It had been a few days since I checked your SD board and Holy Shit. Some poor bastard asks for info and ya'll rip him to shreds.  It sure is nice looking down from our pedestals to tell someone how ignorant they must be because they couldn't see the 286 profiles and then verify them.  There are bucket loads of fake reviews in every city. There are bucketloads of inflated reviews in every city. There are bucketloads of reviews with bad info because some guys can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground and couldn't see the difference between 5 ft and 5'8" or A cup and C cup!  

Its also fun to sit on high and ASSUME everyone knows just how fucking paranoid people are in San Diego. The only reason I figured it out is because my travel schedule is planned enough in advance that I can lurk on a board for a while to get a slight understanding before I start any in depth research. I can see what guys are the posers, what guys are the serious hobbyists and which girls you can ask a question of without a lot of grief. BUT THAT TAKES TIME.  Not every guest of your city will have 2 months to lurk.

What surprises me most about the past few threads was that some of you were people I thought were approachable resources.

I don't know this guy who asked for help but I just thought someone else could add some out of town perspective to this.  Guys who travel RELY on the kindness of strangers. The reviews have so many questions swirling around them that you need that extra input. He likely had narrowed his list already and was hoping one of you were kind enough to VALIDATE what he "thought" he had found. I just don't see this kind of viciousness on the other boards. There's usually more tact even when they're instructing a newbie.

I couldn't agree more with you.  I am in San Diego - no longer a participant in the hobby - more of a recovering hobbiest.  I have never seen a community as dysfunctional as this one.  There seems to be cliques of hobbiests combined with providers that are so blinded by their paranoia, they can't be nice.  It kinda reminds me of the hypocrites in the church parking lot - they shake hands with you, say "Peace", but when your out in the parking lot ready to leave - watch the middle fingers flying.  I don't participate that often for the very reasons you cite.  When I do participate, WHOMEVER GirlNextDoor is, will supress my posts for NO REASON.  I don't get it.  Oh boy, I can hardly wait for the flames.  C'mon - gang bang me.

I couldn't agree more, the people that dominate this board act like they were born with the information, and wait like vultures on a limb for a newbie to ask what they deem as a stupid question. I wonder why more people don't paticipate. HUH

I understand what you're saying, I do. But, there really isn't a good way to answer some of these questions. In doing so, you likely can incriminate yourself, or put her at risk.

I think it's food for thought, and we will ALL come up with something more accomodating, yet cautious.

Honestly, we are LIGHTYEARS of improvements over what we used to be - and for the most part, really ARE a good bunch.

Right, everyone?

Once again I am in your gratitude.

Scampr is someone who I have said a couple of nice things to on the boards (and, I believe) in a PM once, so I may be one of those previously reliable sources he mentioned.  If so, I am sorry to hear it, because I think that this whole scenario has been blown out of proportion, and several regulars on this board (myself included) are unfairly being made out to be paranoid, rude, or just mean.  

I am not going to go into a defense of my posts, or sit here and defend regular SD board posters like Naughtius Maximus or Que Pasa, other than to say that I stand by what I have said all along, that the initial thread was vague and undefined, and given his stated criteria, the initial responses were not out of line.  After that, he was the first one who fired an acerbic volley, and then the ball rolled downhill from there, to include a different poster stoking the fire for an unknown purpose.

I have received many PM's from people I don't know in my 16 months on TER, and I have ALWAYS helped them out.  I myself have sent out even more requests for information, and you know what?  Almost 80% of them have gone unanswered. As such, I do not feel that I am an unfair player on TER at all, and almost everyone on the National DB would agree with me (hey, you can't satisfy all the people all the time).  Anyone who has ever thought I have acted unfairly has always been welcome to PM me, and I have received a few of those over the period I have been here.  I even received one regarding this fracas, and I was able to come to a much better understanding with that person and respect their viewpoint as well.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there are many reasons why SD has a rough rep, and LE is not the only one.  My personal paranoia level is fairly low.  However, I do not suffer foolishness, and this scenario is becoming foolish.  I don't go in and lecture people on other boards about how their board should be.  If you want change, get involved and change it from the ground up.  Coming in with guns blazing is just going to piss people off, whether it is a one review non-VIP or whether it is someone with 100 reviews and a history of TER involvement.  

As this board is currently unmoderated, I invite anyone who thinks that they can make this board a happier place to post to please do everything you can to make it so.  Post regularly, come up with threads that are positive and do not promote discord, and LEAD BY EXAMPLE over time, instead of coming in here and telling us how paranoid we all are and expecting us all to just agree with you.

-- Modified on 5/1/2004 7:06:56 PM

Why is this guy “some poor bastard”? Because he’s too lazy or ignorant to use one of the primary SELF HELP tools on TER? Or even worse, too cheap to put out a measly $20 or submit a few reviews for VIP status. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to separate the wheat from the chaff in 286 provider profiles, pick out a few that might be of interest and then send a PM to a few of the reviewers to get the last bit of personal information that could help make his mind up. Of course there are falsified reviews to contend with but a well-reviewed provider has the law of averages on her side. If she has 3 or 4 pages of reviews and consistently receives 8’s and 9’s for looks and performance, chances are she’s going to live up to the previous reviews, false ones notwithstanding. If she only has a couple of reviews, then he would be wise to give it a miss.That's not too hard to figure out, is it? If perhaps this guy had narrowed down his choices, what’s wrong with PMing a few of the reviewers instead of asking a blanket question from the entire membership here? It’s not too difficult unless you’re not a VIP. In which case the point is moot. If someone can’t PM me for information, there’s absolutely no chance I’m giving up anything to him.
As for being approachable, I’m more than approachable for someone who has a history of reviews and contributes something to either this board or the board in his home territory. I know others that have similar standards. I have no problem giving some general information out to someone I know is legitimate once I have the ok from the person I’m being asked about. I understand that people who travel may rely on the kindness (A.K.A carelessness) of strangers but I’m not buying the line that there isn’t time to do some preliminary research. Give me 12 to 24 hours in any city covered by TER and I’ll find someone worth spending some time with. It’s just not that difficult. Some just choose to try and do it the easy way by having someone else do their homework for them. It sure doesn’t take 2 months to get a feel for the demeanor of a particular board. You've mistaken this one as being vicious. That's just not the case, we’re just cautious and protective of some of the great people we get to share time with. That’s the reason we typically don’t post specific information to the board. The locals here understand that it isn’t just the eyes of hobbyists and providers reading our posts

NM

-- Modified on 5/1/2004 7:08:27 PM

And yet I have never posted a "who is good" post in any city that I have ever visited.  I just think that this is a decision that I have to make for myself based of a ton of information that is available to me.

While I've never been one to pile on to dopes that ask stupid questions, I know that I would never put myself in that position.  

I really don't care what anybody would respond about in a general inquiry.  The reviews speak for themselves!  

While I think the guys riding up in their white horses in SD is a bit too much, I would never fault them for that.  The ladies in SD know what kind of environment they work in and don't really need us to protect them.  Where's Forrest Gump when you need a quote about "stupid".

To Sedona's point - "coming up with something more accomodating, yet catious".
I think that will be coming soon.  It has to because I would bet that there are many out there - who mostly remain quiet - because of the know-it-alls.  Maybe some unemployed web developer will hook up with a business man and create exactly what Sedona suggests.  I can't wait - then I'll participate a little more.

Peace be with you (with no middle finger)...and I welcome your posts to help make things kinder and geltler here.

and I certainly don't have all the answers.

I welcome your posts on here to make things better, and I will never question them, so lead on.

I am actaully familar with the person some of you decided to rip. He does have a memebership. But in going with the theme of the other boards. He felt he could get a better referral from one of you gentlemen. There are many rip offs in town. This board was orginally placed for the guys to enjoy and share info. on providers. Not to witch hunt who is LE and who is not.
Once again I purpose some relfect on the fact this is a fantasy board. There is no law against discussing "things" all day long. If a young lady doesn't do proper screening. That is an issue for her to address. I'm sure my girlfriends agree. I do agree with a previous post that it seems some are guility til proven inncocent. It is difficult to have a site where a different set of rules are dictated by the city, or a 'click' of members. I'm sure many can understand the confusion for a person not familar with the city. I actaully have hope that these new posts and some of my private conversations with some of you will bring new light to the topic/atmosphere. The ecomnic situation, the LE issues, all that is true. My suggestion is to think smarter not so defensively. Food for thought....sadness creates fear, fear creates anger. We are all sad about the economics and not being able to express ourlseves freely. We fear out rights and freedoms are being to taken away. But shouldn't the anger be directed at those who are the cause? Shouldn't the energy go to learning the facts and being smarter about our actual rights? (And not attacking each other)
This whole thing has actaully made me more compassionate. I apprecaite those who wrote privately. Your emails were kind and inoformative. And I hope I was able to provide the same.
I'll alos apologize in advance if my finger nails and I often make type o's. But I get the impresson some of you are feeling me. Kisses, Jai

I see where Jai below was concerned about turning off potential business by a perceived unfriendly attitude here in SD when hobbyists ask for recommendations.

I'm from Phoenix where we have a lot of business travelers who also come on the board asking for recommendations. The travelers probably don't have the time to search through the board or scan hundreds of reviews, so they ask the locals, which seems appropriate to me. (Sure, they may be lazy travelers, LOL, but if a hobbyist wants to take the time to answer, isn't that OK?)

Sometimes my name will come up as a recommendation, and sure enough, the next day I might see an email from the poster, or one from a lurking businessman who saw the same post. So, I'd definitely say the board recommendations are good for my business.

Our LE situation isn't like yours, but we did have a significant LE sting a few months ago. Although people are more cautious with making certain (graphic) posts, recommendations  are still being made.

Based on our LE condition, from talking to other providers, we feel in Phoenix it is the provider's decision to stay above or below the radar. Meaning--it is the lady's choice to advertise or not on Eros, and to have a posting presence on TER or not.

The provider needs to take complete responsibility for her screening as well. If LE poses as a TER member, it's up to the provider to check him out before the appointment is made. It's not the board's fault that LE or weirdos are here. Mentioning a lady's name here isn't going to give LE a lead when she is already plastered all over Eros or has banner ads on the other board...

Not every provider will feel this same way, but I say to give us girls some credit for our decisions, and please keep the recommendations coming.

(And, thank you for Nat'l Provider Appreciation Day, too. )

Chrissy from Phoenix

"The locals here understand that it isn’t just the eyes of hobbyists and providers reading our posts".  Fine, but the topic is about how the people who can least be expected to be aware of this are treated.  No distinction is made between the newbie or out of towner and the local who really should know better.

I usually respond by briefly explaining the LE situation here and suggesting the person do a board search with "sting" as search word.  Then I tell them that given this situation they're not likely to get much help.  If this is endangering either hobbyists or providers, someone please enlighten me as to how that is.

I've love this board for years, but lately it seems to be turning into a closed mutal admiration society or "Grand Legion of the Old Guard".  It's getting really annoying and I thank scampr for taking the time to open this thread.

I've seen many times where a guy has narrowed down his field of search and just wants the men to weigh in on which would be a better chance.

You seem to be forgetting is that what's good for one guy may not be great for another, so narrowing a search is VERY necessary.

Most of us that answer the no review, no participation, alias guys answer to read the discussion board, do a search, and narrow it down for themselves.

If you want to see that as vultures on guy asking a stupid question, you're entitled.

Many of us realize just how inlaid the BAD BOYS are on this board, and if we were THAT bad, we'd just offer up the as a lustylauries for the stupid questions rather than letting them know there's a wealth of knowledge here if one would spend HALF the time narrowing a search rather than NO time and just asking a question.

Nevermind that there are KUDOS to the great girls on almost every page by a guy that just hasn't had a chance to write a review.

Why should anyone else pick a girl for a guy they don't know?

Elise [email protected]

It's the no-reviewers, non participants that NEED to read the discussion board and CAREFULLY search the reviews for themselves.

Without this education, they're likely to be hurt.

A few words of wisdom, no matter how ascerbic they may sound, is still the excellent way to go.. NEVERMIND, anyone with VIP can receive PMs from a girl that feels she fits the bill without putting anyone else at risk for a consipiracy charge.

I myself used to recommend girls until my attorney told me about the Felony to commit a misdemeanor crap that LE could pull.

It's merely too risky for those of us that realized LE is entrenched on the san diego board.


Elise [email protected]

Also VIP status obviously shows who the ripoffs are, yet it doesn't show who the bad girls are.

This is why naughtius tends to point people back to the information that's already there.

How disinteresting would this board be if all of these posts were answered?  

"Who should I see?"  and then a list of names, nobody agrees on.

Best to just leave the searches up to the searcher.  He can narrow his own field.

Elise [email protected]

For clearly fantasy purposes and definitely not a reflection of any illegal activity which may or may not ever occur:

An out of town visitor does a preliminary search with his preferred criteria. Finds very few so reduces his criteria figuring its sunny SoCal and maybe he can forego one or two of his favorite activities to spend time with someone gorgeous.  He's eventually got a short list but he knows all reviews aren't created equal so he starts monitoring a board to see what he might see. Maybe one of the serious local hobbiests has reviewed someone on his short list (kind of like the girls asking for a provider referral).  Or if he's lucky there will be a retired provider or friendly confidant to chat with.  Most any guy who has ever asked a retired girl for a referral  knows its as good as GOLD.  Anyway at the time of searching he has narrowed it down after much deliberation to 4 girls. There aren't a lot of 9s or 10s awarded in San Diego so maybe the bench is set pretty high or maybe the 10s are all in LA?? He notices that one of the ladies on his short list but not the final four is a very frequent poster and seems to be temporarily retired as she recovers.
As an aside he notices a very elegant poster who would be on top of his list but seems to be officially retired. So he asks the not-yet-returned-to-active-duty gal for a hand. Thankfully she says she's heard good things about two of the four. Amazingly enough 2 of the four and 2 more of the short list are outed as probable LE before he fcontacts them. Thank God he lurked or he would have been in deep mierda!  So lets review. Now mister happy traveller looks back over his research and reorganizes after deciding that he still wants to find company even though it might be safer to just wack-off in SD than take a risk.  In fact the risk seemed so high he brought a friend with him to insure he had company. So now there's 3 finalists. Jenni, LillyJune and Amber Grey(for some variety) At THAT time, Jenni had pages of reviews. Seemed safe, seemed like a great girl for a date. Not a freak but variety is the spice of life.  LillyJune seemed amazing, he couldn't wait to meet her but at THAT time she had all of 4 reviews.  And Amber, well he hadn't been with someone who could be 18 since he was in college and she had a little freak in her, seemed like they could have fun. At THAT time she had 6 reviews and one was as a rip-off, yikes.  So armed with that info he's ready for SD.  So of course, Jenni has oral surgery, LillyJune has a friend from out of town and all his plans seem to be falling apart.  Jenni kindly refers a friend but she isn't Jenni and he can't remember why she didn't make the final list. Anyway, it seems he did his due diligence. He thinks everyone ought to do their due diligence. But he remembers what its like to be a newbie. He thanks his lucky stars that he had the time before going to SD to lurk on the board or he WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN ABOUT the LE problems, the fake LE robbing girls, the fake postings of reviews on particular girls, the bogus ads (can we atleast admit that LE is posting some really fine damn women) because a TER review search won't always reveal all that. A TER review search wouldn't reveal that Amber and Kali split and got back together [sort of] or that a couple of the girls that many SD guys really like (Ciera and Vicki Vogue) aren't from SD - ya gotta pay close attention some times. He remembers what it was like to have to go to other towns on short notice and thinks "God help anyone who goes to SD on short notice" because if LE is that good, that focused they can flip any girl.  He's also wondering how does a new girl get a stamp of approval in SD? Maybe we get naughtius and QP and destruct little "inspected by" temporary tattoos that they affix to the behinds of any new entrants to the market. That would be cool, but I digress.

By the way, thank you for the thoughtful responses to this thread. I may have started it a little too emotionally without taking all sides to the story in full consideration (I thought I tried). But I still stand by the underlying theme: we all need a hand sometimes. He might not have followed the protocol we wanted but he definitely didn't deserve to get the LE girls links as a referral, or told he had no sense, chasitised that he was not as respected as someone else, told to stay in LA, called a loser, told his comments are bs, called egotistical, called lazy, told to get off the board if he doesn't like to take shit, etc, etc...

I hope this guy isn't a dick. I'd hate to be defending a priniciple only to find that the person behind the prinicple didn't deserve it!

If you took any time to look at the context of my ealier comments, then you would have found that I only replied AFTER the original poster became abusive. Rather than just back away with his tail between his legs, he decided to strike out against others here. Not exactly a smart move on his part.


Anyone who has frequented these local boards knows what questions can and cannot be asked and if so, then how to ask them. It is not rocket science here. Also, I doubt that the original poster was a VIP, for if he was, then he could have done the necessary research as earlier mentioned by NM. Instead, it looked as if he just wanted an "handout." None of us sits around here on our thumbs, waiting for the next moron to come along with a stupid post just so we can flame him. But sometimes, the morons get abusive and just step in their shit further and land up making it way too easy for us to ignore.


I do like your suggestion about the "approval" process for providers. However, it has already been done...not with temporary tatoos however, but with those things called "provider reviews." They can be located under the "search" features located here.


Finally, and this is just my opinion as I am no angel either, but the guy you are apparently trying to defend is a dickhead. Just look at his earlier posts for confirmation!

the example of someone doing their due diligence is not the scenario that started all this. Although I hear that the original poster IS a VIP member (unconfirmed) of this board, he obviously didn't use the resources at his disposal to narrow down a select few to choose from and contact. This is why we have a post that consists solely of "I am looking for a small provider- under 5'5", 105 lbs, thanks(eom)". Had he shown the slightest clue that he had made even the smallest of efforts the response probably wouldn't have been as harsh. Given the one review by the poster and the lack of much tangible contribution on his home board, he most likely wouldn't have gotten a favorable response anyhow. Who knows though.
The LE angle has very little to do with this. Sure there is an LE presence on this board and most of the information I pass is in the form of links to reviews readily available on the board or via backchannel on and off this board. I NEVER will post specific information about anyone on the public discussion board. The last thing I'm going to do is give LE a target. I really have no sympathy for a newb asking for information. I will however point to a way that a newb can find out for himself what he needs to know. Newbies have been accommodated in the site with their own board where they can educate themselves on how to find what they want without running into an undesirable element. I've been at this much longer than I care to say and I'm not some 65-year-old geezer (pardon me to all the geezers out there) and I didn't have the luxury of a newbie board to show me the ropes. I taught myself to use every available means to find quality company. Anyone remember net bulletin boards or usenet? I sure do. Care to guess who taught me about them? It was me! After all I've done to help myself, why should I or anyone else for that matter give information to someone too lazy to use a simple review search engine? I'm not too big on name calling but if the term lazy fits then so be it.
Scampr, you pretty much summed it up when you said that "we all need a hand sometime". These posters/panhandlers that are unable or unwilling to do what they need to do to be successful need to use that hand a bit more frequently.

NM




-- Modified on 5/3/2004 6:09:03 PM

In case there was really any doubt, here's a link to Senor Alphonso's website. He is of "sniffing out badges" fame. It clearly indicates why we need to be viligant and refrain from providing too much information to people who are asking for "referrals".

Enough said, bro! Let's move on.....

Yes, let's move on.

-- Modified on 5/4/2004 1:21:02 PM