Ididher posted a lot of information about Kristine from Cancun Mexico, but he certainly seems much more suspect than the provider he was discussing.  

I took one for the team tonight and had a nice time with her. I found her to be a very nice latina who invited me to look her up when I visit her home town of Cancun.  I'll post my review later tonight, but I just wanted to clear the air about her while she is still here.  

I cannot think of anything worse for a visiting provider than to have a bunch of guys on TER hinting that she is LE.  Ididher, if you are so paranoid, take her out for a drink next time, instead of wasting her time (not to mention ours).

So, the girl you met was the girl in the photo??? I don't remember the other guy saying that she was a cop. He wrote that he was suspicious. If you had said you were going to see her, he may not have gone through the trouble. Take a chill pill.

If anything, this girl wasted MY time. As I said earlier, she would not even hint as to what i could expect as far as services go. If she does not like to answer questions, she should find another line of work. If she is FS for the $$, then good for you. Congratulations.  But, don't act as though I didn't give her the opportunity to give me a good session.
  maybe the next time i go to a provider with no previous reviews, I should just tell her I want to exchange sex for money. yep! That's the ticket.
  Like I said, if you got the goods, congrat's. but get off the soap box and settle down. Why do some people get so hyped up over the smallest things?
  I just looked at your review. There is no way that she is the girl in the photo. That face was probably pasted on and her hair is way too short and not anywhere near that style as in the photo. Oh well. Stll. Congratulations for getting FS for 150. Sounds like a bargain no matter what she looks like. I may try this weekend.

-- Modified on 2/20/2002 11:15:57 AM

-- Modified on 2/20/2002 2:42:22 PM

I was trying to use up an accidental extra copy of my review of Tania and I guess I did not correct the price entry.

She is definitely the girl in the picture, however it is a glamour shot photo which explains why there was such a difference  when you saw her in person.  I told her she ought to add a non glamour shot so that people do not have unrealistic expectations of her and she understood.  She thought that she was supposed to compete with the likes of Bridgette and Austin.  After laughing out loud, I set her straight regarding what a ripoff those two are.  She was amazed when I explained their MO's.

The point of my post was that it sounded to me like you were the one who was out of line when you mentioned HJ and BJ without giving her any reassurances that you were not LE yourself.

The normal protocol is for you to lay down the donation and for you to "get comfortable" (naked) before you ever mention anything  related to things that consenting adults do.   As she put it, you asked far too many questions.  Given that you had already been with another provider the same day, it sounded like you weren't serious about paying her anyways which is almost the same as a provider who prances and dashes with the cash.  Taking one for team means that you take all of the pitches and either get out, get a walk,  or get a hit.  You walked away from the batters box after three pitches and none of them were strikes, which is why I spoke up.

I went back to see again last night and had an even better time with her.  She was much more of a GFE than the first night as I enjoyed a very talented BBBJ, DATY, a lot of hot and heavy sex, as well as showering with her afterwards.  The reason why she may seem a little cold initially is that she is NOT a hard core professional who does this all year long.  She truly only does it when she is on vacation a couple of weeks per year.  She could not afford to travel on the salary that she gets paid back home in Cancun.  

Enjoy her while you can.  She won't be back for a while.

I really don't mean to be rude, and your comments are welcomed. But, I was going for FS. Why would I throw down the cash with only the possibility of a massage or a little more? Money is not at all an issue here. I went there with $$$$$ in the wallet just in case she required tips.
   I only go by that protocol when I am seeing a provider that I know,(due to reviews), will deliver. I was flying blind on this one.
  For the record, when she asked if I was a cop, I told her no. I also offered to do anything legal to prove it. There are many legal things that a hobbyist can do that a cop cant't in these situations.
  Maybe you were right though. Since I saw a really good provider earlier, I wasn't as hard up. Either way, I will try to see her saturday. Thanks for the tips. I think that the guys may need to call upon you in the future to check out more of the new talent as it arrives. Good job.

Can you tell me what it is that a "hobbyist can do that a cop can't in these situations"??

I don't mean to butt in, but I feel it necessary to comment on your posts.  First, any provider that answers questions, or even hints about services provided is just asking to be arrested.  I believe most providers would think you were LE if you started asking about that.  Second, offering to do something to prove you are not LE is meaningless.  LE has been known to drink alcohol, get naked, have sex with the provider, and then lie about it.  Believe it, because it happens.  Sometimes, if you want to see a provider that has not been reviewed before, you have to take chances.  Unfortunately, San Diego seems to have more than it's fair share of rip offs and I can certainly understand your reluctance.  Sedagive.

Sorry, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about. Has not anyone on this board beaten the rap before, in one way or another. Even the courts are aware that a cops words are not golden. That is why wire taps and video are often, if not always used. Even the cops don't simply rely on their own word. They know that they need back up in the form of an audio or video tape.
  It's not unusual for an undercover provider to ask the John if he has drugs. As though that would be ok. It's usually just another charge to plea bargain with. While direct words, such as sex, oral, blow job, etc. should never be used. Some slang, if used properly, can be used without fear of reprisal. we all must take a little time and read up on law and the latest precedents. I know it's a pain in the keester, but it's worth it in the long run.
  For the ultra paranoid, there is bug detecting equipment available for reasonable fees.

And people call ME paranoid??!! LOL

I'm hoping Levendi will read this thread and explain to you why your assumptions are wrong.  Your statement that "some slang, if used properly, can be used without fear of reprisal." is just not true.  Levendi is a very knowledgeable attorney and I'm sure he would disagree with your post and explain why.  Sedagive.

...nor am I a lawyer but I have to agree with Sedagive that your comment about properly used slang is just ridiculous.  You can't be so naive to believe that LE is not aware of the slang terms that, by the way, are tossed about openly on this and other boards.  What you say can and will be held against you no matter how much you try to slang it up.

You guys kill me, you can have someone every bit as good looking as the girl in the glamour shot...legally...safely...for about 60 bucks plus the cost of a drink and a room. " Waaaaa, but Markie I'm scared to go to TJ, THOSE GIRLS ARE DIRTY!! LOL.

Good, stay home and sweat bullets, more for me. BTW, I was in Cancun last summer, took one of the chica's from Chicago Club with me for 5 days.

I have read this thread thanks to Sedagive and I would like to respond in the hope of clearing up some issues based upon police reports that I have actually read in conjunction with the versions told to me by the arrested provider or client:
1.  Cops not only lie, but they break the law themselves on the theory of necessity in order to promote vigorous enforcement.  We all know that prostitution, as a general proposition is a victimless crime.  There are situations, however, where this kind of enforcement is a necessary evil.  Street prostitution can be very dangerous.  I have heard more than one story where a client accompanied a provider to a motel room only to be robbed and beaten by some of her friends laying in wait.  For some "hookers" this is the only way that they can support their habit.  In the normal street bust, the conversation starts out with "Are you dating?" and progresses to "Prove to me that you are not a cop"  Some of these girls think that by merely "groping" the officer or having the officer twist her titty offers some sort of sanctuary.  Dead wrong!! In fact, the experienced vice officer will testify that this is common practice.  
2. Along comes the Internet and the providers start to get smart and advertise their services in terms of "escorting" or "massage" One would think that once contact has been made over the phone and an appointment has been arranged, whatever happens between two consenting adults behind closed doors is somehow legalized based on expectations of privacy and First Amendment freedoms.  Enter LE and their sleazy tactics.  Especially our LE friends in Orange County who not only invade the homes of the providers but actually intimidate them into turning over clients through sting operations on the promise of a dismissal when the provider has turned over enough clients to LE's satisfaction.  I have read the numbers being as high as 20.  One provider turned over two people and LE asked for 5 more. Gee, what a surprise.  So long as the cow keeps giving milk, what's the harm.  Let's string her along because, in reality, LE is holding all the cards and can actually decide in the end whether or not the provider's case can be dismissed.  They also intimidate DA's folks, in case no one thought that could happen.
3.  Let's talk about the use of "slang".  One police report I read actually contained pages from TER's glossary.  The vice officer is an expert witness in some respects so he is able to testify as to what the terms DATY or GFE or BBBJ or whatever means.  The TER pages won't come into evidence because they are hearsay BUT the officer can nevertheless testify as to what he has found on the TER site and the fact that reviews of providers are the primary business of TER.  Let's face up to one reality here:  THESE BOARDS ARE CONSTANTLY MONITORED!!!! Please believe it and know that when postings of reviews or discussion boards are done without discretion or some thought, they are read by LE.  
4.  So what's the answer, you ask?  Why is this attorney rambling on like there is no tomorrow?  Well, as any typical attorney will tell you, (and there are plenty of sleazy ones  around because I have met my share) the answer is that there is no clear cut answer.  It is a chess game and we have to think five or six moves ahead.  What do I mean by that?  Well, if the hobbyist has done his homework, there is no need to ask a lot of questions.  A provider with 5 or 6 pages of reviews pretty much has everything stated that there is to state.  Why ask more?  The donation part is the key.  Always remember that LE has to have sex and money occur in the same conversation, because the misdemeanor MUST BE COMMITTED IN HIS PRESENCE!!!  Don't talk sex and money in the same conversation?  How much for my time is more appropriate than how much for FS (full service) and the like.  Remember, the provider is providing time and not sex.  You should already know the donation amount before you go.  A good provider is not going to negotiate.  If I were one, I wouldn't.  Most of the popular providers know that they are reviewed so there is no need to talk money AT ANY TIME!!!
5.  As for screening, well I have tried to inform providers and clients alike that LE will use false ID's.  The favorite gig on the work angle is self-employment.  One OC LE claims to be a marine photographer. Hah!! He's pulled that shit on at least two providers that I know of.  I do not encourage outcall situations for providers.  Some police departments will rent rooms in hotels and bust 5-10 girls before the hobby community knows what has hit them.  Incall situations run be LE are much more infrequent because that takes more money and vice budgets are somewhat limited.  Orange County is just another universe where most incall busts occur.  One tip for the hobbyist: LE will usually not fuck with Russian operations unless it is the FEDS because these operations are usually very secure and there are always goons around for the protection of the ladies.  
6.  What to do if caught?  Well, for Christ's sake, don't panic.  Keep quiet.  I know that the embarassment will overtake you BUT keep cool and say nothing.  The law says you have rights when you are arrested.  Know them and understand them.  You will usually not be kept in jail more than one night because the jails are very crowded.  Own recognizance releases are common especially for first offenders. Don't plead guilty on your first appearance.  At least have a consultation with an attorney.  If you can't afford one, one will be appointed for you.  Public defenders are not to be looked down upon.  These are usually young hungry lawyers who are very idealistic and don't put up with much bullshit from the DAs or LE.  They will steer you right.
I think I'll stop here and allow for questions.  I could write for another hour or so but it will all get lost in the bathwater.  Feel free to ask questions! There's no charge!! Why do I do this?  So that I can have the best of both worlds and fuck with LE and dishonest defense lawyers at the same time.  That's my hobby! Regards to all and stay safe, levendi

I was wondering if you can comment on the use of taps, bugs and cameras??? Is this a usual thing used in stings?? From your experience, how does local LE bust johns? Hotels? Street hookers? Are the terms French, russian, and Greek off limits?
  I have never heard the term"are you dating", but I have had a provider ask me to prove that I was not a cop. I decided to peek out the hotel room door because she made me so nervous. Sure enough, there was a guy outside with a Motorola with an ear piece. I think that he looked more shocked than I did. Since I had not done anything wrong yet, I put on my boots and hit the road. That is why personally, I don't try new providers in hotels. paranoid?? You bet!
  Thanks for all the info. Please answer the questions above. Thanks

So, based on all of this information, am I right to discern that I did nothing that would be prosecutable based on my description of the initial contact communication?  

In other words, by not saying anything about sex or money in any conversation, was I safe in assuming I could not have been convicted?

I hesitate to speak for levendi, but it sounds like you are still at risk, if LE lies.

We who frequent this board may still hold on to the antiquated view (derived probably from seeing too many episodes of the FBI, Dragnet, Adam-12 etc.) that LE will play fair and tell the truth. Our problem, of course, is when LE lies, backed up by the Court system. This makes them worse than the organized gangs that they have sworn to protect us from.

You can ever see their rationale for this. We have to lie to convict all the "perps" who flaunt their disrespect for the law on boards such as TER. It's "ends-justifies-the-means" thinking like this that causes episodes like Ramparts in LA.

Markie,

Don't know why you came out with your comment in this thread.  
Maybe you haven't read my reviews on Rosalba and Tania......I ride my bike across the border almost every day so I am no stranger to AB and CC.

And the chicas in the Zona are very pretty although you are also exaggerating a little bit as well.

There are not very many that are as pretty as Kristina's glamour shot makes her out to be.  My ex-novia is that gorgeous without any makeup on, but it is rare to find a chica of that caliber down there.  Of course, the same can be said for the providers up here as well.  The point is that glamour shots only set you up for disappointment when you meet the girl in person.

I am one of the first to speak up and say that TJ is not necessarily dirty, but the Chicago Club is not the bar/brothel that I recommend.   Drugs and poor service are rampant there.  Adelitas, on the other hand, is safe, clean, and doesn't tolerate drugs.   Needless to say I love TJ chicas as well.  I am just trying to heal a broken heart and having Kristina just a mile from my house was just too damn convenient not to take advantage of the situation.

LEVENDI SAID: (GREAT STUFF!)
6.  What to do if caught?  Well, for Christ's sake, don't panic.  Keep quiet.  I know that the embarassment will overtake you BUT keep cool and say nothing.  The law says you have rights when you are arrested.  Know them and understand them.

(AT THIS POINT INVOKE YOUR MIRANDA RIGHTS!
TO ANY LAW OFFICER: IF IT IS YOUR INTENTION TO QUESTION, DETAIN OR ARREST ME, PLEASE ALLOW ME TO CALL AN ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY!
(an 800 NUMBER, answered 24/7)
HAND THE STATEMENT TO THEM IN WRITING, IN THIS CASE A LITTLE CARD THAT IS ALREADY IMPRINTED WITH IT.
HOW CAN YOU CALL SOMEONE AT MIDNIGHT OR 2AM? CONTACT ME AND I'LL ENLIGHTEN YOU.)

At least have a consultation with an attorney.  If you can't afford one, one will be appointed for you.  Public defenders are not to be looked down upon.

(I'M NOT SURE I WANT THE SAME PEOPLE WHO ARE PROSECUTING ME, TO DEFEND ME. DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE A FLAW IN THIS SCENARIO?
ANYONE EVER HEARD OF QUALITY ATTORNEYS FOR PENNIES A DAY?
REMEMBER YOU HEARD IT HEAR FIRST.)

Iggy_d
[email protected]

Sorry people, but I just don't agree. You act as though all cops lie and criminals are never guilty. Yes, our hobby seems so trivial compared to the murders, rapes and other crimes, but it's still illegal. None of us are saints. I agree that some cops lie to get the conviction, but a majority are honest. I know I'm going to catch Hell for this, but I wanted to get it in.
  It's funny how everyone complains about the cop when they get busted, but we call for them when we get burglarized, or our car is vandalized or stolen. Just as long as they are only around when we want them. Right?

I was commenting in general to all of the above posts regarding all the angst over LE when TJ is right there. Nothing personal.

I know Tania well, I'm down there twice a week every week. I have a novia as well. Been going with her a year and a half.

Hi Markie! Appreciated your posts.  I have no angst over TJ in terms of legality and comfort.  What I have angst over is the attitude of many of the providers in Adelitas or CC.  Attitude is a big thing with some of us older guys.  It's harder for a guy like me to perform if I buy 30 minutes worth of time and the gal in TJ tells me "Honey you have to hurry up and cum" after 10 minutes.  It's hard for me to look at a provider as a sperm depository.  That's why God gave me two hands and the ability to buy porn.  Perhaps if I were near TJ every day I could develop a great stable of ladies with USD by renting a place in TJ and calling my own shots.  Alas, that is not the situation in which I find myself.  That's why I pay bigger dollars and look for the GFE or whatever other needs I have closer to home.  The best source in which to do my homework is TER.  TJ is great in some aspects but not if you want a lot of time to burn with one lady.  Regards, levendi

Ok gumby, I will do my best to provide you with answers.  Local LE will usually bust street hookers by isolating the area of town where they are working.  They then use one LE to cruise the area and look for those girls that are working.  This is done by eye contact with the street hooker and pulling car over to the curb.  The conversation gets to the point where the hooker gets into the car.  Remember, in order to bust for 647b of the Cal Penal Code (prostitution) an overt act is necessary.  An overt act is an act in furtherance of the completion of the crime.  Getting in the car by itself is not enough BUT getting in car and riding with the LE (prospective client) coupled with talk of sex for money is enough.  Accepting dollars from LE driver is enough.  Taking a condom out of purse is enough.  Groping a cop coupled with talk of dollars is enough. Once this has been done the LE driver pulls over and gives a prearranged signal (ie taillight or headlight signal) and other LE surround car and street hooker is busted. The use of taps and wires is less frequent on the street.  In fact it is never used with street hookers to my knowledge.  Busting johns on the street is a different scenario.  Usually good looking female LE is used and actually approaches clients who are cruising street with cars.  They have conversation and female LE persuades client to park and accompany her to hotel or motel room.  Once door opens three male LEs are waiting inside to bust client.  Note that no money changes hands and the conversation can be falsified once client stupidly stops the car.  The overt act is complete upon client entering pre-rented hotel or motel room.  In internet scenarios, videos and audio tapes are used in cases involving outcall providers.  LE will usually rent two rooms (one next to the other). Prospective client will be in one room with 2-3 other LE next door.  Video cam is going along with audio tape.  Usually donation is made and provider is caught on camera butt naked. Can be very embarassing to provider.  That's why I discourage outcall situations for providers unless it is a referral type situation.  Hope this answers your questions. Regards, levendi-

Thanks for the compliment iggy.  One correction if I may:  Public Defenders are not the ones prosecuting you.  District Attorneys prosecute and Public Defenders defend.  The reason I don't look down upon Public Defenders is that someday these same Public Defenders become very seasoned and wily private defense attorneys charging $300 plus per hour.  Public Defenders are only to be used if you can't afford an attorney and they make the decision whether or not to take you as a client.  Regards, levendi

No disrespect to you shagalistic but vice cops lie all the time.  They have to in order to justify their existence.  Vice is usually the first assignment of a patrol officer when he/she decides to become a detective.  It is shitty work but someone has to do it.  Your examples of burglary or vandalism are different from a provider who is trying to put some food on the table for her child and is not really stealing from anyone.  Prostitution is still illegal BUT too much temptation to build stats by lying is what all increased requests on police budgets are based.  If you look at some of the citations that are issued by LE against the homeless (i.e. illegal camping, sleeping in the park, theft of recyclables, illegal possession of shopping carts), I simply ask what kind of crime prevention is that?  If you are going to fight crime, then fight it honestly! Don't invade the home of a provider who wants to provide a service behind closed doors out of public view with a consenting adult.  That solves nothing.  Prostitution has been illegal for hundreds of years but, outside of moral considerations, what's really illegal about it.  How about talking radar or photgraphing intersections for redlight tickets, etc.?  When do we stop? Regards, levendi

-- Modified on 2/23/2002 12:00:11 AM

I am not saying that all of the cops lie, but if one lies, then the damage has been done.  That cop has violated his/her oath.  What really gets me is that most cops lie because the arrested citizen decides to invoke his/her rights or otherwise question the conduct of the police officer.  If that action on the part of the arrested party provokes the lie, then the damage has been done and it doesn't matter how many convictions have been obtained legally.  The system has failed.  Regards, levendi

The LE setup that levendi describes for outcall providers may be seen in a re-run of a Las Vegas 'Cops' episode. The sting was run with a cop posing as an Arab sheik, who didn't quite understand American money. You could almost see the cops getting off, humiliating beautiful women. I guess vice is the last refuge for legal sexual harassment.

Thanks again levendi, for all of your valuable advice and help.

-- Modified on 2/23/2002 7:49:39 AM

Attitude of the providers is a primary reason that I went to TJ over 150 times last year alone. Only once did anyone tell me to finish quickly. Generally if your there on a Fri or Sat. night you can expect a knock after 20 minutes, thats about it.

Many times last year, I would establish a repoire {sp?} with a dancer and then invite her out of the bar for the afternoon. Lunch, movies, whatever, then hotel for a couple of hours, many times all day, 200.00 was the most I ever paid.

Going during the day you will find many beautiful women willing to spend an inordinate amount of time with you, Mexicans are a warm and wonderful people. So much so that I'm fairly certain were I not married and looking for a wife I would be inclined to find one in Latin America.

But I hear that the rates are pretty high. Is that true???