In a previous thread there was a debate between myself & another TER member over whether-or-not BBBJ were riskier than DATY (as far as HIV transmission is concerned).

I stated that "Girl on Girl" Oral Sex is the LEAST risky & that "Cunnilingus" was next.  
He disagreed & said that DATY & BBBJ were EQUALLY as risky.  He feels that I am misleading you all & basically putting you at risk for HIV/AIDS via my misinformation.

    **PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO GO TO THIS SITE BELOW**

It will, once & for all, clarify this issue!!  Go to  the catagory enttiled "Safer Sex" then "AIDS/HIV", and then finally "Transmission".

****You will clearly see that it states the following:  "HIV is present in Vaginal Fluids (tears & saliva) in MUCH SMALLER QUANTITIES than in Seminal Fluid" *****

This was what I was trying to tell all of you out there that are of the misconception that BBBJ is just as safe as DATY.  IT IS NOT!!!  
As a nurse, I have been required to continue my education in the area of HIV/AIDS....Receiving the most up-to-date information in regards to transmission of this disease.  
I do know that it would require nearly 1 GALLON of Saliva to transmit HIV.  If you look at the "free condoms" website, it clearly places Vaginal Secretions in the category of tears & saliva...Not In The Category With SEMEN /Seminal Fluid!!

I want you to know that I am not trying to be arguementative ONEBUSYEXEC.  I merely want to clarify what could potentially have been some LETHAL MISINFORMATION..That Is All!!

*Thank-You to the folks at TER for Printing this Clarification*

Sincerely~Lara

Thank you, Lara for your post. Facts are facts, and decisions should be based on good, correct information. After that, it's just choice..
Nobody likes to talk about these things, and I think we all assume everyone's doing all the 'right' things, such as regular 6 month HIV testing, and more frequent STD testings, etc. So, I'd like to bring something up that is still on the subject somewhat? What about Hepatitis B vaccinations? Making sure you not only DEFINITELY have been vaccinated for HEP B but that it's been effective? Part of my daytime profession is being offered regular HEP B vaccinations to the employees and also checking to see if the vaccinations you had have 'taken' (called a Titers Test). I was horrified to discover that my vaccination done six years ago (and supposedly good for 10 years) was not present! So, how long have I thought I had the protection of a vaccination only to discover I didn't? You bet I'm on the list for the next visit! HepB is more of an immediate threat, being something like 100 times more likely to contract than HIV, however, obviously HIV is lethal, and both should be guarded against regardless of the odds.
Again, Lara, thanks for speaking up about this delicate but crucial topic.
Good health to all and

Warmest hugs,

Sedona

Ok, let me try this one more time.

Can one get AIDS from Cunnilingus = YES
Can one get AIDS from Felatio = YES

Is it safer to be with a provider who allows DATY(Cunnilingus) and dosen't provide BBBJ. = NO

What you're not presenting in your information or in most information on the subject is the incidence of contracting the disease via various behaviors within certain risk groups.

Certainly the vagina of providers has considerably more "traffic" than the vaginas of the test groups.  Whether wear and tear plays any significant role I'll leave to your own evaluation.

So, to restate my position once again.  It's absurd to me that a provider will take a stance against BBBJ and in the same vein, pun not intended, allow DATY without a dental dam.

Given your apparent passion about the subject, I'd think that you'd not only require a cover for a BJ, but a dental dam for DATY.

Please excuse me if I am missinterpreting things but...

I think Lara was presenting the data from the ladies perspective, while you were speaking from the mans perspective ( receiving DATY as opposed to giving a BBBJ, respectively ).

There are a lot of gentlemen out there who try very hard to encourage the bbbj and don't realize that this is very unsafe for the lady. Some of us ladies will allow DATY because the danger is not in our court.

Unfair?   Perhaps we should warn them of this beforehand? You tell me... We are only trying to protect ourselves. We don't go about that by listening to other men grovel and go on about how safe a bbbj is. We research and CONSISTANTLY play it safe. Therefore, instead of "trusting" the lady, maybe you guys should do the same.

Good luck and do play it safe!

You said -

:: So, to restate my position once again.  It's absurd to me
:: that a provider will take a stance against BBBJ and in the
:: same vein, pun not intended, allow DATY without a dental dam.

Absurd? Are you looking at this from a provider's point of view? In a BBBJ (assuming to completion), a sizable quantity of semen is deluged into the mouth - and possibly subsequently swallowed. In DATY you get some saliva on your clitoris. It would seem to me the dangers of BBBJs would be greater for the PROVIDER in this case.

I agree that to be truly safe, one must use barriers in all body fluid exchange. I do not agree the risks of RECEIVING daty are the same as GIVING bbbjs.

-- Modified on 11/29/2002 3:02:46 PM

Each individual must balance the risk with the pleasure.  The ultimate solution for the risk averse or those that don't feel satisfied unless BBBJTC or DATY takes place may be Rosy Palm and her five sisters.

Bad assumption.  If I meant bbbjtc I'd have said that.  I'm not talking about to completion.

and guys ALWAYS pull out in time, right? LOL.

If you can't see why girls who are concerned about their health might want to keep your little pal covered, I don't know how else to explain it to you.

-- Modified on 11/18/2002 10:28:00 PM

You might want to re-read my posts again.  I don't care one way or another if the girls choose to keep the little pal covered or not.  That's a personal choice they're making and have every right to make for their safety.

Besides, you haven't actually explained anything.

I want to re-state that I am taking the position of (as far as Risk of HIV Transmission is concerned) in Receiving DATY -vs- Giving BBBJ.  That is the risk that I have been trying to explain.  Thank-You Meagan for clarifying this!!

I can understand your hesitance ONEBUSYEXEC...But if We Providers "wrap-it" every time...Then why is it that "WE" should be considered a different category??  **Vaginal Fluid is Vaginal Fluid**  
You stated that "high traffic ladies" might not be included in the same category...What do you mean by this??  
I was simply referencing the written material on a Safe Sex Website that states that "HIV is present in lesser quantities in Vaginal Fluid than in Seminal Fluid".  They even put it in the same category as Saliva!  Something to think about, wouldn't you agree?

I agree that it is up to each individual to weigh the risks of transmission -vs- the pleasure they are seeking to receive/ give.  I, for one, save BBBJ for my S.O.  On the other-hand...I choose to allow my clients to DATY. It is something that EVERY ONE of my clients requests & it is something that I feel safe in allowing done to me.  I find it far too great a risk to give a BBBJ even if it isn't to completion since HIV is present in pre-cum.  
That's just my choice.  I honestly hadn't intended on pushing it on others.  I'm not here to judge or instruct.  I just wanted to try to help clarify things where HIV transmission is concerned.

Thanks For Listening!   ~  Lara

I need to jump in here... I tried to bring this up once before and have to thank Lara for addressing this topic.  (Thanks Lara)

Facts are:
DATY is not as much a risk for the lady receiving as for the client giving...vaginal fluids taken in are an exposure risk.  

BBBJ is not as much a risk for the client receiving as the provider giving one.  

Semen has higher concentrations of HIV than vaginal fluids... Both are sources of exposure.

My questions are:  what do clients think about the risks certain providers take who give BBBJ and swallow?  Are they (providers) more likely to contract and expose other clients to HIV/AIDS who DATY?  Do clients think (or care) about that?

Why do so many clients seem willing to "take the risk" and DATY without protection... ?  Is the pleasure worth the potential risk exposure?  

Is it enough as hobbyists to enjoy DATY safely and also try to reduce exposure to providers by accepting CBJ's as a practice (given vaginal fluids are have less exposure risk)  BTW,would it take a gallon of vaginal fluid {like salliva} to become exposed)?

Is there a way for both providers and clients to work out a mutual plan to fully enjoy giving and receiving while minimizing the exposure risks, without an attitude of "every person for themselves"?  If you are a provider who is willing to work this one out...let me know and I'll schedule an appointment with you.

These issues have always been in the back of my mind.  I welcome comments and points of view.