I was having a conversation with a coworker who is gay.  He maintained that it's safer to swallow than spit.  Now, I've researched the information re: oral sex and HIV, and I'm aware that barring bleeding gums, sores in the mouth, etc., bbbj's are considered safe.  His contention (and he claims it to be common knowledge within the gay community), that the chemistry of the stomach kills the HIV virus (enzymes or some other shit), while spitting opens up the possibility of getting semen into chapped and split lips, cold sores, shaving nicks on the area around the mouth (although hopefully that's not something a pornstar should have to worry about), etc.

My co-worker is pretty well read on the subject (as a matter of self-preservation), and was very adament in his conviction...

Any thoughts???

I tend to avoid these types of discussions since I think most posts are just opinions of people who aren't really qualified
in the field.

In this case, it's pretty easy see debunk this since it defies common sense and logic.  

How many BBBJs have you gotten that didn't include at least
some semen coming out of a providers mouth and getting into
the areas around the mouth that you mentioned?  The only
difference between swallowing and spitting in these cases is
the fact that semen goes into the stomach.

If we take these cases (let's call them sloppy BBBJs or
SBBBJs), and assume everything your co-worker say is correct,
the risks between the two are no different.

Notice the above argument ASSUMES everything you co-worker
says is correct.  The addtional factor I've added is the
inherent sloppiness of a BBBJ and coming from experience that is a pretty big factor.

The stomach acid kills the hiv virus? I don't believe that for a second. If they found something that kills the HIV virus, we'd have a cure for AIDS by now....and don't even start with any of that government conspiracy crap.

While it is never a good idea to have semen in your mouth regardless of whether you spit or swallow, I would say fasteddie51 that your coworker is ignorant and doesn't know what he is talking about.  Since he is not qualified in this field, I would dismiss anything he has to say on this.

Stomach acid would easily kill the HIV virus. I remember when HIV first came to the public awareness. Linus Pauli, inventor of the polio vaccine, proved that the HIV virus died in a test tube of orange juice. Stomach acid is much more acidic than citric acid.

Actually, the problem has never been how to kill the AIDS virus, but how to kill it without killing the surrounding cells.

Exactly true. There is no way to seperate the HIV virus from blood cells hence you can not treat the virus. There are many things that can kill the virus once it is seperated from a living creature. Thing is that the treatment would 100% kill the creature as well. Bleach kills the virus but you wouldnt want bleach in your blood would you

Well, you're not totally correct.  It's been accepted by the majority of the mediclal community that there is an element of saliva that neutralizes the HIV virus... Many of the current studies are focusing on isolating that component  There isn't a documented case of the transmission of the HIV virus through oral sex, as long as there were no other extenuating conditions (bleeding gums, leisions, etc.)

This may cause some controversy, but a lot of the information about HIV and AIDS is misleading or less than candid, and being spread by groups with agendas.  The govenrment has their own reasons for maintaining a lot of the myths about HIV, and the CDC and NCI constantly fight over jurisdiction...  Research facilities have a vested interest in making things seem worse then they are... they're looking for funding, and of course the media is always looking for the BIG story, and scaring the public always increases ratings.

There is a TON of information on the net, much of it by organizations without axes to grind or self-interests to worry about, and if you spend some time investigating, you might be surprised at what you find.  The HIV virus isn't particularly easy to contract, and the primary way of transmission BY FAR is blood to blood.   All other methods of transmission are much less efficient.  Other STD's like Hepatitis are MUCH more easily transmitted through saliva and semen.

Don't take this as an endorsement of bbfs... it's still a crap shoot.  I'm just trying to present the othr side of the coin.

This is very true. Theres is nothing that can survive being exposed to the acid in the stomach. There was a segment on the discovery channel about how powerful stomach acid is and it was shown that if you take a half a cup of stomach acid and pour it onto a thick wooden floor it will eat thru the wood and the beam below it within a few minutes. Just think how strong the stomach lining has to be to withstand the acid. This is why an ulcer if not taken care of in time poses a great risk to the person with the ulcer because if the acid makes it out of the stomach it will burn thru everything in the body rather quickly.

Stomach acid is not foolproof. The pathogen that causes ulcers, Helicobacter pylori, thrives in the low pH stomach acid environment. Furthermore, any pathogen that manages to survive the acid bath to make it to the stomach lining and its protective mucous layer has a chance at breaking into the bloodstream. Besides, the entire mucosa of the mouth, larynx, and esophagus are acid-free.

That being said, the CDC states the risk of becoming HIV-infected from oral sex are very much smaller than from regular or anal sex. Out of the approximately 1 million infected individuals in the US, only a dozen or so were infected through oral sex (defined as fellatio, cunnilingus, and/or analingus).

The safest sexual activity is abstinence. If you partake in this hobby, either as a provider or as a hobbyest, you have already consciously decided to play the odds.

What are the odds? The last census showed there are approximately 300 million individuals in the U.S. So, at random, your chances of encountering an infected individual is 0.3%. If you have oral sex with that individual, the CDC statistics show you have a 0.002% chance of being infected from that one activity. So your overall risk is 0.0006%. You are much more likely to die in a car crash than through an HIV infection from oral sex.

Really?  All this is news to me!  I'm not dismissing what you have to say, but I am always wary of anything that sounds like a conspiracy theory.

Even if what you say is true, I'm not taking any chances, since there is no documented proof that there is a certain element of saliva that neutralizeds the HIV virus.

I was with a provider a couple of weeks ago who allowed me to CIM.  She got up, took a swig of water and swallowed everything. When I expressed my surprise at her willingness to swallow... she told me she believed it completely rude to spit!  Gotta love it!!!

Quite a while ago in a thread on either the Los Angeles board or the General board a poster who claimed to be working on the cutting edge of aids research claimed that it was more dangerous to spit out the semen than swallow it.  

It has been common knowledge for some time that human saliva will kill the aids virus in a relatively short period of time. However if somebody has bleeding gums, minute cuts, etc the aids virus may get into that person's system before the saliva kills it.  If the aids virus could live in human saliva for any length of time we would have people being infected by DFK where no intercourse or oral sex took place.  To my knowledge there has never been any documented cases where somebody caught aids from kissing unless one or both of the partners had bleeding gums or something like it.

I have had a few very long drawn out conversations with my personal DR. and also one of the DR's that set up the adult industry testing standards.

According to my doctor being a male i have about as much chance of getting hit in the head by a metor. As to getting HIV via oral sex. From what he said off the record being that Im a staight male i could basically have oral with an infected woman if i didn't have asplit lip or gingervitas and probably be safe in the end. This obviously isn't advised. But on the other hand females or gay males are recepticals so to speak. So there chances are 100's of times higher then a straight male.

From what the DR whom i talked to at a dinner party about it with who helped set up the adult testing said. That from oral you would basically have to have a freshly open wound. Even a wound thats been healing for a few hours or even few days has a membrain over it thats going to pertect it too a point. So from what i have found out is its very hard to get HIV from oral.

Its really the other STD's you have to worry about catching orally. Like herpes or clamidia. Or for that matter with intercourse.

So i personally dont worry about HIV i worry about the simpler to get STD's such as herpes . This is the one thats infecting unknown people. Remember herpes is there forever.....

J. SALK invented the Polio and he has a lad in San Diego that he hepled design.

I think the logic might carry if the sperm was magically transported from the mouth to the stomach.

Let's all face facts, there are only two types of safe sex. Self sex and having only one partner (assuming of course they only have one partner too). After that it's only varying dergrees of risk.

And for my one partner I pick Samantha Steryling..

i never understood why some men (most men?) get off on having the girl "swallow their pride" (btw, isn't that the name of a RLD vid series?) i'd rather do a facial (better for her skin and better visuals for me) ...  it must be a psych-boost of some kind, "she wanted my essence so bad she swallowed every last drop" -- yeah, right, uh-huh

this was discussed on the National board once. not sure if there was a concensus. suffice it to say i found out that there are other men out there who like me get no boost from having the girl swallow, eventhough as it was mentioned here, it's more likely safer than gargling splooge and spitting it back out


on a minor (nerdly) note, the chances of a male receiving BBBJ being HIV-infected by the FEMALE administering it are more like the chances of being hit by lightning not a meteor ...  you can NEVER be hit in the head by a meteor unless you're in near-Earth orbit. on Earth proper you will be hit in the head by a meteorite, not a meteor!  

No I did not do a review... she does not have a website so the TER won't accept it.  Too bad... lots of good providers out there that never get reviewed all because of this silly rule... lots of good info to be had... but not to be.

this same thing has bothered me from the get-go.  when i first joined TER i had about 5-6 nice (relatively exclusive) providers who i planned to review for the database.  after my first couple were rejected (i hadn't yet read the rules) i simply gave up

but i do see now that it's not an entirely silly rule, since without a website presence (as meager as it may be) the possibilities for mischief become too hard to resist for corrupt players

What bugs me more is that if the website uses php and dynamic html, it's often hard to link to the girl's specific page when you write a review, so it gets disapproved.

I've had several reviews rejected because I could only link to the agency's home page... now on their home page the girl is clearly listed, but still it get's rejected...

Dumb!

I agree with Singleton in that I don't understand the attraction of swallowing.  BUT, I will never quibble with another persons fetish, since I enjoy participation in what might be termed deviant sex (only with women) by most of the population.  

That being said, I have real issues seeing a provider that continually has CIM in her reviews.  While you can never be 100% safe, being discriminating certainly puts more odds on your side.

Below are a few websites that deal with Aids/HIV prevention:

http://www.caps.ucsf.edu/capsweb/index.html
http://www.avert.org/
http://www.thebody.com/

I hope these are helpful to you.

A long and healthy life leads to long and happy hobby mileage!

RP  

One last thing: Don't brush your teeth within and hour or two of the appointment.  It cuts your gums sometimes.  Chew dental gum and/or gargle to make sure your breath is fresh for that special lady.

http://www.thebody.com/asp/may98/oral.html

ReUDE-SALK

Actually, neither "Linus Pauling" nor "Jonas Salk" ever demonstrated that strongly acidic pH inactivated the AIDS virus in the peer-reviewed literature.

Dr. Salk, along with Dennis Carlo an ex-corporate officer from Hybritech, did found a company called Immune Response in the late-80's. The theoretical basis of their therapeutic intervention focussed on immunizing HIV-infected individuals with "inactivated" HIV. The virologists at Immune Response may have used acidic pH, along with other chemical procedures, to inactivate HIV. However, the relevant publications on "killing" the AIDS virus would be earlier from the mid-80's, using a combination of high temperature, ethanol, acid pH and/or detergents.

-- Modified on 10/21/2003 11:58:56 AM

Well I thought I would post a few words up  here as I am a medical doctor. I do not have an absolute grasp of HIV transmission as I am a surgeon, but I can give you guys the basics. The question of whether or not it is safer to spit or swallow is pretty pointless. Both will carry virtually the same overall risk as the likelihood will not significantly decrease simply by spitting out the semen. Once a BBBJ is initiated there is a high likelihood of some semen entering the mouth and subsequently the GI tract. The act of having a bare penis in the mouth itself should be regarded as the risk factor and not the subsequent swalloiwng. In either case the likelihood of transmission is fairly low as long as either party does not have open sores. HIV has a hard time crossing into the blood stream from the GI tract as the GI tract is protected by cells and of course IgA. Swallowing, however, should not be thought of as completely insignificant since HIV + mothers are told they are not allowed to breast feed their newborns due to the increased risk of transmission.

As far as I understand saliva has no capability of "destroying" HIV. If it did we could easily centrifuge it, remove the water, and then inject it into the blood stream (no need to isolate this mysterios cure, just give everything minus H2O).

Also I am unware of whether or not acid can destroy the virus, but remember the esophagus can be a mode of transmission. What if the girl had an esophagitis (herptic, CMV, whatever) then she would have an ulceration and a susceptible spot. Also for the gay men who are reading what it you had an esophagitis or more commonly GERD (heartburn). Acid reflux would create ulcerations and increase your subsequent risk.

All of this may have been confusing, but bottom line is oral sex is statically a very low mode of transmission, but it does carry some risk. Spitting or not will not change the picture much at all. This advice was for your benefit, but do not make decisions based on it as I will not be held liable. Please talk to your primary care physician regarding your concerns!!

I think what we're seeing here is that there still is no certainty about the issue.  What we CAN conclude is that the risk of contracting HIV from oral sex is small, and some may say statistically insignificant, but one always has to weigh the risk vs. reward.  And keep in mind that most of the studies cited or referenced here speaks of the risk of the person giving the blowjob, not the one receiving it.  The risk of contracting HIV from giving head is small, but the risk of contracting it from receiving a bbbj is even smaller.

But there is a certain amount of risk in every aspect of this hobby... and we all have to be our own judge of what is and what isn't acceptable.

I'm single and not currently involved, so my acceptable risk level is (or should be) higher than someone who's married or has a "significant other", because I don't have to worry about passing anything on to a partner.  This doens't only mean HIV, but also much easier to contract STD's... Passing one of these on to a loved one obviously will do damage to a relationship, and I would guess in most cases end it.

So in the long run the best one can do is to read as much as one can on the subject, then make an INFORMED decision about what risks to take based on facts.

Strictly a personal opinion, but I think it feels better... When I tell a lady that I'm about to cum (and a gentleman always tells the lady beforehand) and she takes me as deep into her mouth as she can, the sensation is much more satisfying than any other finish.  And this includes taking it in the mouth and then spitting it out, because when swallowing, in most cases the provider takes you a lot deeper into her mouth.

So, at least for me, it's not a matter of "getting off"... I just think it feels better.

And let's be honest... pulling out for a facial is much more of a"getting off" kind of thing, it's also more of a "pornstar like"  thing, and a power trip for a lot of guys and for others simply a treat because that's probably the one activity (the facial) that a lot of wives and girlfriends just will not do.

But it all boils down to this... The WORST blowjob I ever had was still pretty damn good, that's the beauty of it!  So facial, hand finish, CIM then spit or swallow, they're all just fine by me.

i beg to differ, but also on a stritcly personal basis

i'm afraid my decades of jacking off to porn has left me with an impaired male orgasmic response, so much so that (almost) no woman can get me off with her mouth alone ... i always have to finish myself off "manually", by which point giving her a nice (visual) facial is the preferred mode of discharge --- not to get too graphic but i myself prefer her to kiss the family jewels while i do so

so sorry, but i do not know of this "sensation [which] is much more satisfying than any other finish" that you speak of ... but if you specifically know of any pornstars that excel in orally "finishing off" men like me (NQ or "non-quitters" as it were) i have pen and paper in hand