What would you propose we do for someone who loses his job because it was outsourced because of the poor economy, yet who is a Diabetic, and now has lost their health insurance as a result of being unemployed?  And now, as a result of being a Diabetic, they cannot purchase health insurance privately, and as a result of being unemployed, they cannot come close to paying for the costs of treatment for Diabetes out of pocket.

Would you propose that we as a nation:  

1) Let a person die of the complications of untreated Diabetes

2) Encourage that person to, out of desperation, turn to criminal behavior in order to get into prison, where we have the legal responsibility of treating thier illness.

3) Figure out some type of means of financing and providing basic healthcare to this individual.  

4) Some alternate solution which I have not listed

Great point Stud.


I say we stop outsourcing our jobs.

Capitolism is good to a point, but it must be reeled in when making as buck comes before whats best for the country.


Multinational corporations are killing this country.

Assume we are talking about a single adult, non-senior-citizen without any dependents.  They are not likely to be eligible for Medicaid, despite having low income due to losing their job when their company has downsized.  And their oportunity to participate in COBRA is only for short-term duration - let's say that duration has passed.  

They are now among those 44 million Americans who is uninsured, and they cannot buy insurance even if they could afford it, due to their pre-existing condition of being a diabetic.  So what's their alternative for medical care in our society?

While I don't like the idea, especially when I see how poorly they work in England and Canada, I think we need a single payor system.  Only the government can fulfill that role.  The benefit of such a system will be universal coverage.  The downsides are many:  longer waits for care and surgery, less bells and whistles and new advancements, higher taxes (it will cost a lot) to name a few.
 Medicaid, by the way, is a horrible system.  It pays about 13% of what I bill, which usually is not even enough to cover my costs (so I can loose money on a medicaid patient).
 The brief answer, we will get a single payor government-run health care system sometime in the future, probably after Medicare goes bankrupt and we are in a "crisis".  It will result in less flashy and less convenient care, but hopefully it will be a safety net for the 40 million who are currently uncovered.  I hope, however, that individuals could opt out of the system if they are willing to pay for private insurance (you can do this in England but not in Canada).  I see no reason why Bill Gate's health care should be paid for by the taxpayers.  What I fear is that the erection of this massive system will not include tort reform, so doctors' pay will go down but their malpractice insurance will continue to skyrocket.  If that happens, you'll see a bunch of doctors retire early or change careers (even more than are doing that now), and you'll see much less qualified students go into medicine (why sacrifice a decade of your life to learn your trade if you are going to make 70-90 K a year?).
 I guess that was a long-winded answer.

How about helping him find a job, and letting him get health insurance through a program that rewards him for attempting to get off public assistance instead of penalizing them as they do now. The more they work, the less assistance they get, no incentive to try and change their lot in life. The system encourages dependance and creates a class of people that rely on hand outs.

... so I can't understand why Sdstud is in such a lather.  Why do Democrats try to whip people up into a frenzy over a problem that barely exists?

Can you name even one verifiable person who has died due to lack of care for an ongoing ailment due to refusal of medical care?

All you have to do is go to any hospital and watch a few moments, nobody is denied care.

The answer to your question is Medical, and I'm sure other states have the same or equivalent programs.

Another answer is COBRA, paid for with savings that you put away for this kind of life event to carry you through while you look and get another job.  Oh, you didn't save, now you want my money?  Maybe you should ask Hanoi John, he's got millions!

I see uninsured patients use the ER all the time for sniffles, minor situations.  They don't have primary care docs, and they clog up the ER unneccessarily.  Or the opposite is true, they have chronic conditions that are ignored (who can blame them when they don't have coverage) until they reach a true crisis.  Either way it isn't a good solution, and they don't get preventative care.  Bribite is correct that usually if you have an emergency situation, you can get care no matter what your financial status (unless the docs involved are weasels, which I also see).  I have done three operations just this week on the uninsured.
COBRA, by the way, is expensive.  For people changing jobs, they have to have saved several thousand dollars to afford it.

Medicare is the federal program for senior citizens.  Medicaid is a state/federal program to provide health care for low income people.  Regardless of whether they have children.

You must also have other characteristics, such as be disabled, pregnant, or have dependent children at home.  The Medicaid eligibility requirements specifically state this.  Various states might enlarge the eligibility, but it is by no means guaranteed.

We DON'T have guaranteed medical care in this country, except for emergency medicine.  I specifically chose Diabetes in my example, because that is a chronic condition for which lack of proper and ongoing treatment is the primary cause of death, and it is exactly the type of chronic condition that would make it difficult to impossible for an individual to obtain private insurance.

Because most of the people who die from Diabetes die because they did not have proper treatment over a period of time.  And once the consequences manifest themselves in acute conditions that would qualify for emergency room care, the long term damage has already been done.

You must meet other criteria as well, such as being pregnant, disabled, or having dependent children.  Some states provide TEMPORARY Medicaid benefits for people on welfare or Social Security, but they are time limited, even if you remain unemployed.

I never said anything about my person being a senior citizen.

The fact is, many people in this country, especially the unemployed or those employed without health benefits, cannot get medical care for a chronic condition like Diabetes.  And that is a major contributor to the death rate for Diabetes in this country.

And yes, I'm a Diabetic, and I'm covered and well treated.  But only because of my employment.  Were I not employed, once my COBRA benefits expired, I'd be S-O-L for health insurance, or any other means of paying for my Diabetes care, other than out of pocket.

I'm in Orange County, CA and recently had the misfortune of having to visit an ER in Anaheim with my aging father.  What I witnessed was "Baby Wellchecks" in the lobby of the ER being administered for "free" to what I assumed were recent immigrants from Mexico.  In the meantime, my dad was having severe heart pain and waited in line.

I can see that this influx of people, mainly uninsured people, is hammering our medical infrastructure.  What I also see is the hospitals in Palm Springs seriously impacted by Canadians fleeing the Socialized Medicine in their own country at institutions like the Bob Hope Medical Center.  The difference is that the Canadians are paying their bills.

Mexicans come here for the free medicine, Canadians come here for adequate medicine, so where is the solution?

It would seem that socialized medicine would work for colds and flu, but what happens when you need open heart surgery or a hip replacement?  In Canada you either wait on endless waiting lists or come to America if you can afford it and get it within days.

I would say open up some free clinics for those without medical insurance for colds, flu and minor out patient surgeries and get them out of the medicine for profit hospitals.

Oh yea, and shoot all the lawyers.

P.S.  I also contend that this is a personal responsibility issue, if it is important to you, you will save for "rainy" days.  How these issues became governmental issues baffles me.  Where in our Constitution does it say anything about free medical care or free anything?

Can we add that both are totally inadequately funded and administered?  I think its part of why they are so often confused.

I am in favour of a modified single payer program- OR a change in rhetoric where we will all admit that health is not a right but a privelidge.  Once we all admit that, that we are not a progressive country but rather willing to write off the health of many of our people, we can really address the issue.  We will be seen as philistines by most other developed countries, but we are already seemingly happy that way.  And GOPers can stop pretending to give a shit about the worker or the poor.

I don't mind the GOPs present focus on serving the wealthy with tax benefits and the pro-business agenda. It's the lying about it and claiming to be doing it to serve the people's needs that I find so repugnant.

As I understand it an illegal allien would be given ONLY emergency care.  Well, I am not oppossed to some type of reform but lets make it nationwide and not just targeting CERTAIN alliens.  Meanwhile, back at the ranch, CA was raped by those ENRON Fucks.

I suppose 187 was POS Pete Wilson's ``compassionate conservative'' platform.

What I said is that everyone should have the opportunity to get some type of nationally subsidized health insurance, for a reasonable cost - Irrespective of any pre-existing conditions or employment status.

And BTW, the rationale is, if you DON'T provide access to medical care to people who have diseases, but are not yet debilitated, what should they do?  Should they simply go off to die quietly?   Or, more reasonably, should they turn to crime to support their needed medical care?  The reason this is needed is that the rest of society cannot have a situation where people are desperately seeking a means to support their needs for health care.  You're very good at saying that the existing or proposed solutions are bad, but what's YOUR proposed solution?  We get the impression that it's "Tough crap, fend for yourself, you should have saved for a rainy day."
Well, quite simply, that's an invitation to the people involved to become violent criminals.

But you loose convenience and "bells and whistles" care.  No question people will have to wait longer for operations.  And some will be denied operations (which is not always a bad thing.  I have put hemodialysis shunts in stroked-out old people who can't even talk).
 I do not think non-U.S. citizens should be able to freely access our health care system, except in true emergencies (appendicitis, trauma, etc...), without paying cash up front.
 There are already free clinics, but they are few and far between, understaffed and underfinanced.
 Shooting all the lawyers is a good start, but they are like the terminator, they keep coming back.
 Personal responsibility is fine, but in medical care, you soon can reach the point where nearly no one can afford to pay for his/her care or meds, or even insurance premiums.  Could you cough up $100,000 to pay for your father's heart bypass?  I couldn't.
 Finally, no where in the constitution does if promise free health care.  It is not an inalienable right, IMHO, but it can and should be a goal of our prosperous society to help provide a basic level of care to all its citizens.

If its a right- then let's go for a single pay system

if its a privelige- then shut the fuck up claiming we are a caring society and let's step over the bodies in the doorways and move on.