http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/12/16/MNGEA3O52I1.DTL&type=printable

What else can LE try to control in our private lives?

Reid you hear about this? I'm so outraged!

Saw an interview on CNN with the couple. They were extremely articulate. The commentators afterwards noted that Texas had just been hauled to the Supreme Court over private acts in the privacy of one's home and lost in a big way. It was speculated that this would be shot down in a heart beat, but unfortunately these seemingly good folks must go through the harrassment.

we will be back to the horse and buggy era as far a civil rights go. I have a sense deja-vu, back to a time when Reagan was President and Attorney General Ed Meese had his Porno Commission. Back then there was a great emphasis on prosecutions of porn peddlers and their kind. Funny how those things always seem to repeat themselves.

This has NOTHING to do with Ashcroft and any attempt to argue otherwise is paranoia.

This is just like the periodic attempts by LE to harass the local ladies. There's probably been some silly-ass complaint filed, or someone wants to get more funds in the local government, or it's getting close to election time, OR it's a diversion from something that they want to draw public attention from.

Let's face it, sex sells papers and focuses peopels attention away from other political issues.

A lot of Texas has laws that make "sex toys" obscene, it's antiquated, it's prudish, yea....it's just plain stupid. But it is the silly ass law.

Let's not go overboard about this, it's strictly a local concern for Texans. If you want to be outraged, post to a Texas board.

And PUHLEASE, everytime LE does something you think is wrong, quit trying to blame Ashcroft and conservatives. That's a BS viewpoint and it's a convenient way to avoid the real problems.

it's still appropriate to share here because people are interested and it's getting ridiculous the involvement (all) officials have in our personal business!

I did contact the company, based in CA.

And, there aren't TER Texan city discussion boards...

Its very prudish here in Virginia as well.  Dancers in clubs cannot even expose their breasts.  Also, oral sex is a crime even between husband and wife (of course that rarely gets prosecuted unless one of the parties complains).

So if you bust your nut in her mouth and she gets mad she could have you thrown in jail.

but there's nothing stupid about it.  Local LE, anywhere, does not operate in a political vacuum.  If they thought this was going to be laughed out of court they wouldn't pull this stuff.

Oh, and that silly ass law is the law in the state of which our president was recently governor.

Since Ashcroft was appointed & confirmed, every time LE and the LOCAL politicians do something, the US Attorney General (yes, John Ashcroft) gets blamed-or Bush-or some other childish diatribe against conservatives.

The stupidity of the argument seems to be that there's some vast conspiracy. Get a friggin' grip.

In THIS specific case, the law has been on the books LONG before Bush was elected and LONG BEFORE he was governor.

And, this specific issue has NOTHING TO DO with San Diego. As was the argument about confiscation of cars in El Cajon, the Federal government has NOT SQUAT to do with local LE enforcement of misdemeanor criminal activity.

I don't know why they busted the poor woman, I suspect it was an easy arrest and, like the LE stings in our community, it makes great news (again sex sells) and people publicly approve (even though privately they might disagree).

I have reservations about what the US Government does, but I'm not so blinded by hatred/dislike for the current administration that I cannot use reason to sort out the real issues from the nonsense.

If you're really worried about your "sacred" civil rights, I'd be more concerned about the extremists who feel that they have absolute individual rights, and to hell with the majority. As Jefferson said, "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform." --Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1811. ME 13:51

I'm more concerned about a politically motivated asshole who feels it is his duty/and sacred right to remove the hrase "under God" from the Pledge of Allegience, supported by a corrupt Federal Court, than I am about a woman who gets busted for selling vibrators.

The question is, will the ACLU be as actively involved in defending this woman's right to sell sex toys as they were to protect homosexual acts?

If you think LE is out to control your private lives, get out of town or state or country! Gosh! Go abroad and learn! Whoever agrees with this view of LE are twisted in the head!

It's all FEDS' Fault! It's GRAND CONSPIRACY by our government! Our Government is out to get you and take away your freedom! You people are so stupid!

It's bound by the rules of law, local, state and federal!

The question is, will the ACLU be as actively involved in defending this woman's right to sell sex toys as they were to protect homosexual acts?



Great point. I am curious to see if they have integrity or if they are hypocrites. My money says they sit by idle.


If you're really worried about your "sacred" civil rights, I'd be more concerned about the extremists who feel that they have absolute individual rights, and to hell with the majority.



This wasn't written for me. I would like to say that i don't like exchanging civil rights for safety against terrorism.
I would rather we investigate why terrorists want to attack us. See if any of our policies or actions are affecting our safety as a country. Then see if we can eliminate what is causing this backlash.

I agree the whole deal is stupid, but it is not all like that here in Texas.  There was recently a report on the San Antonio news about Internet Advertised Prostitution.  They listed several Escort Sites and called them prostitution.  While I was somewhat outraged by that statement, they went on to say that nothing is none about it unless someone complains.  Even the police made a statement that they had much bigger problems and as far as the internet, they were more concerned with petofiles and really had no interest in hassling these intetnet escorts unless they received specific complaints.  While the market is not as good here, at least they are not wasting their time and resources on trying to bust escorts and their clients instead of real criminals.  I only wish San Diego LE took that attitude.  They should devot their resources to criminal activity that is harmfull to others and leave consenting adults alone.  Just my two cents as a Texas resident and frequent San Diego visitor.

When they go after you for a simple blowjob in the WhiteHouse, doesn't it seem a little crazy to you? Maybe those people are not so stupid after all, BusyBoy!

In the time you have posted so much political drivel on this simple issue alone, you could have had a few providers for lunch! Hey, no one is trying to change your mind just as you are not going to change anyone's mind either, so give it a rest and hobby on-- that is what these boards are all about, Dude!

-- Modified on 12/21/2003 11:08:07 PM

The sex industry is not alone as members in the path of Ashcrofts terror.  Below is an excerpt of a recent letter from Greenpeace - one of my most teasured environmental advocasy organizations.  It is the Christmas season (hint, hint), also you business owners know it is getting close to the year end when you made need to find that last tax deduction or shelter.   MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

Greenpeace is on tial for standing up for what's right.  Please don't let the Bush Administration make us dit down and shut up for good.  

It may take a moment for what I'm about to tell you to sink in.

In a matter of days, Greenpeace will go on trial in a federal courtroom in Maimi.  With a fury remarkable even for the Bush Administration, the Ashcroft Justice Department has launched a no-holds-barred criminal prosecution aimed at silencing Greenpeace.  A conviction in this case could shut down Greenpeace as we know it in the USA.

We know you care about the enviornment and support Greenpeace to speak out for what's right.  But to be honest, we've never needed to demonstrate the strength of our supporter, who are the backbone of Greenpeace, as we do now.  That's why I'm writing to ask you, as one of our commited supporters, to stand by us now by making a significant year-end gift.

    So what's this trial about?

With your support, Greenpeace has fought for years to end illegal logging of mahogany in the Amazon rainforest and to stop its clandestine trade to the U.S. marketplace.  So when we learn of smugglers attempting to bring in illigal hardwood into this country, you can be sure that Greenpeace will be on the scene to expose the crime by using non-violent direct action.

That is the kind of protest activity that you have come to expect from Greenpeace-we stand up for the environment like no other group- and that is probably one of the reasons that you have chosen to support us over the years.

As in April 2002, off the coast of Florida, we did just that.  Greenpeace activitist stood uphe environment by boarding a ship that carried illegally looged mahogany from Brazil, wood unlawfully bound for the United States federal government, braking the US's own protective ban on importing brazilian hardwood.  Once aboard the ship, the activists unfurled a banner that read:  "President Bush Stop Illeagal Logging."  Greenpeace bore witness to the crime and paved the way for prosecution of the smugglers.  A trial is scheduled in the US federal district court in Maimi in a matter of days.  

Greenpeace stands up for what is right and full force of the United States federal government is brought down upon us to snufdf out your voice on the environment.  Our protesters were arrested, jailed for a weekend, and then released.  Normally that would be the end of it.;  But fifteen months later--relying on an obscure 1872 maritime law -- the US Justice Department decided to indict Greenpeach as an organization.
Unprecedented?  You bet it is.  Never before has an entire organization been prosecuted in federal court in this coutry for peaceful protest of its supporters.  But believe me, the Bush Administgration, and it's Ashcroft Justice Department leading the way, is coming after Greenpeace with everything that it has to stop our work on the environement.  Just a few weeks ago, Greenpeace's ship, ESPERANZA was prevented from entering the port of Miami while on an educationaltour, "a security concern" by the Homeland Security Authority!

Greenpeace needs your greatest financial geft ever right now to fight these charges and to continue our campaigns to protect the environment.  If the Bush Administration wins this case, Greenmpeace may be placed on a five-year probation that would silence your voice to peacefully protest crimes against the environment.  If we violate the probation, heavy fines could bankrupt Greenpeace in the U.S.  The threat is real-this really could mean an end to Greenpeace as we know it.

Of course the government doesent like it when Greenpeace is a thorn in it's side, but we should all be prouid to follow the example of Ghandi, and Martin Luther King.  Non- violent protest has a long tradition in the U.S. in bringing about poaitive change frojm the Boston Tea Party to the modern civil rights movement.  Non-violent protest forms the basisof how Greenpeace affects positive change in athe world.  But this right to protest is something that the Bush Administration is determined to take away from us.

I personally cannot imagine a world in which Greenpeace would be prohibited from excercising its right to peacefully protest environmental abuse.  that is why I pledge to you that Greenpeace will fight this indictment with every ounce of strenght that we have.  But Greenpeace cannot fight this battle alone.  If ever there was a time to stand up and be counted in the fight for the planet, it is now.  Please stand with Greenpeace with your best financial support so thast we can continue to stand up for the environment.

The stakes are incredibly high.  I hope you will consider sending an especially generous contribution- one equal to the task of helping one of the most effective and tenacious advocacy organizations in the world protect its ability- your ability- to speak out and bear witness to environmental travesties.  We need
your ongoing support, if we are to continue speaking out for the worlds oceans, for the whales, for air and waterfree of toxic pollutants, for a reduction in global warming, and for the protection of ancient forests worldwide.

The bottomline is this:  if the Bush Administration wins their case against Greenpeace, the planet loses.  Don't let them win.  Stand tall with Greenpeace by sending your best gift now.  

If I understood what you wrote, it seems that Greenpeace admitted boarding a ship while it was out to sea?

I believe that might constitute piracy on the high seas.

If such, not only should Greenpeace activists be tried, I suggest we resurect the tradition of hanging the pirates.

Greenpeace is an organization of environmental terrorists. You're no better than the militant anti-abortionists who shoot doctors that work at planned parenthood clinics, or create other deliberate acts.

Protesting PEACEFULLY is your right, however, when you cross the lines, regardless of the act, you SHOULD be shut down.


As the Dilbert book title says - Shave the Whales!!!!

But here's a tip if you want more on these boards to enjoy your screeds. Read a copy of Strunk & White's "Elements of Style". Your sentence structures are atrocious.

-- Modified on 12/22/2003 12:15:44 PM

How sad you are Jbird. Nice compassion.
Hanging people for doing whats right.
Lets twist the example a slight bit;
Someone grabs my neighbors kid. Puts the child in the car of the kidnapper. I witness the illegal activity. I follow the car in my own car. A red lite is in the distance. The kidnapper has to stop. I then enter\board the kidnappers car. Do you want to hang me?
You will counter that the laws of the sea are different then the laws on the land.
Substitute car and boat. No red lights. we will say the perp ran out of gas or had engine problems. I board his boat without his permission. Hanging time eh??
Greenpeace members are 180 degrees different than the people who protest abortions politically.


You wrote;
Protesting PEACEFULLY is your right, however, when you cross the lines, regardless of the act, you SHOULD be shut down


Perhaps that is what should happen to certain logging companies and the lobbiests that pressure the government to allow this.
Ashcroft should be shut down. So should the Bush adminitration. Further as you like to encourage, a hanging is in order for the treasonists; Bush, Rove, Rice, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, and the people who support such treasonist acts. You to are included...
Kayla took the time to write a heart felt plea for help and support. A lot of people care for greenpeace including myself.
You showed your lack of class, integrity, and any form of caring about leaving the planet in better shape then it was when you arrived on it.
The day is near that the forces of good will either prevail or be ridded from action via inprisonment or death.
If we prevail there will be no mercy for scum and the people who support them.

Instead of arguing my point, you shoose to distort the issue with an irrelevant example, then proceed to attack me because you support the illegal actions of an eco-terrorist organization?

Then you spew your Bush hating invection and attempt to rationalize it with some claptrap.

The issue is and remains, did Greenpeace baord a merchant ship on the high seas without the permission of the owners or the captain? If they did, that act constitutes piracy. The ship was carrying freakin' WOOD!  THE ONLY way your kidnapping argument might hold any legitimacy was if the ship was carrying human cargo (a slve ship). IF the ship was carrying human cargo as slaves, THEN you might be able to justify the boarding.

BUT IT WASN'T PEOPLE, IT WAS WOOD!!!!!  Then again, maybe you Greenpeacers are the environmental equivalent to the PETA crowd. Perhaps you feel that a tree is as good as a human?

Hmm...PETA and Greenpeace. I guess I'll go have some veal for lunch and break out the wood chipper and use some old growth lumber to mulch while I watch reruns of the swearing in of GW as President!

Get a clue, quit trying to divert attention from the issue. If you have no legitimate response, don't try and swerve the discussion away from the issue.

-- Modified on 12/22/2003 3:21:50 PM

Your still a sad man Jbird...
My take on boarding the ship illegally.
That ship was involved in a crime. The greenpeace members were attempting to stop the transport of illegal, and possible stolen material. That is a valid reason for boarding a ship.
That WOOD is called mohagony. Some of the trees were over a century old. Older than me. Older than you, and older than the smugglers. You should respect your elders. Even trees.
I could change the example to the ship was smuggling drugs into the country. Every bit as illegal as banned wood. Yes you, I, or anyone else who has the guts to board a ship\car\plane involved illegal activity can apprehend the perp or suspected smugglers in this case.
I am not familiar with PITA. I will refrain from commenting.
You need to get a clue. I provided a legitimate response. You choose to ignore it and continue bashing\disrespecting things that were here long before you were.
The Bush bashing was relevent. Kayla mentioned Ashcroft was preventing The Greenepeace ship from sailing for "security reasons". That is BS. greenpeace is no threat to national security. They are a threat to greedy thugs, so Ashcroft is flexing his muscle. Anyone who is a threat to Ashcroft and his treasonist plans for America is a "threat to national security".
The names I mentioned in ny last piece are commiting treason. They are actively working in the best interests of a small few, while ignoring the well being of the American Public. They are not enforcing the current immigration laws. They further want to change present laws to legalize these invaders, to keep the cheap labor their republican croonies want.
The Democrats are no better. They want illegals because they covet more democratic voters.
These treasonists (bush and the gang) are putting this country in harms way with their constant support of Israel. That is the only reason terror reached our shores. We send billions in money. We give heavily discounted weapons to Israel to use as they take over land that isn't theirs. What really pisses me off is that we have bilions for people in other countries. That our school districts are broke. My old highschool football league is now instituting pay for play. This is because they are broke. They photo copy material because books are out of their budget. The people you support would rather pay for a rogue state than care for the educational needs of their own countrymen.
Back to the main issue.
Trees are important. they are sacred. With the continuing rising population density,devolpers are wiping out the few last open lands. felling trees in the process. It is very sad. Part of the reason this is happening is the Bush administration wants the economic numbers up. Further development gives false hope that the economy is rising. More jobs, ect. However the only reason we're building is because the mass migration into this country from down south and other places as well.
I encourage you to think again about your lack of support for Greenpeace.These people care. They are taking the time to try and make a positive difference. Something far to many people overlook. Spend some time where clear cutting happens. I have spent plenty of time in Oregon and northern Cali. I like to fish. It is sheer horror to go around a bend in the river and look up and see completly nothing were their used to be trees. Sad. Just like your stance on this issue JBird.
You need some serious love in your life. People who support destroying our planet are usually filled with hate. Work with children, get a dog and venture into the forest. Smile.
If you still support ripping up the old growth forest as you said, then throw yourself into that chipper. Do the world some good.
I just reread what you wrote. You words are filled with hate.

Ashcroft and the Bush administration are also hot after the Greenpeace people for implementing their freedom of speech, maybe you can find out what their doing to them on their website?, I painstakingly rewrote a letter they sent to me regarding this issue at hand, however it didnt make the board, unfortunately, for whatever reason?  good luck!!! and shame on them too, for bullying and abusing their power!!! Luv Kayla xoxoxoxo
        These people could very well put "Greenpeace" out of commish!!!  I hope they don't succeed!!! I'm a firm advocate for freedom of speech!!!  And caring for our enviornment and world!!!

UhOh!!! Sorry, I jumped the gun when I said my message wasn't posted, oops!!! I just posted a message stating this, I was and am wrong, forgive me, will you, Sedagive, and all of you reading this post, wrong of me to jump the gun just because it took time to get on the board, my mistake !!! I guess everything's alright, and well done too!!!(I worry sometimes you know) & I hope you guys will help support Greenpeace in their efforts too, it takes all of us to make any real difference!!!! Luv Kayla xoxoxoxo