We have increased the debt limit many times since the 1950's so what's the big deal?

Fucking get on with it!

really getting sick of this fraud. All the President does is travel the country on Air Force One eating fancy dinners and giving speeches on how bad people the Republicans are. Does he ever stay in WaSHINGton and actually work?

What are the fundamental changes President-Elect Obama promised on November 8, 2008? President Obama is a stooge for Big government, Big corporations and Big city lawyers.  I am going to call Obama, CEO of MGM. What is an MGM you ask?

Several years ago on a taxi ride from "The Rio", the driver made a joke as we passed the MGM. "Yep! he said: picked up a guy once from the  MGM and said MGM stood for "Money Grubbin' Motherfuckers".

Big government = under Obama we all know he loves to spend trillions by expanding a health care bill no one wanted, a trillion dollar stimulus bill that increased the umemployment rate. I don't understand how Obama can spend 4 trillion dollars over the debt limit and and increase the GDP by only 1.2 percent?

Big corporations = the merger of Comcast/NBC. Comcast since the merger has really screwed the small contractor and increased fees on the consumer. Comcast is another MGM. Now don't get me wrong, I like big corporations like Coca Cola, Bechtel, Apple etc. but they got big because they produced good products treat suppliers and contractors decent, not because they paid huge money to politicians to broker an illegal merger.

Big Ciy Lawyers = the amount of useless regulations that has come out from the administration. New laws passed under the previous Democratic Congress and the regulations coming out of the Federal register are going to force even the smallest employers to employ a person just to maintain the amount of paperwork to satisfy new labor, health, tax, safety, transportation and environmental regs etc.

The big corporation can afford to hire lawyers, lobbyists, the staff to maintain and understand the paperwork but the small employer cannot. And Obama has the audacity to stand before America and blame everyone but himself for mess we are in. I know a small contractor and a good employer who did cable installation work for Comcast but is now getting out of the business.  It's just not worth it he says.

O = One
B = Big
A = Ass
M = Mistake
A = America





-- Modified on 7/26/2011 12:14:31 AM

you're just not capable of an unbiased view of anything the man says.  Your opening statement flies in the face of facts.  Whether you agree with what Obama has proposed or not, to say all he does is fly around the country doing fund-raisers is ludicrous.  In fact, actual statistics show he's spent far more time in DC than Bush ever did.
As for slamming him about the stimulus package and job growth, suffice it to say I don't agree but decline to debate this of-argued-about topic again.  I know I won't convince you and you're certainly not going to convince me.
And what is this hard-on you have for Comcast/NBC?  You brought it up a while ago and now you talk about knowing "a small contractor" who now can't make a buck for Comcast.  Obviously I 'd never suggest  you reveal personal info on this board, but it's clear you've personally got a bone to pick with this company and, based on previous rants, with the FCC.  Now, I'm not a fan of the FCC either and have no connection with Comcast other than paying them a monthly fee.  It's just clear you have a personal axe to grind here and it makes your comments seem self-serving.  As far as I know (and I have more than a passing knowledge of that business) Comcast is no better and no worse than other large cable companies.  They are best compared to Time Warner before it spun off its cable operations -- a vertically integrated media company with all the goods and bads that go with that.  You happen to love Apple, but it has many detractors.  Lots of people love to hate Microsoft.  What ever.  Who cares?
And what the heck it has to do with Obama and the debt ceiling is really beyond me.

-- Modified on 7/26/2011 7:03:54 AM

We did increase it too many times.  But this is a huge jump.

It would be like having an income of $100,000, and going in debt $20K. Not good, but if you increase it next year to owe 30, it's worse.  

The difference is eventually a house can default.  If the debt gets too big for the government to pay, it prints more money.  But then the money you have is worth less.  If you have saved 10K and want to buy a trip to Europe, and the govt prints an extra 2 trillion, your 10K is worth less, and you can only go to the beach. You lost the value of all your money.

Look at the last two spikes on your chart.  Look at that jump.  Scary.

Though I'm pretty sure mr.nt was being sarcastic.  My feeling on this is we do have to put major cuts in place, but I fail to see why some revenue adjustments shouldn't be in the mix.  What's going on now is fundamentally a battle over political priorities (and positioning for the next election) by putting the "full faith and credit" of the US at risk.  In turn, that puts all of us at risk who have skin in the game (investments, houses, jobs, etc.), and it is unconscionable.

The spike in debt under his presidency isn't really his.  In fact, none of the economic negatives (and God knows there are quite a few) aren't his either.  It belongs to Bush (left office Jan, 2009) and the Tea Party Republicans (entered office Jan, 2011).  He's doing awesome and we need 4 more years of all this because it's not his fault.

Show me the individuals who pay no taxes and are creating meaningful jobs for others.  The problem with "revenue adjustment" at this moment in time is pretty simple, we need jobs a hell of a lot more than we need so-called "social justice".  Now is simply not the time.  I challenge you to take an unbiased look at virtually every thing Obama has done since being in office and then tell me in a straight face that he hasn't used his position and power to simply uproot the US from a democracy into a socialist country.  And while we are at it, again in a straight face, show me one fricking thing he as done that has made our country better than it was when he took over.  And one more thought, show me one president in history has told more lies to the American people than Obama.  I've taken the challenge myself, and while I never liked this guy, I was frankly appalled after seeing it laid out succinctly without pundant bias.

Actually, your premise is wrong.  Last week, there was an agreement in principle to allow some "revenue increase" by closing the so-called loopholes to the tune of about 800 billion.  It was Obama who then changed the game by attempting to also use this timeframe to increase tax rates on those above 250k.  Willy, you sometimes reveal some great insights and it's a shame that your obvious skills aren't put to better use by dropping the pundant rhetoric and stick to the full set of facts that I'm sure you could be aware of if only you weren't just having so much fun in the debate rather than the deserved outcome.. LOL

based on the entire way you frame your questions/statements, you've already made up your mind and simply  see the world and "facts" differently from me.  But since I won't simply let your statement stand, here goes:
1) There is nothing about the taxes discussed as part of a deficit deal that has anything to do with jobs.  Even a higher rate for individuals with incomes above $250K can have regs crafted so the taxes don't actually hit small businesses, which are the real job creators in this country.  When Clinton raised the top rate, lots of jobs continued to be created, so the idea that an increase would hit job creation is a complete canard.
2) Obama has turned this country socialist?  What a laugh.  How exactly has he done that?  And don't say it's with the health care bill, which didn't even create a single-payer mandate.  To me, the problem with Obama is that he's a classic, middle-of-the-road compromiser.  The people on the left hate him just as much as the people on the right.  That should tell you something.  You need to look up the definition of socialism, 'cause Obama ain't it.
3) My personal opinion (not provable, but no more so than any of your opinions) is Obama did a lot of good by passing even flawed health care legislation.  I also believe that, without the stimulus package, we'd be in even worse shape eonomically.  As for his failures (not closing Gitmo, etc.) most of them are the result of implacable opposition from Republicans and weak-kneed support from Democrats.  No President can just snap his fingers and say "make it so."
4)  Obama lies?  Bullshit.  Give me an actual example, that's not something like "he promised to close Gitmo and didn't," which is a complete distortion.  The real master of the Big Lie was Dubya.  Remember the one about WMDs that he used to bamboozle the country into war?  That was a real trillion dollar, deficit-fueling lie that also, btw, has killed about 5,000 US soldiers, wounded tens of thousands more and killed more than 100,000 Iraqis.  
5) It's spelled "pundit."
6) Do I think I've convinced you?  Not at all.  If you respond I expect it will be with "facts" I consider to be bogus distortions, so you needn't bother.

It's possible you and I may never agree, and that's ok.  The issue I have with your arguments are pretty simple.  Yes, it is possible to restrict tax increases to "individuals" and thus avoid small business implications and therefore job impacts.  But, that's not what Obama or the dems have said.  Obviously, if they had, the revenue issue might be more palatable, but they didn't say that, and thus please don't attempt to distort the facts of their position as if they are the good ole boys.  As to lies, of course every elected official has told lies or distortions, but Obama has done so more than anyone I can recall.  His most recent "distortion" shows up in his last two lectures regarding what went wrong with the agreement that Bainer walked out on.  Never once did he point out that it was Obama's insistence that revenue be increased an additional 400 billion by tax increases "after" the deal was reached.  He's a simple conman, but his oratory skills help him appear credible and pity on those who simply listen to his words without actually doing some fact checking... those are the ones who will find themselves shocked when the "real" truth comes out.  Much like the real facts that have appeared for the healthcare legislation.  Please also realize that my distrust for Obama has nothing to do with what Bush did.  Frankly, Bush is history and not relevant in the discussions of today.  And yes, the two wars certainly don't help the deficit, but it was nearly the entire Congress that approved those actions and they reached those approvals by seeing the same intel that Bush saw.  So we were duped by dumb ass government officials in the intel business.... what else is new.

there's little I agree with in it.  You are correct that I have not heard any Dem say a tax increase on the top bracket could be done without hitting job growth.  But the Republicans also have said "No way, No how" on this.
As to lies, while I'd have to replay Boehner's speach last night, it seemed to me it was riddled with lies and distortions of Obama's position.  And, yes, both parties do that.  As to the Bush ref. re lies, it was you who said Obama was a liar and Bush was the most recent other President.  Who else would I compare him  to?
As to Dems approving the Iraq war, many did.  But most of them did so because they were given slanted "facts" and outright lies cooked up under orders from Cheney.  Hell, even I believed Saddam had WMDs at that point.  What does that make me guilty of?  Being successfully lied to.  Not much for the concocter of those lies to hang his hat on.

Yep, I agree we have all been lied to by every damn one of them...  LOL

Here's my favorite one...he was born in 1961 because his parents got together and marched in 1963...

Sorry...I forgot my link...

and i guess it was '65...not '63...

The Complainer in Chief is clueless...

You can debate back and forth on whatever you want... blame this, blame that... whatever..... but it's more then obvious that America's Big Mistake really does not have a clue / plan of what to do.

he's the prez...the campaign is over. he's to lead, not follow. he's to put the country first and stop being the campaigner in chief....hell vote for anyone but the o...can't be any worse off.