I guess we can't be specific but I'd be very wary.

http://www.geocities.com/tinabgoodsd/tina.html

Maybe we should feel honored that SD L.E. takes such an interest in us.

Sort of reminds me of the latest FBI/grand jury investigation of the City Council that may have taken campaign contributions from strip-club owners. Gee, I don't remember such activity when Valerie Stallings of the City Council took a bribe from John Moore on the new Padre Stadium. Although Stallings was convicted of a misdemeanor for this bribe, no charges were ever leveled at Moore.

So fess up S.D. LE, DA's, feds etc., are you guys just hung up on sex? Maybe you should be getting therapy instead of harassing us?

-- Modified on 6/2/2003 9:10:41 AM

I'd be interested, 2sense, into know who YOU really are.  I noticed your name came up on a past string with Rugburn trashing both TinaBgood and Starlah as LE.  I noticed in that post, Tina responded back to the accusation.  Where do you get-off making outrageous posts with nothing to back it up by??  It leads one to wonder just what are the true motivations here.  Making false accusations about providers is just hurting everyone.  Tina is the real deal.

You stated "I noticed your name came up on a past string with Rugburn trashing both TinaBgood", sorry to say that TinaBGood is a new listing, unless she had a prior alias.

If so, please enlighten all of us who TinaBGood USED to be. And YOUR legitimacy is alos in question, NAGLAF with the one review.

I've seen 2sense's posting and review history for quite a while, and I know that he might sometimes be misguided, but his intentions are good.

Thanks JBIRDCA - these days that's as close to a vote of confidence as I get.

As to seeing who's an LE "provider" and who's not these days, there are fortunately clues nested inside all of these ads that LE puts out. And no, I'm not going to hand out a list of these clues on an open forum. Why make LE's job any easier than it already is?

The best approach for a hobbyist these days is simply to be very, very cautious with any new providers advertising on the web. If you buy a VIP membership to TER, you will see a large number of well-reviewed, bonafide providers in San Diego, with no chance of LE involvement. Think of a substantial provider "curriculum vitae" on TER as an insurance policy.

If a new provider is in fact genuine, then there will gradually be a buildup of reviews indicating as much. There will always be some hearty, "pioneering" TER hobbyists who are willing to take a chance on a new provider. There is an old saying, though, about telling who the pioneers are -- they're the ones with arrows in their backs.

And as to who I am -- just someone who never wants to see any legitimate participant (hobbyist or provider) on this board be harmed by LE.

-- Modified on 6/2/2003 1:41:18 PM

that could damage some1's reputation or business is on the accuser, who may owe it to his fellow men to prove it on this board or email.
let us all go along and get along. let le do their thing, thats what they r paid 4. and those who dance, must pay the fiddler!

I always find it odd when new girls who seem too good to be true are only reviewed by one unknown.  I would think that a newbie to the board would first try some of the more reviewed girls and then follow up with a post.  After all, isn't that what the site is about?  Why pay to join, or even post to get days in the bank, and then start out with new unreviewed girls?  Sure, we go to new girls.  That's how the list grows.  But to see an unreviewed girl right out of the shoot seems a bit risky behavior for someone who I would think is testing the waters.  

I'm always seeing newbies who post four or five new posts within their first month to unknown girls.  Its possible that they are girls that were seen before discovering TER and are building up days by submitting (which if they saw within a 3 month period is legit).

If I see a new girl, unreviewed, posted by someone like bkman or EasyE, I am all over it.  I know its legit.  No doubt about it.  EasyE has brought us some real beauties that were backed up by later reviews, showing that he has a talent for finding these ladies.

Again, I don't know this girl or if she is legit or not.  I'm not saying that anyone who posts a new girl is suspicious.  I'm just saying that the review posted above, about a new girl, coming from an unknown...

A far better thing to be safe, rather than wearing handcuffs, then sorry, I suppose.  Too bad, I hope if Tina is legit she isn't hurt by all this banter!

Well, I still recall when Laura J started out and she was accused of being bacon. She really had to stick to her guns to prove that she was legitimate. I guess that any new girl is automatically considered LE.
   Unfortunately, 2sense is an alias and we are not privy to his original screen name and therefore can't look up his many reviews. Boy, I bet someone misses that perk!LOL.
   If she is a cop, I hope that people stay away. But, if she is legitimate, some people may owe her an apology.


P.S. Pearl Jam in 1 more day! Yahoo!!!

-- Modified on 6/4/2003 3:45:45 AM

The problem that hobbyists have in discerning which providers are real, which are rip-offs and which are LE bears some analogy with the problems faced by the protagonists in Don Siegel's "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" or John Carpenter's "The Thing". With very limited information, how do we know who is human and who is alien, especially when aliens can look just like humans?

Providers have an advantage in learning which hobbyist is the real deal, by using as much (or as little) screening as they wish. Particularly in San Diego, providers do extensive screening, learning our real names, home addresses and phone numbers, work addresses and phone numbers, references from other providers etc.

On the other hand, hobbyists have virtually no such information about providers, except for what's present on their advertising. For established providers that are well-reviewed on TER, this isn't so much of a problem because their extensive reviews give the hobbyist a high degree of confidence that they're real. For new providers with either no or a few reviewers on TER, there is no such assurance. Here, hobbyists are left to their own devices to figure out "who is human, and who is the alien". One can't even tell a priori who the real hobbyists are, since LE can and do post on this board in their many guises.

A wrong choice made by the hobbyist can have severe consequences. Any hobbyist showing up at a sting operation is considered by LE to be "guilty", just by being there. The assumption that LE will arrest you only if you proposition the "provider" is erroneous. LE make up their own rules, and often lie when it suits their purposes. The best way to avoid arrest is for the hobbyist never to show up at these stings.

So extreme caution is called for when approaching new providers. Any techniques that we hobbyists use to avoid arrest can be surmounted by LE, especially if they are willing to commit crimes (e.g., perjury) under "color of authority".

-- Modified on 6/4/2003 7:41:59 AM

Aren't you a case of the pot calling the kettle?

Her telephone number has been used before by others of her ilk…the non female sort. When in doubt ask us ladies who screen thoroughly and are well liked in the community. You might not like to be screened well but there are benefits to getting through the process as you then become someone with whom we are more likely to share useful information.

The most obvious one was the new girl/new reviewer.  However, that alone is not the only reason.  There are several other signs associated with this provider to make one proceed with caution.

There are a bunch of new ladies who don't trigger wariness from those who participate on the board.  The European ladies that come into town for a week or two at a time seem completely legitimate.  Even though the pictures may not be of the same lady, you still see a very attractive lady that looks similar to the picture.  

Lara J was not the only one who was looked at with suspicion.  When Autumn first appeared on the board, she was looked at with suspicion as well.  The one thing in common that both of these ladies had was that either they stood up for themselves or a known client stood up for them.  This hasn't really happened in this case so far.

The real problem was Lara came on a little to enthusiastically and naive.

Her postings were from lack of experience & knowledge, and they came at a time when San Diegans were "on a heightened state of alert" for LE activity.

the suspicions on the lady in question may b RIGHT.
thank you all the whistle blowers !!!

An unfortunate corallary to the situation described so well by 2sense is that legitimate new providers will have tough going in this atmosphere of legitimate fear (NOT paranoia).  

I'm afraid the only advice I have to give to such newcomers is "patience and fortitude".  You're starting out at a bad time.

Yes, I saw what supergirl had to say about others of her kind with the same number. great catch. With rock solid information like that, I will stay away.

Since I have never been a moderator, I'm a little lost on the statement. As you have noticed, there is an envelope next to my screen name. That is the only name I post with on TER. What does the pot call the kettle??LOL

All the rhetoric such as "Prove It" is rediculous.  Better safe than sorry.  Truth is, there are no less than 5 solid "tipoffs" in her ad (combined with the "newbies" jumping to "her" defense).
In my mind, there is absolutely NO chance this is a legit provider, as for "Prove It", hell - anyone has that option - including 24 hrs room and board.

I disagree that SD LE is "hung up" on sex.  Cops are like reporters - they follow public opinion.  Going after a "productive" citizen like John Moores (the bribery scandal) is political suicide - far too many SD residents are sports fans.  On the other hand, NOBODY comes out in support of the adult right to choose our entertainment - these are politically safe arrests, meaning career building decisions.  Providers are "persona non grata" in our society, unfortunately.  Most are described as drug users, AIDS carriers and outright criminals.  We "hobbyists" (God I hate that term) on the other hand, are labeled as sexual deviants.  What cop in his right mind WOULDN'T parade such arrests around?

If John Moores were arrested in one of these stings, you would NEVER hear about - too many backs to be scratched.  Just my humble opinion.

Although there are somethings I agree with in your post rugburn, I think John Moore is toast. Not because of the bribery scandal with Valerie Stallings, but because of the Peregrine meltdown and his insider trading. Moore sold off approximately ~600 million dollars of his Peregrine shares, when as CEO he knew (or should have known) of shady accounting practices approved by Arthur Andersen and his audit board. Don Bauder, late of the San Union Tribune and now of the Reader, has wrote extensively on this.

Moore will be targeted here by the George W. administration for much the same reason that Martha Stewart has been indicted for insider trading - they're both high-profile Democrats and it will take some of the heat off of George W. pals like Ken Lay, late of Enron.

Personally, I think a much stronger case can be made against Moore because far more investors/employees were hurt than with the Stewart case. Even Father Joe Carroll won't be able to save him.

I must plead ignorance. Please tell me what the 5 "solid" tip offs are. I read her ad and didn't see them. I know that LE has used that type of ad before, but that's it. Also, supergirl stated that the phone # has been used by alleged Johns that were LE. So, those are the only 2 things that I can think of. The second thing isn't obvious to hobbyists.  So, please educate me. Thanks.

To educate you would be to educate the dark side.  Think about it.

Note also that "thatotherguy" jumped all over me (see above) for indicating that the provider in question may not be the real deal.

This may be one of those things where everyone, including LE, should be doing their own due diligence.

2sense, I had no intention to jump all over you. I only stated that I have seen this happen more than once. Lara was not the first legit provider to get beat up on this board when she first arrived. Now, after supergirl's post, I do believe that this girl is most likely LE and will stay away. If I don't know what to look for in LE's ads, how will I know one when I see one? I was just asking for soem help. Jeesh!For those that don't want to post on the board, there is TER mail.

And I didn't mean to jump all over you either, thatotherguy.

The problem, though, is a complex one. If it is true that provider "TinaBGood" is LE, then ipso facto her client "NAGLAF" is also. It's interesting that "NAGLAF" has had nothing to say in this thread after his first posting. These internet sting operations by LE are a relatively new phenomenon. Even the first crude LE advertisements/websites have snared dozens of hobbyists.

Earlier in my postings I may have said that LE are morons. For this, I sincerely apologize. What I meant to say is that they often "act" like morons. This doesn't mean they're necessarily stupid. If we give away details (through board postings or TER mail to the wrong person) on the "tells" indicating their web advertising is LE, then they are surely smart enough to adapt the ads to catch even relatively sophisticated hobbyists. Indeed, just the fact there are "tells" associated with their ads is giving away a lot of information.

My original advice stands. Unless you're a thrill-seeking hobbyist with little to lose by an arrest in a LE sting, stick with established providers. For new bona fide providers, I wish you well and hope you stick with it. As stated by thatotherguy, Lara J was able to weather the initial storm to become an established provider.

-- Modified on 6/6/2003 4:03:30 PM