I just finished watching the Primetime episode and thought it was done pretty well.  One of the main themes they were trying to portray was the exploitation of the young ladies who enter the industry.  I don't think it is going to change anybody's opinion on porn because people tend to see what they want to see when watching this type of piece.  I am curious to hear everybody's thoughts on the show.

I would also like to say that Bella is an absolute sweetheart.  I have had the pleasure of meeting her and found her very personable and a girl you would love to just hang out with.

Well, the one thing I gained from the show was the fact that Porn isn't going away... with the dollars it now generates, and the corporate involvement, it's bigger than Disney!  The one laugh I got was the comparison to the NFL in terms of the amount of money it generated... The ABC producers failed to take into account the 100 billion or so generated by gambling on pro football....

While I thought the show was fairly straight forward in what it was about, it did focus on the "lowest common denominator" in the adult industry, the nastiest of the gonzo product... but that's what gets the ratings, I suppose... I mean, what kind of an "expose" would it be if it concentrated on the Vivid's and Wicked Pictures's kind of porn...

A couple of specific observations.... What was Jim South, Patrick Collins and Jonathan Morgan thinking??? Are they of the opinion that any publicity is good publicity?  I don't care how mainstream porn is becoming, isn't it common sense to keep as low a profile as possible?  Obviously they're not as smart as GM or Marriott.

Also, Randy West looked to be about 70 years old.  Ona Zee is looking her age as well.  

I'm also curious to hear what people thought about Bill Marigold's comments....

I just think it's interesting how they feel sorry for these girls but the reality is that it's all about the money. Most of these women line up to be in a porn. No one forces them. I'm obviously not talking about the ones who were forced, tricked or molested, have no choice or something. Excluding them,  again, many of these women can't wait to be in a porn movie. It's also interesting how Mr. Koop says people who watch these movies despise these women. I don't despise them. A little envious of their earnings maybe. (smile)

The only thing i can agree with is why the hell aren't they regulating this industry for aids and other diseases. That is baffling!!!!! As far as the girls getting a bigger cut of the profits, well maybe they should. Bottomeline, people want to see porn period. This industry would not be so big if people didn't want to see it. They get paid a lot of money just to have sex. Now they starting to have the freedom to pick who they want. People, their getting paid to do this!!! What a life.

Speaking of the NFL and gambling; they are f-ing hypocrites!  They have banned any type of Las Vegas tourism advertising during the Superbowl because they don't want to be associated with gambling.

Oh by the way, Randy West is 70 years old. LOL

...as alluded to in a post below.  While many other shows about the porn industry have themselves been no more than cheap exploitation, this piece raised some interesting and important issues.

I also found the statement that entering other occupations can be "...a stepping stone to future" while entering porn is "..the tombstone to the future" to be rather profound.

-- Modified on 1/23/2003 11:10:41 PM

A fine piece of journalism. A really straightforward piece on the blindness of some who are willing to pay so high a price for fame.

Another profound gem. "Anyone who thinks of themselves as priceless should not become work in the sex industry..."  It makes one think...WOW!

Happy hunting...DP

-- Modified on 1/23/2003 11:22:25 PM

saw it...and found it to be as exploitive and titilating as porn itself...and pooooor bella....look...no one held a gun to her head...she could get a job as a secretary...and falling in love with nacho?!!!!....puleaze...the dude is a skank....i do feel that the porn industry should police itself better when it comes to the health issues...and they should raise their labor standards....last thing they want is for this congress to start hearings...with the current conservatives in office...who will do anything to take the countrys mind off the economy...the industry could be due for a world of hurt

well Eddie and others. I work in the adult world and do kinda agree with bill. If you go into porn with blinders your gonig to get fucked up some how. But to go with that i also say no one holds a gun to these girls heads or do they force them to do anything. The majority of these girls will never be Oscar winners so if they want fame this is it. And we all know  since we are on the PORNSTAR  DISCUSSION BOARD that being a PS pays then more then being a reugular stripper or escort except in rare instances. Bella donna said it her self she is the major bread winner in her family and this is a very common instance. I know of many woman in this position where there also helping there family of fuck ups. I also have worked with some of the best business women i have ever seen in this business and they started out as shy lil girls.
So all and all i think this was a pretty mild  ding on the porn industry so to speak. And yes there all right we do need to police ourselves better when it comes to condoms and so forth . But to do that fans also need to be more accepting of  condom movies cause i cant even sell one to anyone but 3 or 4 companys and thats a very slim market to hope to sell your  work to. So guys  stay safe and have fun and also lets not  post anything to give congrees and the conservative idiots any ideas.

Didn't that show have a fairy tale ending (at least the Belladonna portion)?  Young girl rides the up and downs of a very tough industry right to the top.  In the end, her mother turns around, her friend from Utah goes into porn, ABC admits Bella's making over 100 grand a year. I'll betcha the most disappointed person at AVN (when Belladonna won all those AVN awards) was Diane Sawyer, since I really don't think it was supposed to end like that.

As for the more important issues raised, they are going to have a really tough time regulating a first amendment protected business.  One thing I do hope is that when they hold those hearings, the morality of 18 year olds being old enough to fight wars is also discussed.

One last thing, since ABC has no shame (putting down other companies for making a profit on porn and then running a ratings grabber like that) My club Stevi Secret's Nude Cabaret in Phoenix is the only club in the USA where you would have seen Belladonna as a feature dancer (We had her twice in August and October).  We get a lot of real up and cummers.  This week we have Layla Jade.  If you know anybody in Phoenix or are heading our way in the future, please support the club.  You can see future schedule at the link.

Until I saw the show, I had similar concerns for the future of the porn industry... but after learning the dollars it generates, and who's generating and pocketing those dollars, I think we have nothing to worry about...  It's just too big, and too interlinked with the Fortune 500 to have much damage done to it.

I do agree that there should be better self-policing, but truthfully, what industry left to self-examination has ever done so in a straight forward and honest manner... The AMA?  The Airline Industry?  The drug companies?  It just doesn't happen... When the watchdogs are the same people who hold the purse strings, what can you expect.

Unfortunately, most people see the porn industry the same way they see escorts... They only know what they hear from the media, and the media usually goes for sensationalism... so prostitutes are all seen as drug addled women who hate men, hate themselves, and come from a shattered home life... they see only the story of the street hooker, and extrapolate that to include all working girls... I'd bet that if you asked the average person, they'd say that escorts don't kiss.  And if you told them that some escorts are passionate, vocal and highly skilled at making a man feel good, they'd think you were crazy.

The same can be said of the porn industry... when stories are told, it's always a tragic tale like Shauna Grant's that get attention, and it's always the extremes of the porn industry like Rob Black's kind of videos that get the focus.  It's easier for people to think that all pornstars hate what they're doing and are exploited...  But for every Bella Donna out there, there are others who have used the industry to create a lucrative feature dance career, or a profitable website, etc. who knew exactly what they were doing and what they were getting into... I'm not saying that the industry doesn't take advantage of naive young women, but so does hollywood, madison ave., and virtually any business that uses sex to sell or enhance their product.

On an unrelated note... what a pompous ass Koop was in his statement that those who watch porn despise the people who appear in it....

-- Modified on 1/24/2003 1:10:02 AM

If Koop's statement were true, we wouldn't have this board set up to discuss the film stars that we admire.  Heck, some "civilians" have married porn stars & live a happy life (Keisha's husband comes to mind) & some of us wish we could marry our favorite star.  What a schmuck!!

most of the ladies that are posting here, or the agencies for that matter, aren't being expolited by the porn industry, not based on the rates that I see being advertised.

If anything, all the bitching that goes on here about rates, would indicate that we the clients are the ones being exploited ( : but that's a whole other issue.

To suggest that porn isn't destructive to some that choose freely to engage in film work, is silly. But then so are many other walks of life. If I am going to see a porn actress(I have seen one) as a client, I want a lady who has worked or is working sucessfully and happily in the field of adult entertainment. Not some coked out skank looking to make next month's rent money. MfSD.

-- Modified on 1/24/2003 10:21:23 AM

Of course this goes without saying,,,,,,,,this is my opinion.

In any show, about any subject, it is impossible to cover all aspects, pertaining to all of the factors that shape the subject matter.

I have been involved in more TV shows than just about any other PS. Major networks have a formula for their shows; be it a show such as the one last night, or a made for TV movie.

There must be a person who is a victim, therefore there has to be a "bad" guy, and there must be a happy ending.  The show last night had all three, once again.

The people who run the networks believe that the viewing audience's are unable to actually understand a "real" story, with just information, so they tailor everything into their idea of what America is able to understand, and what they think "we" want. Networks love to paint everything either black or white, even though we all know there is no such thing.

If any of you thought that ABC would actually present "itself" as condoning the industry, you really do not understand the implications.  I can see it now, thousands of religious zealots picketing outside the ABC offices in NYC.  A call to arms to boycott the ABC network etc., etc. This country was settled by the Puritans, and it will always be "correct" to condemn anything that has anything to do with the Adult Industry.  Remember, sex is "dirty" ,this was drumed into your heads from an early age.

The problem with this country is that it is OK to speak out against the industry, individuals are "looked up to" who do, why, because it is the "right" way to live.  The "religious right" will never be condemned, be it over this or abortion, because it is "right".

Who is to blame, you are.  Why, because "you" are afraid to speak out in public.  You might buy adult tapes, rent them, view them in hotel rooms, you might even see escorts, but you WON'T speak out for the industry.

Most people who do partake of this industry are afraid of what their neighbors would think of them, their co-workers, their families, yes even their ministers.  So until "you" have the balls to stand up for your beliefs, in a public forum, don't expect to see a change in how this industry is portrayed.

Saying all of the above, I will say that parts of the show were right on the money, and some of it was crap.  I didn't see much information on the testing that is done , in the industry, for the performers, I think since the subject was brought up, there should have been more with Sharon Mitchell.

This industry does have scumbags, who want nothing more than a young dumb girl, who they can mold or force into doing things. While shooting my 2 part movie, NAKED SCANDAL, THE KATHY WILLETS STORY, I was asked to overlook the fact that one of the male performers AID'S test was "only" one day expired.  I of course told them to go to hell, and the male performer was removed fom the set. But it is no different than the Strip Club owners, and even the owners of escort angencies, even the "big" ones.  Not to long ago someone told me that the "owner" of a very large agency, liked to have "new young" PS's, as they are more easy to work with, they don't ask questions.  When the phone rings in their hotel room at 3AM, they jump, and ask how high?

Jonathan Morgan is an idiot, if he thinks he reprensented the industry in a favorable light, the same for Patrick Collins, what a complete jackass for allowing ABC to film that.  Now he has no control over their editing , he does , or should know what his actors are going to do, and close the set.

The other problem is this; "you" the consumer are driving the market, the companies all are trying to make more and more money, after Gonzo arrived, the companies found out that instead of paying for a big budget "feature", they could sell just as many "cheap" Gonzo tapes, it was a no brainer.  Now that everyone is making Gonzo, how do you "standout" in the crowd.

You do it by pushing the limits, the limits wouldn't be there if "you" weren't buying it.The only way this industry will change back to making qualtiy videos, with the occassional line of Gonzo tapes, is for the industry to bite the bullet so to speak, and lose profits for 6 months or so.  If this industry wants to be assured of not having any problems with the Government, they need to go back to features.  The industry will eventually make their money from "you" the consumer, because "you" the consumer will always buy Adult Tapes.

As fasteddie said, most business's who regulate themselves, don't do what's best for the consumer, they do what's best for them.  If there is  a way to make a quick buck, they will, and it's the American way of doing business.

I think Jim South represented himself well, , as did Ona Zee.  Dr. Coop, needs brain surgery.

To end this rather long venting , yes the industry has scumbags working in it , who are complete losers, be it the girls or the producers.  If they had any real talent. (producers) they would be working in the straight world.  It's a good old boys club in some aspects, fun, dirty, sneaky,wild , crazy, and the worst adjective of all, let's see how we can exploit someone for money.  Not all of the producers think this way, so I guess we just have to take the bad with the good. One more thing, the ladies in this industry, must take responsibility for their actions, and have guidlines and limitations, no matter how much money is thrown at them.  Kathy Willets

-- Modified on 1/24/2003 12:25:49 PM

-- Modified on 1/24/2003 8:40:24 PM

-- Modified on 1/25/2003 8:20:34 AM

This is not a story about porn, this is the story of many women who voluntarily and consciously enter into a relationship with a bad boy  jerk rather than a stable nice guy and then expect the world to feel sorry for them when they get hurt.  

Perhaps more media effort needs to be placed on people who unwillingly become victims.

I'll reply here. I read the article, but didn't see the show, it's kind of old hat for me, in all senses of the word.

I'm at the airport reading US this week and a blurb discusses Gina Lynn and Eminem, and they're plugging HER latest video.

I have discussed condom usage below, in the last 3 weeks or so.

Not a big fan of Bill Margold. Just another pimp and thief if you ask me.

sorry stevie...but bella donna doesnt belong in porn...shes on the shauna grant road....next time u speak with her...u mignt suggest that she start therapy...pronto...to admit on camera, that u are/were thinking about suicide...is troubling...no matter how much love she may get from the industry or fans...it wont combat those feelings...now about the gov attacking a protected industry...that never stopped the reagan administration, or broward county, or any other number of jurisdictions....obscenity is not protected speech...and if these conservatives deem something to be obscene...they will go after it...and koop is an old dickhead...i dont despise anyone i watch (well maybe ron jeremy) in fact if i could spend just a couple of moments to spend some time with the actors...that would be a total rush....good luck on your club...

I like threads and discussions like this.  Someone long ago posted a link to a discussion on some christian board and they were arguing over the acceptability of escorting, and it was fascinating.

Anyway, you can go online and read the rest of the "story" regarding belladonna.  Needless to say, not good, as the engagement breaks off (never saw that coming), and mom quits being her assistant or manager or whatever and returns to utah.

Anyway, to throw in my 2 cents:

The majority of guys doing the talent hiring are scumbags.  They lie to get girls to do things they wouldn't ordinarily do - I thought the show was pretty accurate with that.

Keep in mind that just about everyone who peruses this board sees the "good" side of the industry - the women who are in control and clearly work in the industry because they choose to and enjoy it.  I imagine the vast majority of the girls are pretty much like belladonna - screwed up somehow, and think $100k is a lot of money.  They don't seem to recognize that it will only last for a few years (if they're lucky), and when they spend it as fast as they make it, they're going to be out on the streets with little to fall back on.  You can say that the guys are exploiting her, but if it's not the porn industry taking advantage of her naivety, then it'll be something else - an abusive boyfriend, drugs, etc.  When she says she got $1600 for that prison gangbang scene like she hit the lottery, you know something's not right with her....

This industry will not regulate itself any time soon.  No industry has before, why would porn be any different?

Anyway, I think the pornstars who "make it", are in control of themselves, and we know and love on this board are few and far between.  I gather the vast majority really don't enter the biz knowing the full consequences of doing so.  And I don't suspect this will change any time soon, unless the consumption habits change.  And as porn becomes more mainstream and accepted, the demand will only grow, and consumers of porn overwhelmingly demand the youngest and freshest....

Actually, there's an interesting article on Luke Ford about the Primetime broadcast, and how it went from initially being conceived as a non-judgemental piece on the "making of a pornstar" to an anti-porn crusade driven by Diane Sawyer.

This information was supplied by an ABC employee who worked on the project for the two years that it took to complete.  It was also pointed out that the interview with Bella where she cried and told about her thoughts of suicide occured very shortly after she got into the business, with no follow up interview done later on or near the end of the two year project... and the observation was made, and I believe it to be a good one, that when Bella arrived in LA she was already a bleached blonde with several massive tattoos - She wasn't the sweet, innocent and naive Morman girl that Primetime would have us believe her to have been...
So she might be fucked up, but it wasn't the porn industry that made her that way... And did you notice the large tattoo on Bella's sister's chest?  My guess is that the family was fairly disfunctional to begin with...  

And Mom... now there's a piece of work... first she tells us how much she hates the big corporations for what they did to her little girl, and next thing she's trying to gloom onto her daughter as her roadie!  

-- Modified on 1/24/2003 9:49:35 PM

How does one define success? Would you call Belladona a success? The show reported she’d made $ 100k per year, for say three years. That sounds good for an 18-21 year old. Assume she has a longer than average career (18 months was reported  by Ms Sawyer) and earns $ 600,000 for her career of 5 years. Perhaps she pays no tax as a result of filming overseas? How far can that be expected to last a 24 year old even if she were to have all of it left at that time?

Assuming she can earn 5% pre-tax, tax is 15%, inflation is 2% and she can live on inflation-adjusted $ 40,000 per year, Belladona’s retirement fund would run out at the ‘ripe age’ of fifty (50 !!!!!).

Since primetime reported she's a major breadwinner for more family than herself, that $ 40 has to stretch even farther.

100K or even 50k is a lot to play with if you look to do some investing with that money. Hell 20 or 30k you can buy some serious bonds and have your money grow for you. Most people don't have the extra cash to do play with but she certainly does.