What are ya?  Fuckin' morons????

First, you let a conservative republican with an agenda get Gray Davis recalled, then you elect a dofus who wasn't even born in this country become governor simply because he's made a few decent movies...

Let's face it, I like Arnold, but the only thing he has going for him over Gary Coleman is that he's taller.

And does anyone but me find it ironic that the Republicans crucified Clinton for getting a blowjob and having a few affairs, but throw their support behind a guy who has clearly gone way over the line with literally DOZENS of women against their will?

Well, you elected him... now you deserve anything that you get.... I'll be back!

(Hey, nothing personal... we've been ragging on the guys from Boston, so I thought we'd pick on the California guys for a change - lol)

-- Modified on 10/8/2003 8:15:38 AM

NEVER get eddie mad, now you see why(lol)!!

Hey eddie Clinton was an out right ass hole he deserved what he got i am no demacrat by no means i my self am a strong Republican

it seems like all those demacrats are always getting caught with there pants down look at Clinton and All the Kennedys just to mention a few
hogan

Eddie,  I'm a registered Democrat, a 50+ year resident of California, who in the last election voted for the Green Party candidate.  Yesterday, I cast my votes to 1)recall Davis, and 2) bring in Arnold.

To make a long story short...Davis had abandoned those who supported him (myself, 5 years ago), and his record showed him to be a very poor administrator and an even worse 'leader'.  He seems to care more about himself than the people of this state.

I voted my conscience yesterday. I didn't vote "for" a Republican or "against" a Democrat. Rather, I cast my votes to send a message to BOTH major parties that the type of candidates coming from BOTH parties are simply not acceptable. After the day is done, I suspect that this is why Davis is out and Arnold is moving to Sacramento.

Things in California are not as crazy as they look. There were many, many reasons why people here are unhappy with both parties. Hopefully this election will serve as a wake-up call to both major parties.

Ed, thanks for your many contributions to this and other boards.
Respectfully,
Humboldt

if being a "Fuckin' moron" means:

1. Not wanting more of the government in my wallet anymore.
2. Not wanting my vehicle reg. to be 2K/year.
3. Wanting a balanced state budget......and what are those 40,000 government employees that Joe Davis hired doing anyway? How come we didn't seem to need em before Joe Davis was elected?
4. Not wanting every last California business to move to Vegas and AZ.

Then, I guess I'm pround to be a moron.

Oh, one minor detail "Republicans crucified Clinton for getting a blowjob"......no everyone likes a good bj. In my opinion, the dems were brilliant at characterizing/spinning this as a sex issue and not LYING UNDER OATH (you and I would be in jail for this).

All said and aside from politics, I do like your posts

-- Modified on 10/8/2003 6:56:58 PM

Nothing personal?, you call us "Fuckin Morons" and were not supposed to take it personal?. Eddie I can tell you are upset and if I lived in Jersey, like you do, I would be upset all the time and maybe even suicidal, but just take two Philly Cheese Steaks and you will feel better in the morning. Its easy to take pot shots at California and many people do, but the underlying theme is jealousy and sometimes its so thick, you can cut it with a knife. I voted for Arnold and the majority of the electorate voted for Arnold and now he is the Govenator of the great state of Kalifornya and the rest of the country can go to hell. Now about your post, if the truth be known, you don't give a shit about California, because Eddie you are nothing but a whore and this was just a cheap shameless plug for your Pornstar Weekend and I mean that in a good way.(ROTFLMAO)

as always
HAPPY HUNTING

Hey I voted for Larry Flynt! So did roughly 15,000 other people. I also voted AGAINST the recall. I think it's bad for democracy that when someone doesn't like the way the govenor is doing his job they can try to fire him just because he passes a bill they don't like. I find it appalling... The recall was designed in the event of corruption in office. Davis didn't committ any crime, there was no corruption in the governor's office. What there was from my prospective was a man trying ot find a way to bring down our ridiculous state deficit. Personally, there are too many cars in CA anyway... We have no real public transportation system, our highways are over crowded and yet people complain... about everything.

What I find REALLY amazing is that Mary Carey only got 9,000 to Gary Coleman's 12,000! [Angelyne the billboard queen only got 2000 btw.]

So why'd I vote for Flynt? Because with a Bush, a Dick and some Ass [Ash] in office we might as well have some good Porn too...

love, Sinn

-- Modified on 10/8/2003 9:47:53 AM

1. Not wanting more of the government in my wallet anymore.

You may want to move to a tax free haven then, perhaps the Bahamas or the Cayman Islands. If you're convinced that your individual overall tax burden is going to go down with Arnie, don't be so sure. And don't be disappointed if the taxes don't go down. Arnie was mum on virtually any details as to what he plans to do from a policy standpoint, and a Democratically controlled CA legislature is going to tie him in knots.


2. Not wanting my vehicle reg. to be 2K/year.

I assume you drive a Porsche, Mercedes or Rolls? I drive a German import myself, and can relate. Again, don't be disappointed if the 2% fee isn't kept in place, or not reduced to your satisfaction.

3. Wanting a balanced state budget......and what are those 40,000 government employees that Joe Davis hired doing anyway? How come we didn't seem to need em before Joe Davis was elected?

I assume than that you're OK then with Bush running up a 400+ billion dollar deficit, and growing, but you'd only insist on budget balance for the state? Would you throw these 40,000 CA state workers out on to the street then. Just fire them outright? And add them to the 2+ million folks who have lost jobs in the last two and a half years?


4. Not wanting every last California business to move to Vegas and AZ.

Arnie will attempt to reduce taxes on businesses, and lower their workers comp obligations, which will hopefully bring businesses and jobs back to our state. Beyond that, none of us really knows what to expect. I did find it amusing to listen to the endorsements of the right wing talking heads on the radio, supporting Arnie...a guy who is by his own admission, pro gay rights, pro choice, and for some limited gun control. Anathema to Bush and the right wing of the GOP. After all, the GOP wouldn't support Republican Richard Riordan last time(a guy I voted for) because he was a moderate, pro business, but pro choice candidate, just like Arnie........



-- Modified on 10/8/2003 10:05:19 AM

LA board and won't repeat it here.

Let's agree to disagree.

Of course I'm a whore... and a cheap one at that - lol.

My post was made somewhat tongue in cheek, and the "fuckin morons" may have been a little strong... if I offended anyone, sorry

But.....

As to the "underlying theme" being jealousy, maybe twenty-five years ago that may have been true... California was seen as the trend-setters:  As California went, so followed the rest of the country.  Then came the concept of "propositions"... Propositions have ruined California politics... Anyone with a hair-brained idea and a couple of thousands signatures can get it on a ballot, and it can be passed with no mechanism in place to implement or fund it.  Then the State government if forced to find a way to pay for it, either by cutting other programs or creating new revenue streams (by, oh, let's see.... imposing a tax on luxury cars?)

Orange County was once one of the most prosperous counties in the U.S.  Propositions drove it into bankruptcy...

Gray Davis isn't the problem with California...  the problem is that there's too much power in the hands of the citizens, who have absolutely no concept of how a government needs to be run... It's not their fault:  Everybody wants as much as they can get for as little as possible (better education for their children, more police on the street, less taxes) but in the real world, there needs to be trade-offs and compromises, which is why we elect people who know how to do those things rather than just do everything by majority vote.

And pardon me, and with no disrespect meant, but I just don't see how electing somebody with NO experience in government, who had no clear answers as to how he was going to achieve all the great "sound-bite friendly" promises he made is going to be able to help the fourth largest economy in the world get back on track fiscally.

As long as propositions continue to dominate California policy decision making, it will be a no-win situation for whichever party is in power.

And by the way, the republican gentleman who started the whole recall ball rolling publicly stated that he regretted the whole thing, and suggested people reject the recall.

-- Modified on 10/8/2003 1:05:12 PM

My original post was meant somewhat tongue in cheek, and in retrospect the "fuckin' morons" comment crossed the line, and for that I apologize...

But when you say that you didn't vote "for" a republican or "against" a democrat, but rather voted as a way of sending a message to both parties, well, your vote, regardless of intention, WAS a vote for a republican, and by doing so the message you sent was that conservatives now have a mechanism to oust, or at least try to oust, any elected official they oppose if that person happens to have a low approval rating.

As to things not being as crazy as they seem, I humbly disagree... see my reply to jldick50 below.

Here in NY we elected HILLARY CLINTON!!!!!!
People go for style of substance.

Style over substance.

NY MORON HERE

I always smile whenever I hear the outrage contained in the  "he lied under oath!" mantra...

Let's examine perjury a little bit... people lie all of the time udner oath without being prosecuted.  It's how important the lie is to the main issue of the testimony that is the determining factor...  If a guy is fucking his best friends wife and witnesses a murder out of her window, and testifies on the stand that he was just returning some tools he borrowed, who really cares?

Clintons was there solely because of a conservative driven witch-hunt: he never should have been called to testify, the question should never have been asked, and for God's sake, he lied about a blowjob!

Let's look at some other famous lies, and see which ones might have or have had an effect on citizens, as opposed to just Bill Clinton's family...

Nixon and watergate

Regan and Iran-Contra

Ollie North and Iran Contra

Bush and the weapons of mass destruction

Bush and the nuclear materials in Africa (Even the CIA avowed that one!)

Bush claiming to be the environmental President

Bush's claim to be the education President

Bush's supression of his drunk-driving charge and his refusal to talk about his cocaine use - I wonder what he'd say under oath?

Bush's claims regarding the ties between Iraq and Bin Laden

The conservative media's claim that 9/11 was Clinton's fault (when if fact the Clinton administration had spent more time and money toward counter-terrorism than any President in U.S. history, and had developed a home-security plan that was passed onto the Bush administration, who stone-walled it's implementation untill after 9/11 - Among other things, Clinton's plan called for the establishment of a Dept. of Homeland Security and the open sharing of information among the FBI, the CIA, and the NSA.  The Clinton plan was put into effect post 9/11 by the Bush administration in almost the exact form it had been proposed)

The Bush administration claims that Clinton had destroyed the armed service's readiness to fight a war (The SAME armed services that kicked butt in Iraq).

Ari Fleischer's claim that the Clinton people trashed the white house before leaving (Refuted by the GAO)

The conservative media's claim that Clinton had Vince Foster murdered!  Come ON!

Pat Robertson's claim that gays and adulterers were responsible for 9/11

Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannerty, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter - anything that comes out of their mouths

WHAT! did you really say that Eddie "the problem is that there is to much power in the hands of the people", well thank you very much Joseph Stalin for you insightful observation, but don't read the Declaration of Independence, because it will give you fits. "Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" " and it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it", maybe the people in Jersey don't have enough power and the people in California have it just right.

as always
HAPPY HUNTING

Wow.......feel like I struck nerve here!

In regards to a "conservative driven witch-hunt", no conversative that I know cared who was blowing Clinton. Clinton was on trial for his doings with Ms. Paula Jones not an agenda driven by conservatives. Furthermore, conservatives such as James Roden, who was charged with prosecuting Clinton didn't want to have anything do it. At a Luncheon, Roden stated, "our office is hoping that the charges aren't true" (more for the sake and appearance of the office of the presidency than for Clinton).

Do you think that Reagan lied when he replied "I do not recall" 205 times in the Iran/Contra hearings? LOL...

1. "You may want to move to a tax free haven then, perhaps the Bahamas or the Cayman Islands"

Actually I'm perfectly fine with paying my fair share of taxes. I'm not fine with wastefulness- government or otherwise. If the deficit money hasn't been wasted, then what services have been increased since Joe took office? Certainly the Public School System hasn't gotten better.

2. "I assume you drive a Porsche, Mercedes or Rolls? I drive a German import myself, and can relate. Again, don't be disappointed if the 2% fee isn't kept in place, or not reduced to your satisfaction."

Yes I do, but about forget about me. It's the reg. cost that gets spread all the way across the board and adds to the cost of doing business in CA....

3. "I assume than that you're OK then with Bush running up a 400+ billion dollar deficit, and growing, but you'd only insist on budget balance for the state? Would you throw these 40,000 CA state workers out on to the street then. Just fire them outright? And add them to the 2+ million folks who have lost jobs in the last two and a half years?"

One minor diff. when comparing Bush with Joe. With Bush, the majority of America supported the war against terrorism knowing that there was going to be a price tag for it. However with Joe, apparently not too many Californians, including dems knew about and would be supportive of his running up a deficit. As for the workers, I again have to ask what are they doing and why weren't they necessary in the previous admin. Are they contributing to needed services in CA? You use the words "just fire them outright? If they're really not needed in government, I think of placing them in jobs that are currently being lost to neighboring states.

4. "Arnie will attempt to reduce taxes on businesses, and lower their workers comp obligations, which will hopefully bring businesses and jobs back to our state. Beyond that, none of us really knows what to expect. I did find it amusing to listen to the endorsements of the right wing talking heads on the radio, supporting Arnie...a guy who is by his own admission, pro gay rights, pro choice, and for some limited gun control. Anathema to Bush and the right wing of the GOP. After all, the GOP wouldn't support Republican Richard Riordan last time(a guy I voted for) because he was a moderate, pro business, but pro choice candidate, just like Arnie........"

Actually, fiscally conservative and socially liberal is the perfect candidate in my opinion. Riordan had those qualities and was an excellent Mayor. Too many Republicans are fiscally liberal and socially conservative.....not my cup of tea. One of my clients is a major insurance company, wherein after a recent meeting, one of the CEO's was telling me that the workers comp. for a person who earns $100/day is now $150/day (yes the insurance is 150% of the salary). If Arnold gets a handle on workers comp, that in it self is a major benefit to CA.


-- Modified on 10/8/2003 5:46:19 PM

I think Newt Gingrich had his pants down a few times in spite of his belief in "Family Values".  The congressman from Texas who was going to replace him as speaker was dropped for the same reasons.  It's something that is neither Democrat or Republican, Black or White.  It's non-partisan if you can look at it without bias.

But Arnold cares about the children... LOL

Eddie,

Consider this: Clinton wasn't brought to trial for having a blowjob.  He was being deposed in a sexual harassment trial, something Democrats once thought should be taken seriously.  Why was his blowjob pertinent?  Because federal law makes a defendant's past sexual behavior admissible in sexual harassment trials.  That law was signed in 1994...by President Clinton.

Funny that Democrats think Schwarzenegger shouldn't be governor for squeezing a few booties and Clarence Thomas shouldn't be on the Supreme Court because he told a colleague some dirty jokes, but Bill Clinton's lying under oath and obstructing justice in a sexual harassment trial is "just lies about sex."

And before you swing the "right wing conspiracy" hatchet at me, I walked precincts for the guy in 1992.  I don't condemn Clinton for having a hard-on.  I condemn him for neutering the Democrats and women's movement on issues like sexual harassment.

First off, he may have a speech problem but Arnold is intelligent and driven. And I believe him to be sincere. He's made more money than his next 5 generations will be able to spend and now he's going to give back by leading the state out of this mess.

Furthermore, he has not been named Dictator. The one thing out of staters apparently haven't heard (or are ignoring) is that he's building a team of moderates from both parties - and probably a few independents. Very sharp people who are not beholden to Unions, religious groups, e.g. The Usual Suspects who are only interested in their own agendas.

Thirdly, most people in this state are fiscally conservative and socially Liberal. Arnold is a good fit. Davis is a tax and spender and McClintock scares those of us who aren't Hardcore Christians.

Davis fucked up when presented with two big problems. He panicked instead of being a leader. He had to go. He shouldn't have rolled over and been the Electric companies' bitch - and he should have cut spending when the economy started slowing down - instead he raised spending 45%!!! And the Democrats didn't offer anyone worth a shit. Bustamante is an Indian Casino shill who used the N word and got a pass - and he had no plan either, other than Tax The Rich (how original - typical Democratic strategy of trying to incite Class Warfare). Yet Arnold played ass grab with some bitter chicks, NONE of whom came forward - they had to be tracked down by the biased LA Times - and gets skewered. And Arnold apologized - Clinton lied. Not to mention that according to Kathleen Willey (sp?) Clinton is a RAPIST! Davis yammered about 'criminal investigations' - but he seems to forget that the Statute Of Limitations had long since passed - where did he get his law degree - Walmart? The Hitler insinuationss were even sadder.

(edited for grammar)

-- Modified on 10/8/2003 8:00:25 PM

Eddie,

I didn't get Gray Davis recalled and neither did a "conservative Republican with an agenda."  Gray Davis got Gray Davis recalled.  Giving drivers' licenses to illegal aliens, tripling our car taxes, letting power rates, the deficit, taxes, and worker's comp costs balloon out of control...  Man, no Republican could do anything to Gray Davis that he didn't do to himself.

As for Arnold, he was smart enough to get himself elected.  We'll see what he does with it.

No offense, but you really don't know anything about our state:

McClintock was the real Republican in the race. Fiscally and socially conservative. If there had been a Primary Election the Republican Party would have thrown all its resouces behind McClintock to beat Arnold. This just happened in the last election. Richard Riordan, former LA mayor, was a moderate Republican who ran against Christian, far right candidate Bill Simon - Simon won the primary easily despite the fact that deep down everyone knew he had no chance of beating Davis while many thought Riordan could. And Davis only beat Simon by 5% - after the typical dirty Davis campaign.

Arnold's really either an independent or a hybrid.

And the Recall isn't only a tool for the conservatives to use. If a future Republican fucks up as badly as Davis, I'll be signing the petition to kick his/her sorry ass out.

why not dismiss my notion about lying under oath and apply Clinton's own conclusion about lying under oath in regards to Nixon? Ya know where he stated that "the President lied to the American people and should therefore resign".

to talk Dennis Miller into running for the Senate against Barbara Boxer.  Can't wait for the rants.

Yes, I did say the problem is that there is too much power in the hand of the people... perhaps what I should have said is "in the hands of uninformed people"

Elections in this country have become a joke... the winners aren't elected because they're the best qualified for the job; they win because they have more money then the other guy or they are highly recognizable figures... First Regan, then Jesse Ventura, now Arnold with fucking Gary Coleman finihshing near the top!  There are a few posts regarding Mary Carey, remarking and congratulating her on her 10th place finish... Her showing in the race shouldn't be seen as a testament to Mary, it should be seen as an indictment of the voters.  She's a pornstar who knew she had no chance of winning - she was using the race as a publicity stunt to attract attention to herself in the hopes of breaking into mainstream entertainment.  I don't blame her for taking advantage of moronic laws that permitted her to do so, but she shouldn't have gotten ONE SINGLE VOTE.  The fact that she finished 10th should upset anybody who really cares about what is going to happen to their state. (and I'm NOT picking on or singling out California voters... the problem is pandemic, it's just that in California the voter laws allowed the problem to be "reduced to the ridiculous" -     Don't look now, but this whole dog and pony show has been fodder for every late night talk show host and comedian in the country - It's made a laughing stock out of California Politics.  Can any Californian look me in the eye and honestly say that they're proud of this whole recall process?  The very guy who began it all (a republican), publicly announced his regret for starting the entire thing, and suggested that people vote against the recall.

Most people don't vote, and those who do usually don't really examine the platform or policies of who they're voting for.  Do you honestly think Arnold won because he was the best man for the job???  Give me a break!  He won because he a well known celebrity with high-profile recognition... the only solice to be had is that at least he can never run for President.

Getting back to the Declaration of Independence, and my remark about the people having too much power....   The D of I is basically a statement of secession from England.  The REAL backbone of American Democracy is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  It was never intended for this country to be governed by plebicite.  The founding fathers, in their infinite wisdom, realized that there needed to be checks and balances on the amount of power placed directly into the people's hands... The Bill or Rights, for example, is a document who's sole purpose is to LIMIT the power of the majority, in order to protect and insure the basic rights of ALL of the people, not just the ones in power.

And because of the complexity of governing, the originators of these hallowed documents saw that we needed to have informed and experienced people who understood the mechanics of governing to analyze complicated issues and make the correct decisions regarding them.  Where the people's power lies is in selecting those people we feel will preform those functions in our best interest.

But when you take the specialists out of the loop, as California has done with the introduction of the concept of Propositions, the entire system breaks down... I'm not making this shit up; Referendums have ruined California.  They've replaced law making by legislature with law making by plebicite.  But herein lies the problem:

Quoted from The Future Of Freedom, by Fareed Zakaria (Editor of Newsweek International) -

"After Proposition 13 (ground zero for runaway referendums) passed, the state passed dozens of other initiatives, among them Prop 4 (which limited the growth of state spending to a certain percentage), Prop 62 (which requirs supermajorities in order to raise taxes), Prop 98 (which requires that 40% of the state budget be spent on education), and Prop 218 (which applied to local fees and taxes the restrictions of Prop 13)... Yet the state legislature has no power over funds either, since it is mandated to spend them as referendums and federal law require.  Today, 85% of the California state budget is outside of the legislature's or the GOVERNOR'S control (emphasis mine) - a situation unique in the United States and probably the world.  The vast majority of the states budget is 'pre-assigned'.  The legislature squabbles over the remaining 15%.  In California today real power resides nowhere... ...since most government is made via abstract laws and formulas...

... Even with referendums dictating what they do, politicians are still required to translate these airy mandates into reality.  The initiatives have simply made this process dysfunctional by giving politicians responsibility but no power"

And THAT'S what I meant by too much power being in the hands of the people....

I didn't say conservative REPUBLICANS, I said conservatives... The entire trial was instigated, driven and pushed forward by Richard Whitehead,  founder and President of the right-wing Rutherford Institute, and Richard Mellon Scaife, an ultra-conservative Pittsburg billionare who pursued an all out assault on Clinton, funding over 18 seperate lawsuits against the President.

they hated Bill Clinton with a passion that bordered on obsession, and carefully orchestrated the events that culminated in a trial that almost nobody, as you pointed out yourself, wanted.

Paula Jones herself later accused the Rutherford Institute of misleading her, cajoling her with promises of huge financial payments, and when she began to have second thoughts, with veiled threats.

Maybe your definition of a witch-hunt is different than mine, but if it looks liike a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

http://victorian.fortunecity.com/brambles/499/CNP/PaulaJones/paulajones.html

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/clinton/Clintonculwar8-05.htm

At least I didn't call it a "vast right wing conspricy"


-- Modified on 10/8/2003 10:06:28 PM

Listen, I have no problem with Arnold.... I LIKE him, really!  And he talks a good game.  While I've been a democrat all of my life, I have on occasion voted for  moderate republicans, and Arnold's politics are even a little left of moderate.  I think even the republican party has mixed feelings about his election victory.

My problem is with the CONCEPT of Arnold as Governor... The man has absolutely no grounding in public service of any kind, and has no idea of how to run a town, let alone a state... there's just something fundamentally wrong with a political system that favors celebrity over substance.

The problem is, people voted for Arnold, but they elected his management team... they'll be the ones making policy and running the state, with Arnold as their talking head... similar to the current Bush administration!  (Did you ever notice when Dick Cheany is drinking, Bush's mouth never moves)?

As for Clinton as a rapist - come on!  That allegation was proven to be false... hell, if you're going to call him a rapist, why  not go all the way and say he's a serial murderer... if you believe everything you read about him, he had Vince Foster killed, along with his Secretary of State Ron Brown, and anywhere from 4 to 16 other people, indluding marines and state troopers assigned to him, depending on who's story you read.  And no offense, but I find it amusing that you have no problem bringing up Clinton as a rapist, but call the Hitler insinuations "sad"

Now as to "Arnold apologized, Clinton lied"... Oh, it's ok if you just apologize for it? Damn, if only Bill had figured that out, he never would have been impeached! - lol

You really have to look at the whole picture... the trial was a sham from start to finish... They couldn't get him on Whitewater, they couldn't get him on the White House papers, they couldn't get him on Vince Foster, they couldn't get him on ANYTHING, so they (and when I say they, I mean John Whitehead and Richard Mellon Scaife) through the pages of American Spectator (funded by Scaife), exposed the so-called Paula Jones sexual harassment scandal, then cajoled her into suing him with promises of money.

The fact was that they couldn't have cared less for Paula or her "plight"... they used her to get to him, and then used their political cronies like Gingrich to force a sitting President into a no-win situation.  As a sitting President, the suit should have never happened while he was in office, and while ultimately it did damage to Clinton, it did far greater damage to the office of the Presidency.

I don't apologize for Clinton... he doesn't need my apology, and when all the bullshit is cleared away, and with the objectivity that occurs when events are viewed in the future, Clinton's accomplishments as President will far outweigh his short comings.

Arnold what is best in life?  To defeat Gray Davis.  To see him driven before me.  And hear the lamentations of the democrats.

Isn't it ironic that the republican party has chastised Hollywood for their lifestyles and the liberal bias that they feel are conveyed in the movies it produces, yet they're courting Hollywood celebrities to run against democrats?

(By the way, as much as I love Dennis Miller, I don't think he'd stand a chance... he's perceived as too elitist and his personality is way to acerbic for the average person - and his arcane and "insider" references would go over most people's heads - he'd have to become the neo-dennis, with a total personality change to even think about running for office).

-- Modified on 10/8/2003 11:41:35 PM

Ollie North, John Poindexter, Caspar Weinberger(get out of jail free cards).  It's across the board, not limited to any party.

Even thouhg I am just another hobyist like you guys but, I am not american and I do not live in the USA (I live in South America), the issue you are tlaking about is one in wich I would like to put my two cents.
There is something wrong, I think, about modern society and democracy. Two hundred years ago there would heve been no chance that an actor, even the best one around, would get elected. Back then, when there was no TV, no Internet, no radio, the only way a person could get elected was to convience his pears, with the only help of the strenght of is ideas, that he was the right person for the job. It didn´t matter if you were too old, too fat, too bold, too ugly or too gay (have you ever wonder what would have happen if Franklin, Roosvelt or Eisenhower had to run, now a days, against Arnold or anyother big celebrity).
Now, you are complaining because a big mainstream actor got elected because of he being a celebrity. Well, I agree with you guys, there is something wrong about modern society and democracy that favors celebrity over substance. But California is no the only let alone the worst case. In my hometown a very well know shoeshine man ran for city council a few years ago. The man does not even talk well (poor gay is not articule to speak), and had no education at all. But, somehow he was "made" a celebrity by the media. He was interviwed by almost all reporters, newspaper, etc.; beacuese of him being who he was. Sudelly the gay was everywhere: on TV, on posters, on radio, etc. This added to the fact that the the people was tired of old politicians, resulted in him gotting elected. Well, the guy could have not done it worst. First of all, after he was elected it was discovered that the guy had a drinking problem and, during his time in office it got worst. The poor guy also became the biggest asshole in town because he could not handle the money he was receiving and his new status as a "celebrity". Finally, the guy died in a car accident (there was alcohol found in his blood).
But, the point I'm trying to make is that democray, as we all know it (and defend it) has to evolt into a more logical a racional way to elect people. Don´t know what would be the new or the bets way to do it but, if that doesn´t happen we  will all regret it when a big asshle like my hometown´s shoeshine man take charge of the White House.

What's wrong with picking the politician with the best team? Do you think Clinton made all his own policies? Hardly. Especially since most were constructed after a weekend of collecting poll data. I care about results and we have a far better chance with Arnold's team than Davis' or Cruz's.

As far as celebrity, to some extent the politicians are celebrities too. I recall Clinton going on Leno and playing his sax - no talk about 'policies' and 'plans'. And Hillary Clinton won her Senate seat (in a state she didn't reside in) more on her name than on her record. Wait, she didn't have a record. She had never held office. Did you complain about that election?

I don't think Kathleen Willey ever got a chance at justice. And since Clinton is a know liar, I have to give her claim more weight than his denial.

If you'd admit that you're just pissed that a right leaning celebrity won, I'd buy it. If today's headline was "Sean Penn to name his transition team" (that was painful to type) I doubt you'd have called us 'fucking morons'. You'd probably be talking about how great it is to get new blood and perspective into the office.

You're 100% wrong... If Martin Sheen won the election, I'd still feel the same way...  What I abhor is the the cheapening of the election process, the win at any cost attitude of both parties.  Ireally couldn't care less WHO is governor of California... why would I?  My discussion her has been philosophical, since I don't live in Ca.  I have my own asshole governor here in NJ that concerns me more>  

But if you think the republican party is really happy that Arnold won, you're naive... They're happy that a REPUBLICAN won, but let's face it, Arnold doesn't represent  core republican values... but they'll grin and bear it, and hope to ride his coat tails and popularity until hopefully they can install a "true" republican down the road.  Hey, for them it's a no lose situation... they got a democrat out of office, put a republican in, and if he does well they can take credit... if he fails, they can claim that he wasn't a "real" republican...

The electorial process has become a game, and sadly (for us liberals) the republicans are better at it than democrats.

Did I complain about Hillary's election?  I wouldn't have voted for her, but you SERIOUSLY can't compare her to Arnold... Hillary has been involved in politics for decades, and love her or hate her,  she understands the processes and how Washington and government works... She has REAL opinions on issues, and again, love 'em or hate 'em, her ideas on their solution.

As for Clinton being a liar, it astounds me the amount of hubris involved in that statement, compared to the severity and quantity of lies foisted on the American public by the last four republican administrations... Compared to Nixon, Bush Sr., Regan and Dubya, Clinton is an amateur.  And that's not even taking into account the propaganda wing of the republican party, the talking heads:  Limbaugh, Coulter, O'Reilly, and Hannity, oh, and Ruppert Murdock's entire Fox News Channel - How do you know when they're lying?  Their lips are moving!

ANYTIME you even THINK about calling Clinton a liar, pause for a minute and repeat this mantra:  "Watergate - Cambodia - Iran/Contra - " Read my lips: no new taxes" - Weapons of Mass Destruction - Stolen nuclear materials", and then don't go there...

Strangely reminiscent of Chauncey Gardner, the character Peter Sellers played in "Being There", which in a way was a prophetic vision of politics and celebrity....

Hey Eddie, you left out Vietnam, oh I'am sorry that was Kennedy and Johnson's little lie, you know the one that cost 58,000 American lives and wasn't it that liar Nixon who got us out of Vietnam and opened up trade with China?. Just a thought.

as always
HAPPY HUNTING

If you think arnold was way out of line read this article about the outgoing gov. Davis and tell me what you think.  Also I would love to know why that great bastion of journalistic integrity the LA Times made no mention of this during the campaign.

Opening trade to China... geez, you're right... forgot about that one... I take it all back, that makes up for Watergate, Spiro Agnew, The missing 18 minutes, the enemies list, the illegal incursions into Cambodia, the illegal surveillance of American citizens....

And he did get us out of Vietnam... (guess it had nothing to do with the fact that we got our ass kicked!)... I remember it well... "Peace With Honor" - The glorious sight of the last helicopter rising majestically from the roof of the U.S. Embassy, hundreds of the South Vietnamese allies we had abandoned gathered below, tearfully waving goodbye, shouting their thanks as we flew off into the sunset...

Oh you remember Vietnam well do you, well not as well as I do, I spent two tours in Vietnam as a Pathfinder with the First Air Calvalry Division, I have two Bronze Stars with the V device for valor and a Purple Heart,that I won during the TET Offensive of 1968, a Combat Infantry Badge and Jump Wings representing 35 jumps, not that any of this means anything to you, but I just wanted you to know where I was coming from.So what would you have had Nixon do?, he got us out, and the fact still remains that it was two liberals Kennedy and Johnson who got us into a war that cost 58,000 American lives, now you started out this thread by calling every person in California who voted for Arnold a Fuckin Moron and why should you care, I dont even know who the govenor of New Jersey is and could care less and what we do in California is noe of your Damn Business.

as always
HAPPY HUNTING  

-- Modified on 10/10/2003 12:58:37 PM

-- Modified on 10/10/2003 1:46:20 PM