And no GA "who believes no Democrat supports 2nd. amendment rights" Gambler, this isn't from the editorial board of the NYT....Seven representative liberal groups rated the senators & Clinton & Obama are not even close to being the most liberal....

Of course, to some here (harry, RW Underground, Billkile), ALL Democrats are FAR left...

I'm going to get my Dennis Miller Obscure Reference Manual so I can understand any reply from "Billkile"....



"So, what about Obama, Clinton, and McCain? Obama at 80% and Clinton at 82% are (1) not far apart and (2) among the least liberal Democrats. In contrast, John McCain at 9% is one of the most conservative Republicans. When McCain campaigned this year as a true conservative, he was telling the truth. He is more conservative than Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY), the minority leader, and more conservative than all the senators from Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia, not known as hotbeds of liberalism. Conclusion: when people say Obama and Clinton are liberals, that's not true; when people say McCain is a conservative, that is true".

for us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSizQPLqETc

Cheap websites are popping up all over Cyberspace. Most of them just throw crap up and get people exited. Prime examples are Hffington Post, Politico, etc. All they are doing is to make outlandish statements without any legitimacy  to get people (shall I say fanatics) to flock to the site to generate ad revenue.

Too many crappy sites all over Cyberspace. Nice catchy name for a site with no basis. Just like Real Politics and CNN Poll of Polls are statistical inaccuracies, one doesn't take average of polls (population sample in stat speak) and come up with number. No wonder why all of these polls have proved so far.

There are sites which state Obama is more liberal than Clinton and other way around and same goes for McCain. All are partisan trying to get a micro demographic to visit their sites to make money for themselves, period.

What is important to me is that Osama claims that government can solve all problems if the people just surrender their money and liberty to the arrogant liberal politicians. Everyone will have the government as their guardian and life will be uptopia for all (especially the sheep herders). He can shove it up his nose. I don't want the government screwing around with my life 24 hours a day. Leave my money and my freedom alone and find another way to boost your ego and amuse yourself, hell, go ride your damn'd camel Hussein, whatever you want, but don't try to micromanage my life.

Care to provide a link where Senator Obama made those claims?

Kerrakles, you summed it up nicely. People like Moose that are dying to find "proof" for their postions are prime fodder for these scamsters. Zin used to come up with crap like this all the time and then wonder why the outcomes were so different from his prognostications.

Our Hundred Years' War!  Don't even count the money,  it will make the greenback as solid as confederate money!  Which should make you happy, you don't have any allegiance to the USA, only to $$$$!! Get those bucks and RUN like thieves!!  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSizQPLqETc

Nothing going on here that a couple hundred count indictment against a couple hundred members of the administration couldn't solve!  



-- Modified on 4/9/2008 1:18:50 PM

is there any Democrat who you think is not far left?...

I could of very easily voted for Leiberman. If the ticket was reversed on it was Leiberman/Gore instead of Gore/Leiberman I could have held my nose in regards to Gore and voted for the ticket.

Now let me ask you, Is there any Republican that you would consider for POTUS?

.... I bet Chelsea #2 would be a super creamy white mocha mulatto.  I would wrap her in a 2 recycled holders.  Always consider the environment when drinking lattes.  Go Cubs!

I say sorta of because I like Arnold Schwartzenegger, though he is not eligible to run for POTUS since he was not born in the US....He's certainly a moderate, liberal on social issues, I could vote for him...

I could vote for Lincoln Chafee....How about I'll trade you Libermann for Chafee (and a senator to be named later, lol.)...

And, (this is one I think we'd actually BOTH agree on) - Barry Goldwater...You said in past posts you despise the religious right, I do to & so did Mr. Goldwater....(Though you can make a good argument that Goldwater is more of a libertarian than Republican)...

Just Goggle. There are millions of links saying one thing or the other. If you base your arguments on these websites, there is no hope.

Below is a link on OB illusion on Foreign Policy written by an Ex Ambassador. One can debate whether writer knows something or he is idiot.

Just an example of statements OB has made along the way. MSM is more interested in Sniper Fire than discussing anything substantial and the bloggers (90% of them nim wits) goes to town with ignorance.

-- Modified on 4/9/2008 5:20:33 PM

We finally agree on something. Actually we agree on two things. Arnold and Barry Goldwater, and I do agree with your argument that Goldwater(by todays standards at least) would be more of a Libertarian than a Republican.

Chafee OTOH is probably more liberal than most Dems. I do agree with him on many social issues like abortion rights, but I disagree with him strongly on the more important issues (to me at least) like higher taxes, he voted for the continuation of the death tax and also voted to reinstate the 39.6% federal tax rate. I will allow that he is in favor of at the the semi privatization of Social Security, but all in all I'd have to give him a thumbs down.

I do have to confess this is the most I've agreed with you on any subject so far. Who knows, maybe we'll have another one of those outbreaks of civility around here? Naaah, not while JackO is still of his meds. lol

They are for 2007, and the only reason they are not 100% for Clinton and Obama is because both senators missed some votes. ADA counts an absence the same as a vote against the ADA preference. For the votes they were present on, both Clinton and Obama always voted in line with ADA. Their "adjusted" ADA scores would be 100.

Go to the ADA website itself. For 2005, both Clinton and Obama are 100% (20 for 20), and for 2006, they are both 95% (only one vote out of 20 against ADA preference). McCain is 15% in each year. So the conclusion is that indeed Clinton and Obama are more liberal (and two of the most liberal) than McCain is conservative. At least by ADA's standards. The other interest group scores are irrelevent since they don't represent the normal liberal-conservative spectrum.

When political scientists study liberal/conservative dimensions, they use either ADA (where high score represents more liberal) or ACU (where high score represents more conservative). I have never seen any of the other scores ever used in this context. And often for ADA, the absence-adjusted score is typically used.  Those would rank both Clinton and Obama as "perfectly" liberal.

-- Modified on 4/9/2008 7:37:11 PM

-- Modified on 4/9/2008 8:22:15 PM

Wow! Another op-ed from Joe Wilson. He's credible. Once again, Wilson portrays himself as Superman with Einstein's IQ, and everyone else is stupid and fucked up. Classic career State Dept. hack.

Here's what I know about Obama, based on what Obama has said.

He will talk to Iran, No Korea, Cuba, Syria, Hamas, and Lex Luthor.

He will NOT talk to Fox News.

Out of the above, he must feel Fox is too dangerous for him.

He will bridge the divide among Americans, as long as these Americans aren't watching Fox News. If you're on  Fox, you're a bad guy. If you're a murdering dictator, "Let's have coffee!"

finally agree on something, LOL!!....

Now, I'm sure I'll never be able to convince you to vote for the Democratic nominee in November (be it Clinton or Obama), but if I can get you to stay home & NOT vote for John McCain either, then I will have succeeded, LOL...

anymore than I can convince you that Obama is a sack of hot air with absolutely no substance whatsoever.

The only chance of my voting Democratic this election was if Huckabee had been nominated. My nightmare scenario was a Obama/Huckabee matchup, I would have to sit that one out, there is no way in hell I could bring myself to vote for either of them. Even the Hildabeast would look tolerable in comparison.

Re-elect us!!   I've already got the Supreme Court's OK.