue that should be considered by the government. Those who oppose gay marriage do so usually based on some religious belief. But in America we should be free to follow our own religion and beliefs. And if church and state are truly separated on a governmental level it should only be about the tax status of a married couple. Again the government needs to stay out of our private lives if we are to preserve our freedom in this country. So in either scenario the government should not have a say in the matter. If they regulate marriage their only question should be the tax status of a couple. Since the government has not done a very good job in other areas dealing with benefits /taxes of other groups like illegal aliens, charities, special interests etc they are not yet in a position to make a judgement at this time. Saying no to gay marriage actually changes the playing field for tax revenues and benefits defined in the CFR since the gender is not defined. It only refers to a "married" couple.
Some other thoughts... not related to the "REAL" issue... In most of America when there is a divorce the male gets screwed. So gay marriage may also have an impact on how divorces are settled since it would be a gender neutral situation.
After being in the hobby.. Why would anyone want to get married? Putting religious beliefs aside. The benefits are, a tax deduction, Shared work benefits like health coverage for your spouse, Social Security benefits for the survivor and other "social" benefit programs. The down side is if the marriage does not work out it becomes an ugly separation of property. ( we are already seeing prenups in response to this down side). As we have seen if some one is going to "cheat". another moral issue. marriage is not going to stop that! And do I really need governments approval for my love of another? SO again the only thing the government should consider is the financial/tax status of a gay union.
Another thought why do we allow polygamy in the Mormon and other faiths? Why is it regulated by the government?
Is gay marrige a political issue? or a moral issue?
Such a good topic with so many considerations! Lets all have an orgy to celebrate
Your response was well versed, I agree on many points but most of all the orgy. Let's all fuck to celebrate freedom!
XO
Roxanne,
Maybe I am the only one, but I actually think more interesting than even this hot-button topic is your comment that both your mom and dad are homosexual. Were they married? Have they always known that they were gay? At what age did you know one or both were gay? How did that affect you growing up?
My parents were married in the 1980's at the heights of the AIDS revolution. They were friends in high school and both raised Catholic, naturally marrying each other was the way to go after my father's return from an over seas post in the Air Force. I have two younger siblings, and we were raised highly religious... At the ripe old age of 13 my mom started telling me it was OK to be gay... out of the blue while driving in the car she would always say "if you were gay I would still love you.....". Apparently I didn't pick up on the subtle hints that in fact- my make-up less, mullet & camo sporting mom would be cheating on my dad in a torrid lesbian affair..... Right after Christmas when I was 14 the cat was out of the closet.
The road to our now happy family went along the lines of;
Domestic disputes, a visit from the police, mom left for TX, hitting, screaming, divorce court, beat up relentlessly in high school, sexually abused multiple times, had to work 2 jobs in high school to help pay bills, helped raise my younger siblings, looked after my grandma & great grandma, cooked, cleaned, and never backed down from working towards a better life.... Much more happened but those were the key points*
I am now 22 years old. I am a well balanced Certified USDA Organic Farmer, student of Alternative Medicine, and a role model for all that have come from a tough life. I was never handed anything easily, except the ability to learn from the world around me. The ability to adapt and evolve is the only reason I have survived...
Thank you for helping me to look back at all that I have faced... My family is now very happy and we have all made it through some crazy experiences. I love them for helping me to see what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.
Roxanne,
I think all of us think we have had some trouble in our childhood, but your story helps to put that in perspective of how bad it can be. You have shown a lot of courage to share as much as you have with this community, which indicates you're indeed in a better place. It would be so easy for you to label yourself a "victim" many times over and just roll-over. But, instead you have chosen to fight through the bad hand you were dealt and make the most of your life. I, for one, am proud of YOU!
Based on your input, I guess I would say I am also NOT in favor of a homosexual man and woman marrying :
Your kind words of encouragement have brightened my day! I am humbled.
.
As a "Gayby" (both my Mother and Father are homosexual); I would like to hear your thoughts on this sensitive political issue.
XO
Roxanne
As a "Gayby" (both my Mother and Father are homosexual); I would like to hear your thoughts on this sensitive political issue.
XO
Roxanne
absolutely should be legal--no one is entitled to judge the sexual orientation of a person (except a pedophile or rapist--and then its about powere not sex)
So as long as people agree with you, it's cool? But if someone voices even the mildest dissent, they are asked to explain why? Really? It is not decision made on religious beliefs as often as you may think. The religious nuts are the ones we hear from the most though I agree. I know for me it's a personal choice and I don't have to defend or explain it anymore than a person who supports it. I respect their decisions even if I disagree with it. While I don't subscribe to the religious arguments against gay marriage, I will stand by and listen to them. Should gay marriage ever become the norm, I will tolerate it more than I would accept it.
I believe everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of unhappiness.
As a "Gayby" (both my Mother and Father are homosexual); I would like to hear your thoughts on this sensitive political issue.
XO
Roxanne
My little 25 year old half sister is getting married to her wonderful partner next summer. Washington State..it's legal there.
Some companies, like mine, already recognize civil unions, so even though you can't get gay married in California, partners can still share health insurance and some other benefits. There has been much progression with the LGBT marriage movement in the last 5 years. It's progressed very much faster than the civil rights movement.
For the fighters, pick your battles wisely because this one is not going away...time to move on
I think domestic partnerships should be the rule for everyone. Calling the union of two people who love each other marriage only serves to polarize the population along ideological lines. Religious people will save their sacred word "marriage" and it will be used only in a sense of ceremony as opposed to a legal status. Gay couples would be afforded the same rights but will not be able to go after religious institutions for not recognizing them. I'm sure there are more things to work out but it seems like a bunch of hoo haa over something that over 50 per cent of the population eventually regrets.
I can at least understand the logic here. If the purpose of marriage is procreation, then there is, at least, a logical connection to denying homosexuals the right to marry.
Of course, I'm assuming MrRoberts also believes that men who are sterile or women over the age of 60 should also be denied the right to marry. The same would go for anyone who has had an illness or an accident which resulted in their inability to procreate. In fact, now that I think of it, I have a friend who recently had to undergo a hysterectomy, she and her husband should probably immediately file for divorce, since their marriage can no longer produce offspring.
Mrroberts, correct me if I'm wrong in any of this....
I have made such an argument in the past and heard the same old,"....well what if the a heterosexual couple is sterile?" argument. The point is that's it's a physical impossibility. The fact is that a gay couple lack the remotest possibility(by nature) to conceive. I'm not trying to knock them or anything, just pointing out a fact. I am against gay marriage, but not against civil unions. I do want homosexual couple to have all the benefits that married couples have like visitation in a hospital, tax breaks, etc. My only gripe is I don't want to the word marriage used. We are NOT the same. Just my .02 cents
It sounded good, but I immedialy realized my error, but the deed was done. I thankyou for seeing the fallacy of my aurgument. I know in my narrow minded reasoning there has to be a valid aurgument besides stating marriage by deffinition is the union of one man and one woman. That is too simplistic and f@#%ing stupid.