According to BHO, it is at least equally important for American children to learn Spanish as it is for all immigrants to learn English. All the while he cannot speak a foreign language.

For Americans to travel abroad and not be able to speak the “native” language is at worst slightly embarrassing or inconvenient.

For children in American schools to not be able to speak English and for many in positions of authority to at best not encourage and at worst discourage their learning English is just plain TRAGIC.

I’d be willing to bet that a greater variety of languages are spoken in the U.S. than anywhere else.

Actually, I CAN speak the preferred second language of hundreds of countries. So there.

hanging out with Rev Wrong all those years had to net him somethin....or maybe jack was right, he just sat there for 20 years so he could bang his old lady....

colossal fuck up week....Let's see, this week alone

1). McCain told a Pittsburgh news station that he used the names of some players on the Steel Curtain defense when he was interrogated in Vietnam....WRONG, in his book he names the Green Bay Packers as they team he used....On top of that, any sports fan knows the Steel Curtain d-fense didn't become famous til the late 70's (AFTER THE VIETNAM WAR!), so  strike one for the phony pandering senator from AZ...

2.)Many in the right wing media & the many partisan right wing hacks on THIS BOARD made a big deal out of the "bittergate" comments by Obama back in the winter....Well this week McCain's TOP economic advisor, Phil Gramm said Americans are just in a "mental recession" & the country is a nation of whiners....Yeah Phil, $4/gallon gas is just a fucking mirage, maybe this is like "The Matrix" where were just in the computer generated world, & in the real world (ie; The Matrix) gas is $2/gallon & the economy is booming....His comments are on tape to, so this will be wonderful fodder for political ads this fall....Strike Two

3.) Last, but certainly not least, McCain basically said the social security system is a disgrace.....Now that is BEAUTIFUL....I wonder how that will resonate with eldery voters in swing states like FL, MO, MI, etc. this fall when those comments hopefully are used again & again in ads as well...Strike three..

If Obama had a week like this, Hillary Clinton would be the Democratic nominee tommorow....Obama could have never survived the 3 monumental gaffes/fuck-ups that McBush had this week....But this is a media that still gives a pass to the conductor of the "Double Talk Express"...

McCain's campaign truly should have ended this week.....

-- Modified on 7/11/2008 6:31:39 PM

1) LOL, a gaffe based a 40 year old story is REALLY exciting. I guess you just proved he's old. BTW, you COULD have used a reliable source . . .

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/11/mccain-mixes-up-packers-and-steelers-in-pa-interview/

2) Phil Gramm is CORRECT. The Nanny state Liberal Dems AND Republicans have turned far too many Americans into a bunch of WHINERS. When they convert, (like Zombies) they turn into Dems, unless of course they already were Dems. Did you notice how BHO didn't address the issue and simply lied about it by saying that Gramm was denying that gas prices were high?

3) SS IS a disgrace. No embarrassment there. Probably not many vote pick ups either, but that's the difference between a statesman with honest statements and the platitudes of change without substance from BHO.

I don't know why I waste my time replying to you and your points, because either you can't or won't read them or you can't and definitely won't respond to the point "I" made. . . Specifically that BHO's embarrassing moment was NO GAFFE. It was a HUGELY EMBARASSING revelation of his policy intentions.

-- Modified on 7/11/2008 6:58:19 PM

but WTF, they're old. dad can hardly tie his shoes anymore..what's he know?

-- Modified on 7/11/2008 7:01:31 PM

how badly Team McCain fucked up this week, well your just partisan (and that's ok, I'm not being sarcastic) who sticks up for all things Republican....At least I admit when Obama does something wrong, & will disagree w/him on some issues (faith based initiatives, FISA)...Have you ever disagreed with a Republcian?....NO

"LOL, a gaffe based a 40 year old story is REALLY exciting"..

Bull, he clearly L-I-E-D to pander to PA voters - A SWING STATE, which he'll probably lose anyway..

There are certainly flaws in the SS system, but my point was how the Republicans have the nerve to paint Obama as some out of touch elitist from his bitter comments, when Gramm's comments were far more arrogant & far more elitist....Hypocrisy is the issue there...

between offending voters with the truth vs. arrogance. I see that it makes no difference to you, since all that matters to you is winning. Ethics, sanity and logic be damned.

BTW, at least I addressed your issues. As I predicted, you never touched the ones of my original post, LOL.

You claim I've never disagreed with Republicans! ! ! You don't pay much attention do ya?

We as citizens of this great nation is allowing the moronic News Media making us focus and discuss "Who said what to whom, when and where", all the while we as citizens permitting our leaders and politicians to fuck up this country beyond recognition.

The real problem facing us and our way life not being discussed by anyone. The media, party leadership and money men made us choose two  inexperienced candidates and the two that did not show any thorough understanding of any issues. We as citizens are responsible for what has happened to this country and what is going to happen to this country. We let administration after administration get without having coherent, rational and realistic energy plan while knowing our dependence on Middle-East oil is increasing. We let an administration squander away 1 trillion dollar budget surplus and let them turn that into a 3 trillion dollar deficit. The morons we sent Congress and Senate are even more worthless and we elect them over and over again, why?

We let China buy our Government bonds and treasury notes making us a lame duck country when it comes to global economic power. We went to war on lies and damn lies in Iraq. Believe it or not Saddam didn't have a fucking thing to do with 9/11. Neither candidate will be able to pull out of Iraq any time soon and when they say they will, they are telling you a bold faced lie.

I would like to hear Barack and John discuss about the real problems facing us as a nation;

Energy security- Without energy we are fucked and our way of life will vanish into thin air before you blink your eyes

Economic Revival - What and how are they going to revive this economy and become global economic power house

War - What are they going to making sure, we do not get into a misguided war on lies and deception. If any one in the private enterprise told as many lies, they would have been prosecuted and jailed.

Veterans - What the hell are the going to do to take care of the veterans they sent to war and their families?

Infrastructure - How, when and what are they going to do to fix our crumbling infrastructure that is rapidly approaching the state of under developed countries.

As Albert Eienstein once said "Doing the same things the same way and expecting a different result is the definition insanity".

Now who is insane, the politician or we, the citizens?

"or maybe jack was right, he just sat there for 20 years so he could bang his old lady...."

i dunno if Michelle is worth appx 15 years and 2 daughters, but plenty of guys would have done exactly that. with absolutely no shame either.

Actually, it is even more important that Europeans learn English.  The population of most Eupropean countries is not large enough to print many text books, which have small publications, in languages other than English.  Therefore, if you want to be a doctor, chemical engineer, or any one of scores of other professions in most of Europe the text books are written in English.  Even the French Pastuer Institute started publishing many of it articles only in English years ago.

It gets worse. If you want to go into interational trade and live in Germany, you have to learn English because that is what you will use when you talk to people in Japan, China, India, Italy, Norway, etc.

Years ago, a German and Chinese company entered into an agreement to produce cars in China.  All documents relating to the agreement were in English only.

Finally, most European universities are trying to attract students from other countries.  There is one common language that students from 50 countries will speak in France. English. That is why many classes that the French students are taking are taught in English.  So France can get students from other countries.

I do speak Russian, and studied Russian for 5 years, so I appreciate the fact that it is nice for Americans to learn another language.  But it is nice for us. It is necessary for them.

which is a subject you've brought up and answered for him.

You should count your blessings. If English teaching is that bad, you know the students aren't going to be learning Spanish.

Now, seriously, I don't see why it should be a question of one or the other. While it might be true that embarrassing yourself overseas on vacation is something minor. You come home, and laugh about it.

However, the comedy quickly wears of when you're living in a country permanently, and you can't understand your customers. Insisting they learn English then will miss the point.

About Obama himself, maybe he wishes he learned Spanish? I guess that's not enough, but remember this example, that Putin eventually became fluent in English.

Well, that is certainly apparent. The reason you can’t see why it’s not “a question of one or the other”, is because that wasn’t my point. Nor was it BHO's.

I was appalled that BHO was equating the significance of the two

I don't see why you're appalled at his equating them. Maybe you're worried it will make a bad school system worse, by detracting time from English, or causing teachers to discourage English. That is a completely separate question, and based on what you infer from what he says.

The fact is, because our school system is based on local control with Federal Funds for incentives, how schools in a locality choose to teach Spanish shouldn't be a national issue, unless they're doing it to get funding following a law written by the feds.

My child learning Spanish is equally important as a Mexican immigrant child learning English?

Preposterous and you should know it.

And depending on the region, it might be fifty percent Hispanic. I admit that might be an example of liberals trying to think too far ahead, and not being pragmatic enough.

But at the very least, it's good to know Spanish just to understand what Hispanics are saying when they don't think you understand them. So, just for paranoia's sake, it's good to learn Spanish-- especially as a teenager.

-- Modified on 7/13/2008 9:05:27 AM

You just made my point. You’re in a mindset of "Let's just surrender now".  Your thinking and others like you have the U.S. on course to become the first nation to willingly become, through self determination, a bi-lingual society. It’s not the same as Canada's situation or anywhere else I can think of.

Sure, learning a second or third language is wonderful and useful, BUT the much higher priority needs to be to insure that immigrants learn English. It does a HUGE. HUGE HUGE (I can’t say it loud enough) disservice to young Mexican children to allow them (or in some cases force them) to retain Spanish as their primary language.

It sounds like English is the ball we have to keep in our possession. And the self-determination part must be something even worse, like a really embarrassing way of turning the ball over.

I believe it's a rhetorical argument. I don't think Obama was implying that Hispanic children not learn English, and not learn it as a primary language. But you have to see, the US system is one of local control of the schools. Obama knows he's not going to have any control over school policies, except maybe in the form of Federal funding, and somehow I don't believe his Secretary of Education is going to deny that to schools which dare teach too much English to Hispanics.

I think it would be a failure of the school system if they didn't teach English to Hispanic children,  I believe he would think it a failure if that happened. A school that could do both equally well is ideal.

It has everything to do with economic stability and growth, not just for the country, but also for those left behind due their lack of access to the mainstream.

I’ve already made statements here agreeing that BHO’s wants English taught to immigrants. The ENTIRE issue here is the IMPORTANCE of that fact. BHO elevates the importance of native Americans to learn Spanish (or another foreign language) to at least the same level. It doesn’t belong there. All it does is increase the chances for those that want US to become completely bi-lingual to succeed.

Which BTW, there ARE many school systems that ARE INTENTIONALLY FAILING, that do NOT (or do not adequately) teach English to foreign speaking children. We ARE on a course of complete bi-ligualism. The Federal government CAN and SHOULD do something about it by declaring an official language


-- Modified on 7/13/2008 12:01:18 PM

Note the url below. Also note that Gallup has said that 72 percent of Hispanics favor bilingual education. The Url is too long, so I'll append another message to this one.

I hate to say, culturally it isn't popular-- and that isn't to say only Hispanic culture. Mostly, parents won't support teachers or schools on this. As soon the child's self-esteem shows any sign of damage, insisting that he or she actually learn something as difficult as English gets ends up in the shitcan. Also, the parents won't support a teacher who disses their child by suggesting that he or she isn't doing good.

Conservatives will argue that that is a liberal agenda, (different subject) but it's at least aggravated by conservatives insisting on local control, and then just complaining when the local control is a calamity.

The Federal Government can and should do something by declaring English the official language. You have to favor the Federal Government above the States to do this, in theory. This is the same Federal government that let Arizona bow out of daylight savings time, for no reason, just because. It declared the goal of converting the US to the Metric System, and then promptly buried that law.

But enough. Obama's phrasing really doesn't matter, IMO. You should be happy he would be in the presidency and not in the Senate in that case, not making the laws. To enforce English as the official language, local school boards and schools must stand up to Hispanic parents, or Hispanic parents must be persuaded of the need. There is no other way. They don't see the need, or they don't think it's worth possibly dissing their children.

"Embarrassment?" offended you? You need just need to chill out. I was just saying when you talked about "giving up" you lost me.  

BTW, it might happen that the two languages do meld into Spanglish. That appears to be the best outcome.

Twenty-two percent of Americans can hold a conversation in at least one other language, mostly Spanish.

You don't find that fact just anywhere.

taking the shape or form of whatever container of "facts" blows in on the wind. It does not matter, the motives of non English speakers. It's wrong and needs to be fixed. For their sake as well as everyones.

Plus, where do you get off, just making shit up about what you think I said? How do you come away thinking "'Embarrassment?' offended me?"

-- Modified on 7/13/2008 8:21:23 PM

He just makes shit up whenever it's convenient.