I have 2 troubling questions I've been wanting to ask. Please answer them honestly. I am seeking truthful and honest response from you all.
* For Married Hobbysts: Do you guys feel guilty everytime you see a provider?
* For Providers: How do you feel about seeing married clients who obviously cheated on their wifes? (ie. taking baby's milk money or kids' college funds money).
The reason why I want to know is that I myself always feel guilty everytime I see a provider. The thoughts that always run through my mind are all the lies I've made up to my wife, married vows I've broken, all the $$$$$$ I've spent that should've gone to my kids' college funds and our retirement, etc.
I have come to this conclusion: this "hobby" thing is NOT all it seems to be... (last week, my wife found out and planned to file for a divorce and threatened my ATF provider physically and financially) aka, all hell breaks loose.
I believe all the lies, all the heartaches, all the legal problems  and all the financial inproductivity (ie. waste) that surround this "hobby" will eventually take its toll on us. It did on me. Honest and sincere answers/suggestions are requested from you all! Thanks! ~~~~TheTruthShallSetYouFREE

Well two things come to mind:
1. You must have the disposable income to play with. If this hobby cuts into your house payment, food expense or even college savings then either reduce # of times or find another hobby.
2. Learn to separate sex from love. I once knew a young lady who wanted only sex -not a provider, well I let my feelings get in the way and it ruined an otherwise simple relationship and almost cost me everything.

I think you have lied once more.  I can't believe your wife is filing for divorce and threatening your ATF and you big concern is what other hobbiests and providers are thinking.  I can see why your wife didn't believe you.......I don't either.

do you truely believe that all those $$$$$$ would have gone to the college fun.. or would you have just had another 'hobby'.. racing, boating, skiing, gambling.. etc... how do i feel about it...well really it isnt any of my business how a grown man decided to spend his money... but if its gonna go somewhere.. why not here...

should he feel guilty?  lets see what my s/o spends on me each monht on average...

clothes/shoes - 100
food - 500
gas - 300
Phone/DSL - 150
Entertainment - 250
Ebay - 300
Misc handouts - 400

That's 2000 a month.. not to mention things like a new washer or a new vaccuum or a new showerhead... a roof over my head.. heat.. a/c.. water etc...

so he spends 2000 on me... and 1500 on himself... i dont see any reason he should feel guilty about the money.. that's for sure...

P.S. to my s/o .. that isnt the go ahead... cause your provider is right here at home... xoxo

I am just curious how you got caught so that some may learn from your errors.

I think that if you truly felt as bad as you say, you would have quit prior to being caught.

So let us know what led to the wife catching on, be it bank statements, credit cards, ohone records, or bad timing..  We all try to be careful but sometime you learn from others mistakes.

sj1

In the early days, meeting new people was an incredible thing.  Afer you do it for a while, you're more critical and selective, and try to find folks you'd "fit" with, particularly mental fit.

Do I feel guilty?  Not married, but do have a long time SO.  Everyone figures a way to justify it in their mind.  In mine:  I've learned a lot about myself and others, and that's something I like most about life.

Make a decision.  Either don't do it, or do it.  Make the choice, be responsible and accountable for your actions, and be a man about the results.  If you feel guilty about it, then you shouldn't be doing it.  Quit whinin' about your own actions.

Actually, I don' t feel guilty at all.  I guess I've convinced myself that there is no harm in it because I have no emotional attachments to the women.  And no ones calling the house late at night.

If you don' t mind my asking how did your wife find out about your adventures?

she found "irregularity" on my schedule, my bank/cc accounts, my coming home with different smell, my phone book, etc, then she hired a PI to follow me (just like in the TV show "cheaters"). Anyway, I knew it coming and now I am paying the price I guess. My wife and her lawyer are seeking to file a lawsuit against my ATF provider for financial damage.

You wrote
"I think you have lied once more.  I can't believe your wife is filing for divorce and threatening your ATF and you big concern is what other hobbiests and providers are thinking.  I can see why your wife didn't believe you.......I don't either"

Analyze all you want. You dont know what you are talking about.

I am sorry to say but you sound like a selfish person. At least I admitted my wrongdoing and felt guilty about it and yeah all those $$$$$$ would've gone to my kids' college funds. I guess you can't see pass yourself and dont see that providers who see cheating husbands play a part in draining their financial resources that would otherwise go to their wifes and kids.

easier said than done! and I am not whining. I am just wondering if there are guys out there that feel the same way I do.

I think it has to do somewhat with age. I'm an older hobbyist and no I don't feel guilty. The Mrs. and I have a great relationship and I keep what is "mine" personal. I use disposable cash, no credit cards, make my visits in the daytime and never try to make up a reason why I am "going out." If it's not a good time, then don't go. If the provider is late, make a decision about leaving so as not to raise suspicions. Finally, I have found a few providers I visit on a regular basis. I can count on them to be on time, no perfume, no smoking (at least at the meet) and everyone is happy. Be smart, tomorrow is another day.

A lawsuit????  You're kidding, right?  Did SHE solicit YOU?  And you probably won't be man enough to say it was YOUR responsibility, YOUR choice, and to leave the provider out of it.
I can't believe what I'm hearing.  I have an idea: let's legislate it, and make the provider have you sign a disclaimer - no make her wear labels - saying "use of this product may be hazardous to your marriage".  I mean after all, it's HER fault for being available.  You're as pathetic as I assumed.

I always liked "Rockford's" policy that he never took any private investigation cases that involved domestic disputes.

Although the wife may be viewed as the aggrieved party here, she's acting pretty vengeful by going after a provider for financial recovery. When you see creative legal theories like this that belong more on Jerry Springer than in a courtroom, the only real winner will be her attorney who racks up his hourly fee. It can serve no real financial purpose for the wife, except to get "even".

On a more philosophical note, when you say you're feeling guilty you're fighting the basic biological urges that have evolved over millions, nay billions, of years with our social conventions that have barely been around for ~500 years. Somehow I get the feeling that the biological urges will always win, and that we mostly use our brain to rationalize why it's still OK to wander. Or to be more technical, we poor men are all pretty much led around by our dick, else we wouldn't be participating in this forum.

This hobby is so much easier for us single guys.  We do not have to worry about the wife and in some cases the SO finding out.  By not having to lie and cover our tracks it removes one layer of problems that make us question if what we are doing is right.

As mentioned in other posts, wives and girlfriends seem to have a special sense in detecting when you are out with someone else.  As mentioned smoke, perfume, odd schedule changes, unaccounted for bank transactions or limited funds.

I have always joked if you are married and going to have a mistress make sure she wears the same perfume, lip stick shades, has the same hair color and length and if you are going to be seen in public that she looks like your wife.  I know certain perfumes will react differently on diffrent people, but us guys can't tell the difference only the woman that wears it.

I do not think guilt is only limited to those that are married.  At some point I think everyone questions this hobby and weighs the positive and negative effects it may have on your life.  It can be quite addicting and cause you to do things that are not ultimately in your best interest, at both short and long term.

I second the idea that you should limit the number of sessions to what can easily be paid for by disposable cash.  The money you would have spent on other stupid,useless things that once paid for you question what the hell were you thinking. I'm sure we all have a garage, closet or storage unit full of the stuff or certain other hobbies we support.

The problem is most of us go a little deeper into the pocket to support this hobby.  How many of is have gone to the ATM and used a credit card to get the cash for a session.  The feeling is we will just pay for it with the next pay check when the bill comes due.  This is a very dangerous line to cross.  Once justified and done it is easily repeated until you are no longer paying off the bill each month and then use a second or third card.

The immediate effect on our life of a session is hopefully euphoria.  Over the long haul it may cause relationship issues, cause us to work more years, and/or cause you to have a less secure retirement.  I know some are able to control the use of this hobby better or just make way more money than the average person could ever use.  To those I say have as much fun as you want.  To the others I say have as much fun as you can honestly afford.

I am single, no SO and yes I can occasionally feel guilty.  I can only imagine what is going through the mind of you married guys.  The fact that you can get caught might make it even more enjoyable for some and add more guilt to others. If you are questioning your actions and whether it is affecting your life, it might be time to get out.  I have tried many times to quit, but always seem to come back. Each time it has been with more restraint.  Thankfully nature has a way of diminishing our urges so it makes it a little easier to control as we get older.  Then man had to come up with Viagra.

There is a reason why evolution has made sex so hard to walk away from and it was not originally to make women rich, but today it seems to be that way.  When computed a provider is a much cheaper alternative compared to supporting most wives or girlfriends and especially considered against most divorce settlements.  I guess us single guys should be whistling both coming and going from a session and stop questioning our actions.

There's a book by Stanley called "The Millionaire Next Door", which argues that almost anyone in the U.S. can become a millionaire by living very frugally. Yet the sad fact is that there are only ~7 million "millionaires" out of a total of 6.36 billion on the planet Earth. Does this mean that you should feel guilty that you haven't saved a million dollars for your kids' college funds? That means you should not only feel guilty about seeing an escort, but also going every other day to Starbucks or when you buy an ice cream cone. What about buying a car with an air conditioner? Isn't that something of a self-indulgence too?

To me this guilt thing of yours is also something of a self-indulgence, not unlike Catholics wearing a hair-shirt. If it makes you feel better to think you're guilty, then by all means indulge. But if it interferes with your job or your health, then you may want to seek psychiatric help. They're making real advances in treating depression these days.



-- Modified on 8/23/2003 9:02:36 AM

It is the mark of someone struggling with finding their own personal maturity to feel remorse after having committed an act numerous times.  I say this from having done it myself, and from struggling to find my own personal maturity.

Even more importantly, why should a provider feel any guilt whatsoever about providing her services?  Why would she have any obligation to be responsible for our making correct decisions?
That is like a 17 year old who works at a fast food joint having to feel guilty for selling a hamburger to someone who is overweight.  

The provider doesn't solicit your business...you went to her.  She is taking responsibility for her life by making herself "available" (in ways that many women aren't strong enough to stomach) to people who want to spend time with her so she can support herself and the lifestyle she chooses.  There is a big difference between a woman who works with a guy who is married but weak and who intentionally seduces him and then tells his wife, and a provider who is making herself available to those who should be able to take responsibility for their actions.

I sincerely sympathize with the destruction of your life, as, regardless of cause, it is a major shock.  However, having gone through a similar (but much less expensive) scenario myself, I can say that if we really value something, we won't risk losing it repeatedly. Some people may be better at lying than others, and may rationalize that cheating is okay as long as no one finds out.  If one can do this and be at peace with themselves and the potential consequences, then more power to them.  I am not a good liar, though, so I have to live with honesty and take the consequences, which is why I haven't remarried after divorcing 15 years ago.

As for your wife, it is laughable that she thinks she will be able to get money from the provider you were seeing.  I hope that you two can someday sit down and reconcile what happened to create this split for the betterment of both of you.

Best of luck...and learning from your actions is the best way to eventually forgive yourself.

Intelligent post! I couldn't agree more with what you wrote.

The wife has a choice, too.  She can choose to inflate the importance of what she discovered, interpret the event catastrophically, summon all her anger and vengeance, making herself and others miserable, but she needn't do so.  My wife caught me, but after a 5-minute serious discussion, all was fine, happy, back to normal.  She simply chose to remain rational.  So I hope the fellow in the divorce predicament doesn't blame himself for the whole mess.  In fact, he doesn't have to choose to view it as a mess, but can choose to interpret is as a mere fact, or as an opportunity, or as a new beginning....  Best wishes.

The lawsuit against the ATF is a waste of time and effort.....except it may make your wife feel better by confronting her face to face.  Of course, they would first need the name and address, and then be able to serve them.......

ut to answer your original question- no I don't feel guilty. My marriage has no future  (and really not a great past) and a divorce is iminent anyway.   I have the same obligations as you but I have felt at ease since my wife and I came to the realization that we must eventually part.  Good luck.

I was told recently, that an ex can sue and win against a woman who her husband cheats with.

Maybe your spoiled kids can pay for there own college, most people work and put themselves through college. I did!

Go ahead and get the divorce you may find yourself happier in the long run. Have some balls!!

I'm sorry to hear about your getting busted by your wife but I think through your misfortune we can all learn something here.  

First off, I never write anything down or if I do its discarded immediately afterward. #2 I always take a shower after a session so as to keep from smelling like some strange woman.  

Now, as far as a schedule is concerned I have an office in my home so I am always able to make some excuse to get out to get food or whatever as long as somewhere along the way I remember to pick up the things I said I was going out for.  

-- Modified on 8/23/2003 2:25:03 PM

You wrote
"The lawsuit against the ATF is a waste of time and effort.....except it may make your wife feel better by confronting her face to face.  Of course, they would first need the name and address, and then be able to serve them......."

my wife and her lawyer have all the info about her. The PI guy gave it to them. I dont know how he got it. (And the info is accurate). All I know is my wife only know her first name and phone number. I suspected that the PI guy retrieved her info from some public record (maybe from her license plate?, her address? her phone number? I dont know). My wife is taking a revenge on her for ruining our marriage. She's the type that always want to get even. I dont know how its going to play out but her lawyer said that they would resort to exposing her ilegal activities (her online ads) and threaten a jail time so she would settle for some amount of money.

you know that its not like a fast food kid feeling guitly about selling hamburgers to an overweight person. If that's the case, I would have to agree that a provider has nothing to do with your actions. (eventhough you now hear rumors of lawsuits against fast food chains). But the fact of the matter is it is about sex. It's highly addictive (just like cigarettes) and look of what happened to those cigarettes companies. It takes two to tangle.
You wrote
"The provider doesn't solicit your business...you went to her"
I'd say you are right on the second part. But the first part, I disagree with you. They all do advertise. They all try to lure you in. Look at their websites, their ads, their pics. I am not saying they are at fault.  I am saying they play a part (however small) in creating this entire industry and in draining guys' financial resources that would otherwise go to more productive things (ie. not a waste)

it's too late now to seek psychiatric help. well let's see. Starbucks coffee $3, Ice cream cone $2, Car with A/C.... ok it's expensive but you buy it only once and it's a necessity and a good investment. Seeing escorts.... $300/visit, $1200-1500/month. It is expensive and looking back, it is a waste of $$$. If you ask any economists, they would say it is very unproductive and a waste of money.

You wrote,
"A lawsuit????  You're kidding, right?  Did SHE solicit YOU?  And you probably won't be man enough to say it was YOUR responsibility, YOUR choice, and to leave the provider out of it. I can't believe what I'm hearing.  I have an idea: let's legislate it, and make the provider have you sign a disclaimer -no make her wear labels - saying "use of this product may be hazardous to your marriage".  I mean after all, it's HER fault for being available.  You're as pathetic as I assumed"

Obviously you havent got a clue at all. I tried to leave the provider out of it. It's out of my control! Did you really think I want her involved, you d**b f***? Maybe I should introduce you to my wife and have her list you on defendants list.

you wrote
"My wife caught me, but after a 5-minute serious discussion, all was fine, happy, back to normal."..."In fact, he doesn't have to choose to view it as a mess"

I wish my wife were like yours. Everything was seriously fine, happy, and back to normal after you talked to her??? You're just kidding right??? Hard to believe! And I see things as they are... a mess is a mess. ~~~~~TruthShallSetYouFree

you wrote
"Maybe your spoiled kids can pay for there own college, most people work and put themselves through college. I did! Go ahead and get the divorce you may find yourself happier in the long run. Have some balls!!"

I do have balls thank you. Yes I wanted my kids to go to college fulltime, finish it in 4 years and get a good job. Thats why I am feeling so much guilt. No I didnt want a divorce (for the sake of my kids) but it's now out of my hand! I have noticed that most providers I've met didnt really care about my well being. It was all about $$$ and their lifestyles!

About half of my clients are married, and I don't feel guilty when I entertain ANY of my clients, single or married. A client comes to me with no strings attached. I neither care nor want to know if a client is spending his child's college fund on me. Just as I don't burden my clients with all of life's little difficulties, I will not allow them to burden me with their insecurities or feelings of guilt. I am a an escort who provides sexual release. I am NOT a therapist, and refuse to entertain clients who want me to act as their therapist. It's very unfair to me. For example, I saw a client a few weeks ago who went on and on about his sick wife. She has a terminally illness. I'm so sorry for him, but he should go see someone qualified to help him with his feelings. I will *not* entertain him again, because I don't have the emotional energy to provide sex AND psychotherapy. It's not in the job description. Like him, I suggest you seek therapy. It's not for everyone, but it may help you resolve these feelings.

You'll notice that everyone who has an outlook he doesn't like has received an argument in response to their post.  He wants to be heard to make him feel better about himself - but certainly doesn't want to listen to the views and input he solicits.  VICTIM.

You're right, I have no clue at all.  It's not your fault.  It's out of your control.  That wicked wife of yours is on a witch hunt.  It's her fault.  That provider SHOULD be dragged into something she didn't start.  It's her fault too.  I mean, you're probably a really great guy, and you just misunderstand your penis.  It's your penis' fault.  It's evolution and male natural biological tendencies.  It's science's fault.  Feel better?

I appreciate your honesty. At least you are honest about not being care about your clients' financial well being. Just like casinos dont care where gamblers get their money as long as they lose it there. They feed off gamblers misery and misfortune. The entire escort industry operates in similar fashion... it's self absorbing and destructive by breaking families and clients' banks. Sorry for being so cynical. But I believe that's the case.

I dont know how you came up with that analysis. I read and listened to all the replies. I disagreed with some posts..... agreed with some others. You still dont know what you're talking about.

If it doesn't matter five years from now, It really doesn't matter. Don't sweat the small stuff. I wish you the best of luck!