This topic had been around for a while. One of the best discussions can be found here:
Ok my buddy and I had a long debate over this while playing 18 holes of golf this weekend. We have both been in the hobby for some time but disagree on this issue. I think it should be legal.
Should prostitution be legal and regulated? Should it become a legit profession in the eyes of the law and society? We already have legal brothels in Nevada! Most of the world has made it legal on their books or basically have decided to ignore it legally and just regulate it medically through monthly HIV/STD testing.
The providers and clients are going to do it anyways, theres really no way to stop it so.....?
So why not make it legal, theres the obvious medical issue of the women being checked, and the use of condoms being mandatory, this would stop a lot of the buisness going south o' the border and taking unecessary risks. Plus you know you would be getting a legit provider, no cash and dash or other games. No more pimps or strong arm tactics on the women and something the ladies might not like but it can be taxed!
Just food for thought, what do you all think?
i don't think "streetwalking" should be legal, because it's out in public. But escorting as we know it should be. The lady is providing a service, just like and Accountant or a Plumber provide a service.
I don't agree, however, that legalizing it would take away the cash and dash or other rip-off artists. Those will always be around. Luckily it's the net that has helped us avoid them.
If it's controlled like in Nevada, than yes. The downside of that is what the "houses" charge from what I hear.
Of course, try opening up a brothel if it was legal. A lot of NIMBY.
there is the issue of rip-offs, B&S operations and of course the tax incentive... All in addition to the health care issues...
With respect to which model of legalization or decriminalization? South of the border? no no.... NORTH of the Border... CANADA! my first encounters after my divorce were in Canada... they were not the best, but they were good enough.... with two very sexy ladies!
What do they do? they make ALL the ladies who are legit "Indies" - and what a way to go that is! In favor of legalization!?? you bet!
History has taught that where there is a demand for any goods or services, that demand will be met regardless of governmental efforts to stamp it out. Legalization with regulation will make activities safer for all concerned. However, if you look at the possible economic consequences, I wonder if we would really want that result.
Legalization would eliminate the risk premium that is imbedded in the pricing models. Even though the activities are often not unlawful, a premium to compensate for law enforcement harassment, health risks, etc. are implicitly built into pricing models. That risk premium mostly likely exceeds the actual cost posed by those risk resulting in excess profits. Legalization also would likely result in increased taxes for many. Finally, legalization also would likely result in more commodity pricing behavior. We already see some commodity pricing behavior through the typical $$$ per hour rate. All in, net incomes of the providers will likely decrease and may decrease substantially.
Some of you may say, how can that be? Look at the prices in the Nevada brothels. I would submit that Nevada is not representative of true legalization. Because the licensed brothels are limited to certain geographic areas and limited in number, there is a premium built into their prices resulting from the limited supply and a negative risk premium that results from customers who are willing to pay extra to avoid law enforcement risk. The fact that Nevada is not a true legalization system is evidenced by the level of illicit and borderline activity in Las Vegas.
Further, I doubt that legalization would result in lower consumer prices. The risk premiums would likely be replaced by regulatory premiums (the costs necessary to meet inevitable regulatory requirements) and taxes. So, at least over the short run, you would pay at least as much or more in a legalized system. Moreover, as commoditization increases, you can expect service levels to decrease. To make up for net lower rates (net of taxes and regulatory costs), providers will have to increase volume. The increased volume would result in shorter appointments and may make GFE a thing of the past. None of this is good for the discriminating consumer.
It is possible, however, for the services to remain differentiated in the manner they currently are. As a result, you may continue to see high end providers in the market. But, becasue of the regulatory premium and taxes, the ultimate cost to the consumer may be subtantially higher than it is currently at that end of the market.
So, at the end of the day, the old adage of "becareful what you ask for" remains relevant.
I would love to hear the opinions of some some providers. Aside from the social, medical and legal issues that MyTDrive aptly details how would that affect the way we hobby today? The supply and demand curve will probably not change. Neither will our marginal propensity to consume or, for for our ladies, supply. I'd love to hear from them because, after all, they control the supply.
To me it's pretty cut and dry. Much like the debate of church and state. Also simialr to some of the issues of personal use Marijuana.
You have a moral issue here, as well as, financial.
No womean wants the local or state government giving her regualtions on her body or what she can do with it. It's a line they haven't and will never cross.
This may increase the ablility to tax, but at what cost.
Once again "Providers" would be lumped to one category, much like any other occupation.
I seriously doubt 'they' will form a commitee to sit down and look and the history, levels, and stages of the profession.
Therefore, like dancers, same rules (taxes, possibly rates, med. hx) will apply for all.
That is only going to hurt both sides in the long run. (You definitely won't see something like CL around) Not to mention, I'm sure there will still be "under ground" activity to bipass regualtions. Shold someone who has very basic needs pay the same as someone who wants greek, fantasy, fetish play, or threesomes?
This creates another issue in itself.
Ladies will not take well to being told or given a range on what they should charge, or what the government will take. I don't see the government playing pimp. Being taxed on top of the brothel cut leaves little for the provider. I have known girls at the Nevada brothels. Yes, it is a safe environment. No, it's not like you see on TV. Very often it is a quanity buisness to make up for all the pay outs.
It's definitely the first time I ever heard a girl say she had to ice her privates from too much activity.
With that hobbying will suffer. Hobbyist themselves may get priced out of the hobby. Many ladies may no longer see the appeal or profit, of being in the biz. The fact there is still the stigma of being labled an adult entertainer, whether it is legal or not is still a factor.
I can easliy see the quanity and quality of women changing. I doubt there would be indpendent contractors, as many neigborhoods will not want it going on next door. My guess is you would see brothel like establishments.
I know many people that don't feel comfortable walking into a shrinks office.
How many would have no problem walking into a brothel?
How many would really feel comfortable with people knowing they partake of this 'service'?
If it's legal, is it okay for your wife to know?
What if you had to register as a regular client (hobbyist)and have health checks as well?
Another intersting scenerio: With it legal, women will be more at ease to report any abuse or man handling. Let's say you pop in 10 minutes, then she says 'no' to a second pop. You are either just out of luck, or you may insist. Could she cry date rape? Because she said no. In the eyes of the law no is no. One word against another.
However, many brothels have peep holes for just such safety reasons. Do you want someone peaking in on you?
From my point of view, some may see it as a 'service' like any other. But for most this is still a very personal and intimate issue that rules and regulations can hardly be placed upon. It has been the world's oldest profession for centuries for a reason.
I'm sure this enough food for thought...
OX,
J.L.
-- Modified on 4/9/2007 2:14:53 PM
On the surface, I would say, "Make it legal", even though I know it wouldn't happen. You make for some very compelling arguments of why it not only wouldn't happen, but in many ways, why it SHOULDN'T happen.
There are some very good comments on this thread, and for those who don't know I'm a ts provider.
Legalizing prostitution will stop much of the marginalization and victimization of women in the sex industry.
I think we all pretty much agree that the present situation of criminalizing sex between consenting adults in private is not working. Legalizing it will stop criminalizing otherwise law abiding people.
Simply getting arrested twice turns a girl into a felon in CA. Which means she can't usually get a decent job outside the sex trade. At the least it costs her thousands of dollars in attorney fees, lost income, etc. The police often sieze everything she owns, money, computers, phones, cars, causing serious hardship - all for a non-crime. It destroys her trust of authority and forces her to work all the more to recover, and becomes a viscious cycle with no way out.
For men, it costs them a car impound, perhaps their family and job - prosecution of such non-crimes can destroy the very families the laws were designed to save.
There is NOT ONE program in place I am aware of, other than a couple of pitiful non-profit attempts toward street girls. The government will jail women, ruin their lives, but will not provide assistance and training to get girls into quality jobs that pay the MEDIAN wages of the region. Which for San Diego is around $60,000 a year. There is no incentive to leave the business and exchange a living income in the sex industry for a starvation diet. Women have the right to a standard of living equal to any other middle class person. The right to earn enough to buy a house, not rent a dump in the ghetto, to drive a late model car, to take a vacation once a year, and to use their bodies as they see fit.
Hundreds of gang murders a year occur in every metro area of the country, robbery and assualt is commonplace in most cities. Yet large sums are devoted to keeping adults from engaging in consensual sex in private.
Yet the most popular programs on TV are the sex segments of "Cops," and "Catch a Predator" - why? Because sex sells - and what sells better than a nice juicy prostitution bust with live video.
Street girls, pimps and drug addicts are elements that I am not really qualified to speak on. But are the people who appear to cause the majority of the problems associated with the industry. I'm not sure legalizing the business would stop it. It hasn't in Las Vegas.
I don't agree with moving it into brothels. In that case you simply exchange pimps for the brothel owners. Read about the old days in the Chicken Ranch, etc. It was virtualy slavery. In most any country that allows brothels the subjugation and victimization of women is considerable.
There needs to be a happy median where everyone can reach concsensus. Let the quality professional girls work, remove the drug addicts and pimps, provide quality medical testing. Stop the needless prosecution of people who are not harming anyone, divert the money into other sorely needed areas like street crime.
And let what goes on in other people's bedrooms be their own private business, so long as they aren't being hurt or bothering anyone.
Just my opinion,
TS Jamie
-- Modified on 4/9/2007 7:17:33 PM
That was very well put. Thank you for your thoughtful insight.
I think you nailed it! I have to agree with you and I have to add that if it were legal a provider can still be an independent it doesn't have to all be about brothels.
This topic had been around for a while. One of the best discussions can be found here: