You said I could post off-topic? Here you go.

Me posting a politics topic on this board would be about as useful as me posting a sports topic on this board. And Obama on Letterman is most certainly a political post, whether you went into specifics or discussed issues or not. Obama going on Letterman in the first place is part of a politically-motivated agenda wrapped in a media blitz to push a flailing health care plan and don't kid us if you can't see that. If this bill had the votes, Obama is watching Letterman, not appearing on it. Jenna Jameson on Letterman is a post worthy of this board. Last I checked, neither Obama or Letterman have done porn. If that changes, this would be a great place for us all to discuss it and I'd most certainly welcome your take.

I also read your "final" post on the P&R board and for that board to be useful, it takes the effort of those who want to have that discussion and frankly I don't see you being a part of it or wanting to be. I offered a great deal of insight from the other side last week in response to your seemingly sincere question and there were no strides on your part to engage in the education you claim to seek. You're very quick to attack Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Fox News and you clearly don't watch or listen to any of them so I don't see how a blind, closed-minded approach to the other side's argument is doing anything to open this discussion you say you wish to have. How can you possibly frame your debate behind a cloud like that? This is like reviewing a porn star when you never really met with her and giving her terrible reviews anyway or trashing a movie you didn't see; a CD you didn't listen to. The same fog that allowed liberals to deny John Edwards was having an affair until the exact moment he finally came clean -- when they (just like the rest of us) knew damn well all along that he fathered the child, was cheating on his cancer-stricken wife and was guilty of every single despicable allegation he was saddled with -- is the same fog that keeps liberals from ever considering any of the news sources that covered the Edwards story from the beginning. Your admitted source, MSNBC, is unquestionably the worst offender of this. ACORN has been all over Fox News for a year while the NY Times and mainstream media avoided the story until the epilogue. Same with Van Jones. And you still accept the coverage of these media outlets as being fair or honest? Try actually watching Beck or listening to Rush, Laura Ingraham or Mark Levin if you really want to open your eyes. There are plenty of opportunities to find opposing viewpoints and if you're truly interested, it's easily obtainable. Turn on a radio. Turn the dial from whatever news channel you're currently watching and don't turn back for 3 weeks.

If you're looking for civility and a worthwhile exchange of ideas on the P&R board, feel free to take that step and contribute -- add to the discussion, be informative, present your ideas and do so in the manner in which you wish to be treated. You say you're not happy with the discourse but there's going to be brain-dead commentary on any board. You happen to pick a subject people are passionate about so it's not quite honorable to then attack those who display that passion, eloquently or not. You're throwing blood in the water and then blaming the sharks. Even you said you love to instigate to see what kind of responses you get. So I'm asking, what's your point in all this? If you don't want the silly dogma-filled responses, don't tweak people into giving them. Don't talk about Obama on a Porn Stars board unless he's enacted legislation specific to the hobby or he's someone you'd want to do a threesome with. You attacked the P&R board and when asked if you had suggestions to make it better, you had nothing to offer. So what are you bringing to these discussions other than fuel? And is the P&R board of TheEroticReview.com really the place you plan to uncover news stories and perspective you're not seeing in your current frame of reference? There's a big world of info out there and you're free to explore it. You should first have an honest understanding of what it is you're trying to learn before getting the rest of us involved.

Perhaps you're right and I shouldn't have posted the Obama/Letterman thread on this board.  To be honest, I never expected it to get the amount of replies it did, positive or negative. And you're right.  Obama's appearance on Letterman is part of a media blitz to garner support for his, as you said, "failing" health care agenda.  But why is it failing?  It's failing because the conservative right, in bed with the health-care lobby, has made it their number one priority to defeat it, just like they did during the Clinton administration.  But that's a topic for another discussion (on the P&R board).

Getting back to your post, don't assume that I get all of my information from MSNBC.  I do watch Fox News on a regular basis and I listen to Limbaugh a few times a week and occasionally Hannity as well, whenever I'm in my car when they're on. I also watch CNN, but I get most of my news from BBC America and PBS's Lehrer Hour, two programs that actually are fair and balanced.

I also read... I find Fareed Zakaria to be one of the most insightful political authors of our day, and he addresses issues rather than party politics.  His "The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad" is a must-read for anyone who wants to understand the Middle-Eastern mind, and his "Post American World" is an honest assessment of America's role in the near future.  Both books should be a must read for anyone, liberal and conservative alike, interested in this country's future.  

I'm currently reading Dennis Ross's "Statecraft And How to Resotre America's Standing in the World".  I also read the 9/11 Comission's report from front to back.  And just so you know that I don't only read "liberal minded" books that will support my personal philosophies, I've also read Hannity's "Let Freedom Ring: Winning the War of Liberty over Liberalism" and Michael Savage's "The Enemy Within: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Schools, Faith, and Military"  Which ones do you think I felt were crap? lol.  But at least I read and try to understand the conservative point of view. Do I read Ann Coulter?  No, I wouldn't do anything to put one red cent in her pocket.  As Phil Collins said "If she were drowning, I would not lend a hand".  She, along with Limbaugh and Beck are what's wrong with conservative politics in America today.

Also, there are conservative commentators that I admire and respect... Joe Scarborough, George Will, the late William F. Buckley are all intelligent, well spoken conservatives who don't use fear and loathing as a tactic to arouse the masses.  Scarborough's "The Last Best Hope: Restoring Conservatism and America's Promise" should be sent to every conservative policy maker in Washington.

Someone once said "If you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart... if you're not a conservative when you're old, you have no brain".  Well, maybe I have half a brain.  I believe in fiscal conservatism... I believe in the death penalty.  So I'm not a bleeding heart liberal. I also believe in a woman's right to do as she pleases with her body.  So if she wants to sell sex with it, more power to her, and I assume since this is TER that most people would agree with that philosophy. But you can't be selective about it; if you believe a woman should be able to fuck for money, you should also support her right to have an abortion.

But when people on the P&R board proclaim George Bush a GREAT PRESIENT, I have to shake my head in wonder. By what criteria can anyone truly justify that statement? His foreign policy was a disaster, his domestic policy was a joke.  This man took more vacations than any President in American history. I came across an internet site (who's url escapes me) that posted over 17 impeachable acts perpetrated by the Bush administration.

And that's the one thing I will admit.  Conservatives are smarter than liberals. When they realized that Clinton was the most popular President since Kennedy, they went after him like a hungry dog goes after a steak. They impeached the guy for getting a blowjob.  Liberals have no balls... they NEED the equivilents of Coulter, Limbaugh and Beck in order to further their agenda.  The closest thing the liberals have/had is Al Franken.  Check out YouTube and you'll find some debates between Franken and Coulter... he just tears her apart.  She didn't have a chance.  And his books point out the hypocricy of O'Reilly and Coulter and Gingrich, supported by witnesses and LEGITIMATE footnotes (Unlike Coulter's, which were proven to be made-up).

So I will be taking civility and social discourse to the Politics and Religion board and I look forward to exchanging ideas with you.    

-- Modified on 9/23/2009 2:04:29 AM

I just find it funny that people call Bush even a decent president, really he just absolutely sucked and thats being really nice. The rest of what you guys talk about is really fun to read, keep at it

Have any points to disagree.  If a woman has the right to sell sex it is a stretch to say it's ok to have an abortion.  i believe in abortion but it is a big difference at least to me regarding partial birth abortion.  I have seen one and when the pull the baby out alive while its arms and legs moving and shoot it in the back of the head is far different than selling some ass.  I do believe in abortion even though i believe partial-birth abortion is murder (I think people have the right to murder in self-defense and other areas).  But that is a bit of a stretch.  What about all the liberals that want abortion but throw paint on people for wearing fur coats-Now I would murder someone if they did that to me.  Also Clinto was not the most popular-I would say it was probably Reagan whether you agree with him or not.  I was too you to really know at that time.  Remember, I know Clinto was in a 3 way race but he never came close to 50% vote. Clinton really became popular during the impeachment.  Al Franken, Kieth Oberman and others are whats wrong with liberal politics in America.  Conservatives hated Clinton and hate Obama for the same reason liberals hate Reagan and other conservative-this unfortunately is the way the political game is played now a days by both sides.  But please don't tell me that the left does not also do it to the right as well (I know you have not stated this just bringing up the point). The worst commens I have ever heard come from liberals that feel safe and make the most racist or ridiculous statements but they don't seem to get a lot of press (I have millions of examples but that is for another time).

Sorry Eddie, but when the Democrats have the House, Senate, and Presidency what is stopping them from passing Healthcare reform? We the People.  People aren't happy with the plan and both Congressmen and Senators are afraid they are not going to get reelected. When I watch people stand up to a party that controls all of the government and tell them that this is not what they want, and the party actually listens, it makes me believe that our system actually works.

If these Senators and Congressmen really believed in their healthcare reform and it's importance, they should pass it regardless of the consequences. If not, then they either care more about being reelected than the welfare of the People, or, they really don't believe in the plan's necessity and were just trying to push an agenda.

Hey, if the Republicans were in the same situation I am sure they would do the exact same thing. But lets call a Spade a Spade.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think a lot of it stems from the Health Care Lobby and the right wing combining to scare Americans into believing that Health Care reform is a bad thing.  Like Palin with her Death Panels, etc.  

But I don't blame the politicians, who are only doing what politicians do.  I blame the American public itself for listening to people with hidden agendas who are only concerned with their own self-interests.  If Americans would take even a little time or effort to become truly informed, (and by that I don't mean listening to Fox News OR MSNBC), then we might just get the type of government we all want.  But in a nation where not even half the people vote in national elections, you get what you deserve.

George Carlin was once critisized for not voting and yet pontificating on our government.  His reply was that the very fact that he DIDN'T vote gave him the right to critisize our government.  He said that by voting we got exactly what we deserved.  I'm not sure if I agree with him, but he did have a point.

In truth, the true evil in our government isn't left-wing democrats or right-wing republicans.  It's the lobbies that represent special interests that go against what's good for this country.

It's really not a stretch from a woman selling her body for sex and her right to an abortion.  You either believe that a person's body is theirs and they have a right to do with it what they want, or you don't... there can be no middle ground.  That extends to euthenasia and assisted suicide as well.  Why should anyone have the right to tell us we can't terminate our own lives if we choose to?  You can't stop me from putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger, but if I'm a paraplegic and can't put the gun to my head, I should have other avenues open to me to achieve the same end result.

As for third-term abortions, I agree that it should be used only in extreme measures, for instance to save the life of the mother.  Even as a life-long liberal and a supporter of Roe vs. Wade, I would have no problem seeing some kind of limits placed on third-term abortions.  Once a fetus is able to live outside the mother's body, I believe it's a viable human being and deserves all of the rights inherent thereof.

As for Al Franken and Keith Olberman, Olberman's a clown in the same vein that Glenn Beck is a clown, but his vitriole is directed at Fox and people like Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh... he's a left wing reactionary whose only function is to attack the absurd rantings of the right.  He's harmless.  Franken, on the other hand, is a well informed, intelligent spokesperson for the liberal left.  His books are all dead on point, and he backs up his observations with REAL facts.  Nothing in his book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" can be refuted.  But if you want to trade, I'll admit that Franken is wrong for liberals if you admit that Limbaugh, Coulter and Beck are wrong for conservatives.

And we haven't even touched on Michael Moore... lol.


-- Modified on 9/23/2009 7:36:31 AM

On this we definitely agree. Regardless of whether you lean right or left, special interests on both extremes dictate policy and most people are too naive to see it.

is...where the hell were these "celebrities" a year ago when no one gave a crap about healthcare. All of a sudden, I have to watch cheap youtube video after another of all these, mostly c list, celebrities telling me I'm evil if I'm not in favor of it. I have a question, where the hell where all of these people 10 years ago when hillary was spouting out healthcare reform as 1st lady? I'll tell you where...nowhere; why...cause nobody gave a fuck about healthcare reform when it was coming out of the mouth of Hillary. Not one celebrity cared about healthcare reform until Obama told them they were supposed to care. And Obama only began to care when Hillary was beating him in the democratic primary because of universal healthcare.