Phil, these are the sort of posts of yours that just drive me batshit. The EPA has been relaxing more rules than you can shake a stick at.

If you don't like a business you can go somewhere else? Really? Even if there's a semi-monopoly? How many people in this country are stuck with the same cable provider and can't go anywhere else, or if they can the competition sucks worse? Strange thing about that, the phones lines and other rights-of-way services are technically owned by the public. I am a part owner of these services, yet I can't charge Comcast a fee for using them. But they certainly can charge me. Verizon can come dig up my yard on my own private property to install lines I'm never going to use, but I can't charge them rent.

Of course, if you don't like your government, you too can GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

No, AT&T can't throw you in jail, but the only reason they can't is because of rules established by big government. In the past, private business could hire some Pinkertons and beat your bloody or shoot you in the head. In parts of South America GoodYear Tire will hire a mercenary and have you disappeared if you raise a fuss. In Bolivia, an American private business that goes by the handle Bechtel had all water privitized. People were charged 90% of their earnings to even pay for rain water that fell from the sky.

These are the same sort of people who like the idea of privitizing the air we breathe. The logical conclusion being is that if you can't pay, they get to sufficate you with a pillow. Oh, and by the way, we get to charge your remaining family for the pillow.

Mussolini said that "fascism should rightly be called corportism, as it is the merger of state and corporate power". In a democracy, I have less reason to fear the government than I do of dictatorial institutions like big business.

-- Modified on 1/10/2012 2:10:16 PM

Pounding your head against the wall (arguing with Willy) will almost certainly give you a headache in a pretty short period of time.

When dealing with Willy I find it much easier, and less painful, to simply lob an insult or two and move on to other things when he becomes TSTTT, or TBFLTTT. You'll thank me in the morning. lol

and oil is coating Manhattan Beach and Malibu and the entire LA water supply, the EPA should not be able to issue a “compliance order” telling BP to stop polluting the California water and beaches and issue daily fines for noncompliance?

     In your view, BP should be able to go to court and argue that the Clean Water Act does not apply to offshore wells and the EPA cannot make them stop the oil gusher. Have I got that right?


     Five years later, BP loses the case. Unfortunately for you and St. Croix and everyone else in LA, LA is now an oil waste land.

       You see the problem – you can’t unring the bell in environmental water pollution cases. Once  our waters are polluted, it takes a life time to clean them. That is why the EPA is empowered to take quick action when the Clean Water Act has been violated –as was the case with these idiots who poured dirt and rock into a protected wetland - to force immediate compliance without being dragged into court by whining lawyers.

      And your ire is misdirected anyway – if you feel BP should be able to litigate its next oil spill into our water, you should berate Congress, not the EPA. This is not a regulation - Congress is the one who decided CWA compliance orders are not subject to judicial review.


    And please don't see "you are making up things I didn't say" - this is the logical consequence of your reasoning. For once Willy is right, although he does not understand exactly why.

The EPA is crazy. A business if being fined millions of dollars for not using a product that doesn't exist.  Of course, the cost is paid by custormers, eventually.

The facts of the Supreme Court case on the EPA (Sackett v. EPA) are scary.  For those not familiar with it, a couple bought a vacant lot near a lake to build a house. They put gravel down and were told they were damaging a wetland and faced a $75,000 fine per day.  They were told they did not have a right to a court determination unless the EPA decided to sue them.

I don't like big business, per se, although many do provide great services.  I support local small business, like cheese stores and nurseries, but try providing me with a flight for my next trip to Europe through a mom's-and-pop's store.

That said, for the most part, if I don't like a big business I can go somewhere else.  Likewise, and more importantly, Exxon can't take my money without my consent and AT&T can't throw me in jail.

SONY can't demand I pay $10,000 per day for anything unless they go to court first.

On the other hand, the government can take everything I have.  I am not saying they will, but that is a tool that big companies don't have.  




http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/business/energy-environment/companies-face-fines-for-not-using-unavailable-biofuel.html

As for the .02% I haven't decided what it is. But, I reserve the right to disagree.

there are plenty of reasons to fear our government more than ever, what with the Patriot Act and the recently signed (by Obama) bill permitting indefinite detention of American citizens.  Basically, we're surrounded by wolves on all sides.

I admit it is hard to go to another company at time when there is a semi-monopoly, but name one corporation that can fine me $75,000 per day.  PER DAY. '

Name one company that after I buy a piece of land can tell me that I can't build on it and they won't compensate me for the loss.

Name one company that can fine me a late fee and try to collect without going to trial.

Name one company that can put me in jail.

Of course, you never answer any direct question, so avoid those and post another picture.

The EPA relaxing standards.  BULLSHIT. Did you read how they impose millions of dollars fines on companies that don't use products when those products don't exist.  

If that is "relaxing standards," then they had been the most totalitarian organization in the history of the US.  I would love to see their old rigid standards.  Did they cut off your arm?

Don't talk to me of the past in the US and compare it to the present.  I know history.  I don't fear Pinkerton today as much as I fear the IRS.

You live in the past and another country. In South America..... In the 1890's.......

And cable TV.  Oh, wow.  Comcast's power over my life ain't my big concern.  If I have to pay a few dollars too much to watch a movie, I am not as afraid as I am when every year I get a letter from the IRS.  

And the EPA is the tip of the ice berg. (Or Ice Stein if you are reformed Jew.  That's a joke.)  I know people who own dance studios, cheese shops, garages, coffee shops.  The hoops they jumped through would make you sick.
Single business owner opens a dance studio. No employees. CALOSHA wants her to post signs about workers rights or she will be fined.  From every square foot you can see the door to the outside.  She has to get an electrician to hot wire an electric exit sign over the door at the cost of $500.  That is a lot of money for someone opening a dance studio.  

Then she is told she has to reserve 3 of her parking spaces for handicap. It is a fucking dance studio.  She never had one cripple the whole time.  It is in an area where parking is a premium and spaces cost $70 a month.  Basically, they stole $800 a year from her.

And you fear ComCast.  

Reagan was right. The most feared 8 words in the English language are "I'm from the government. I'm here to help."

Yeah, you don't like RR, but you have to explain one thing:  Why did that sentence resonate with millions of people?"  Simple questionk but you never answer simple questions.  Again. Why did millions of people relate to that statement?  Maybe because they fear comcast and hate Bush.

A nice brick often helps as well.

I find it scary that the EPA can tell a home owner that he has to pay $75,000 per day for putting gravel on his driveway, and you assume that I think if BP blew an oil well of Malibu that I think the EPA should do nothing.

How do you get that far so fast?

They aren't idiots. They bought vacant land and had no reason to believe that they couldn't put gravel.

Talk about penalties out of proportion to the offense. In one year they could be fined 26 million dollars for putting gravel on a vacant lot.  And you think that is okay. (Weren't you the one who thought it was harsh to persecute someone who drugged and butt fucked a minor after he got away with it for 20 years living in luxury.)

There is a legit role for the EPA. THere is a legit role more many agencies.  But they have reached a level of abuse that has to be reined in.  

You are right that I should berate Congress.  The problem is that Congress has delegated too much authority to administrative agencies.  Not just congress, but Sacto, Albany, and every where else. We are ruled by laws that administrators promolugated that one one voted on.

And in any event for anyone to decide orders are not subject to Judical review kind of fucks up the theory of a nation governed by laws.  Nope. Some fucking administrator in D.C. can destroy a person's life and no judicial review.

I bet you want judicial review for a $200 fine for Occupy Wall Streeters.  But a million dollars for putting gravel on a vacant lot is fine. No need for a judge there.  

to dump rocks and gravel on your land.  

    Land use restrictions are a matter of public record and should have been disclosed to you by the attorney who did the title search on your property.


   So if the Sacklers "had no reason to know" they could not dump gravel into the wetland, they wee idiots bc they did not bother to check.

As to

"Weren't you the one who thought it was harsh to persecute someone who drugged and butt fucked a minor after he got away with it for 20 years living in luxury?")

let's sharpen your memory a bit. I stated two years ago that it was insane for California to spend a million plus dollars attempting to extradite the 70 year old Mr. Polanski for unlawful sex with a minor when I knew that California would have to release him from prison if he was reconvicted.


     And guess what - I was right. Check the cirteria for which they are releasing prisoners and you would see that Mr. Polanski would be first in line to get out.

    Now aren't you glad I saved your state that money?

Phil, this is very simple. If you don't want to be fined 75k a day, then don't break the fucking law. If you do want to, then GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If you fear the IRS, then GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.  

Yes, the EPA IS relaxing standards.

http://www.energyefficiencynews.com/regulations-and-control/i/4538/

http://www.uusc.org/content/concern_about_relaxing_epa_standards_regarding_radioactive_nuclides_drinking_water

You're really bitching about big government when your friend's dance studio isn't up to fire code? Jesus. Yeah, the door may be visable normally, but it might be hard to fucking find if the building is filled with smoke. If it cost your friend $500 dollars to wire an exit sign above a door, then he (she?) is a fucking dolt. You can pick one up at Home Depot for 50 bucks.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100045025/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

And it's not hard to hard wire one of these things. The hot wire goes to the hot, the ground wire goes to ground. Very simple. As for the parking spaces, she should have asked for an exemption, and if that didn't work, I would have gone to the press.

Reagan was a senile old dipshit who turned the richest and strongest nation the earth had ever seen into the basketcase it is today. The gov't is only as good as you make it. We saw people in Libya, Tunisa, and Egypt risking their lives fighting a gov't far more draconian than ours, and in the end they succeeded. The reason why they won is because they were problem solvers instead of whiners.

Jesus, Phil. You're really bitching about the burdens of being up to fire code? Meanwhile Monsanto will sue your ass for everything you have if they accidently dump some of the genetically modified shit-corn on your land. Nestle will put broken glass in your baby's food and Mattel will be lead in your kid's toys. Countrywide will steal Grandma's home, and Jack In The Box will give you food poisoning. Hell, Wal-Mart will even take life insurance on it's own employees just in case they kill them. And no, the insurance money doesn't go to the worker's family, but to their bottom line. And just in case they kill you, they make a profit. You know what they call this? Dead Peasants insurance.  

But that's before you get into deeper more disturbing realities. As many as 11,000 Americans are murdered every year. 3,000 Americans were murdered on 9/11. Compare this to the 56,000 Americans who die of occupational diseases, pollution, or hospital malpractice. Street crime costs as much as 3.8 billion a year, yet the Savings & Loan scandal cost between 300-500 billion. Phil, you fear a letter from the IRS, but Union Carbide killed 25,000 in Bhopal. You fear handicapped parking, but General Electric and TEPCO gave us the bad engineering that created the Fukushima disaster. You fear a 75k a day fine for building your house on some wetlands, but it's big business that wrecked the world's entire economy.

I'm sorry Phil, your argument here is just plain nutty.

-- Modified on 1/11/2012 7:25:34 AM

you may not agree w/ maris POV but he does'nt lie like willy. i think even phil would agree with me on that.

Even if they could have know, what is troubling is the fact that for a minor matter they are hit with tens of thousands of dollars in fines and have no right to a hearing.

It is good that the government can respond, but it has to be in proportion.  You compare this case to a blow out of an oil well spewing thousands of gallons of oil into the ocean per hours.  At the worst, this is some rocks sitting on vacant land.  Okay. That's bad. Let's take everything they own and destroy their lives. Trial? Fuck that.

If there were a cell of terrorists with anthrax and nukes, I would not mind the FBI going in there, repelling down from helicopters with precussion grenades and swat teams at 2:00 a.m.

But to use that forced to take someone who has a warrant for an unpaid parking ticket would be a tad over the top.

Re Polanski:  My memory was pretty good.  What part of "who drugged and butt fucked a minor after he got away with it for 20 years living in luxury" is inaccurate?  I think it sums up your view. Where do you disagree.

Yes, now he would be released because we are broke.  But, no I am not overjoyed when someone drugs and rapes a minor and gets away with it. I am not overjoyed when someone escapes punishment and then his defense to absconding is "You didn't catch me."

California wastes so much money on other things that I don't see what is wrong with making a child molestor serve a little time.  

When I was in Argentina a number of years ago, I got to know someone who explained somethig really scary about bureaucrats.

Peron did make people "disappear," and at times thugs would beat people up.  But most of the country could be pacified by other means.  

Newspaper owners never disappeared.  But if they had an unfavorable article, someone from the building department would discover that they did not have proper bathrooms for employees and would levy a fine or two.

The next week, another inspector would show up and notice that the breaks workers got were not long enough or frequent enough.  

By the fifth week there would be no more nasty articles.

The same could be done on anyone who had any business.  If you know someone who owns a restaurant or apartment or dance studio or almost any other business, you can be ruined by petty bureaucrats.

Should an employer provide bathrooms for workers? Of course.  Should the stairs be properly lit?  Of course.  Should they shut down his business, take his life savings, and put him into debt for the rest of his life because the bathroom wasn't working three days in a row, and do all that without a trial?

Maybe a little harsh.